[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12041

There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: update on Molly - she's home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: Sandee Lee
1b. Re: update on Molly - she's home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: Sandee Lee
1c. Re: update on Molly - she's home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

2a. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
From: Morledzep@aol.com
2c. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
From: Howard Salob

3a. raw diet and kidney failure
From: schreierlori@aol.com
3b. Re: raw diet and kidney failure
From: Elizabeth

4a. Re: Tried to feed raw diet today.. NO LUCK
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
4b. Re: Tried to feed raw diet today.. NO LUCK
From: Giselle

5a. Raw Fed Dog Videos!
From: lily_allyn
5b. Re: Raw Fed Dog Videos!
From: Scott Baker

6a. Re: How to start a 6 year old on raw feed?
From: Giselle

7a. Re: regurgitating
From: piperspetsittingservice

8. meant 104
From: moemahood@aol.com

Messages
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1a. Re: update on Molly - she's home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:37 pm ((PDT))

Hi Trish,

Glad to hear she is home. Have you ever done a search in the archives about
feeding a dog with pancreatitis? We have discussed this many times...I know
one of the moderators, Karen, has gone through pancreatitis, EPI and various
other diseases and successfully fed a raw diet.

The key seems to be multiple small meals, low fat and low bone content to
begin with and the addition of a prescription strength pancreatic enzyme.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Trish" <trishwelham@hotmail.com>

She is on a prescription diet, which I know you all probably don't
agree with, but right now we are so on edge I think if the vet asked
us to dance a hula while she was eating we would do it.

I still would appreciate hearing any success stories of recovery from
extreme cases of pancreatitis.

Messages in this topic (16)
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1b. Re: update on Molly - she's home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:41 pm ((PDT))

Trish,

Here are a few messages from the archives to get you started.....

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/122181
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/122224
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/91117
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/60393
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/88618

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Trish" <trishwelham@hotmail.com>

I still would appreciate hearing any success stories of recovery from
extreme cases of pancreatitis.

Messages in this topic (16)
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1c. Re: update on Molly - she's home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:23 am ((PDT))

Trish,
Glad to hear your baby is home, and I'm sure there will be people on this site who have dogs with this ailment that can help you tailor a diet to her needs. When you are ready, for now, just relax. Take your time, and enjoy her while you can, it's ok to do what you have to now, (the hula) and what you need to do will come later. Good that she's home and they gave you a break on the price, that's rare.:) and send them a thank you card, they need to know it's appreciated.
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (16)
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2a. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:50 pm ((PDT))

Howard Salob <itiskismet1968@...> wrote:
> My experience is that the most finicky dogs cannot resist green
tripe. It is like candy to them, but it is good for them. Other
sources besides my experience are www.dogaware.com and

www.greentripe.com.

*****
Green tripe is not a miracle food but it certainly does seem to
appeal to dogs, which is a good thing. My guestion is not about the
utility of green tripe but rather what feeding it has to do with a
dog figuring out how to eat whole raw meat. I don't think there's
much of a relationship between the two foods.

However, if you were suggesting tripe to feed an otherwise "starving"
dog I can see your point. I myself however would not necessarily
consider a successful tripe meal a precusor to anything but another
tripe meal or perhaps some other bowl food. If the goal is to get
the dog eating whole raw meats, it seems reasonable that the whole
raw meat in question should be part of the feeding experience.

Which would explain why people have been suggesting ways to increase
interest in the chicken or to increase the palatability of the
chicken.

But as I said, perhaps I have gotten the issues confused.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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2b. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:20 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/15/2007 8:51:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Chriso75@AOL.COM writes:

However, if you were suggesting tripe to feed an otherwise "starving"
dog I can see your point. I myself however would not necessarily
consider a successful tripe meal a precusor to anything but another
tripe meal or perhaps some other bowl food. If the goal is to get
the dog eating whole raw meats, it seems reasonable that the whole
raw meat in question should be part of the feeding experience.


***green tripe was useful in getting Merlin to eat raw food when he was brand
new.. but he had had some serious counter raw training by someone who seems
to have used force..

he's over that now though.. but he still doesn't counter surf like the other
dogs do.. lol.

if it helps.. we fed him green tripe by itself, just trying to get SOMETHING
in him after several days of trying to get him to eat. the second meal we put
a turkey drummette in the green tripe (he didn't eat the turkey at all).
then we tried hunks o beef.. still nothing. So we smeared the green tripe all
over the outside of a hunk o beef and he ate it all. we did that for 3 meals
because we knew he would eat it and he hadn't eaten much in nearly a week by
that time.

then we went back to the turkey drummettes, i cut the meat away from the bone
but left it hanging on to the bone and then rubbed it with green tripe way
down into the meat and around the bone. And we finally got him to eat bone.. so
that's what he got for 3 more meals.

then we tried just a turkey drummette with no green tripe and no cutting..
low and behold, he had figured it out.. he ate 3 in one meal.. lol.

so.. if the other simple things like garlic or parmesan cheese and searing
don't work.. green tripe IS an alternative to getting a stubborn dog, or one
who's had serious aversion training to eat.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (10)
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2c. Re: cairn puppy won't eat raw
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:06 am ((PDT))

Dear Chris,

Green tripe is a great way to introduce dogs to eating raw foods(meat).As with articles from this site and others the wolf like qualities of a dog, a wolf would go for the stomach and intestines first when feeding. Green tripe is the stomach lining of a cow. There are many digestive enzymes as well as other nutrients that are beneficial for a dog. I started with tripe for my dog and have branched out with other raw food afterwards. I think it is a great starter food into raw as well as being very healthy for my dog. My dog has a kidney issue and the website www.dogaware.com has helped with it. I would like you to read the article- (look up kidney disease and its info). Other good info was www.greentripe.com. I am sure I sent this out to you on last e-mail. Did you have a chance to review the info? I have learned alot from this site and will keep learning. Only wanted to share what has helped me and help someone else. I do not know if this has cleared up your questions.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Sincerely,

Howard

costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote:
Dave Brown <quahog@...> wrote:
>
> Green tripe (i.e. unbleached, lightly washed) is the filet mignon of
> organ meats.
*****
Well maybe not. And it's hardly an organ meat. No question that a
reliable bingo treat is a major score but I don't see the connection
between eating green tripe and eating whole raw foods. Are you saying
that green tripe will convince a reluctant dog to eat whole raw meats,
or are you simply suggesting green tripe as an alternative to not
eating anything?

Perhaps I am simply (and yet again) confused.
Chris O

---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

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Messages in this topic (10)
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3a. raw diet and kidney failure
Posted by: "schreierlori@aol.com" schreierlori@aol.com lorischreier
Date: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:52 pm ((PDT))

If anyone else has experience with kidney issues who can help I thought I
would post Haley's lab results.
BUN 73 and Creatinine 3.6 which then were reduced to 56 and 3 after a full
day of saline IV. Both were based on non-fasting blood tests

. The in-house urinanalysis (which means they hand wrote the results) the
same day as the second blood test and found a bacterial infection and gave me
an antibiotic which I gave her for 10 days. The specific gravity which was
1.026

So far I have contacted a wholistic vet who gave her supplements I am
planning to introduce green tripe.

to her now homecooked diet.
Lori


Lori Schreier and James Warren

Fertile Fields Farm

Growing Food with Gratitude
916 River Road
Westmoreland, NH 03467
(603) 399-7772

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Re: raw diet and kidney failure
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:22 am ((PDT))

It would also be worth it to check out this interesting article from
Wysong regarding high protein diets and kidney failure:
http://www.wysong.net/hpkidney.shtml

-Liz

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: Tried to feed raw diet today.. NO LUCK
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:22 am ((PDT))

Don't give up on the dog, he can go a few days, and the chicken is a good start, it should be just chicken for a few weeks. I give pigs feet for chewing as a thing to keep the dogs busy, they are still puppies here, so need alot to chew on. Chicken is more of a meal though. If they ate the boneless skinless chicken...
THEY ARE EATING RAW, so you're doing it. Now, get a whole chicken, and you're doing it better:) He can have a half or a quarter of a chicken and eat the bones too:)
On the cat, you have to leave out food for it, it can have medical problems if you don't, you can't starve it into raw like you can a dog, and remember, your dog is now on raw, so keep the cat food up high now. And try some ground chicken, and tuna, or turkey, for the cat, keep trying but always leave out a backup food for him, only in small amounts, so he is more willing to try the new stuff, but always remember, until he is totally into the new stuff he HAS to have food, or medical crud will happen. It just does. Don't buy anything expensive, cats are really finicky, so try small amounts of things until you find something it likes, and don't be surprised if he eats one thing for a while and then all of a sudden, stops. Cats are weird, mine is still a mystery, and we're still fighting it out. He's half way there, but I'm just as stuborn as he is, so he will not win this one!
And you will do fine, just hang in there. And keep on the chicken for a few weeks, pigs feet for a treat or chewy, but not really a meal. Remember one source of meat for a while, then add other stuff. Bones are needed for chewies though, so that's why I think pigs feet are ok, so are ribs and stuff, puppies need stuff to chew on or the house is fair game:)
Good luck, and keep it up, you'll be fine.
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: Tried to feed raw diet today.. NO LUCK
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:41 am ((PDT))

Hi, Jenn!
Did you do some reading on the list before you went shopping?
Go to the group's website and enter this post, # 141374 into the
search box.
Or, follow this link;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374
You can copy and paste this post into a text program, or just
highlight it and print it out, if you want.

Getting the kibble for the dog out of the house is a good idea, but
you can't do that for a cat, unless they embrace raw wholeheartedly
from the first bite.

You can go from free feeding to a few small meals a day, and only
offer kibble after raw, or mixed with it. Just keep it up out of the
dog's field of opportunity.

Pig's feet are more of an intermediate meal, not for a new to raw dog
or cat, imo. Imagine if you had eaten Froot Loops or Bran Flakes
cereal and milk only all your life; wouldn't a huge rack of BBQ or a
porterhouse steak freak you out for your first real meal?

IME, chicken; a half of a whole one for your Rott and some diced up
breast for the kitty (with a bit of chopped heart or liver) would be a
lovely first meal.

There is a sister list, raw cat, where you can go for advice on how to
switch your cat to raw;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I tried to start my 4 yr old Rottie and 1 yr old cat off on the raw
> diet today with no luck. <snip>
I gave in and fed them 1
> boneless skinless chicken breast which the dog ate with seemingly no
> problem. Any Suggestions? I am trying here with no luck.
>
> Jenn Myers
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Raw Fed Dog Videos!
Posted by: "lily_allyn" lily_allyn@yahoo.com lily_allyn
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:43 am ((PDT))

Please check out these great videos of what appears to be a young
mastiff eating a raw duck and a raw rabbit:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tzcpofzXe4M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pXsc4Xu4AQ

Note the gnawing!

Behold the jawing!

See the crunching!

Ripping and tearing too!

:) Cool eh?

This is the kind of super beneficial action that scrubs and flosses
teeth and stimulates gums, which all do wonders to maintain good oral
health.

Notice how the size of these meals keeps this dog busy for a good
while. Feeding big food prevents a dog from quickly gulping its meal
down, which gives his belly time to properly get its gastric juices
going. Large, whole food like this has a much better chance of being
digested properly, as compared to ground or small chunks of meat, or
things like chicken necks or wings, which are all easily and quickly
gobbled, landing in a tummy that hardly has time to sufficiently
prepare for the incoming meal.

Also, check out how Roscoe has to focus and work out how to tackle his
food in order to consume it. The time it takes to eat, along with the
mental and physical challenges posed by this meal, all serve as very
positive, natural stimulation for the dog. Compare the whole
experience to the way most kibble fed dogs eat, when the meal is
usually over in a matter of moments. No doubt eating the way Roscoe
does in these videos is a much more satisfying - and natural - way for
a canine to eat!

These videos are a great, graphic example of what is meant by feeding
dogs a diet based upon whole, raw meat and meaty bones, and most
likely, these meals probably even include at least some internal
organs as well.

When it comes to feeding our house carnivores properly this is where
it's at! Feeding plenty of raw meat, along with some edible raw meaty
bones and a bit of organ meat, is the best way to mimic Nature's
example of feeding a whole prey animal. Modeling our pets' diets on
Mother Nature's way of feeding carnivores is the most natural, healthy
way for our pets to eat.

For those who haven't seen it yet, you also might be interested in
taking a look at this site, where you can see a whole slew of
photographs of dogs of all shapes and sizes (and a few cats too)
eating all different kinds of whole raw meats, meaty bones and organs:

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

Enjoy!

Lily

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Raw Fed Dog Videos!
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:51 am ((PDT))

Thanks for posting those Lily! :-)

This is my Bullmastiff Rosco. And he does love to eat raw :-)

On 9/16/07, lily_allyn <lily_allyn@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Please check out these great videos of what appears to be a young
> mastiff eating a raw duck and a raw rabbit:
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=tzcpofzXe4M
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pXsc4Xu4AQ
>
> Note the gnawing!
>
> Behold the jawing!
>
> See the crunching!
>
> Ripping and tearing too!
>
> :) Cool eh?
>
> This is the kind of super beneficial action that scrubs and flosses
> teeth and stimulates gums, which all do wonders to maintain good oral
> health.
>
> Notice how the size of these meals keeps this dog busy for a good
> while. Feeding big food prevents a dog from quickly gulping its meal
> down, which gives his belly time to properly get its gastric juices
> going. Large, whole food like this has a much better chance of being
> digested properly, as compared to ground or small chunks of meat, or
> things like chicken necks or wings, which are all easily and quickly
> gobbled, landing in a tummy that hardly has time to sufficiently
> prepare for the incoming meal.
>
> Also, check out how Roscoe has to focus and work out how to tackle his
> food in order to consume it. The time it takes to eat, along with the
> mental and physical challenges posed by this meal, all serve as very
> positive, natural stimulation for the dog. Compare the whole
> experience to the way most kibble fed dogs eat, when the meal is
> usually over in a matter of moments. No doubt eating the way Roscoe
> does in these videos is a much more satisfying - and natural - way for
> a canine to eat!
>
> These videos are a great, graphic example of what is meant by feeding
> dogs a diet based upon whole, raw meat and meaty bones, and most
> likely, these meals probably even include at least some internal
> organs as well.
>
> When it comes to feeding our house carnivores properly this is where
> it's at! Feeding plenty of raw meat, along with some edible raw meaty
> bones and a bit of organ meat, is the best way to mimic Nature's
> example of feeding a whole prey animal. Modeling our pets' diets on
> Mother Nature's way of feeding carnivores is the most natural, healthy
> way for our pets to eat.
>
> For those who haven't seen it yet, you also might be interested in
> taking a look at this site, where you can see a whole slew of
> photographs of dogs of all shapes and sizes (and a few cats too)
> eating all different kinds of whole raw meats, meaty bones and organs:
>
> http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Lily
>

--
Scott

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Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: How to start a 6 year old on raw feed?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:54 am ((PDT))

Hi, Carole!
Go to the group website and enter post # 141374 in the
search box.
Or follow this link;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374
Be sure to let us know of your dog's progress!
What's his name?
btw, cats eat raw, too.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I did try to feed my dog raw meat and bones when he was a pup (about 8
> months old) but he didn't like it. We are vegetarians so after trying
> for a couple of weeks we quit it. <snip>
> Can you please share your tips and tricks with me and my dog?
>
> Carole

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: regurgitating
Posted by: "piperspetsittingservice" piperspetsittingservice@yahoo.com piperspetsittingservice
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:48 am ((PDT))

I have heard that regurgitating is completely normal, as well. Wolves
do it in the wild. Like you said, if something doesn't sit right, up
it comes, and many times they will (sorry for the graphic nature of
this..) eat up again. My greyhound threw up her first chicken leg and
I think it was because she only crunched a couple times then down it
went...whole. However, she didn't have any interest in eating again,
possibly because she was rather new to raw at the time. I haven't
tried feeding legs again, but this is a new week and I will try again!

Sandra in Florida
Piper's Mom

Messages in this topic (5)
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8. meant 104
Posted by: "moemahood@aol.com" moemahood@aol.com selfemployedhealth
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:19 am ((PDT))

I meant 104 -- perhaps I am a little stressed???

I think I'll take her to my vet on monday and get it checked.? She is very stressed -- not wanting to come inside, panting.? I have some rescue remedy I think I'll give her some of that.

I'm going to give her a beef rib this afternoon to knaw on -- she ate about 3/4 lb of ground deer this morning.? She slept in her kennel last night and was quiet and dry.....so I think my fellow rescuers are over reacting with the URI.? We just have a real bad one at our shelter and they have to put a lot of dogs down because its so contagious.

?Maureen

________________________________________________________________________
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