Feed Pets Raw Food: Aug 16, 2007

Thursday, August 16, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11919

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: vet says Yeay to rawfeeding
From: Giselle

2a. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: Giselle

3a. Garlic and Dogs
From: paperfibe
3b. Re: Garlic and Dogs
From: costrowski75
3c. Re: Garlic and Dogs
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

4a. first feed
From: Linda Gower
4b. Re: first feed
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
4c. Re: first feed
From: Laurie Swanson

5a. pork neck bones
From: lhmcmaken
5b. Re: pork neck bones
From: Giselle
5c. Re: pork neck bones
From: costrowski75
5d. Re: pork neck bones
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
5e. Re: pork neck bones
From: Morledzep@aol.com

6a. Re: feeding beef
From: linoleum5017

7a. Re: Just started feeding raw
From: linoleum5017

8a. Re: Finding expired meats
From: woofwoofgrrl
8b. Re: Finding expired meats
From: Morledzep@aol.com
8c. Re: Finding expired meats
From: costrowski75

9. knackery drop off
From: bluegracepwd

10a. Re: not eating
From: linoleum5017

11a. Re: Swift Tribe Questions (lengthy)
From: costrowski75

12a. Re: freeze first?
From: costrowski75

13a. Re: Ok, update from new Raw feeder
From: costrowski75

14a. Re: Now what do I do????
From: costrowski75

15. raw & puppy development
From: Stevie Mathre

Messages
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1a. Re: vet says Yeay to rawfeeding
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:41 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Ivette!
I think that RMB means different things to different people
now.

Those of us who have come to prey model raw by way of home cooked,
then through B*RF or other 'raw feeding' plans before prey model raw
have a different take on the term, having come through the history and
know the real meaning, as it were.

I always try to clarify the meaning, especially if I don't know the
feeding history of the newbie requesting information.

I try to never use the term, as it has negative connotations for some
peeps, and is a very unclear term for others.

I just say whole animals or animal parts, bones included or boneless. : )

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> <<...But, when used in the B*RF way of feeding it usually means mostly
> inedible bones...>>
>
> Giselle, I was the one that mentioned RMB in my original post of
"vet says Yeay to rawfeeding" but I didn't mean the type of bones the
B*RFers use. I actually meant raw meaty bones, meat and bones
together. Sorry for the confusiong. I just meant meat with the bone IN.
>
>
> Ivette Casiano
> "Live for today, plan for tomorrow"
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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2a. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:52 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Kimber!
This list supports a whole raw prey model diet.
You aren't likely to get much input or support for feeding premade
commercial ground stuff.

Why is feeding raw "too gross" to you?
The cat or dog does all the 'preparing', you just need to thaw and serve.

There is a couple lists for feeding cats raw - try searching for
rawcat, can't remember the raw fed cat chat list name - you can use
the Yahoo Groups Search feature to find them.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> > Hi all, I am new to the raw food idea for cats/dogs. I have been going
> > towards more natural products and care for me and my horses.
> >
> > Has anyone tried Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets? How many medallions
> > would a cat eat? I have no interest in preparing raw food, too gross
> > for me so this looked like a good alternative.
> >
> > -Kimber T

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Garlic and Dogs
Posted by: "paperfibe" CollageStudio@bendbroadband.com paperfibe
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:26 pm ((PDT))

Hi, thought I would post as I read on one of the other posts to use
garlic to "favor".
Garlic has a toxic ingredient thiosulphate for dogs and I would not
recommend using garlic in any amounts. It can cause anything from
minor upset tummy, diarrhea and vomiting.

Love reading all the posts and I promise to post more soon..I have not
had much time on the computer.!

Doc and Wyatt are doing great on Raw Heres their blog about the switch
over;
http://docwyattraw.blogspot.com/

And their adventures in rescue funding:
http://0krunforcharity.blogspot.com/

Deb and the Boys

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Garlic and Dogs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:53 pm ((PDT))

"paperfibe" <CollageStudio@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, thought I would post as I read on one of the other posts to use
> garlic to "favor".
> Garlic has a toxic ingredient thiosulphate for dogs and I would not
> recommend using garlic in any amounts. It can cause anything from
> minor upset tummy, diarrhea and vomiting.
*****
Thanks for the warning, but there's quite a body of evidence that
indicates raw garlic fed moderately may offer some health benefits
and may as well be an effective flea deterrent.

The operant word of course is moderate. Yassy suggested I think half
a clove every other day; I have seen (and follow) somewhat more
assertive schedules but it's clear in all the variations that
moderation is key.

I'm certain I've read that the skin is potentially dangerous, not the
meat.

Clearly, if you are not comfortable with garlic on the menu, don't
feed it.
Chris o

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3c. Re: Garlic and Dogs
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:14 pm ((PDT))

I have used garlic for years as a flavor additive and for things like natural worming. Works wonders here in our house and we have never had any adverse reactions or side affects, and we will keep using it, for the dogs and for us. I have never heard it was harmful. Have heard that grapes and tomatos were, but never garlic. I have to admit, my guys get away with a few tomatos from the garden, and do some counter surfing and steal some grapes but never get enough to worry about. Or maybe they just don't eat enough to do any damage. But all my dogs have garlic, and will continue too. Thanks for the info, where did you get it? Worth a little more research.
It's in all my holistic books for dogs and cats too.
Jeni

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4a. first feed
Posted by: "Linda Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:28 pm ((PDT))

Well, I jumped in with both feet this evening. They had chicken thighs on sale at Kroger today, so picked up a pack to test drive. Those hens had some thunder thighs!!!

Chase - my 15#er got one thigh and I gave Lance - my 65#er two of the biggest thighs. Chase picked at it for about five seconds and the next thing I know he's down on the ground chomping away. Lance on the other hand became delicate and ate the bone out of one thigh and acted like the rest had been sprinkled with poison! Goofy dog - he's been fed raw in the past, don't know why he's acting delicate now. So, back in the fridge it went - he'll be hungrier in the morning.

Whole chickens need to go on sale before I try them.............thighs for now. I have to unearth my scale and see how much those buggers weigh. I'd say they were approaching a 1/2 pound each. Wish I'd picked up more now.

I was very amused at watching Chase chowing down - who says poodles are delicate!

Linda Gower - Mid-TN

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4b. Re: first feed
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:21 pm ((PDT))

congrats and good going, all that chicken, boy your dogs are loving it!
Keep it up. It's funny and it cracks me up, the whole chicken is more expensive than the parts, go figure?! I get mine at the base, and sometimes at costco, they are only .99 a pound there, whole. Happy Hunting!
Jeni

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4c. Re: first feed
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:22 pm ((PDT))

Yay, Linda! I like hearing these stories. It is fun, isn't it?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Linda Gower" <pudeltime@...> wrote:

> I was very amused at watching Chase chowing down - who says poodles
are delicate!

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5a. pork neck bones
Posted by: "lhmcmaken" lhmcmaken@yahoo.com lhmcmaken
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:28 pm ((PDT))

I saw these in the store and got a small box. they look like they
have been cut. they are from walmart. how should i feed these to my
great danes? thanks.
take care
lynda maude and franklin

Messages in this topic (18)
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5b. Re: pork neck bones
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:40 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Lynda!
I wouldn't recommend that you feed cut neck bones to a giant breed of
dog. Why not ask someone 'behind the counter' at the supermarket, and
see if you can get them whole, before they are cut up?
They are pretty bony, but soft and completely edible. I add meat, like
beef, to them when I feed them to my Newfy.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I saw these in the store and got a small box. they look like they
> have been cut. They are from Walmart. How should I feed these to my
> Great Danes? Thanks.
> take care
> Lynda, Maude and Franklin
>

Messages in this topic (18)
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5c. Re: pork neck bones
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:00 pm ((PDT))

"lhmcmaken" <lhmcmaken@...> wrote:
>
> I saw these in the store and got a small box. they look like they
> have been cut. they are from walmart. how should i feed these to my
> great danes?
*****
You don't.
They are way too small, notably so if you got a small box of them.
Chalk them up to learning and don't buy more.

If you want to feed pork neck bones, buy whole ones (well, they're sort
of halved, but big rather than small) from a meat wholesaler or from a
meat department that acutally cuts meat, and add a heap o' meat to the
meal, then let your Danes work on one of those (each).

The cut bones you bought are appropriate for barbecuing or roasting as
people treats, they are too bony and too small for dogs, especially big
dogs.
Chris O

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5d. Re: pork neck bones
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:21 pm ((PDT))

I have two great danes, and Zena my girl, I never worry about her abilities to eat, chew, or narl up anything, she can go at it like there is no tomorrow, and sometimes you think that she doesn't think there is! Now, Zeus, my boy, a little more Genteeel. He waits for her to do all the work. Store cut bones, I don't usually worry about. Everyone says you should, but with these guys mouths, they are so big, and if there is a problem, Zena upchucks it, and no problem. She doesn't usually cut herself on anything sharp, but they do look sharp, and some feel pretty sharp. Some of the emu bones I have gotten are pretty sharp looking too. But she tackles those with gusto and keeps going. I have even seen her spinter rib bones after they have dried up and she is ok with those too, eats them then even when they are dried up. So, with my two danes, nothing seems to be off limits. But if you are worried, you can take a big file from the garage and file the
bone down some, or take the bone out, and feed it as a meat meal. Or do like the other person said and see if the butcher will get you them whole. But I think Walmart gets their meat already prepackaged. I already asked one guy here, and that's what he told me. Might be different where you are at. My guys really like the shoulders too, I cut off all the meat, and save the bones, then they each get a really big bone:) Happy all over around here. The shoulder is about $1.20 a pound at the base here. Sometimes less if there is a sale. For me and mine, they seem to be able to handle just about whatever I give them. It's up to you and what you think they can tackle, you know your dogs, see what they can do, just stick around and watch. Be a good mommy and see how it goes. You'll know.
Jeni

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5e. Re: pork neck bones
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:16 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/16/2007 9:01:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Chriso75@AOL.COM writes:

The cut bones you bought are appropriate for barbecuing or roasting as
people treats, they are too bony and too small for dogs, especially big
dogs.

****those cut pork neck bones are great for making soup stock..

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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6a. Re: feeding beef
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:40 pm ((PDT))

Good luck! Around the PA area, I cannotfind any beef dog-worthy under
$3/lb. My dog has never tasted it. Luckily, also in PA, we have many
deer hunters, so I get venison for free. I hate to give that to the
dog, though, as it is so good, and chemical/hormone free. We share!

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Becky Brooks (Marsh)"
<kidcreations1@...> wrote:
>
> We have been feeding our dogs raw for about 2 months and would like
to
> introduce beef. > Becky
>

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7a. Re: Just started feeding raw
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:40 pm ((PDT))

I second what Catherine said. In addition, I would add that each day,
you want to feed 2-3% of your dog's ideal weight. So if your dog
weighed 100 lbs., you'd want to feed him 2 - 3 lbs. per day. A 60 lb.
boxer would require around 1.2 lbs., depending upon his metabolism.

Also, remember that raw eggs are very beneficial. Liver is
recommended on this list as 5% (of the 10% organ goal,) because it its
that necessary. Go for kidneys, and in whole-prey, your dog can get
brains, eyes, innards of all gross variety. Heart, tongue and
gizzards are considered meat, not organ. Even so, heart is rich, and
might cause diarrhea, so go easy at first.

One of the first difficulties new rawfeeders encounter is the
temptation to feed a lot of bone. That leads to 'rock-poop,' as I
think Chris O. dubs it. Meat so dense that it hides the bone within
is more desirable than visible bone-in meat. Necks, backs, wings,
even chicken legs are extremely bony, and need some meaty meat to
counteract the imbalance.

And the dogs bark a huge hoo-rah! Way to go!

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
>
>> Kathleen,
>
> you're gonna hear this from LOTS of folks.. get ready for the
barrage..
>
> cancel your order for the chicken backs and necks.. these are not
suitable
> parts for any dog, too much bone and the necks are the perfect shape
to cause
> choking.
>
> > Catherine R.
>

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8a. Re: Finding expired meats
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:40 pm ((PDT))

So I wonder where exactly it 'goes' when they get rid of it?
I'd hope soup kitchen or food pantry or something.... or should we all
start garbage picking behind the grocery store?!
Christine

Shireen Schwartz wrote:
>
>
> I have been to my local stores in Kennesaw, GA Publix, Kroger, Costco,
> Walmart, even butcher. None are willing to sell expired meats because of
> liabilty is what I was told. Walmart will discout their meat the day b4
> it expires by 30%. Can get some decent deals that way. You just have to
> hit it earlier in the day when the meat guy goes thru the available
> stock and reprices it. I was even told that they don't even allow their
> store employees to take the meat home, they guy told me he would still
> use it even if it was expired it's not 'bad' yet. All that good meat to
> the dump only if we could get our hands it!!!!
> Shireen

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8b. Re: Finding expired meats
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:44 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/16/2007 6:40:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com writes:

So I wonder where exactly it 'goes' when they get rid of it?
I'd hope soup kitchen or food pantry or something.... or should we all
start garbage picking behind the grocery store?!

Christine,

the expired meats are sold to a renderer.. some of it even eventually ends up
in poison pellets, but that would only be the stuff that is leftover after
everything else useful is extracted..

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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8c. Re: Finding expired meats
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:40 pm ((PDT))

Nathalie Poulin <poulin_nathalie@...> wrote:
>
> Yah. I used to work at Loblaws and their policy is to
> throw out bread/meat etc (if it goes past the sale
> date), they won't give anything away for free, not
> even to employees.
*****
Boy, even bread? That is cruel and unusual punishment. Here in
Sacatomatoes California, the Senior Gleaners project is really active
and efficient; bread and veggies are regularly collected for soup
kitchens and the like, not meat though, alas.
Chris o

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9. knackery drop off
Posted by: "bluegracepwd" janea@tpg.com.au bluegracepwd
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:24 pm ((PDT))

yesterday the knackery dropped off 6 sheep (dressed), 30kg of sheep
heart and some other bones. Total price $105. The freezers are now
well and truly full, and yet again, I'm proving handy with an axe!

The dogs will be eating well for a few weeks!

cheers

Jane
www.bluegrace.com
Australia

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10a. Re: not eating
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:28 pm ((PDT))

Schott,

I see you posted a few weeks ago, also naming veggies as the food your
hund prefers. This list promotes prey-model rawfeeding, as the
complete nutrition paradigm for dogs. That means, despite what your
dog's finicky preferences are, those on this list believe what is best
for any carnivore canine is all that comes within a meaty prey.

It is also understood on this list that some dogs have become confused
about what they ought to eat, and that ki**le can, like junk food,
taste and smell more appealing than the real thing. A wise pet owner,
it seems, would not buy into the misguided desires of a 'wayward' dog,
instead suggesting a prey model diet, as it is much, much better for
them.

Lynne

-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "schottscrazyzoo"
<schottscrazyzoo@...> wrote:
>
> I'm new to this and I have 7 dogs 1 of them is having no part of the
> raw meat or bones he'll eat any veggie I put in front of him but no
> meat what do I do ?? Schott
>

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11a. Re: Swift Tribe Questions (lengthy)
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:05 pm ((PDT))

"Ash" <want4rain@...> wrote:
>
> also, i was wondering about sea food?? shrimp or lobster?? if the cats
> will eat that, whats the benefit? i know oyster falls under the organ
> meat category. what abotu the rest of it?
*****
It's all possible, not so terribly appropriate but certainly doable if
the cat is agreeable. I would not waste lobster money on cats, but I
have fed shrimp bits when cleaning them. Oysters don't fall under the
organ meat catagory--oysters may be slimy and slurpy but they're not
exclusively organ meat.

What about the rest of it what? Fish? Not required; can be fed in
moderation if the cat buys into the plan. My cat occasionally eats a
whole sardine and she quite likes salmon and white fish. Clams? These
definitely strike me as inappropriate but if you want to try, try.
Same for squid and octopus and other denizens of the deep.
Chris O

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12a. Re: freeze first?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:13 pm ((PDT))

"ekayke" <ekayke@...> wrote:
>is
> it always necessary to freeze meet before feeding to
*****
Nope. Most commercial meat has been frozen for shipment; even meat
that's fresh to the market can be fed as is if its source is
reputable. Given what dogs are more than happy to get into on their
own, I can't see commercial meat being dangerous to them.

if i buy a
> whole, unfrozen chicken from the market, would i need to freeze it
> before feeding?
*****
No, not needed. I frequently buy fresh chickens in the AM and feed
them in the PM.

if not,is it only "wild" meats that need to be frozen
> first?
*****
Not everyone freezes wild game before they feed it. I'd guess most
people would freeze wild game if the particulars were not known, or
perhaps give it some thought. I do not always freeze venison, but I
do freeze bunnies and if I had the option of feeding wild pig, I
would freeze that. At the very least, freezing kills the fleas.
Chris O

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13a. Re: Ok, update from new Raw feeder
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:29 pm ((PDT))

"charlesmdodson" <charlesmdodson@...> wrote:
> I was cutting Sherman's food intake in three portions spread out
> over the day but I understand I dont need to do this at seven months
> of age? He is 7 months and 70 lbs (Doberman).
*****
Right. He's good for two squares a day, no problem. And a 70lb pup
does not need his food cut up. Start thinking big food and by the time
he's 10 months or so you can move him to one meal a day and he'll be
able to do justice to the bigger food you've had a chance to
investigate.

I have been feeding
> him about 3 lbs of meat per day total. More or less?
*****
Unless he's a high roller, this stikes me as quite a lot of food day
after day. I'd be thinking two pounds a day, myself.

OTOH, if he eats well, digests well, plays and sleeps hard, has a great
coat and healthy skin, has a fine robust view ohis world and is as lean
as a long distance runner, then he's likely doing well on three pounds
a day. I recommend you watch him though, and if/when he starts to
looking thick, cut back.

I understand tripe is a popular favorite among dogs. Any
> advice on how much to feed? I'm sure its considered organ since its
> a stomach right?
*****
Alas, store bought tripe is not the tripe we recommend. What you
bought has been bleached and effectively stripped of its natural
value. The stuff some of us tend to go on about is green tripe, which
is minimally processed, stinky as all get out and utterly unwelcome on
a USDA approved supermarket. Green tripe can be bought online from
several sources and can be gotten direct if you have connections.

Raw green tripe can be fed as a stand alone meal and it can be fed with
meat and/or organs pretty much however you want. My dogs have never
responded poorly to it but some dogs so. When you get your hands on
raw green tripe, feed it in small amounts til you see how your dog
reacts.

What you purchased can be offered as a fun toy; if he's still teething
(not likely I suppose) the white stuff might help him work through the
discomfort.
Chris O

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14a. Re: Now what do I do????
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:40 pm ((PDT))

Loretta Luja <luja@...> wrote:
> Funny that since I introduced raw meat to them, they
> won't touch veggies or fruit. Maybe I can mix something
> in a little ground beef.
*****
Heavens, don't bother.

I have heard of pumkin being good
> to use to get things through, but haven't tried it yet
*****
Pumpkin is baloney. Pumpkin is artifice, fooling around, interfering
with natural responses to natural situations. If you want your dogs
to produce looser stools, feed looser food. Feed more fat, feed some
squidgy organs, feed red meat. Or feed some fish body oil. There
are many ways to lube the tubes that do not require cooked vegetation.

Chcken is not necessarily too lean, but it quite fairly boney.
Reduce the amount of bone you feed and the stools will be softer. It
may take a while and some meals to sort out what amount of meat/bone
works best for each dog. Pumpkin is not part of the learning process.

Chris O
Please remember to trim your messages.

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15. raw & puppy development
Posted by: "Stevie Mathre" Rivendel@702com.net stevie_mathre
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:12 pm ((PDT))

I have a question which may or may not be related to raw feeding.

I have always had girls, and am now raising my first baby boy. He's a
smooth collie, 15 weeks old now. Show quality. I'm starting to worry
because his testicles haven't dropped yet.
Has anyone here who's been raising puppies on raw, noticed any
correlation between the two? I do know his growth has been
wonderfully even - no spurts in the front & wait for his read to
catch up, etc.

Thanks in advance...
Stevie & Kiernan the wonder pup
& the rest of the raw gang

Stevie Mathre CPDT
Rivendel Collies
Association of Pet Dog Trainers
rivendel@702com.net

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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11918

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Finding expired meats
From: Cris Milam

2a. Re: Lamb and Goat
From: Laurie Swanson
2b. Re: Lamb and Goat
From: Trish Chapman

3a. Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)
3b. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: Candee Brey

4a. Re: Ok, update from new Raw feeder
From: Andrea

5a. Re: freeze first?
From: Andrea

6a. Re: 25-35 # dogs
From: Andrea
6b. Re: 25-35 # dogs
From: woofwoofgrrl
6c. Re: 25-35 # dogs
From: merril Woolf

7a. Re: ??'s about organ meat and catfish?
From: Giselle
7b. Re: ??'s about organ meat and catfish?
From: mz_boomer2
7c. Re: ??'s about organ meat and catfish?
From: Giselle

8a. Re: Now what do I do????
From: Loretta Luja
8b. Re: Now what do I do????
From: Loretta Luja
8c. Re: Now what do I do????
From: ginny wilken
8d. Re: Now what do I do????
From: Loretta Luja

9a. Re: Ginny?
From: ginny wilken
9b. Re: Ginny?
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

10a. Re: Losing Weight & not feeling herself
From: Giselle

11. Re: new puppy and other questions
From: Michael Moore

12a. Processing Tripe
From: Dawn Ruhl

13.1. new to raw feeding
From: Mick
13.2. Re: new to raw feeding
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

14a. Re: vet says Yeay to rawfeeding
From: Ivette Casiano

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Finding expired meats
Posted by: "Cris Milam" cmilam@comcast.net cris_milam
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:55 pm ((PDT))

Well, you can always consider "dumpster diving"! My son used to do it --
yes, I know it is weird..... He found that Wal-Mart had a crusher so that
was a bust. However, K-Mart would put their nice things on the side of the
dumpster. Apparently they knew that some people would come to pick them up.
IGA sometimes put things in the dumpster and sometimes left them on the
side. It might be worth a drive to the back of the store just to see what
their disposal methods are.

Personally, I was always afraid the "Dumpster Police" would come yell at me
so no free meat for me from that avenue.

Cris M

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Lamb and Goat
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:58 pm ((PDT))

Hi Jim & Sara,

What do you have to choose from? I just bought 1/2 a lamb through the
local buying co-op and all the pieces I've fed so far have been fine,
except much fattier than what I see/buy in grocery stores. From the
store, I've mostly fed lamb shanks--my 20 lb. Boston works at getting
the meat off, eats the ball joint end, and I remove the rest of the
marrow/leg bone after that cuz I'm worried about him damaging a tooth
(but bigger dogs can probably eat the whole thing). As far as goat, I
buy big hunks at Asian markets (I think it's just a whole goat cut into
6 parts)--legs are my preference (meatier), but sometimes I get the
other ribby hunks.

I'm not sure exactly what pork rib "tips" are, but they sound small--
why are you feeding those, as opposed to bigger ribs? Are they in
slabs? Is your dog a careful eater (I'd be concerned about choking if
they are small bone fragments, especially if your dog is a gulper at
all.)?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rocketblasther" <jforbes05@...>
wrote:
>
> What are some good food choices from Lamb and Goat.

> Also, is bone gristle good for dogs? I've been feedind my GSD pork
rib
> tips and some time they have a lot of bone gristle in it.

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: Lamb and Goat
Posted by: "Trish Chapman" twotheark@verizon.net twotheark
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:07 pm ((PDT))

I have a question about lamb bones, too. I have been able to get an
assortment of lamb bones and organs for $1/lb. Smme of the bones aren't
label, some are labeled neck or shank. Am I correct in assuming that I can
feed all of it to my dogs? Someone recently said something about the legs
are weight bearing and shouldn't be fed, but I thought that only applied to
really big animals like cows, not little lambs. The dogs are 75-85 lb dogs.

Thanks,
Trish

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:11 pm ((PDT))

It's great that you are going to a more natural form of feeding your
animals, just like Mother Nature intended. Congratulations! You won't
have to worry one bit about "preparing" raw food. You just find nice,
hopefully on sale, meaty raw bones upholstered in the plushest, juiciest
raw meat you can find, unwrap it, and hand it to the dog. That's all the
food prep that is needed. Dog does the rest.

Carolyn J. Garnaas

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Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "Candee Brey" candee@netnet.net candeeloubrey
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:38 pm ((PDT))

I have fed it to my dogs when traveling and it seems to work for them.

Candee
On Aug 16, 2007, at 12:49 PM, tapremium2002 wrote:

> Hi all, I am new to the raw food idea for cats/dogs. I have been going
> towards more natural products and care for me and my horses.
>
> Has anyone tried Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets? How many medallions
> would a cat eat? I have no interest in preparing raw food, too gross
> for me so this looked like a good alternative.
>
> -Kimber T
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Ok, update from new Raw feeder
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:27 pm ((PDT))

Hi, your purchases look really good. Well, with the exception of the
tripe. If you bought it at a grocery store it has been cleaned and
sanitized into nutritional submission. Grocery stores aren't allowed
to sell the good stuff ever. Lots of us make this mistake at first,
so don't feel bad.

> I was cutting Sherman's food intake in three portions spread out
> over the day but I understand I dont need to do this at seven
> months of age?

It varies from pup to pup, but many pups do well with two meals a day
around six months of age and one a day around 9 months. As far as I
can tell, the reason you want to feed a puppy several times a day is
so they don't get runny stools. Anyone who knows different, please
please please let me know. My 4.5mo pup prefers to eat one meal a
day and his poos are fine, so I don't make him eat twice a day (I'd
gladly change if I need to).

> He is 7 months and 70 lbs (Doberman). I have been feeding
> him about 3 lbs of meat per day total. More or less?

How does he look? I fed my first puppy 2% of his ideal weight every
day for the first several months and ended up with a chunky pup.
With the newest addition, I go by his body and he looks much
healthier, but now I have no idea how much he eats a day (but I know
it's a lot).

Andrea

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: freeze first?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:32 pm ((PDT))

Yes, you only need freeze "wild" meats to get rid of possible
parasites. Meat from the market not only wouldn't have parasites, but
it has more than likely already been frozen before it gets to the
market.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ekayke" <ekayke@...> wrote:

> is it always necessary to freeze meet before feeding to dogs?

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6a. Re: 25-35 # dogs
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:34 pm ((PDT))

Have you started yet? Go and buy some whole chickens and whack them
into quarters. Hand a quarter to each dog and see how it goes. You
want to start with about 3/4lb every day (so if you buy chickens that
weigh about 3 lbs then a quarter is just about perfect). Feed chicken
for at least a week and in the meantime find deals and sources for
pork, rabbit, beef, goat, etc. After the dogs have adjusted to
chicken, add one other protein to the party. Every week or so add
something new.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "severhaus" <sever@...> wrote:
>
> I sure could use some help with feeding 25- 35 # dogs.
> Linda
>

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

6b. Re: 25-35 # dogs
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:57 pm ((PDT))

I have 3 - what would you like to know?
Christine

severhaus wrote:
>
>
> I sure could use some help with feeding 25- 35 # dogs.
> Linda
>

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

6c. Re: 25-35 # dogs
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:08 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "severhaus" <sever@...> wrote:
>
> I sure could use some help with feeding 25- 35 # dogs.
> Linda
>

Most of mine are in that range. How can I help you?
I feed a pack so I can probably give you some insight on the daily menu planning.

Merril

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Re: ??'s about organ meat and catfish?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:48 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Pam!
Have you tried searing it quickly in a very hot pan in small
bits, cooling a little and tossing the bits to each of them in turn,
as special treats, before or in between mealtimes?

Doing the searing routine with garlic or anchovy paste or something
smelly and flavorful to 'disguise' the taste?

How about cutting liver into bits, then freezing or searing and then
coating with Salmon or Fish Body Oil?

Do they like stuffed Kongs or pupsickles (a yogurt or small plastic
container filled with ice and suspended bits of yummies in it - often
with a chew or bully stick stuck into it)? Add a bits of liver to what
you use to stuff a Kong, then freeze.

How about the 'tough love' mom's approach; "Eat the liver and *then*
you can have your dinner." ? Put the liver down, let them have
10-15-20 minutes to decide to eat it, or not. If not, no dinner,
treats or snacks until next meal, or until the liver is eaten.

What kind of liver have you fed? If chicken, try beef or pork.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> We have been feeding raw for about 4 months now and I have a big
> question about ORGAN MEAT....liver in particular.
>
> My girl lab mix won't touch it with a 10 foot pole !! I have tried
> chopping it into tiny pieces and mixing it into ground meat...giving it
> whole, freezing it......all kinds of ways and she just picks through it
> and spits it out......chicken, beef, pork, lamb, ..EVERYTHING! UGH!
>
> 1) HOW can I get her nutrition level up according to diet if she
> won't touch organ meat? While keeping to the 80/10/10 rule (if at all
> loosely)?
>
> My boy lab mix is pretty good natured about it ....but still gives
> me the "look"...like awwww agaaain !! LOL
<snip>
>
> Thanks in advance...
>
> Pam, Christine & Halo

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: ??'s about organ meat and catfish?
Posted by: "mz_boomer2" mz_boomer2@yahoo.com mz_boomer2
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:58 pm ((PDT))

Hi Giselle !

I love your suggestions.....THANK YOU! ;)

I will give them a shot. Especially the pupsicles and frozen
yogurt.! hmmm never thought of the bullystick ..cool !

I have fed them beef liver and chicken. But I will start implementing
the searing asap and then refreezing right away.

Thanks again
Pam, Christine & Halo

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi, Pam!
>
<snip>

Doing the searing routine with garlic or anchovy paste or something
> smelly and flavorful to 'disguise' the taste?
>
> How about cutting liver into bits, then freezing or searing and then
> coating with Salmon or Fish Body Oil?
>
> Do they like stuffed Kongs or pupsickles (a yogurt or small plastic
> container filled with ice and suspended bits of yummies in it -
often
> with a chew or bully stick stuck into it)? Add a bits of liver to
what
> you use to stuff a Kong, then freeze.
>
> How about the 'tough love' mom's approach; "Eat the liver and *then*
> you can have your dinner." ? Put the liver down, let them have
> 10-15-20 minutes to decide to eat it, or not. If not, no dinner,
> treats or snacks until next meal, or until the liver is eaten.
>
> What kind of liver have you fed? If chicken, try beef or pork.
>
> TC
> Giselle
> with Bea in New Jersey
>
>
> > We have been feeding raw for about 4 months now and I have a
big
> > question about ORGAN MEAT....liver in particular.
> >
> > My girl lab mix won't touch it with a 10 foot pole !! > >
Thanks in advance...
> >
> > Pam, Christine & Halo
>

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: ??'s about organ meat and catfish?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:55 pm ((PDT))

YVW, Pam!
Ooops!

"Do they like stuffed Kongs or pupsickles (a yogurt or small plastic
> > container filled with ice and suspended bits of yummies in it -
> often
> > with a chew or bully stick stuck into it)? Add a bits of liver to
> what
> > you use to stuff a Kong, then freeze."

I *meant* use the EMPTY yogurt container, not one with yogurt in it!
; )

I also stick chicken feets into shallow plastic containers and freeze
with water to make pupsickles. You could use leftover broth, or table
scraps, too, if you feed them. *shrug*

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hi Giselle !
>
> I love your suggestions.....THANK YOU! ;)
>
> I will give them a shot. Especially the pupsicles and frozen
> yogurt.! hmmm never thought of the bullystick ..cool !
>
> I have fed them beef liver and chicken. But I will start implementing
> the searing asap and then refreezing right away.
>
> Thanks again
> Pam, Christine & Halo

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Now what do I do????
Posted by: "Loretta Luja" luja@comcast.net desertwilite
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:16 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Andrea,

I gave the adult a little liver snack this morning to see what
comes of it.

The reason I do feed both dogs the same is only because
they ate the exact same amount when on kibble, so I used
that as a guideline. Katie (14 month old) is thin and I can
count and easily feel every rib on that girl. She was almost
chunky until she hit 11 months and then thinned out. Maybe
normal for her but I do not want her to lose any weight.
Tiggie is a huge houndy-type dog that has a deformed front
leg (hit by a truck) and should stay thin to not aggravate his
mis aligned structure. So even though their weights are not
the same, it seems to me that they should have close to the
same percentage of food.

So now the dilemma. How to keep Tiggies poo moister without
letting him gain weight and also keep Katie's poo firmer without
letting her lose any weight (maybe even gain a pound)

They are now on: the back leg quarter one day and then the
front breast and wing the next, does that seem
too boney? I think it's about the right amount but how then
would I cut back on bone without making the pieces too
small for Tiggie?

Do 14 month old dogs need more than one feeding a day? Or
maybe it would be a good thing to try twice a day until she gets
accustomed to digesting bone better? (I know Tiggie will go through
the roof thinking she is getting more food than him.) Then I
still would end up feeding too small of a piece to be safe wouldn't
I?

Loretta

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

8b. Re: Now what do I do????
Posted by: "Loretta Luja" luja@comcast.net desertwilite
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:18 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Carol.

Funny that since I introduced raw meat to them, they
won't touch veggies or fruit. Maybe I can mix something
in a little ground beef. I have heard of pumkin being good
to use to get things through, but haven't tried it yet. So do
you think that whole chicken is too lean? I feed the skin.
Maybe he would do better with some fatty pork or something?
Does anyone add fat or oil?

Loretta

Carol wrote:
>
>
>
> Try some apple sauce. It's worked for my dog when he's had
> constipation. Just a couple of tablespoons has helped him. I also
> give some cooked carrots. Hey, you do what you gotta do to keep them
> happy. After that, I have to be sure that he gets plenty of fat in
> his meals as he tends to have problems w/too lean of cuts.
>
> Carol
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com>, Loretta Luja <luja@...> wrote:
> >
> > MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > If you've been following my story (problems) You will see that
> > my young dog has runny stool and complains most of the night.
> > Now her older uncle didn't have a movement since sunday when
> > we came completely off of kibble and started on quarter chickens.
> >
> > He tried to have a bowel movement a while ago and came running
> > in the house SCREAMING. He dropped one extremely hard
> > poop that was already turning whitish on one end! So I guess
> > I have 2 dogs at each end of the spectrum.
> >
> > I am guessing that I should give him more meat and less bone,
> > but what to do in the mean time? Is there anything I should do
> > to get these hard as rock poops out so he doesn't scream in pain?
> > He is afraid to go outside now!
> >
> > My younger one had a sloppy but formed movement today but
> > still with obvious bone fragments. Is it normal to have fragments
> > all the time or should I expect her to get better at digesting as
> > time goes on.? (she did sleep most of the night- finally)
> >
> > Sorry for the "poop" questions but I don't know how else to
> > tell if the meat/bone is being tolerated. My husband must be
> > about ready to call the "men in white coats" for me!
> > One dog cries at night and gets diarrhea on the floor and
> > now the other one is running around screaming with rocks
> > coming out the other end!!
> >
> > What should I do?
> >
>
>

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

8c. Re: Now what do I do????
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:19 pm ((PDT))

On Aug 16, 2007, at 10:16 AM, Loretta Luja wrote:

>
> I am guessing that I should give him more meat and less bone,
> but what to do in the mean time? Is there anything I should do
> to get these hard as rock poops out so he doesn't scream in pain?
> He is afraid to go outside now!

Short-term, I'd syringe a tablespoonful of olive oil well up his butt
and stand back. Slightly longer-term, I'd feed him some slippery elm
powder in some milk or broth or whatever he'll drink. As a steady
diet, you've got it right: more meat. You might also try feeding him
some liver or oil right now to soften things, but I think he's just
compacted from not going and needs a blow out.

>
> My younger one had a sloppy but formed movement today but
> still with obvious bone fragments. Is it normal to have fragments
> all the time or should I expect her to get better at digesting as
> time goes on.? (she did sleep most of the night- finally)

This should settle down as time goes on, but even experienced dogs
can produce fragments, depending on how fast the food is going
through. Activity level, stress, or dehydration can all alter the
patterns a bit. Just keep on feeding what you've been advised and let
her stabilize.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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8d. Re: Now what do I do????
Posted by: "Loretta Luja" luja@comcast.net desertwilite
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:32 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Ginny.

He just ran outside after his meal and indeed had a blow out!
It looked soft and a bit runny, but it was a good size and
hopefully made him feel a lot better. Now I will need to figure
out if the compaction was a one time change over reaction
or if I will in general need to keep things meatier.

I think the worst is over for the younger one and I'll just watch
and not add anything to her diet until I'm sure she is happy.

Loretta

Messages in this topic (7)
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________________________________________________________________________

9a. Re: Ginny?
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:19 pm ((PDT))

On Aug 16, 2007, at 12:16 PM, Michael Moore wrote:

> Ginny -- would you mind if I e-mail you privately off list? I have
> a non rawfeeding question for you. Thanks for your consideration.

Of course you can! Please do, and you wouldn't be the first:)

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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9b. Re: Ginny?
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:57 pm ((PDT))

If you are talking to me, Jeni, then sure, go ahead.
Jeni

----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Moore <m-tak@sbcglobal.net>
To: raw list <rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:16:59 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Ginny?

Ginny -- would you mind if I e-mail you privately off list? I have a non rawfeeding question for you. Thanks for your consideration.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Losing Weight & not feeling herself
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:48 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Millie!
I'd make sure the chicken you are feeding isn't enhanced
nor injected with salt solution or flavorings/seasonings. Some dogs,
especially IBD/IBS dogs, don't tolerate these additives.

The amount of bone you are feeding with whole chickens should be
sufficient for your dog. Some IBD/IBS dogs need a bit more or less
bone than recommended for 'normal' dogs. You have to experiment, and
find the balance that works best for your dog. It probably won't be
the same all the time; IBS/IBD dogs sometimes need more or less bone
at different times.

She is still really new to raw, so don't despair.

Add Slippery Elm Bark Powder sprinkled on her meals, and mixed into
ground/chopped chicken in between meals, up to 4-6 times a day.
Slippery Elm Bark Powder will soothe the digestive system while your
dog is adjusting to raw, and you can feed as frequently as necessary
when introducing new proteins and organs, and whenever there is a
flare up due to environmental stress. I order loose SEBP from;
http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/supplements.htm

I mix 1 tsp SEBP per ounce of meat, and mix several days doses at a
time. I use one ounce meatballs as one dose.

I'd start with a fast day; offer plenty of fresh water, and a SEBP
meatball 4-6 times that day. Reintroduce meals the next day, offering
1/2 to 3/4 size meals the next few days, building up to 'regular'
portions. Your dog may do better on smaller, more frequent meals,
maybe 3-4 a day anyway. I'd dose before each meal, and in between
meals for several days, and taper off gradually. You might want to
trim visible fat for those days and also trim off most of the skin and
then trim less and less off each day. Don't worry about feeding
organs, but heart and gizzards are OK.

I'd stick with chicken for a week or more, until you are seeing
better, firmer stools. Then, I'd add a tiny bit (pinky fingernail
sized) of chicken liver to each meal for a week, before moving on to a
new protein.

Probiotics and digestive enzymes are different;
http://www.enzymestuff.com/probiotics.htm#2

I'd use a human grade digestive enzyme. Same for a probiotic, if you
continue to use them. Enzymes should be given with a meal, probiotics
should be given at the end, or in between meals. Your dog may need
either or both, but not necessarily forever. I'd get enteric coated
pills that need to be refrigerated to retain the freshness and
viability of the active ingredients.

Don't be too ready to move on to new proteins. IBD/IBS dogs need more
time to adjust to new meats. You might try turkey, pork (with the skin
and fat removed) or rabbit next. Always introduce organs while feeding
a well tolerated meat. A good way to introduce new proteins or organs
is to add just a small bite to a meal, gradually increasing the amount
of the new protein/organ each day.

Feed 2-3% of her IDEAL adult weight, but divide the daily amount into
3-5 daily meals. Adjust the amount fed per meal and the number of
meals fed per day as needed to increase her weight &/or adjust the
load on her digestive system.

I think you will soon get Sage's IBS/IBD under control, and she'll
then start to show the benefits of raw!

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hey,
> I've been feeding raw since 7/7/07 to my 3.5yr old German/Belgium
> Mix with IBS issues. In the beginning she changed for the better on
> her runny poo to solid poo and not waking us up at night and can hold
> it all day. She can still hold it all day but she is losing weight
> and getting extremely bony, she is acting more lethargic too. She
> still eats every morning and evening and will still play ball outside
> but she has started having really bad gas again and the poo fluctuates
> to semi solid to a little runnier. I feed chicken ALL parts and at
> least 1lb. each meal(more meat than bone), she gets Gizzards every so
> often and I am trying to add Lamb and see how she reacts to that
> protein. She also gets a Probiotic Powder for Digestion. Should I be
> concerned on the weight loss? How do I get her to gain weight? Any
> thoughts would be great!
>
> Thanks,
> Millie & Sage
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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11. Re: new puppy and other questions
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:56 pm ((PDT))

>>The puppy is 7 weeks old. I assumed I would need to grind,
or at least smash, but what I have read says no.<<

Audrey -- my Corgi puppies at 7 wks. could eat chicken parts, bone and all, nothing was ground. I started feeding (I started with chicken bone-in breasts, BTW) them at 5 wks. and kept offering pieces with bone-in until they got the hang of it, then went on to different chicken parts after that. No ned to grind, IMO.

>> One question I have is about organs. If I feed chopped up hens, some of the liver is still attached to the ribs. Since I read that you should only feed very, very small portions, is that OK. I feed a lot of chicken/game hens because they are cheaper, so the dogs may get liver every day.<<

I admit to being casual about organs. I feed them when they come attached to birds, and/or when I think about it. I'm lucky in that my crew can tolerate nice sized pieces of liver, kidney, spleen, whatever. I think in the amount you're talking, it should be fine.

I also order beef heart and try to feed some 3-4 times a week. How much is too much -- for the older dogs and the puppy. I think I have read that heart is very rich. <<

Personally, I think beef heart is a fine muscle meat (and reasonably priced!). You might start out with slightly smaller amounts for the puppy. When I've got lots of heart in the freezer, my adults might get it 4-5 times a week. My puppies have had beef heart 5-6 meals in a row.

>>I also read that when feeding a puppy it is much easier to introduce new foods. Some people fed quite a few new things the first week; others said to feed chicken for the first two weeks. What is right? <<

What is "right" is what works for you and for your dogs. I waited until the puppies were eating all the meat off the chicken bones (at about 6 wks. in the case of my litter), then started introducing "other" foods. By the time they were 8 weeks, they had had chicken, turkey, pork, venison (their favorite!), fish, elk, rabbit, lamb. They never had any issues with anything, and I'm glad I did introduce a sizeable variety early on.

<<I have tried to feed pork to the older dogs, but they always seem to get diarrhea. Do some dogs do this?<<

One of my Corgis gets diarrhea from a boneless pork meal. I give her some bone with it, and she seems to do better that way.

>>Also, when I get whole chickens I was skinning the body because I thought it was too much fat. I leave the skin on the legs and wings. It's a pain to do when I have a lot of them to cut up or halve. Should I be doing that, or leaving the skin on?<<

I never take any skin off unless the dog "tells" me I should. The same Corgi who gets diarrhea from boneless pork occasionally gets a really, really loose stool from chicken with lots of skin on. Sometimes (when I remember), I remove part of the skin from her chicken. My "I-can-eat-anything" garbage disposer Golden happily cleans up what I take off the Corgi's meal.

Good luck with the puppy. I show in conformation, agility, rally obedience, and play at herding and tracking from time to time. Hope your daughter has a blast with the pup in whatever venue she tries!!

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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Messages in this topic (1)
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12a. Processing Tripe
Posted by: "Dawn Ruhl" Dawnofthedanes@mac.com dawnofthedanes
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:57 pm ((PDT))

OK... you won't break the bank, but you WILL break your back. <G>
One stomach will take you about 5-6 hours to process, if you don't know
what you are doing, or have a small grinder.
I process hundreds of lbs of tripe, so I do know what I am talking
about here.....
To clean... cut off any intestines that are hanging. A little is good,
a lot is not. Hose off only the outside of the stomach.
Once that has a chance to dry, you will need a couple of sharp knives
or at
least 2 and a sharpening stone. Tripe dulls a knife very quickly!
It is MUCH easier if you have someone to help and at least hold the
tripe
to cut. It is almost as bad as cutting a car tire! Now, remove any large
clumps of digested grass... I leave the small stuff, and mix well
when done
so that the grass is distributed well within the ground tripe. Unless
you have
a dog who is allergic, then you might want to completely rinse out
the inside.

Now... I have a HUGE single phase grinder that won't fit in the back
of anyone's
mini van... If you don't have one of these $3500. babies, be
prepared to be grinding
for a very long time. A counter top grinder can grind it, but it will
have to be cut up
into very small pieces. Do not force the tripe.... and the thin
membrane along some
pieces can and will clog up and stop the grinder. Turn it off
immediately and take
apart the grinder and remove the membrane.
Good luck Frankie!
Let us know how you make out!

~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~~;*;~
Processing Tripe
Posted by: "doguenanny" Dixie4911@aol.com doguenanny
Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:06 pm (PST)

I was lucky enough today to meet someone who raises cattle and pigs,
and processes his own meat. He told me he would give me the cow
stomachs. I'm so excited about this. I will be able to feed tripe more
often to my dogs (I have 10 dogs) without breaking the bank!

My only problem is I don't know the first thing about processing
tripe. I feed green tripe, but it's already cleaned and cut or
ground. What do I do with it? What kind of cutting equipment will I
need for it? Can anyone tell me what I'll have to do? I don't even
know what it's going to look like; I imagine it's going to smell pretty
nasty. HELP! LOL

Frankie

Laus Deo!
~;*;~ Dawn ~;*;~
http://dawnofthedanes.com

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Messages in this topic (10)
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13.1. new to raw feeding
Posted by: "Mick" cowsinsin@yahoo.com cowsinsin
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:17 pm ((PDT))

I would like to start feeding my dogs raw food. Can anyone give me a list of foods to use?

---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (45)
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13.2. Re: new to raw feeding
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:33 pm ((PDT))

Mick,
This is a prey model site, so you should read the info you were sent when you signed up., do some research and get a couple of books. If you go online, you can see some menu selections, at www.rawmeatybones.com, and get Tom Lonsdales, book, Work Wonders, it will help you alot.
For starters, you want to stick with one source of meat for a few weeks, we usually recommend chicken. It's cheap and has everything you need, meat, bones, and organs, if you buy it whole. And you can do this for several weeks without any worries. Once you know this is working without any complications, you can change it up by adding in a different source of protien, like pork, beef, or lamb, emu, there are all kinds of meat you can use to give your animals some variety and a little spice of life. But to start, you should use just one source, and keep it simple, that's why it is always recommended to use chicken, you can get it everywhere, and it's cheap.:)
Goodluck, and do the reading, it's quick and simple. Use the menu sections, that is always fun.
Keep us posted, and welcome, remember to tell us what kind of animals you have, and how many, we love to know the details:)
Jeni
Owned, operated, and often tricked by my two sibblings, Zeus and Zena, great danes, and Daisy our little pomchi, who thinks she's a Rotty, and Lucky, the cat, he's just lucky he's not dinner!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (45)
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14a. Re: vet says Yeay to rawfeeding
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:13 pm ((PDT))

<<...But, when used in the B*RF way of feeding it usually means mostly
inedible bones...>>

Giselle, I was the one that mentioned RMB in my original post of "vet says Yeay to rawfeeding" but I didn't meat the type of bones the B*RFers use. I actually meant raw meaty bones, meat and bones together. Sorry for the confusiong. I just meant meat with the bone IN.

Ivette Casiano
"Live for today, plan for tomorrow"

---------------------------------
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Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11917

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: how can i entice my dog to eat organs?
From: pelirojita

2. Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
From: tapremium2002

3a. Re: vet says Yeay to rawfeeding
From: tottime47

4a. Re: weight of food or feeding small dogs
From: swilken61
4b. Re: weight of food or feeding small dogs
From: delcaste

5a. New Puppy and Other Questions
From: ajgregis
5b. Re: New Puppy and Other Questions
From: Andrea

6a. Finding expired meats
From: siamesekittens4u@aol.com
6b. Re: Finding expired meats
From: Loretta Luja
6c. Finding expired meats
From: Carol
6d. Re: Finding expired meats
From: delcaste

7a. Now what do I do????
From: Loretta Luja
7b. Re: Now what do I do????
From: Carol
7c. Re: Now what do I do????
From: Andrea

8a. Re: New Here - Looking to start feeding a raw diet to my yorkie.
From: Yasuko herron

9a. Re: Suburban rabbits?
From: Carol

10. Ginny?
From: Michael Moore

11. ??'s about organ meat and catfish?
From: mz_boomer2

12. Losing Weight & not feeling herself
From: spicemother

13. Lamb and Goat
From: rocketblasther

14a. Re: Swift Tribe Questions (lengthy)
From: Ash

15. freeze first?
From: ekayke

16. 25-35 # dogs
From: severhaus

17. Ok, update from new Raw feeder
From: charlesmdodson

18. kibble smell
From: outcats4@aol.com

Messages
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1a. Re: how can i entice my dog to eat organs?
Posted by: "pelirojita" kerrymurray7@gmail.com pelirojita
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:00 am ((PDT))

My 9 year-old Golden is quite finicky (though getting better after
almost 7 weeks rawfeeding), while my lab mix usually eats anything and
everything put in front of him. Both turned up their noses to chicken
liver at room temperature. When I served it frozen, per advice on
this list, the Golden ate the frozen chicken liver first and then
moved on to the rest of her meal. I almost fell over in shock.

My dogs seem quite partial to frozen or only partially thawed food of
all flavors. Maybe because it's hot here, but they are also both big
time chewers who love to just lay down and gnaw on something. Try
freezing the organs.

Kerry
Tucson, AZ
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sheryl Edelen <sophiiblu@...> wrote:
>
> One of my dogs, Faith is notoriously finicky when it comes to
organs; she definitely doesn't like the thawed, I think the squishy,
wiggly texture grosses her out. And her being really hungry also
helps, but I just sprinkle a bit of parmesan cheese on there and she
usually at least nibbles. Worked for my cat, Robert Earl as well,
before he decided he would eat anything put in front of him. Try it.
>
> Sheryl Edelen
> Co-moderator, If Pits & Rotts Could Talk
> ï¿½People think responsibility is hard to bear. It's not. I think that
sometimes it is the absence of responsibility that is harder to bear.
You have a great feeling of impotence.ï¿½ - Henry Kissinger
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
Yahoo! FareChase.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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2. Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets
Posted by: "tapremium2002" tapremium2002@yahoo.com tapremium2002
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:00 am ((PDT))

Hi all, I am new to the raw food idea for cats/dogs. I have been going
towards more natural products and care for me and my horses.

Has anyone tried Nature's Variety Raw Food Diets? How many medallions
would a cat eat? I have no interest in preparing raw food, too gross
for me so this looked like a good alternative.

-Kimber T

Messages in this topic (1)
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3a. Re: vet says Yeay to rawfeeding
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:00 am ((PDT))

Hi Patty,

No thanks needed, I'm still a newbie too!
Only been at it 6 mos.

In that time I've learned so many things here, but
I'm smart enough to know I still have plenty to learn!

I'm just thankful we have such patient people
to help us.

Just remember, feed mostly meat, as much variety as you can
afford add a little organs and bone and you'll be OK!

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Patty Reid"
<pattyannreidster@...> wrote:
>
> Thankyou! You can sure tell how new I am to this!
>
> Patty

Messages in this topic (7)
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4a. Re: weight of food or feeding small dogs
Posted by: "swilken61" powrfemme@aol.com swilken61
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:01 am ((PDT))

Thanks for all the replys. I actually was trying to find previous posts
because I thought there would be good info in them but I couldn't find
them. I tried a search because I didn't want to keep going backwards
but that didn't give me results. Maybe I'm searching in the wrong area.

I'm pretty sure my 10 pound girl would not self regulate. She was
rescued, found initially roaming the streets, so she used to fending
for herself and she has never left food. My 15 pound girl probably
would, she sometimes doesn't eat at all. Although not so much now that
we have switched from kibble to raw. She seems to like it better :).

Stephany

Messages in this topic (7)
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4b. Re: weight of food or feeding small dogs
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:09 pm ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:TRIM YOUR MAILS, PLEASE! THIS ONE WAS TRIMMED FOR YOU!

Hello Carol! yes you've helped me. I don't have self-regulators more
like vacumm cleaners :) I usually feed an entire drumstick but I also
give them a little bit of organs with it so their poop is firm
but "nice." If only my neighbors could watch me on "poop patrol." But
I think I may try your way. Thanks for the tip.

Silvina and the pugs

Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. New Puppy and Other Questions
Posted by: "ajgregis" ajgregis@yahoo.com ajgregis
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:01 am ((PDT))

I have been feeding raw for a little over a year. Haven't been on
the list for a while, but reading the posts months ago caused me to
drop the veggies and supplements I was feeding. A BIG relief to me
AND the dogs (Watson, a 12yo Lab; and Ginger, my son's 3yo mini-
Dachshund). So, now my daughter is getting a new English Springer
Spaniel. I've known the breeder for years. She and her sister have
raised Springer's for years. Her sister was the handler that showed
Rufus. But she doesn't feed raw -- and I am hoping to maybe change
her. She knows I feed raw, doesn't have a problem with it, and I
think she may be figuring she will just watch how the puppy does.
She'll see her occasionally, because she owns a grooming salon and
has suggested to my daughter she may want to show her puppy. My
daughter is a no-frills girl who wants to do agility, so I don't
know if that will ever happen.

I have read over some of the achives about puppy feeding and from
what I am reading I don't do anything different from what I am
doing. The puppy is 7 weeks old. I assumed I would need to grind,
or at least smash, but what I have read says no. I was going to
start with game hens (we have a poultry supplier close by so I can
get things in quantity cheaper). One question I have is about
organs. If I feed chopped up hens, some of the liver is still
attached to the ribs. Since I read that you should only feed very,
very small portions, is that OK. I feed a lot of chicken/game hens
because they are cheaper, so the dogs may get liver every day. Is
what is on the ribs too much? I also order beef heart and try to
feed some 3-4 times a week. How much is too much -- for the older
dogs and the puppy. I think I have read that heart is very rich.

I also read that when feeding a puppy it is much easier to introduce
new foods. Some people fed quite a few new things the first week;
others said to feed chicken for the first two weeks. What is
right? I have tried to feed pork to the older dogs, but they always
seem to get diarrhea. Do some dogs do this? We do have a farmer's
market not too far away that has several butcher stands which I have
never seemed to find the time to get to. It's on my to-do list
tomorrow.

Also, when I get whole chickens I was skinning the body because I
thought it was too much fat. I leave the skin on the legs and
wings. It's a pain to do when I have a lot of them to cut up or
halve. Should I be doing that, or leaving the skin on?

And, what about salmon oil capsules? I can't afford grass fed --
should I be adding that? The dogs seem to be doing great, but I
didn't know if not adding it was going to create a problem down the
road.

I know, lots of questions. But I was becoming blurry-eyed from
reading previous posts. I guess I just need someone to hold my
hand. I'm an almost divorced single mom w/ 3 children running in
several directions, and I don't want to create anymore problems than
I already have!!

Thanks for any input -- especially about the puppy feeding.

Audrey
York, PA

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: New Puppy and Other Questions
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:08 pm ((PDT))

> I have been feeding raw for a little over a year.

Hi, Audrey and welcome!

> I assumed I would need to grind, or at least smash, but what I have
> read says no.

Right, pups will surprise you. Those little teeth are really sharp,
and allowing the pup to work out its own meals gets them nice and
tired!

> If I feed chopped up hens, some of the liver is still attached to
> the ribs. Since I read that you should only feed very, very small
> portions, is that OK.

Those bits of organs will be fine, especially with a pup.

> the dogs may get liver every day. Is what is on the ribs too
> much?

Nope, it's fine.

> I also order beef heart and try to feed some 3-4 times a week. How
> much is too much -- for the older dogs and the puppy.

Beef heart is a great cheap red meat, I would only say you fed too
much if the dog's bowels say it's too much.

> I also read that when feeding a puppy it is much easier to
> introduce new foods.

In my experience, this is very true. For both of my pups I fed one
protein only for the first week and then started adding in new
things. Sometimes I would get too andventurous and add three new
things in a week only to be rewarded with cannon butt and weapons
grade gas. Truth be told, I was the only one suffering, the pup
never seemed uncomfortable. I'd say start slow and see how the
little one does.

> I have tried to feed pork to the older dogs, but they always
> seem to get diarrhea.

Do you feed a whole meal of pork? You might need to add in some pork
meat to a regular meal and slowly work your way up.

> I leave the skin on the legs and wings. It's a pain to do when I
> have a lot of them to cut up or halve. Should I be doing that, or
> leaving the skin on?

I'd say try leaving the skin on and see what happens. If your dogs
don't have digestive issues you've eliminated a lot of work!

> And, what about salmon oil capsules?

I try to give the boys a few fish oil capsules a day. Geiger has an
allergic reaction to all things soy, so finding capsules for him is
an effort. Some of us are really good about adding fish oil, some
don't do it at all. Unless your dogs have a dry coat or skin I
wouldn't stress about adding it. And if you decide to add some oil,
fish body oil is just as good as salmon oil IMO (just make sure you
don't get Cod Liver Oil). Good luck.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Finding expired meats
Posted by: "siamesekittens4u@aol.com" siamesekittens4u@aol.com jae91254
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:23 am ((PDT))

My son works at WalMart (in management, and I can't even get the out dated
meats), their policy is to discard out dated products. By discard it goes in
big bins and no doubt goes to rendering plants to make K....e
Joyce

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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6b. Re: Finding expired meats
Posted by: "Loretta Luja" luja@comcast.net desertwilite
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:26 am ((PDT))

@Kris wrote:
>
> I have been to my local stores in Kennesaw, GA Publix, Kroger, Costco,
> Walmart, even butcher. None are willing to sell expired meats because
> of liabilty is what I was told. Walmart will discout their meat the
> day b4 it expires
>

I used to work at a restaurant and it was the same way there. We were
threatened
to get fired if we took anything home that was to be thrown out,
including buckets
full of turkey necks and homemade pies with one piece taken out!! Some of us
would sneak it out anyway, but that was a long time ago.

Loretta L
> .
>
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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6c. Finding expired meats
Posted by: "Carol" onejoyfulmoose@yahoo.com onejoyfulmoose
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:06 pm ((PDT))

I believe there a number of federal and state laws pertaining to
expired foods and food not eaten in restaurants. If they want to keep
their licenses from the health depts, etc. they must obey and really
don't have a choice in the matter. Though I know a couple local stores
that have set things up with local food banks to feed the homeless, but
they give them food that has not hit the expiration date, but maybe a
day before. Also, they were not part of a chain, i.e. Wal-Mart. I do
know that in a flood area any food in grocery stores must be thrown
away even if they didn't get under the flood level. This has to do
with contamination from the water itself. You just never know what is
in it. Here again, it's all governed by Federal & State Health Dept
Regulations.

Carol

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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6d. Re: Finding expired meats
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:08 pm ((PDT))

> I once found expired meat at a grocery and asked about selling at a
> reduced price - explaining that I make my own pet food - and was told
> that have a policy not to mark down but throw out meats to avoid
> liability. They wouldn't even at the marked price. Is this the
> typical response?
>
>
> --
> K. Gordon Crawford

I'm in Florida and when I asked about selling expired meat, etc., they
wouldn't. The manager told me that a truck comes every morning to pick
up meat and parts that can't be sold.

Silvina

Messages in this topic (9)
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7a. Now what do I do????
Posted by: "Loretta Luja" luja@comcast.net desertwilite
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:23 am ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!

Hi all,

If you've been following my story (problems) You will see that
my young dog has runny stool and complains most of the night.
Now her older uncle didn't have a movement since sunday when
we came completely off of kibble and started on quarter chickens.

He tried to have a bowel movement a while ago and came running
in the house SCREAMING. He dropped one extremely hard
poop that was already turning whitish on one end! So I guess
I have 2 dogs at each end of the spectrum.

I am guessing that I should give him more meat and less bone,
but what to do in the mean time? Is there anything I should do
to get these hard as rock poops out so he doesn't scream in pain?
He is afraid to go outside now!

My younger one had a sloppy but formed movement today but
still with obvious bone fragments. Is it normal to have fragments
all the time or should I expect her to get better at digesting as
time goes on.? (she did sleep most of the night- finally)

Sorry for the "poop" questions but I don't know how else to
tell if the meat/bone is being tolerated. My husband must be
about ready to call the "men in white coats" for me!
One dog cries at night and gets diarrhea on the floor and
now the other one is running around screaming with rocks
coming out the other end!!

What should I do?

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: Now what do I do????
Posted by: "Carol" onejoyfulmoose@yahoo.com onejoyfulmoose
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:09 pm ((PDT))

Try some apple sauce. It's worked for my dog when he's had
constipation. Just a couple of tablespoons has helped him. I also
give some cooked carrots. Hey, you do what you gotta do to keep them
happy. After that, I have to be sure that he gets plenty of fat in
his meals as he tends to have problems w/too lean of cuts.

Carol

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Loretta Luja <luja@...> wrote:
>
> MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> If you've been following my story (problems) You will see that
> my young dog has runny stool and complains most of the night.
> Now her older uncle didn't have a movement since sunday when
> we came completely off of kibble and started on quarter chickens.
>
> He tried to have a bowel movement a while ago and came running
> in the house SCREAMING. He dropped one extremely hard
> poop that was already turning whitish on one end! So I guess
> I have 2 dogs at each end of the spectrum.
>
> I am guessing that I should give him more meat and less bone,
> but what to do in the mean time? Is there anything I should do
> to get these hard as rock poops out so he doesn't scream in pain?
> He is afraid to go outside now!
>
> My younger one had a sloppy but formed movement today but
> still with obvious bone fragments. Is it normal to have fragments
> all the time or should I expect her to get better at digesting as
> time goes on.? (she did sleep most of the night- finally)
>
> Sorry for the "poop" questions but I don't know how else to
> tell if the meat/bone is being tolerated. My husband must be
> about ready to call the "men in white coats" for me!
> One dog cries at night and gets diarrhea on the floor and
> now the other one is running around screaming with rocks
> coming out the other end!!
>
> What should I do?
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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7c. Re: Now what do I do????
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:16 pm ((PDT))

For the adult with rock hard poos, you hit the nail on the head with
feeding more meat. In the meantime, you can give him some slippery
elm to try and soothe the digestive track. You can also give him
some raw egg or liver to try and lube things up, but don't go
overboard, just one egg a day or a very small amount of liver.

Bits of undigested bone in poo are not unusual with newbie dogs.
After a little while I expect you'll stop seeing them. Are you
feeding the dogs the same meals? The pup may be eating too much in
one sitting, try cutting back into several small meals. Hope that
helps, don't get discouraged, ok?

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Loretta Luja <luja@...> wrote:

> I am guessing that I should give him more meat and less bone,
> but what to do in the mean time? Is there anything I should do
> to get these hard as rock poops out so he doesn't scream in pain?
> He is afraid to go outside now!
>
> My younger one had a sloppy but formed movement today but
> still with obvious bone fragments. Is it normal to have fragments
> all the time or should I expect her to get better at digesting as
> time goes on.?

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: New Here - Looking to start feeding a raw diet to my yorkie.
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:02 pm ((PDT))

>I have a 1 year old 4lb yorkie named Morgan. I'm just worried about giving her bones >because she is so small and i have no concept about how much to feed her and how big >the bones need to be so she won't choke on them.

Hi,Kellie. You hear a lot from especially Vet that giving bone isdangerous but,what is dangerous is COOKED bone,not raw bone.

I don't lie about I too was bit nervous on my first feeding day because I got used to see my dog eats kibble.

But,no worry. The bone in chucken is quite soft so,I think even little dog can handle it since little tiny chiwawa owners are feeding raw as well and seems no problems.

How much to feedis 2-3% of ideal weight and, how big the bone should be.. I made my own rule that I don't feed smaller than muzzel like 1 inch size pork chop bone or cutted ox tail bone on grocery store or drummit.

My dog is about 30lb so,much bigger than yours but, I think you can do same with me just smaller portion than mine.

Here,people recommend 80% meat,10% bone,10% organ(liver,kidney).

That is a goal but you don't need to feed organ right away.

Slowly and steady with patient works better. So,try one thing at a time.Always add only 1 new thing because that way,you can detect what was problem with your dog.

You can go to grocerystore,and buy whole Cornish hen or chiocken (not enhanced one),and cut with poultry scissor to your dog meal portion .

Then,feed it till you think your dog is doing well on hen or chicken, and then you can move on to other protin source like beef or just like me, you can do 1 st week of raw feeding, chicken only and second week,chicken with chicken's organ,and then 3rd week,move onto beef or something and half chicken,half beef,and chicken organ,for example.

There is no set in stone rule like what you need to feed next so,you decide.

For organs, if you buy whole poultry,you get 1 piece of liver,heart,neck etc inside the bird,so,you can keep it for second week and feed it and if it is gone and if your dog doing great,then,you can get chicken liver tab for example at grocerystore 1lb 1 dollar and you make variety from there for organ variety.

My case, after introducing beef,I introduced Beef organ(liver,kidney) so,I was on Beef 2 weeks or less I think,but it is just me. You can do whatever you think it comfortable.

AsS for choking worry,you need to supervise your dog while eating. I never leave my dog alone with meal.

>It isn't a good diet to keep her on and that she needs more variety.
Yes,but you don't need to move on to other protin source right away. Steady slow is always was good for me. You can add anything you want in variety later.

>I figure whole fish would be easy but i don't know which types of fish are good for her.

For fish,avoid Salmon and TRout from Pacific North west ;CA to alaska line due salmon poisoning.

You can cheat mine tho..

I have fed perch,Haddock,Mahi mahi,Shark, squid,scallop,shrimp,clam, flounder,rocket fish etc..

If you could find herring,sardine,anchovi,jack mackerral, it is super great.

When I don't find whole fish,I feed fillet and give chicken feet.

You can feed canned salmon,canned mackerral,canned sardine in water as well.

> And can i get organ's at the supermarket???

I have got chicken gizzard and chicken liver and sliced beef liver from grocerystore before.

Good boneless meat other than steak/roast are Heart/tongue.

You can get beef tongue at shoppers if you have it near you andasian market is also good source too.

But for now, concentrate just 1 simple diet.Try chicken or cornish hen to start with.No organ needed at very first.If you introduce new stuff too soon ,you get your dog upset tummy.

Good luck!

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (8)
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9a. Re: Suburban rabbits?
Posted by: "Carol" onejoyfulmoose@yahoo.com onejoyfulmoose
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:08 pm ((PDT))

I would appreciate any opinions, right now I won't feed them because
I'm not sure. I know freezing takes care of parasites, but it won't do
a darned thing for toxins....
>
> Thanks!
>
> Sonja
>

Sonja, I don't know about the chemicals, but wild rabbits even those
living in suburbs, get worms at certain times of the years, that's why
hunting season is regulated to only certain times of the year. I
wouldn't hesitate to feed the wild rabbits that were obtained during
the normal hunting season. Maybe someone else has more info than I do
on the worm issues.
Carol, Moose & joy

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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10. Ginny?
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:04 pm ((PDT))

Ginny -- would you mind if I e-mail you privately off list? I have a non rawfeeding question for you. Thanks for your consideration.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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11. ??'s about organ meat and catfish?
Posted by: "mz_boomer2" mz_boomer2@yahoo.com mz_boomer2
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:07 pm ((PDT))

Hi there!

I want to thank EVERYONE first off for all of your wonderful
support, knowledge, and advice since we have started this new and
wonderful journey on this diet!!!

We have been feeding raw for about 4 months now and I have a big
question about ORGAN MEAT....liver in particular.

My girl lab mix won't touch it with a 10 foot pole !! I have tried
chopping it into tiny pieces and mixing it into ground meat...giving it
whole, freezing it......all kinds of ways and she just picks through it
and spits it out......chicken, beef, pork, lamb, ..EVERYTHING! UGH!

1) HOW can I get her nutrition level up according to diet if she
won't touch organ meat? While keeping to the 80/10/10 rule (if at all
loloosely)?

My boy lab mix is pretty good natured about it ....but still gives
me the "look"...like awwww agaaain !! LOL

I don't mess around too much with what I give them or change around
too much..other than alternating protein sources a couple of times a
week. I just give them straight raw cuts of common varieties...my girl
does prefers to start off frozen, though, with whatever she eats. I try
to just keep it as simple as possible.

I keep them both supplemented with salmon oil and have properly
introduced raw fish (like tilapia...easiest and cheapest to
find)..incidently which they LOVE as treats...I am trying to stick to
the "fresh-water-fish-rule" only.

2) Is catfish ok to give? ...I know that this is a "bottom feeding"
fish and was a little concerned about whatever they ingested would
effect my dogs in some way.

Thanks in advance...

Pam, Christine & Halo

Messages in this topic (1)
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12. Losing Weight & not feeling herself
Posted by: "spicemother" spicemother@yahoo.com spicemother
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:08 pm ((PDT))

Hey,
I've been feeding raw since 7/7/07 to my 3.5yr old German/Belgium
Mix with IBS issues. In the beginning she changed for the better on
her runny poo to solid poo and not waking us up at night and can hold
it all day. She can still hold it all day but she is losing weight
and getting extremly boney, she is acting more lethargic too. She
still eats every morning and evening and will still play ball outside
but she has started having really bad gas again and the poo fluctuates
to semi solid to a little runnier. I feed chicken ALL parts and at
least 1lb. each meal(more meat than bone), she gets Gizzards every so
often and I am trying to add Lamb and see how she reacts to that
protein. She also gets a Probiotic Powder for Digestion. Should I be
concerned on the weight loss? How do I get her to gain weight? Any
thoughts would be great!

Thanks,
Millie & Sage

Messages in this topic (1)
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13. Lamb and Goat
Posted by: "rocketblasther" jforbes05@sbcglobal.net rocketblasther
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:08 pm ((PDT))

What are some good food choices from Lamb and Goat. I would would like
to add more of this for my dog, but I don't know what to ask for.
Also, is bone gristle good for dogs? I've been feedind my GSD pork rib
tips and some time they have a lot of bone gristle in it.

Thanks,
Jim & Sara

Messages in this topic (1)
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14a. Re: Swift Tribe Questions (lengthy)
Posted by: "Ash" want4rain@yahoo.com want4rain
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:09 pm ((PDT))

also, i was wondering about sea food?? shrimp or lobster?? if the cats
will eat that, whats the benefit? i know oyster falls under the organ
meat category. what abotu the rest of it?

-ashley

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15. freeze first?
Posted by: "ekayke" ekayke@yahoo.com ekayke
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:51 pm ((PDT))

hi there. i'm new here and am gathering info about how to feed raw. is
it always necessary to freeze meet before feeding to dogs? if i buy a
whole, unfrozen chicken from the market, would i need to freeze it
before feeding? if not, is it only "wild" meats that need to be frozen
first? thanks.
kay

Messages in this topic (1)
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16. 25-35 # dogs
Posted by: "severhaus" sever@datasync.com severhaus
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:51 pm ((PDT))

I sure could use some help with feeding 25- 35 # dogs.
Linda

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17. Ok, update from new Raw feeder
Posted by: "charlesmdodson" charlesmdodson@yahoo.com charlesmdodson
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:52 pm ((PDT))

Hello,

Thanks to all who assisted with their posts yesterday and
today. I just wanted to give an update to the meats. Yesterday I
posted that I had chicken quarters, turkey necks, pigs feet, and some
liver/egg. Well, I went to the store today and bought the following:

- pork shoulder
- whole chickens (with all inerts)
- beef livers
- tripe

I still have some of the following left over:

- chicken quarters
- raw eggs

I was cutting Sherman's food intake in three portions spread out
over the day but I understand I dont need to do this at seven months
of age? He is 7 months and 70 lbs (Doberman). I have been feeding
him about 3 lbs of meat per day total. More or less? Feed twice per
day? Thanks...

Also, I understand tripe is a popular favorite among dogs. Any
advice on how much to feed? I'm sure its considered organ since its
a stomach right?

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18. kibble smell
Posted by: "outcats4@aol.com" outcats4@aol.com barb5ducks
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:54 pm ((PDT))

I was feeding kibble, canidae, then went to the volhard diet, and now am
doing mostly raw. I did buy a bag of natures variety instinct and thought I
could save some time as I have been either running out of food or the cost is
getting to me - (I havent been terribly organized with fixing his meals).
Anyway, I opened the bag, and maybe because Ive been away from kibble for a few
months, but the smell is really foul. Im sure the food is okay, its just how
it smells to me now. I think I'll skip the kibble. I do buy natures variety
raw medallions on occasion.

barb

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