Feed Pets Raw Food: Dec 12, 2007

Wednesday, December 12, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12370

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Addendum: This Week's Meat Sales
From: Susan Fortune

2a. Re: feeding kidney....help!
From: Morledzep@aol.com
2b. Re: feeding kidney....help!
From: Lauren Funaiole

3a. 2nd type of 'Agression"
From: Tracy Meal
3b. Re: 2nd type of 'Agression"
From: Chia
3c. Re: 2nd type of 'Agression"
From: Virginia Snider
3d. Re: 2nd type of 'Agression"
From: Michelle Morgan

4a. beef ribs
From: tiffany.contempopainting
4b. Re: beef ribs
From: Giselle
4c. Re: beef ribs
From: woofwoofgrrl
4d. Re: beef ribs
From: Lauren Funaiole
4e. Re: beef ribs
From: Yasuko herron

5a. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: Virginia Snider
5b. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: Mary Tinder
5c. Was: do you feed once or twice a day? Now: to gain weight
From: Giselle
5d. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: Scott Baker

6a. Re: Pork Kidney, Turkey Giblets, etc.
From: Shelly
6b. Re: Pork Kidney, Turkey Giblets, etc.
From: Yasuko herron
6c. Re: Pork Kidney, Turkey Giblets, etc.
From: Erika

7a. Re: Grinders
From: Candee Brey

8. I have Cresteds too!
From: Michelle R

9a. Re: Once or twice a day..feeding
From: Sai Simonson
9b. Re: Once or twice a day..feeding
From: Scott Baker

10. Raw diet influencing behavior
From: Sai Simonson

11a. Re: An abundance of gas
From: costrowski75

Messages
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1. Addendum: This Week's Meat Sales
Posted by: "Susan Fortune" desperatelyseekingsusan@cox.net cactususan
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:04 pm ((PST))

Stater's: also has whole Foster Farms Chicken; $89. per #!

Stater's: Foster Farms Chicken half-breasts with ribs; $.99 per #.
Foster Farms Chicken leg quarters; $.89 per #.
Pork butt roast $.99 per #.
Pork shoulder roast, picnic style $.99 per #.

Ad prices good Wednesday, December 12 through Tuesday December 18.

Albertson's: nothing of interest

Ralph's: nothing of interest

Von's: nothing of interest

Susan
Southern California

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Messages in this topic (1)
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2a. Re: feeding kidney....help!
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:04 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 12/12/2007 2:30:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
patti.h310@yahoo.com writes:

We're on all the basics...pork,
beef, chicken, lamb, and liver (which is almost impossible to get him
to eat unless it's hidden). How much kidney? How often? Is it a
muscle or organ?

Patti,

it's an organ.. my dogs have never had any problem with new food or new
organs for that matter. Except one time i gave my 8 month old akita a whole kidney
and it was a case of too much too soon.

for smaller dogs i would cut it in quarters and add to a regular meal, or for
larger dogs i would cut it in half and give with a regular meal.

Catherine R.

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

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Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: feeding kidney....help!
Posted by: "Lauren Funaiole" LFUNAIOL@SIMIVALLEY.ORG lfunaiol
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:04 pm ((PST))

Hi Patti,

Kidneys are organs and should be part of the approximate 10% of the overall diet. That's approximate, so don't overthink this. However, if he's never had kidney before, you might want to cut it into 3 or 4 pieces and introduce it gradually into his diet. Organs can cause diarrhea in large amounts, especially if the dog is unfamiliar with them. Once he's up to speed, you could probably give him a kidney a week or so.

Lauren Funaiole

>>> "patti.h310" <patti.h310@yahoo.com> 12/12/2007 12:42 PM >>>

We've been raw now for several months and I finally found beef
kidney......now what!!?? Finnigan is 50lbs and pretty active so he
does well with 1.5lbs of food per day. We're on all the basics...pork,
beef, chicken, lamb, and liver (which is almost impossible to get him
to eat unless it's hidden). How much kidney? How often? Is it a
muscle or organ?

Thanks,
Patti

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Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. 2nd type of 'Agression"
Posted by: "Tracy Meal" hiddenpoetinme1@yahoo.com hiddenpoetinme1
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:36 pm ((PST))

HI, miz_debi

>> Has anyone else heard this. I don't believe its true, but what's the
concensus here.

I have a couple rotties and people ask me all the time when they find out I am feeding raw if my dogs are more aggressive. "Absolutely not", I tell them. They are sweet as ever and well fed to boot.

Tracy

____________________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: 2nd type of 'Agression"
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:47 pm ((PST))

I have a couple rotties and people ask me all the time when they find out
I am feeding raw if my dogs are more aggressive. "Absolutely not", I tell
them. They are sweet as ever and well fed to boot.
#### dogs fed raw, within a few months usually, become more 'normal' as
it were.

SO, if they were hyper, they may calm down, if they were super sedentary,
they may become more energetic. Due to being fed appropriately, perhaps
finally completely satisfied, they function as a healthy, robust dog should.

The chemicals, sugars and inappropriate additives in commercial food would
certainly be more harmful to a dog then fresh, natural food high in water
content. As usual, people's ignorance from years of petfood propaganda and
media saturation would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.

Chia & Ricco

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Messages in this topic (6)
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3c. Re: 2nd type of 'Agression"
Posted by: "Virginia Snider" vsnider@cogeco.ca rawbglass
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:34 pm ((PST))

>> Has anyone else heard this. I don't believe its true, but what's the
concensus here.

Hi,

I hear it all the time.me and my vicious Pug :-)

Virginia

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Messages in this topic (6)
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3d. Re: 2nd type of 'Agression"
Posted by: "Michelle Morgan" enzo@whereismichelle.com enzoinub
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:43 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Debi C" <dcole6@...> wrote:
>People are always telling me that feeding raw will make a dog
> aggressive.>

They are absolutely right. My Caucasian Ovcharkas (all raw fed for the
past 7 years) are much more aggressive than other people's... When
Citibank stock plummeted, Enzo, our oldest male, kept pushing me to buy
more, more, more. Driving Barynya to the vet is a nightmare... she
keeps rolling down the window and shouting "Outta Da Way Fathead!!" -
at traffic cops. Tsitsilia pushed Ebbie and Lucky off her favorite spot
on the porch the other day and told them if they didn't like it, they
could go sit on a de-matting comb. Even our baby Dima, who pretends to
be a loving, snuggly, 170 lbs of fluff, cannot be trusted with
children. Every time the neighborhood kids get a new ball, she pops it
with her teeth just to watch them cry.

Anyways, that's what I tell people when they ask me if feeding a dog
properly will make it into a bloodthirsty maniac :-)

Michelle

Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. beef ribs
Posted by: "tiffany.contempopainting" tiffcurran@gmail.com tiffany.contempopainting
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:36 pm ((PST))

Hi everyone. I have another question that I need answered by the pros.a local store has beef ribs on sale for .69 lb. That is really good for my area. I want to stock up but I am new to this so I am not sure if the bones are to hard. If I did feed it I would add some boneless meat to it. Does that sound good or should I stay away from them. Thanks in advance.
Tiffany

Messages in this topic (17)
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4b. Re: beef ribs
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:52 pm ((PST))

Hi, Tiffany!
I wouldn't classify them as edible bone. They are too dense
and bony and fatty to feed as a meal. But, you could feed them with added
meatymeat.

I do buy them, but use them sparingly as a "busy" placeholder for the day or
two after a Big Food or Gorge meal. I generally feed them in slabs of 3-4
together. They do a great job of giving my girl the feeling that she's
having a meal, plus she gets 'flossing' time.

Once the bones are bare, out they go, into the trash!

You might also want to look out for the smaller chunks of bone at the ends.
If my Bea swallows them, she horks them up hours later, totally undigested.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 12, 2007 6:34 PM, tiffany.contempopainting <tiffcurran@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi everyone. I have another question that I need answered by the pros. A
> local store has beef ribs on sale for .69 lb. That is really good for my
> area. I want to stock up but I am new to this so I am not sure if the bones
> are too hard. If I did feed it I would add some boneless meat to it. Does
> that sound good or should I stay away from them? Thanks in advance.
> Tiffany
>
>

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Messages in this topic (17)
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4c. Re: beef ribs
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:55 pm ((PST))

My dogs LOVE beef ribs! They are engaging for them to eat and I leave a
couple for the puppy to gnaw on after the meat is all gone. As long as
you don't mind picking up the bones when the dogs have decided they are
no longer worthwhile, they're great!

Christine

tiffany.contempopainting wrote:
>
>
> Hi everyone. I have another question that I need answered by the pros.a
> local store has beef ribs on sale for .69 lb. That is really good for my
> area. I want to stock up but I am new to this so I am not sure if the
> bones are to hard. If I did feed it I would add some boneless meat to
> it. Does that sound good or should I stay away from them. Thanks in advance.
> Tiffany
>
>

Messages in this topic (17)
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4d. Re: beef ribs
Posted by: "Lauren Funaiole" LFUNAIOL@SIMIVALLEY.ORG lfunaiol
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:55 pm ((PST))

Hi Tiffany,

Beef ribs are too hard for most dogs to eat, so don't count on them as part of the edible bone portion of your dog's diet. That IS a good price for them. I would go ahead and buy some. Feed them in big intact slabs of ribs and don't count the bone as part of their portion. In other words, feed a bigger piece than you would of something that is completely edible. If your dog normally eats 1 pound of food, give him 2 pounds of beef ribs. When he's done tearing the ribs apart and has eaten all of the meat off the bones, take them away from him.

Lauren Funaiole

>>> "tiffany.contempopainting" <tiffcurran@gmail.com> 12/12/2007 3:34 PM >>>

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Messages in this topic (17)
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4e. Re: beef ribs
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:38 pm ((PST))

>Once the bones are bare, out they go, into the trash

Really?? Palette might want it to send here so that she can eat!!

She very rarely leave some Beef rib bone but,most of the time,she crunch down well and eat it all.... Her jaw power is extraordinare???

She eats fine Buffalo ribs,Elk ribs...It takes time but she eats all most of time.If she leaves,maybe pinky finger sized shredded ones one or two pieces.that is about it.

She usually leave almost all bone for oxtail though..It seems little hard for her. She nibble some but sheleaves most after some tackling and she gives up.

If I saw too much glob of white fat in it,I tend to take it off some.

talking of ribs,she had Elk ribs and,she is tired from it,andnapping upstairs alone...

She was holding the bones with paws and stripping the silver skin-like with front teeth,and it was cute.

After the tiring meal,she did not leave the shower curtain mat but laied on side. So,I was rubbing her on the matt...She would sleep deep tonight.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (17)
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5a. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "Virginia Snider" vsnider@cogeco.ca rawbglass
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:55 pm ((PST))

Hi,

I figured out how much he gets a day and used to split it up into 2
meals at first. He always seemed hungry but I think it was the taste and
aroma of the real food. Then there were days he didn't eat at all and then
out of the blue he'd trot over to his dish, wanting to be fed. Over time he
started showing no interest in the morning so now it's only at dinner. I
figured he knew better than me when he wanted to eat so I let him self
adjust :-)

Virginia

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Messages in this topic (23)
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5b. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "Mary Tinder" mtinder@tinderco.com mmmaryt
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:12 pm ((PST))

What about when a dog needs to gain weight. Feed more often or just
more at the one feeding?
Mary T
> So my question is, do most feed their adult dogs one or two times a
day ..............
>
>
>>
> even on kibble no adult dog needs to be fed more than once a day.

Messages in this topic (23)
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5c. Was: do you feed once or twice a day? Now: to gain weight
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:28 pm ((PST))

Hi, Mary!
The recommendation is to feed more meals per day, with more
meatymeat added and fattier meats, to bowel tolerance.

If you feed more at a meal, it often can trigger cannon butt, leading
to dehydration, not to weight gain.

Also, try to aim for a small, but steady weight gain, not to pack on
as much weight as possible in a short time.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Tinder" <mtinder@...> wrote:
>
> What about when a dog needs to gain weight? Feed more often or just
> more at the one feeding?
> Mary T

Messages in this topic (23)
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5d. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:35 pm ((PST))

Feed more overall.

On Dec 12, 2007 8:58 PM, Mary Tinder <mtinder@tinderco.com> wrote:

> What about when a dog needs to gain weight. Feed more often or just
> more at the one feeding?
> Mary T
> .
>
>
>

--
Scott

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Messages in this topic (23)
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6a. Re: Pork Kidney, Turkey Giblets, etc.
Posted by: "Shelly" StuartLittle@comcast.net stuartjeanlittle
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:12 pm ((PST))

I think it's fine to feed organs from the same animal most the time, I feed
mostly beef (because that's what's readily accessible for me, and Lady
doesn't like chicken), but heart is not an organ for feeding purposes, it's a
muscle.

Shelly

On Wednesday 12 December 2007 15:24, redangelbordeaux wrote:

Like feeding Beef Heart, Pork Kidney and Turkey liver and then rotate
species organ type? Or is an organ just and organ and could feed all
organs from same animal all the time?

Thanks a bunch!

Erika

Messages in this topic (4)
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6b. Re: Pork Kidney, Turkey Giblets, etc.
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:09 pm ((PST))

> could feed all organs from same animal all the time?

It is ok to feed organ not same with meat kind.It does not matter. Point is,if the dog has no issue with poo-wise and digest very well those organs,you can feed any organs anytime you want.It is just better to stick with 10% guideline.

Heart is very nutritious item but it is not organ and it is part of 80% guideline;you can think as same category to normal meat.

for example,here is my dog menu for one day

Beef cheek meat,Turkey gizzard,Tripe and lamb neck with added lamb meat

Her neal is mixed.That is ok.

I know some people feed tripe as tripe only meat,but I am using as side dish-like.

Sometimes,I feed from same kind of meat;I am roating between poultry giblet thing and liver kidney from 4 legged animals within week,occasionary,it is fed with same kind meat like ...one day of my dog meal..

Beef Heart,Beef liver and kidney,Egg,Turkey.

Both fine. As long as dog can torelate liver you feed,you can mix and match however you like.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (4)
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6c. Re: Pork Kidney, Turkey Giblets, etc.
Posted by: "Erika" Erika@redangelbordeaux.com redangelbordeaux
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:38 pm ((PST))

Thanks everyone. I guess I should have said "internal bits" instead of organs, lol. I understand that heart is considered a muscle meat as is gizzard, Beef heart is my main meaty meat around here. Very dense and chewie a great workout which is building there massive head size along with being good for them ;)

I fed everyone a quarter of a kidney so we shal see how it all comes out, lol.

Erika

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Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Re: Grinders
Posted by: "Candee Brey" candee@netnet.net candeeloubrey
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:34 pm ((PST))

This web site carries very nice reconditioned grinders.

http://www.naturmix.com/pages/products/grinders.html

Candee
On Dec 12, 2007, at 6:55 AM, Fay wrote:

> I have recently adopted a dog who has only a few teeth left. Is
> there a
> recommended grinder that will handle chicken bones,etc?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Fay
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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8. I have Cresteds too!
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:35 pm ((PST))

I have tons of cresteds..email me anytime. I will help in whatever way I can.
As for bones, my kids devour them...I have one who is a gulper, but she is also the one I have with no teeth, so I just pop a whole chicken in the grinder and she gets her bone content that way, without trying to swallow a bone whole..she is surprisingly able to pull meat off a large bone quite well, she just cant eat the actual bone. My kids have had duck, chicken, venison, turkey, eggs and love pork kidneys and hearts. I only have 2 who refuse to eat liver, they dont care what I do to it or with it...flat out will NOT eat it.
Tonites menu contains half chicken and half duck.....they LOVE both. :-)
As for having my favorite kids on the planet.....Where are you? Do you show? do I know you? :-) Inquiring minds, ya know!

Hope this helps and do email me on or offlist anytime. :-)

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. Re: Once or twice a day..feeding
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:35 pm ((PST))

Moat interesting.
Now when is the one feeding best....I am guessing morning as something
about not digesting at night, or is that just for growing puppies??

Sai
==========================

### they quickly get over the expected feeding time when you eliminate
it. It's just habit and they adjust fast!

My dog will eat a huge meal one day, and sometimes not eat for the next
day or two, essentially eating 3-5 times per week depending on what the
meals are. Kind of like nature, right?.. They stretch those stomach walls
as nature designed... then empty them completely. VERY healthy....every dog
is different however, and dogs fed raw for a longer period of time almost
self regulate this way as they become content with proper nutrition for the
first time in their lives.

C hia & Ricco

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: Once or twice a day..feeding
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:55 pm ((PST))

Change it up. Keep them guessing. Sometimes i feed at noon, sometimes at
supper, sometimes later. sometimes early. No set time.

On Dec 12, 2007 9:31 PM, Sai Simonson <saiczarina@comcast.net> wrote:

> Moat interesting.
> Now when is the one feeding best....I am guessing morning as something
> about not digesting at night, or is that just for growing puppies??
>
> Sai
> ==========================
> .
>
>
>

--
Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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10. Raw diet influencing behavior
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:08 pm ((PST))

The all raw diet has turned my gentle,leaning 110 lb recently neutered
Borzoi into a snarling protector. This morning on the walk a very large
(about 100 lb male) came tearing out to the street snapping and barking
at my Zoi girl and me. Lexi roared into action. I have only heard him
bark a couple times in his nine years, but he barked, snarled, and then
lunged to the end of my sweetie's leash with many teeth showing. Being a
strong male,Hank held on to Lexi and the intruder was snagged by his
owner. Meanwhile, the whole incident stopped the flow of traffic on what
we call the Southgate Freeway....a very narrow neighborhood street that
is the shortcut to the High School at the end of the block.

Sai
==============

Well of course it's the raw diet, and that is so not off topic:)
Jeni

I love it when they have fun, it makes it all worth it.
--

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Re: An abundance of gas
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:52 pm ((PST))

"Susanne MacLeod" <suzmacleod@...> wrote:
My gut was telling me it was air intake/ or gas, and
> he let out a couple of whopping burps after. Anyone ahve any
thoughts
> on this? Scared the bejeezus out of me though.
*****
You seem to have handled it well enough. Brava! No reason to believe
he didn't have gas--whopping burps is a good clue. My dogs have always
had success with deer necks, but I can see how all the necessary
wrestling can result in swallowed air.

He might also have been nauseous, from the novelty, the amount,
disgestive discomfort, aka indigestion?

Let us know how he gets on, okay? And don't write off deer necks, at
least not at this point. They really are great eats.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12369

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Hello and Questions
From: Firestone, Adam C.
1b. Re: Hello and Questions
From: Lauren Funaiole
1c. Re: Hello and Questions
From: Chia
1d. Re: Hello and Questions
From: Sandee Lee
1e. Re: Hello and Questions
From: carnesbill

2a. Re: Undigested chicken bones
From: T Smith

3a. Thawed out deer bones on porch
From: Susanne MacLeod
3b. Re: Thawed out deer bones on porch
From: costrowski75
3c. Re: Thawed out deer bones on porch
From: Susanne MacLeod

4. An abundance of gas
From: Susanne MacLeod

5a. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: adkjoe17
5b. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: Scott Baker
5c. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: Tina Berry
5d. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: adkjoe17
5e. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: Tina Berry
5f. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: carnesbill
5g. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: johnsonkp200
5h. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: Tina Berry
5i. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: Morledzep@aol.com
5j. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: costrowski75
5k. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: Chia

6. Pork Kidney, Turkey Giblets, etc.
From: redangelbordeaux

7. DDB on RAW update :)
From: redangelbordeaux

8a. feeding kidney....help!
From: patti.h310
8b. Re: feeding kidney....help!
From: Giselle

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Hello and Questions
Posted by: "Firestone, Adam C." Adam.C.Firestone@saic.com spitzgeschoss
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:37 am ((PST))

New member here - hopefully much to learn!

Quick question: Can anyone suggest books specifically on a)
nutritionally balanced home made diets in general for dogs and b)
nutritionally balanced raw diets for dogs?

Thank you!!!

Adam

"The easy way is always mined."
(The hard way leads into a fire sack.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Hello and Questions
Posted by: "Lauren Funaiole" LFUNAIOL@SIMIVALLEY.ORG lfunaiol
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:55 am ((PST))

Hi Adam,

The only book that I recommend is Tom Lonsdale's book, Work Wonders. It's a great guide to raw feeding. You can get it from www.rawmeatybones.com

Lauren F.

>>> "Firestone, Adam C." <Adam.C.Firestone@saic.com> 12/12/2007 9:27 AM >>>

New member here - hopefully much to learn!

Quick question: Can anyone suggest books specifically on a)
nutritionally balanced home made diets in general for dogs and b)
nutritionally balanced raw diets for dogs?

Thank you!!!

Adam

"The easy way is always mined."
(The hard way leads into a fire sack.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Hello and Questions
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:03 am ((PST))

New member here - hopefully much to learn!

Quick question: Can anyone suggest books specifically on a)
nutritionally balanced home made diets in general for dogs and b)
nutritionally balanced raw diets for dogs?

###read much of the archives....go to the links below...it is truly ALL
you need. For specific questions, ask us anything you wish!

http://www.rawfeddogs.net

(click on recipes...) ;-))

The Myth Pages:

http://www.rawfed.com

(any question or answer you could ever need or
reply to)

TAV site: (if you are going to question what goes into your dog's body
nutritionally, research the harms of vaccines on below link as well.
Important to do so!

http://www.truthaboutvaccines.org

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Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: Hello and Questions
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:25 am ((PST))

Adam,

You don't really need a book...just look at nature and feed accordingly.
The normal diet of a carnivore consists of lots of meat, a little edible
bone and the all important organs. It's just that simple. A prey model
diet is nutritionally balanced just as it comes! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Firestone, Adam C." <Adam.C.Firestone@saic.com>
>
> Quick question: Can anyone suggest books specifically on a)
> nutritionally balanced home made diets in general for dogs and b)
> nutritionally balanced raw diets for dogs?

Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________

1e. Re: Hello and Questions
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:53 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Firestone, Adam C."
<Adam.C.Firestone@...> wrote:

> Quick question: Can anyone suggest books specifically on a)
> nutritionally balanced home made diets in general for dogs and b)
> nutritionally balanced raw diets for dogs?

Work Wonders by Tom Lonsdale is the absolute best book by far to
give you the information you are looking for. You need to remember
one thing. "Nutirionally Balanced" is a human concept of arbitrary
numbers based on very little actual science. It means very little
for dogs or humans. NO one ... and I mean no one can tell you
exactly the amounts of what nutirients you or your dog need for
optimum diet. It is all theory and no fact. Luckily both the human
and canine body adjust for variences in diet.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (21)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Undigested chicken bones
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:43 am ((PST))

Yes, yes, must agree, very true. I saw the same thing & does happen now &
then. It took only a few weeks to clear up in mine. It was expained to me
as the stomach acids needing time to become normal after crap in a bag has
been fed for so long.
I'm still new: only a raw feeder a few months now so I know others will
chime in with more specifics for you.
Take Care,
Trina

--
Chip (senior cancer deaf Dalmatian)
Casper (deaf Great Dane)
Whisper (deaf & epileptic Great Dane)
Louie (hearing Great Dane)
Joey (senior deaf & blind Lhasa Apso)
Amy (senior disabled Lhasa Apso)
Cassandra (disabled Lhasa Apso)
Mr Paris (Lhasa Apso)
Chloe (16+ yr old deaf & blind Spaniel mix)
~ Waiting to be filled ~
VISIT ALL OUR KIDS AT: http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f232/coldbeach/

On Dec 12, 2007 5:38 AM, Chia <chia.m@shaw.ca> wrote:

> #### not to worry this is totally normal and will eventually stop after
> amonth or two. However, sometimes when new sources are introduced you maysee
> this on occasion. I used to semi-regularly notice this is in my boy inthe
> beginning but it has been years since then. I know they look scarythough!
>
> Those intestinal walls are TOUGH... a little bone shard nested in poop
> will do no harm.
>
> Chia & Ricco
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Thawed out deer bones on porch
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:43 am ((PST))

Hi gang.....it's deer season here, so I have recently purchased a
wackload of deer meat, some great RMB, a 10l pail of green tripe, and
I'm flying to my folks place on Fri to get 10 wild rabbits. I only
have 2 Frenchies...but couldn't pass up the deals. I only have a
5cubic ft freezer. My question is I have the tripe on my front porch
and the bag of deer bones (RMB) on my front porch in a cooler. The
temp here is hovering around 1-3 degrees Celcius - 0 being the frezing
mark. At night it drops to -4 or so. I see the bones kinda thaw out
during the day. I was planning on leaving them out there all winter.
How bad is it to let them thaw every day and then freeze up at night?
Suz Kate and Joey

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Thawed out deer bones on porch
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:05 am ((PST))

"Susanne MacLeod" <suzmacleod@...> wrote:
>> How bad is it to let them thaw every day and then freeze up at night?
*****
I don't think it's bad but I also don't think you're going to see
significant thawing until what--March? If you keep the loot as heaped
together as you can, that will reduce the daily thaw. If you see a
warming trend coming, you could add a blankie or two to the pile.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: Thawed out deer bones on porch
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:53 am ((PST))

Thanks Chris....I figured as much....but I just wanted to make
sure....the tripe in in a pail, so thats all good. I tired to squeeze
as many deer bones in my freezer as I could, but there's a pile
left....I went to pick it up and there was runny deer blood...so it was
thawing, but tonight it should freeze back up again....the meat won't
go bad will it?
Suz

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4. An abundance of gas
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:55 am ((PST))

Last night Joey, my 4 year old Frenchie went to town on a gorgeous deer
neck....anyhow, after he had enough, he kinda had some issues...it was
like he was gulping for air, or was trying to swallow. He licked my
hand a tonne. I massaged his throat, and saw there was nothing lodged,
and gave him some Calm and Clear ABFE, to calm him. After about 15
min, it stopped. My gut was telling me it was air intake/ or gas, and
he let out a couple of whopping burps after. Anyone ahve any thoughts
on this? Scared the bejeezus out of me though.
Suz Kate and Joey

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "adkjoe17" j2dope17@yahoo.com adkjoe17
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:38 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Baker" <scottsbaker@...>
wrote:
>
> Yup, I feed once a day, for this reason alone. To be able to feed
larger
> more complicated meals.

Let me ask this then...what about puppies? say 12 weeks to 6 months.
Don't they need more than 1 or 2 meals a day? what would be the best
way to split it up? Should I offer a huge portion let her work at it
a bit then take it away or should I just give her a couple ounces here
and there?

Joe

Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________

5b. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:45 am ((PST))

Id feed the large portion and let them eat away at it a few times a day.

On Dec 12, 2007 2:36 PM, adkjoe17 <j2dope17@yahoo.com> wrote:

> -Let me ask this then...what about puppies? say 12 weeks to 6 months.
> Don't they need more than 1 or 2 meals a day? what would be the best
>

> way to split it up? Should I offer a huge portion let her work at it
> a bit then take it away or should I just give her a couple ounces here
> and there?
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>

--
Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________

5c. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:45 am ((PST))

"12 weeks to 6 months. "

12 wks to 6 months I feed 3 x daily; 6-12 months 2 x daily; then over 12 is
once per day.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________

5d. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "adkjoe17" j2dope17@yahoo.com adkjoe17
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:03 am ((PST))

Tina Berry wrote:

> "12 weeks to 6 months. "
>
> 12 wks to 6 months I feed 3 x daily; 6-12 months 2 x daily; then
over 12 is
> once per day.

So like Scott says, a large portion, let her chew away for a bit on
whatever part she chooses and then take it away and give it back to
her later?

What do you think about a whole chicken to a 15-20 lb puppy let her
eat away at it untill I feel she had enough for one sitting then
give it back to her a couple times a day instead of cutting it up
into portions, is there anything wrong with that? cutting up a whole
chicken into portions can be a pain but I have no problem doing it
if it would be better.

Joe

Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________

5e. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:20 am ((PST))

"What do you think about a whole chicken to a 15-20 lb puppy let her eat
away at it untill I feel she had enough for one sitting then give it back to
her a couple times a day instead of cutting it up into portions"

I think that would be fine too.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________

5f. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:53 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "johnsonkp200" <sunfiretervs@...>
wrote:
>
I feed twice a day and have for the 5+ years I've been feeding raw.
My dogs never indicated to me that they prefer large complicated meals
every once in a while over regular smaller simpler meals. They are
just as happy and healthy as the gorge/fast fed dogs. They don't bile
vomit or show any problem if a meal is a few hours late. Dogs prefer
knowing what to expect and when to expect it. They are creatures of
habit. It helps them emotionally to get along in an alien
civilization.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________

5g. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "johnsonkp200" sunfiretervs@comcast.net johnsonkp200
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:53 am ((PST))

Thanks for all the great replies. Feeding once a day (or less) makes
sense to me and I'm going to switch him to that. It is true, cutting
his portion in halves left him with not much to sink his teeth into. :))

Karen

Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________

5h. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:30 pm ((PST))

"They are just as happy and healthy as the gorge/fast fed dogs. They don't
bile vomit or show any problem if a meal is a few hours late. Dogs prefer
knowing what to expect and when to expect it. They are creatures of
habit."

I think I'm the creature of habit, I like feeding the same amount, once a
day, and approximately the same size portions. Every once in awhile they'll
get too large of a dinner and the next day they get 8oz of something to curb
their appetite with their daily raw egg and fish oil. I think if a dog is
used to gorging/fasting they are just as happy as if they are eating daily
and vice versa. It's whatever fits our schedule. I do vary in feeding
times tho since Ruger did the bile vomit thing when dinner was too late one
time, so now I vary the feeding times and that's never happened again.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________

5i. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:30 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 12/12/2007 7:29:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,
sunfiretervs@comcast.net writes:

So my question is, do most feed their adult dogs one or two times a day
on raw diet? I could not figure out what to type in the search box to
find this.

Karen,

even on kibble no adult dog needs to be fed more than once a day. Some folks
feed twice or more a day because they feel the dog needs to eat as often as
they do. but this is NOT the case. Dogs are wolves in domesticated clothes,
and wolves do NOT eat even every day, they eat when they hunt and kill
something and then they gorge themselves for as long as the food lasts. Sometimes
they go more than a week without eating.

Raw meat is almost completely digested, the dogs use almost everything, and
there is far less waste than what there was on kibble. Dogs are hungrier on
kibble because they are never satisfied, their bodies are literally starving for
nutriets that kibble never provides. They eat and they get fat because of
the calories and carbs but their bodies never recieve the nutrients necessary
for their bodies to realize that they are satisfied.

And even after you switch this will continue for awhile.. a lot of what dogs
do is habit and learned behaviour. Even though their bodies are now getting
the proper nutrients, they are used to eating or at least begging for food more
often than they need it. My dogs took about 8 months before they started
not being interested in everything they saw and begging all the time. (of
course hubbies that give dogs stuff off their plate everytime he eats doesn't help).

Catherine R.

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________

5j. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:51 pm ((PST))

"adkjoe17" <j2dope17@...> wrote:
what about puppies? say 12 weeks to 6 months.
> Don't they need more than 1 or 2 meals a day?
*****
I feed healthy adults every other day, generally. I feed oldsters and
youngsters once a day or more frequently as age and health issues
dictate.

I am most satisfied with results when I feed pups four times a day til
three months, then three times a day til six months, then twice a day
til a year or close to it, at which time I move to one square a day.
This is all very plus or minus of course!

I am not particularly creative when it comes to feeding pups.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________

5k. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:55 pm ((PST))

even on kibble no adult dog needs to be fed more than once a day. Some
folks
feed twice or more a day because they feel the dog needs to eat as often
as
they do. but this is NOT the case. Dogs are wolves in domesticated
clothes,
and wolves do NOT eat even every day, they eat when they hunt and kill
something and then they gorge themselves for as long as the food lasts.
Sometimes
they go more than a week without eating.

#### Catherine,

totally with you on this! Ricco eats ONLY when he is hungry. People are
often amazed that he NEVER begs for food or shows any interest in crumbs
etc...that behaviour just isn't there. I see so many dogs out in the world
so very overweight, sniffing and begging for a scrap of someone's
snack..makes me feel SO sorry for what they are routinely fed.

I also realize how a wolf's stomach is meant to function and letting it
completely shrink like an accordion to nothing between meals is VERY
appropriate and keeps so many digestive issues at bay. Once again, if you
follow nature, the outcome is almost always desirable!

I would also think dogs that happily eat twice a day that have been raw
fed for years are perhaps not always enjoying a very large meal at night,
therefore not utilizing the stretch/expand nature of the stomach ... but,
since I have a dog that truly doesn't care about food much except to
survive, I could be off on that behaviour aspect of other dogs. I just
truly believe that feeding a dog as close to how it would eat in nature is
preferable.

Chia & Ricco

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Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6. Pork Kidney, Turkey Giblets, etc.
Posted by: "redangelbordeaux" Erika@redangelbordeaux.com redangelbordeaux
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:30 pm ((PST))

Picked up another big-ole batch of meat stuffs yesterday!
This time I got about 40# of pork kidney for some organ variety.
I have to say that so far it's a love/hate wtih the kidney. Even though
it was in one large lump all frozen together it was by far the easiest
item to seperate out and bag up last night. On the other hand, it
really made my whole bathroom smell like Pig Pee, ick!
I'll search Archives as well, but, wondering what goodies are in Kidney
and if there is a possibility to overdoo it in feeding? Since I have to
purchase organs in such large quantity I am getting one type each trip
untill I have a good variety on hand so for now it's pork kidney and
turkey liver. Is it a good idea to get species variety in the organs.
Like feeding Beef Heart, Pork Kidney and Turkey liver and then rotate
species organ type? Or is an organ just and organ and could feed all
organs from same animal all the time? Any suggestions on the best
organ to add next on the menue? I want to get the most important ones
in there diet first :)

Also got 40# of turkey Gibblet baggies, now that was fun. I know, why
would I seperate them out? Simple answer, OCD, haha! Really though the
liver content was outrageous! I think I have about a 6 month supply of
turkey liver for feeding. Now I aslo have nice little turkey hearts
that will make perfect treats to grab out of the fridge durring the
day. Thinking about either baking them or attempting to dehydrate and
use as training treats or bait at shows. Since the Gizzards are just
huge I can throw them in when I need some more meat in a meal.

Thanks a bunch!

Erika

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7. DDB on RAW update :)
Posted by: "redangelbordeaux" Erika@redangelbordeaux.com redangelbordeaux
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:30 pm ((PST))

Thanks for all the responses to my Bordeaux feeding inquiry!
I'll definatley save all of your addresses so that we can chat some
when I get a bit more time.

All the "kids" are doing great other than the stinkey burps and other
exhaust, lol. We have a dog show this weekend, first one since visible
physical changes since the diet change and I am so excited to see how
they do! It will be interesting to see if anyone who knows my dogs sees
a change and comments on them. Fingers crossed for us and that the rain
will go away for just this weekend! It's been super soggy and not to
much fun trying to feed everyone and keep them dry, but at least there
are no flys to deal with in this whether ;)

Erika and the Bordeaux Children

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. feeding kidney....help!
Posted by: "patti.h310" patti.h310@yahoo.com patti.h310
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:30 pm ((PST))

Thanks,
Patti

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: feeding kidney....help!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:02 pm ((PST))

Hi, Patti!
Kidney is a squidgey ick organ, and *any* organ ('cept for
heart, tongue and gizzards) other than liver is part of the 5-7% "other"
category.
80% meatymeat
10% edible bone
10% organ - 3-5% liver and 5-7% "other"

You feed it however you want, although I don't recommend a complete meal of
it, without gradually acclimating the dog first, thats the slippery route to
cannon butt or the Hershey squirts. ; )

1 1/2 lbs a day = 19.2 oz of meatymeat + 2.4 oz of edible bone + 1.2 oz of
liver + 1.2 oz of "other" organ

10.5 lbs per week = 8.4 lbs meatymeat + 16.8 oz edible bone + 8.4 oz liver +
8.4 oz "other" organ

OR feed it monthly, or whenever you remember, or need to clean out the
freezer. ^_^

Have you tried chopping the liver up and mixing it with some tripe? Yum,
stiiiiinky!

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 12, 2007 3:42 PM, patti.h310 <patti.h310@yahoo.com> wrote:

> We've been raw now for several months and I finally found beef
> kidney......now what!!?? Finnigan is 50lbs and pretty active so he
> does well with 1.5 lbs of food per day. We're on all the basics...pork,
> beef, chicken, lamb, and liver (which is almost impossible to get him
> to eat unless it's hidden). How much kidney? How often? Is it a
> muscle or organ?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12368

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Undigested chicken bones
From: blue eyed
1b. Re: Undigested chicken bones
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: strange habits of my dobes
From: Cathy
2b. strange habits of my dobes
From: blue eyed
2c. Re: strange habits of my dobes
From: carnesbill

3a. Re: 2nd type of 'Agression"
From: steph.sorensen

4a. Re: Breed specific info please : Springer spaniel
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker

5a. Re: Anyone near Portland Oregon?
From: shelleywestre

6a. Re: What to do with pork shoulder
From: Pamela Picard
6b. Re: What to do with pork shoulder
From: johnsonkp200
6c. Re: What to do with pork shoulder
From: Andrea

7. strange habits of dobes
From: famtimes@blazenetme.net

8a. do you feed once or twice a day?
From: johnsonkp200
8b. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: Andrea
8c. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: Scott Baker
8d. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: Chia
8e. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: Giselle
8f. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: jennifer_hell
8g. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: Dave Teetz
8h. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
From: Tina Berry

9a. Re: Hogmaw - the 'other' white meat?
From: carnesbill

10a. Re: Grinders
From: carnesbill
10b. Re: Grinders
From: costrowski75
10c. Re: Grinders
From: cactususan

11a. Re: not working yet - OT -- Sorry!
From: costrowski75

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Undigested chicken bones
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:48 am ((PST))

All I can say is that this has happened (every now and again) with my dog but has never actually caused a problem other than diahrea once, just his body's way of gtting rid of a bit of bone. I have decided to use the minced chicken carcasses from Landywoods for now but most of his other meals etc are RMB's. Thats not to say I wouldnt feed chicken bones at all in the future.

Natalie

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: Undigested chicken bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:28 am ((PST))

"i_calado" <i_calado@...> wrote:
>
But lately I've
> seen several pieces of undigested chicken bones in the shepherd's
> poo. And they look very sharp and splintery! Should I get worried?
*****
Based on what you describe? No. It is not only normal but also
healthy for undigested food to be ejected one way or the other before
it becomes a potentially destructive irritant.

You might be feeding too much bone; you might be feeding bone that's
denser than your shepherd can completely digest; it might just "one of
those things". Keep watch. If the bones continue to appear, review
the menu.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: strange habits of my dobes
Posted by: "Cathy" batcathy@sbcglobal.net batcathy2002
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:48 am ((PST))

as with people they are all different & have their likes / dislikes......key is to find what works for you & yours. i have found if I watch them they will tell me...the only one i worry over is my sicky girl and i jumped through hoops to feed her...until recently...she was under weight & 1 day would be more loss........now that i am not so worried she is eating better ( with a little help from friends) and if not I take it up & give later.
I have found with the liver & heart that if I place it in some hot water for a few minutes they eat it better....and chicken or turkey- i nick so they have a place to start...even long strips dragging seems to get their attention. I don't believe in catering but can be creative!!
Cathy

C Richmond
Lesmar's CC
Battle Creek, Mi.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. strange habits of my dobes
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:06 am ((PST))

My dobe eats the liver frozen, think they find it easier to chew that way as its not so 'squidgey' same with kidney and sometimes beef heart. Suits me less smell/mess.

He also likes RMB's to be frozen and chicken minced.

As to not eating certain foods, I have introduced a fast day at the moment and the food he dosnt eat is given the day after the fast, he usually decides he now likes it!

Other than that it will go back in the freezer and they just wont be offered that food for a while, if something goes back in the freezer - nothing else comes out!! Cant be hungry enough.

They have you well trained!! LOL

They all have their little prefrences though. Mine wont take food from other people, is this a dobe thing? He has only taken food ie treat from people a few times and thats only if we know them. The best type of bodyguard, not easily bribed!! LOL

Have you tried mixing minced chicken with tripe mince? May not be ideal as far as chewing bones...least they would be getting variety....

Natalie

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Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: strange habits of my dobes
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:51 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "arabianbluedobe"
<arabianbluedobe@...> wrote:
>
> I have 1 dobe who won't eat chicken or turkey. But she
> loves venison.
> My others love chicken, but look at me like I am crazy when I give
> venison.

Don't worry about what they "like" or don't "like". You decide what
they eat. It's your responsibility, not theirs.

You are doing right by taking away ... BUT ... you should give the
exact same food next meal and continue the process until they eat
it. Even if it takes days. No between meal treats or snacks for
that dog that day. They need to learn that they will eat what is
given or they don't eat. It's their choice.

Be firm. It's your job. Picky eaters are made, not born. Your
dogs are running full speed down the picky path. It will be much
easier to change direction now than later.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: 2nd type of 'Agression"
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:49 am ((PST))

Deb,

Ah, one of the many myths of raw feeding! I have also been told
numerous times that my dogs would get more aggressive by being fed
meat. Still waiting for that day to come. I'm not holding my
breath. :)

The fact that your Jacks have a taste for hunting is in their
blood. That is what they were bred for. In fact, since the
domestic dog is a subspecies of the wolf, one could go so far as to
say that it is instinct, not aggression, that drives hunting in all
canines.

I've got a pit bull and a lab, and nothing has changed except an
improvement in their health and a renewed vigor for their meals!
Scarlet and Lucy are still just as sweet as can
be. "Bloodthirstiness" is a myth.

-Steph and the girls

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Debi C" <dcole6@...> wrote:

> People are always telling me that feeding raw will make a dog
> agressive. I think it just makes them feel better and they want
to do
> more.
>
> Has anyone else heard this. I don't believe its true, but what's
the
> concensus here.
>
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Breed specific info please : Springer spaniel
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:22 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sisterloui" <habershon@...> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am at the moment the "carer" of my sisters springer spaniel.
>
> She is about 5 years old, hyperactive, nervous and timid and spends
> most of her time on her back in the submissive position.
>
> Have any of you experience of "nervy" spaniels.

Jane,
I have and foster both Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and English Toy
Spaniels. I feed everyone of the fosters raw even though they may
only be with me a short time. I believe it gives them a boost that
they desperately need and then I try to convince their forever family
to continue.
As for the behavior, I believe that can be slowly changed with the
proper love and training. Some dogs are more "nervy" than others and
require a special approach, but that is OT for this list.
The raw feeding will, however, help to balance the dog nutritionally
and then it will be more receptive to training.
Penny & The Menagerie

Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: Anyone near Portland Oregon?
Posted by: "shelleywestre" shelleybelly1@hotmail.com shelleywestre
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:22 am ((PST))

This is a list that helps Oregon/WA folks find their raw meat, check
it out...they do group orders to save $$, you just have to volunteer
once in a while to help...

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/WAzzuOR_BARF/?yguid=234508764

Also check out Willamette Valley Meats, they sell wholesale by the
case for good prices, you can stop by and get their price list for
"pet food" and they are very accomodating on cutting to size if needed..

Hope this helps!

Shelley Westre

Messages in this topic (3)
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6a. Re: What to do with pork shoulder
Posted by: "Pamela Picard" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:22 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "johnsonkp200" <sunfiretervs@...>
wrote:
>
> Today I bought a 9 pound pork picnic shoulder, bone in. I have a 50 lb
> dog. Now, how do I serve it? I feed him 2x a day. Many say just give
it >
> Karen

***

I also have a 50 lb dog. I am not at all squeamish about putting down
and picking up a piece of meat. My standard poodle is self regulating
so eats only "enough" and goes through big meat like pork shoulder
roasts and turkey breasts before they start to smell. I do filet meat
off the bone to keep meat/bone/organ in balance. He tends to eat this
more quickly. The only issue we have now with raw feeding is that he
thinks the towel I put down is for his comfort. He lays on it and
moves the meat onto the rug. Poodles. We're working on that. LOL

Pamela Picard
http://www.pet-wellness-update.com
http://aimees-law.blogspot.com/
aimees_law-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

***Sign the petition***
Exempt Sick & Senior Pets from Rabies Shots
http://www.petitiononline.com/tdsh2007/petition.html

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: What to do with pork shoulder
Posted by: "johnsonkp200" sunfiretervs@comcast.net johnsonkp200
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:22 am ((PST))

>> For your dog, you probably want to feed a little over a pound a meal
so that roast
> could last you about a week.

For my 50 lb dog that I feed twice a day, don't you mean a little over
a pound a day, IE 1/2 lb, 2 times a day? So the 9 pound roast should
last him, as you say, about a week?

Karen

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: What to do with pork shoulder
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:51 am ((PST))

You could feed through it until it is gone if you don't mind the roast
being in your fridge for nine days. Plunk it down in front of him and
let him eat about a pound before you take it away. It isn't necessary
to weigh exactly, just know that the roast = 9 days of food. If you
(or someone in the family) doesn't like the idea of a nine day old pork
hunk in the fridge, you could cut a hunk of meat off and freeze it for
later.

Wrestling with big food is good for dogs both physically and mentally,
so I wouldn't advise cutting it up into meal sized pieces.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "johnsonkp200" <sunfiretervs@...>
wrote:

> Today I bought a 9 pound pork picnic shoulder, bone in. I have a 50
> lb dog. Now, how do I serve it? I feed him 2x a day. Many say just
> give it to the dog whole. Isn't 9 pounds a bit too much for a meal?

Messages in this topic (6)
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________________________________________________________________________

7. strange habits of dobes
Posted by: "famtimes@blazenetme.net" famtimes@blazenetme.net famtimes2001
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:28 am ((PST))

Hi there,

When I first gave my youngest dog raw,
he threw it around for a while before he
figured out he was supposed to eat it.

When I had a reluctant/fussy eater
at the beginning, I ran the chicken
under warm water to bring it to room
temperature - giving it a bit more "scent"
perhaps. After a few times, I didn't have
to do that and my dogs will now take
things semi-frozen.

With liver, I usually mix it with something
else - like hamburger or ground turkey
and perhaps a little bacon grease...
and that seems to do the trick.

I do cook and dry liver for treats, too.
I'm not sure how much nutrient value
is lost but I know it's still good for them.

Jane B.

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Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________

8a. do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "johnsonkp200" sunfiretervs@comcast.net johnsonkp200
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:29 am ((PST))

A recent post advised my cutting down from feeding my adult dog twice a
day to once. For no particular reason, just because I am feeding raw, I
suppose? I have always fed twice a day and they look forward to it as
part of their cherished routine. Plus, I thought that dogs digested raw
faster than they do kibble, so wouldn't they be hungrier sooner?

So my question is, do most feed their adult dogs one or two times a day
on raw diet? I could not figure out what to type in the search box to
find this. Thanks

Karen

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:37 am ((PST))

When you are feeding raw, offering only one meal a day allows you to
give larger more complicated meals that are more satisfying for the
dog. Healthy adults don't need to be fed twice a day, in fact during
the winter time my GSP would rather eat a big meal every other day.

Also, feeding just once a day allows you to randomize the feeding time
which is great for human and dog alike. My first puppy had a fixed
feeding schedule at first and his life revolved around eating. Once he
graduated to single random meals his food obsession was reduced to
simple love of eating. Not to mention I didn't end up with bile vomit
if I got stuck in traffic on the way home and he missed "lunchtime."

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "johnsonkp200" <sunfiretervs@...>
wrote:

> So my question is, do most feed their adult dogs one or two times a
> day on raw diet?

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

8c. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:51 am ((PST))

Yup, I feed once a day, for this reason alone. To be able to feed larger
more complicated meals. I have a Bullmastiff and he gets roughly 2lbs a day.
Feeding small one pound meals would be way too small for him.

On Dec 12, 2007 11:37 AM, Andrea <poketmouse45@yahoo.com> wrote:

> When you are feeding raw, offering only one meal a day allows you to
> give larger more complicated meals that are more satisfying for the
> dog. Healthy adults don't need to be fed twice a day, in fact during
> the winter time my GSP would rather eat a big meal every other day.
>
> Also, feeding just once a day allows you to randomize the feeding time
> which is great for human and dog alike. My first puppy had a fixed
> feeding schedule at first and his life revolved around eating. Once he
> graduated to single random meals his food obsession was reduced to
> simple love of eating. Not to mention I didn't end up with bile vomit
> if I got stuck in traffic on the way home and he missed "lunchtime."
>
> Andrea
>

--
Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

8d. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:00 am ((PST))

### they quickly get over the expected feeding time when you eliminate
it. It's just habit and they adjust fast!

C hia & Ricco

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Messages in this topic (8)
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8e. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:14 am ((PST))

Hi, Karen!
The healthful benefits of improved appearance, fewer health
problems and and a stronger immune system from feeding raw is only part of
the story!

The dental, mental and physical exercise that dogs obtain when eating large,
complicated and engaging meals are very important for dogs, too.

Also, feeding one meal a day leads to feeding larger meals every other day,
then to feeding Big Food every few days, then possibly to gorge meals, where
a dog might eat as much as several days worth at a time. Feeding this way
allows you the flexibility to feed a small meal or larger meals at various
times a day to accommodate changes in your daily schedule, without your dog
getting frantic or having the Bile Vomits every time a meal is 'late'.

Dogs, as the wolves they truly are, were meant to eat this way. It very
often helps to solve the problems people have with dogs who seem to be
constantly hungry, scarfing off counters, scrounging crumbs, digging into
the trash , begging at the table and when people are having snacks. Allowing
them to build up to feeding as they naturally would if they had to hunt
their own meals leads to dogs who are not constantly searching for their
next tiny meal, trying to fill the void.

I, and a lot of other raw feeders, believe that feeding in this manner leads
dogs to a more satisfied and relaxed emotional outlook, not as worried about
where the next meal is coming from, because they have experienced the
feeling of eating to satiety over and over again.

If you want to search the archives, using Gorge, Gorge and Fast, Big Food as
your key words should get you a lot of posts.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 12, 2007 10:28 AM, johnsonkp200 <sunfiretervs@comcast.net> wrote:

> A recent post advised my cutting down from feeding my adult dog twice a
> day to once. For no particular reason, just because I am feeding raw, I
> suppose? I have always fed twice a day and they look forward to it as
> part of their cherished routine. Plus, I thought that dogs digested raw
> faster than they do kibble, so wouldn't they be hungrier sooner?
>
> So my question is, do most feed their adult dogs one or two times a day
> on raw diet? I could not figure out what to type in the search box to
> find this. Thanks
>
> Karen
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

8f. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:47 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "johnsonkp200" <sunfiretervs@...>
wrote:
>
> A recent post advised my cutting down from feeding my adult dog twice a
> day to once. For no particular reason, just because I am feeding raw, I
> suppose? I have always fed twice a day and they look forward to it as
> part of their cherished routine. Plus, I thought that dogs digested raw
> faster than they do kibble, so wouldn't they be hungrier sooner?
>
My girl was always fed once a day. Now I need to feed her twice, at
least when she gets beef meat, otherwise she gets reflux problems a
few hours later.

Jennifer

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

8g. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "Dave Teetz" dteetz@gmail.com dteetz
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:49 am ((PST))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES!

Just this past weekend I moved my dogs from twice a day to once a day. I'm
still new at raw, so there's some prep time until I get in a groove, but
once a day is saving lots of time. I've opted to feed at night so there is
no time wasted in the morning.

While practice makes perfect for prep time I can also say that once a day is
fantastic so far. Previously the dogs (GSD and Golden Ret.) would run
outside in the morning. The GR would forgo his morning potty and stand at
the door, staring in the window, waiting for food. Now he goes out and does
his thing then stares in the window to come in.

I do vary the feeding times at night so as to break the anticipation. The
dogs are doing just fine with it so far.

Dave

On Dec 12, 2007 10:28 AM, johnsonkp200 <sunfiretervs@comcast.net> wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

8h. Re: do you feed once or twice a day?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:01 am ((PST))

"Plus, I thought that dogs digested raw faster than they do kibble, so
wouldn't they be hungrier sooner"

I feed once a day because their systems are designed to eat a large meal,
then nothing for atleast 24 hours - it also gives their organs a break
between feedings.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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9a. Re: Hogmaw - the 'other' white meat?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:30 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 12/10/2007 5:42:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> alabamdeb2@... writes:
>
> Is this considered muscle meat, like chicken gizzard, or is
> it considered organ meat?

All nutrients have been bleached out of it. It is considered
garbage. Don't bother feeding it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Grinders
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:47 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Fay" <agilecairns@...> wrote:
>
> I have recently adopted a dog who has only a few teeth left.
> Is there a
> recommended grinder that will handle chicken bones,etc?

There are many many dogs with as few as 2 or 3 teeth left that can
handle whole chicken parts easily including bones.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

10b. Re: Grinders
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:38 am ((PST))

"Fay" <agilecairns@...> wrote:>
> I have recently adopted a dog who has only a few teeth left. Is there
a
> recommended grinder that will handle chicken bones,etc?
*****
Such a dog does not need ground food. There are many people on this
list who feed dogs with few teeth, and they do so successfully with
whole meats and organs and appropriate bones. I recommend you browse
the list archives for previous solutions.

Chicken bones are easily eaten, no grinding needed. The only bones a
home grinder can deal with are the very bones even a disabled dog can
crunch on its own. Better to spend that grinder money on some lovely
grassfed meat.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

10c. Re: Grinders
Posted by: "cactususan" desperatelyseekingsusan@cox.net cactususan
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:59 am ((PST))

Let 'em use the teeth he's got left, or he'll loose those, too. He'll
figure it out.

Susan

Messages in this topic (4)
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________________________________________________________________________

11a. Re: not working yet - OT -- Sorry!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:21 am ((PST))

"sheila" <schatzee@...> wrote:
>
> can you give me the link to raw chat? sheila
*****
Sheila, it's listed as one of several sister lists in the Admin posts
you received when you subscribed. Check your files.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (13)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12367

There are 6 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: What to do with pork shoulder
From: Giselle

2a. Re: not working yet - OT -- Sorry!
From: Giselle

3a. Re: Undigested chicken bones
From: Chia

4. Grinders
From: Fay

5. 2nd type of 'Agression"
From: Debi C

6. strange habits of my dobes
From: arabianbluedobe

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Re: What to do with pork shoulder
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:13 am ((PST))

Hi, Karen!
Cutting up an animal part really doesn't require much
knowledge, you just need a sharp knife, heavy kitchen shears, a sturdy
cutting board and a damp towel. Oh, and a box of gallon sized plastic bags
(I like the zippy ones).

Decide how many portions you want to get from the part you are portioning.
If you can eyeball a day's portion, then you're ok, it doesn't need to be
perfect. If you can't, you could visualize 4 oz beef patties, stacked up
into your dog's meal sized portion.

IMO, if your dog is experienced in eating all the proteins you've listed, he
could very well go to one meal a day, np. You could also start working into
alternately feeding him 2 days worth of food (meatless or with bone) one
day, then a tiny snack meal or edible bone the next.

The damp towel goes under the cutting board, to keep it from slipping. ^_^
You might also want to use dish washing gloves, or cheap cotton work gloves
for the same reason.

This link shows the pork shoulder cut;
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts_photos/pork.pdf
This link shows where the bone is and what it looks like in the shoulder
cut;
http://homecooking.about.com/od/porkrecipes/ss/deboneporksbs_4.htm

Once you have identified where the bone is, and have cut it out, then you
can cut off large collops of the shoulder, in meal sized hunks. I'd feed the
bone separately, whenever I wanted to provide my dog with some quality bliss
time.

If you have the shoulder picnic roast, then there are two bones, you can cut
them both out and release the connecting tendons and get two bones to feed
separately. You can figure out if there is two bones, because the joint will
bend when you grip one end, press down near the center of the roast and move
it.

You might want to factor in adding to each meal, say, additionally purchased
whole pork neck bones, or even chicken leg quarters or backs, if your dog
does better with bone in most meals. I'd prepackage these items together in
the baggies, either one meal, or one day or a few days of food at a time.

HTH
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 11, 2007 11:21 PM, johnsonkp200 <sunfiretervs@comcast.net> wrote:

> Okay long timers...
> Newbie here whose dog is eating chicken parts, beef parts and pork
> parts, plus gizzards, hearts,livers, eggs and salmon.
> I still am having trouble knowing how to cut up and dole out the
> portions.
>
> Today I bought a 9 pound pork picnic shoulder, bone in. I have a 50 lb
> dog. Now, how do I serve it? I feed him 2x a day. Many say just give it
> to the dog whole. Isn't 9 pounds a bit too much for a meal? I don't
> relish the idea of putting it back in the fridge over and over - after
> all, how do I know how long to leave it with him, and how would I
> monitor how much he ate at a sitting? Besides, it's not free and I will
> take no pleasure in him gorging himself and pooping it right out in a
> loose stool. Not my idea of a good investment, if you know what I mean.
> I await your economical advice. Thanks.
>
> Karen
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: not working yet - OT -- Sorry!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:17 am ((PST))

Hi, Sheila!
Here ya go;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/?yguid=200913350

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 12, 2007 6:23 AM, sheila <schatzee@comporium.net> wrote:

> can you give me the link to raw chat? sheila
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
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3a. Re: Undigested chicken bones
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:39 am ((PST))

I'm very happy with the general results of feeding raw my white
shepherd and my miniature pinscher for three weeks. But lately I've
seen several pieces of undigested chicken bones in the shepherd's
poo. And they look very sharp and splintery! Should I get worried?
Ivanir Calado, Brazil.

#### not to worry this is totally normal and will eventually stop after a
month or two. However, sometimes when new sources are introduced you may
see this on occasion. I used to semi-regularly notice this is in my boy in
the beginning but it has been years since then. I know they look scary
though!

Those intestinal walls are TOUGH... a little bone shard nested in poop
will do no harm.

Chia & Ricco

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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4. Grinders
Posted by: "Fay" agilecairns@aol.com cadaidh
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:56 am ((PST))

I have recently adopted a dog who has only a few teeth left. Is there a
recommended grinder that will handle chicken bones,etc?

Thanks,

Fay

Messages in this topic (1)
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5. 2nd type of 'Agression"
Posted by: "Debi C" dcole6@satx.rr.com scarlet_debi
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:17 am ((PST))

I have always had 'Agressive' breeds of dogs. Everything from Amer
Staffordshire Terriers, GSDs, a Pit/SharPei, to Rat and Jack Russells

I grew up on a farm with dogs who ate raw when they got it. My two
JRTs will hunt and kill little furry things and scaled things.

People are always telling me that feeding raw will make a dog
agressive. I think it just makes them feel better and they want to do
more.

Has anyone else heard this. I don't believe its true, but what's the
concensus here.

Debi, 2 Jacks and 1 App
If you can't keep up with the little white dogs, stay on the porch!

myspace.com/miz_debi

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6. strange habits of my dobes
Posted by: "arabianbluedobe" arabianbluedobe@yahoo.com arabianbluedobe
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:17 am ((PST))

I have 1 dobe who won't eat chicken or turkey. But she loves venison.
My others love chicken, but look at me like I am crazy when I give
venison. One doesn't like heart. None like liver. Is it just taste
preference or is it because they are new to thediet. I haven't been
searing and I don't want to start. I just take the fod away and give
back at a later date.
April

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