[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12036

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. raw diet and kidney failure
From: schreierlori@aol.com
1b. Re: raw diet and kidney failure
From: Sandee Lee

2.1. Newbie
From: Veth Javier

3a. Re: Pork intolerance?
From: cresco299
3b. Re: Pork intolerance?
From: Howard Salob
3c. Re: Pork intolerance?
From: costrowski75

4a. Sheep Wool WAS: Re:Sheep? and re-intro
From: Christy B
4b. Sheep Wool WAS: Re:Sheep? and re-intro
From: Maria

5a. Re: anal sacs?
From: helpshelteranimals
5b. Get it and freeze it?
From: Kaitlin Fraser
5c. Re: anal sacs?
From: Laurie Swanson
5d. Re: Get it and freeze it?
From: costrowski75
5e. Re: Get it and freeze it?
From: Yasuko herron

6a. Re: Swallowing big bones whole?!
From: mrskheath

7a. Re: Long-haired Lap Dogs
From: geraldinebutterfield
7b. Re: Long-haired Lap Dogs
From: Cathy Crosby
7c. Re: Long-haired Lap Dogs
From: Loretta Luja

8a. Ostrich Egg
From: Susanne MacLeod
8b. Re: Ostrich Egg
From: Karen Swanay
8c. Re: Ostrich Egg
From: ada
8d. Re: Ostrich Egg
From: Yasuko herron
8e. Re: Ostrich Egg
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: pregnancy diet
From: Phil Scala

10a. Zachary doesn't want to eat today
From: Mia-Shay Emery
10b. Re: Zachary doesn't want to eat today
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

Messages
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1a. raw diet and kidney failure
Posted by: "schreierlori@aol.com" schreierlori@aol.com lorischreier
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:19 am ((PDT))

Hi,
I am new to the group and not yet feeding raw. I was just told 2 weeks ago
that my dog (10 year old shep/hound mix) has kidney failure. Don't know if
chronic or acute. She doesn't act sick at all aside from being lethargic
sometimes. They gave her a day of IV fluids at the vet and sent me home with a can
of K/D food for kidneys - low protein, basically corn starch mush. I won 't
give it to her but started cooking a homemade diet with veggies, grain an
meat. I know this list doesn't approve of other than meat. Now I am wondering
about raw, especially if all meat, and how to do that and not overload her on
protein since they say it is hard on the kidneys. Any ideas or experience
outs of others in this situation?
Thanks
Lori

Lori Schreier and James Warren

Fertile Fields Farm

Growing Food with Gratitude
916 River Road
Westmoreland, NH 03467
(603) 399-7772

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: raw diet and kidney failure
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:08 am ((PDT))

Lori,

It is not protein that needs to be avoided. The easy digestibility, high
moisture content of a raw diet is exactly what any diseased organ needs in
order to heal/remain healthy. Low protein high carbohydrate diets are quite
harmful to the organs as they produce more waste products requiring the
organs to work harder.

Here is some info about protein/kidney disease....
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/114796

Depending on just how severe this is, you may need to watch phosphorus
content. Do you have the lab results?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <schreierlori@aol.com>
> I am new to the group and not yet feeding raw. I was just told 2 weeks ago
> that my dog (10 year old shep/hound mix) has kidney failure. Don't know if
> chronic or acute. She doesn't act sick at all aside from being lethargic
> sometimes. They gave her a day of IV fluids at the vet and sent me home
with a can
> of K/D food for kidneys - low protein, basically corn starch mush. I won
't
> give it to her but started cooking a homemade diet with veggies, grain an
> meat. I know this list doesn't approve of other than meat. Now I am
wondering
> about raw, especially if all meat, and how to do that and not overload
her on
> protein since they say it is hard on the kidneys.

Messages in this topic (2)
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2.1. Newbie
Posted by: "Veth Javier" vethjavier@gmail.com vethjavier
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:38 am ((PDT))

Hi, Just joined this group and have been enjoying reading the posts. After
not having any animals for over 15 years, I recently adopted two dogs that
became inseparable at their rescue site. I started one dog last night on
raw food and after his meal he was staring at me in disbelief like he had
the most unbelievably delicious meal. I don't think he took a breath while
eating. I had ordered crushed organic chicken from grandadspetfoods.com but
next time I will get whole pieces like everyone has mentioned here.
Still learning,
Veth

--
Veth Javier, L.Ac., Dipl. Ac.
13616 Victory Blvd.
Van Nuys, CA 91401
818-771-5858
http://vethjavier.blogspot.com

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Messages in this topic (113)
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3a. Re: Pork intolerance?
Posted by: "cresco299" gentry.jeffrey@yahoo.com cresco299
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:53 am ((PDT))

"costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> After three months you can start backing off on the chicken. Four
> days a week is a lot of chicken. I recommend you mix it up more.

****
Good to know, I'll keep up with the pork. But as far as the chicken
goes, I thought it could be used as a "staple" in the dogs diet. I'm
definitely open to change but this will likely blow my doggie budget
out of the water!

Thanks for the input.

Jeff

Messages in this topic (9)
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3b. Re: Pork intolerance?
Posted by: "Howard Salob" itiskismet1968@yahoo.com itiskismet1968
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:19 am ((PDT))

Dear Chris,

Try try green tripe. It is beef and excellent for dogs and it is cheap.

Sincerely,

Howard

cresco299 <gentry.jeffrey@yahoo.com> wrote:
"costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> After three months you can start backing off on the chicken. Four
> days a week is a lot of chicken. I recommend you mix it up more.

****
Good to know, I'll keep up with the pork. But as far as the chicken
goes, I thought it could be used as a "staple" in the dogs diet. I'm
definitely open to change but this will likely blow my doggie budget
out of the water!

Thanks for the input.

Jeff

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (9)
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3c. Re: Pork intolerance?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:40 am ((PDT))

"cresco299" <gentry.jeffrey@...> wrote:
> But as far as the chicken
> goes, I thought it could be used as a "staple" in the dogs diet. I'm
> definitely open to change but this will likely blow my doggie budget
> out of the water!
*****
No, it will only blow out a narrowly-researched budget.

The further one feeds from whole prey, the more alert one must be for
variety, both protein source and body part. Variety is how we make
sure we're providing the full range of vits and mins; variety is how we
supply the nutrients our dogs require. Ideally no one protein source
should have to dominate the menu meal after day after week after
month. Try to have several "staples" in the offing and don't get
complacent feeding the same old-same old all the time.

The more red meat you can get into your dog, the better; increasing the
amount of heart you feed is one way you can reduce your dependence on
chicken while not busting your budget. A chicken/pork/heart menu with
all three generally assuming a generally equal burden of responsibility
might be a useful plan. A chicken/heart/pork/player to be named later
would be even more beneficial.

Sometimes compromises need to be made and one does what one has to do.
C'est la guerre. But the goal should be to feed variety. And the more
you look for options, the more options you'll find.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (9)
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4a. Sheep Wool WAS: Re:Sheep? and re-intro
Posted by: "Christy B" christyb@cox.net christyb14
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:21 am ((PDT))

Help!

What can I do with this unsheared sheep?

I haven't actually seen it yet - it is in several trash bags in my
freezer. I told the farmer not to shear it thinking that was the
right thing to do. She said that some parts they had to in order to
butcher it but other parts they left it on. How in the world can I
salvage this really expensive adventure?

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Christy

Sheep Wool WAS: Re:Sheep? and re-intro
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:32 pm (PST)

*** Wild sheep do not have the same type/amount of wool as sheep bred
for wool production. Yes, if wolves pulled down a wild sheep, they
might eat some of the hide and therefore some of the wool, and most
dogs would not eat the wool either since it is not digestible. Wool
mats when wet, so
I would be afraid to feed hide-on sheep in full coat.

*** In short, the hide is great, but eating a huge amount of attached
wool might not be. A recently-sheared sheep would be fine.

Carrie

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Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Sheep Wool WAS: Re:Sheep? and re-intro
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:11 am ((PDT))

Pull the skin off of the meat.

Maria.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Christy B <christyb@...> wrote:

> How in the world can I salvage this really expensive adventure?
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> Christy
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: anal sacs?
Posted by: "helpshelteranimals" helpshelteranimals@yahoo.com helpshelteranimals
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:13 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "johkemp" <johkemp@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone's raw fed dog have these problems?
> Jo
******************

Our cat used to have hers expressed every WEEK! It was bad!

Since switching to raw we have not had a single problem with her!

AG, & Ruffian (mystery mutt)

Messages in this topic (10)
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5b. Get it and freeze it?
Posted by: "Kaitlin Fraser" fraserk7@hotmail.com fraserk7
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:28 pm ((PDT))

Chicken and pork are currently rather cheap at my new butcher..... I
generally pay about 2dollars a pount for chicken and it's on sale for
1.39... Pork I pay about 2.10-2.50 a pound and I can get it right now if I
buy a WHOLE side for 1.59.... Should I get it and freeze it? I mean I freeze
all my meats short term... but that meat would be around a while... it won't
hurt it will it?

Kaitlin Fraser
Prince SJA therapy dog, CGN
Jester SJA therapy dog CGN
Wenlisa's Command Performance HIC, CKC PTd "Malo" A work of art in
progress.( Raw Fed, )
Sheep's Kin Unusually Unusaul Kiska- Another work of art in even more
progress.( Raw fed)

No dogs are vaccinated in my home.

" No one can walk into a room and bring as much joy, happyness and love as a
single dog can"

_________________________________________________________________
Put Your Face In Your Space with Windows Live Spaces

http://spaces.live.com/?mkt=en-ca

Messages in this topic (10)
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5c. Re: anal sacs?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:31 pm ((PDT))

My dog used to scoot his butt on the carpet every so often and had his
anal sacs expressed once by the vet. The problem wasn't bad enough for
me to worry about treating it too much and I really didn't like the
idea of having them expressed, but I noticed it went away after I
removed the veggies from his diet. I used to feed ground raw meat and
pureed veggies. Since going to prey model and getting rid of veggies
about a year ago, the scooting stopped.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "johkemp" <johkemp@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone's raw fed dog have these problems?
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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5d. Re: Get it and freeze it?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:54 pm ((PDT))

"Kaitlin Fraser" <fraserk7@...> wrote:
Should I get it and freeze it? I mean I freeze
> all my meats short term... but that meat would be around a while...
it won't
> hurt it will it?
*****
Yes, get it. I recommend you do your divvying up process before you
freeze it so that you don't have to defrost and refreeze great hunks of
stuff each time you need some. If you wrap it well you can freeze it
for several months without worry of freezer burn; if you don't wrap it
well the meat may be freezer burned but that will not be a problem for
the dogs.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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5e. Re: Get it and freeze it?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:56 pm ((PDT))

>Should I get it and freeze it?

Hi.I would get it.

>that meat would be around a while... it won't hurt it will it?

Usually, for human,meat be in feezer up until about 9 months or so,I read in one of my cookbook trying to tell you how long you can keep food.

But for dog...,it probably not much problem,I think.

I have a stand-up freezer exclusively for palette. I rarely buy meat for months,because I gathered all I need when I first started rawfeeding,and my plan is to add lower stock up every time when needed.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

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Messages in this topic (10)
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6a. Re: Swallowing big bones whole?!
Posted by: "mrskheath" mrskheath@yahoo.co.uk mrskheath
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:41 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Karlene,
>
> How big are your dogs? Those are small pieces for anything but tiny
> dogs. Can be choking hazards, but sounds like it went down ok. It
> should digest fine. You may see fragments in his poop, or it's
> possible he'll vomit some back up, but that can happen in newbie dogs

How big depends on how big he is. If
> you fed him a pound, is he about 30-50 lbs.? If that's the case, I'd
> probably not go any smaller than a quarter of a chicken (in one
> hunk). If you want to slow him down even more, go even bigger and
> let him eat half or whatever, and save the other half for the next
> meal. It will be more naturally dismantled and he'll have to work
> and think even more.
>
> Laurie
>

Nanuq is a 19 month old Siberian husky. He weighs in at 20 kilos / 42
lbs.
Saying a 1/4 of a chicken is rather vague - i suppose it depends on
the size of the chicken. He is having just over a lb a day - is this
ok? I try to include a leg in the part i cut off as it contains a big
bone that he will have to work at to get the meat off, but it's still
gone in pretty much 2-3 minutes. He has always eaten raw (minced as a
pup - i was so naive, then defrosted poultry necks, tripe or liver) so
he isn't entirely new to raw - although he certainly enjoys this more,
as does the younger puppy, she also finishes it in no time (she is now
almost 5 months). I think you could be right that it is excitement,
maybe in a few days it will calm down, he certainly seems more than
ok. Can't believe I never did this before. It's so much easier than
all that preparation. Yippee.

Karlene

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Re: Long-haired Lap Dogs
Posted by: "geraldinebutterfield" gbutterflied@comcast.net geraldinebutterfield
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:42 am ((PDT))

I am really drawn to the whole raw feeding thing, but
> with long-haired lap-dogs, how messy are they going to be? I'm
not the best
> housekeeper, but I have to draw the line at sleeping with bloody-
covered,
> fatty, smelly doggies. Will they need bathing every day? Anyone
here in
> the same situation?
>
> --
> Renate

Hi Renate,
I have a white maltipoo which I keep the hair on her face and head
long. She does get messy when she eats but I just clean her up with
a wash cloth. She doesn't smell at all. In fact, her breath doesn't
have even a doggy smell like it did on "k". And she IS a lap dog :-)
> Although she doesn't sleep with us all night she does come into
bed with us in the morning.

go for it! you won't be sorry-
geraldine

Messages in this topic (7)
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7b. Re: Long-haired Lap Dogs
Posted by: "Cathy Crosby" biblecat@sbcglobal.net waycoolcavies
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:28 pm ((PDT))

I'm far from an expert, having started raw feeing a whole 5 days ago,
but wanted to comment on the facial hair issue. I have a Chinese Crested
and so far she hasn't made a mess of herself at all. The best part is
her breath is wonderful! OK this is gross, but I keep sniffing her
because I can hardly believe how sweet her breath is. The plaque is
disappearing too. Now if I can just get the runnies to stop I'll be in
good shape. It is hard to pick up while on walks!
Cathy

Messages in this topic (7)
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7c. Re: Long-haired Lap Dogs
Posted by: "Loretta Luja" luja@comcast.net desertwilite
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:31 pm ((PDT))

I don't know if this would help your dog,
but mine have to wear a "snood" when they
eat to keep ears out of the food. It is like a
sleeve that has elastic on each end and covers
and holds back the ear and neck hair. They
don't mind putting them on because it means
it's chow time!! You can email me if you want
a cheap source for one to try out.

Loretta L

Messages in this topic (7)
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8a. Ostrich Egg
Posted by: "Susanne MacLeod" suzmacleod@rogers.com skull25ca
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:21 am ((PDT))

I went to pick up my Ostrich Necks yesterday from my Ostrich lady and
she gave me an Ostrich Egg, Have any of you guys ever fed this. It's
almost a big as a football. Huge for my 2 Frenchies! LOL
Suz Kate and Joey

Messages in this topic (5)
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8b. Re: Ostrich Egg
Posted by: "Karen Swanay" luvbullbreeds@gmail.com kswanay1111
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:28 pm ((PDT))

one ostrich egg is the measurable equivalent to a dozen chicken eggs
roughly. That's a lot of egg for two small dogs. I'd be careful about
letting them gorge on that much egg since it can give them diarrhea. I
wonder if you couldn't crack it, scramble it (not cook it) and say mix it
with ground meat then freeze that to feed out in appropriate portions. I've
fed them to my guys but mine are large dogs.
Karen

>
>
>

--
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."

LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.

~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~

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8c. Re: Ostrich Egg
Posted by: "ada" mom2moz@yahoo.com mom2moz
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:29 pm ((PDT))

hehehe....I'm jealous, here. Trying to visualize my Yorkie with an Ostrich neck <smile>.

I'd just crack the egg, and see what they do with it. Be ready to follow up with bath!

Susanne MacLeod <suzmacleod@rogers.com> wrote:
I went to pick up my Ostrich Necks yesterday from my Ostrich lady and
she gave me an Ostrich Egg, Have any of you guys ever fed this. It's
almost a big as a football. Huge for my 2 Frenchies! LOL
Suz Kate and Joey

ada
mo (silkie/shih-tzu/maltese mutt) & abbie (yorkie)

"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole." ~ Roger Caras

---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

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8d. Re: Ostrich Egg
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:30 pm ((PDT))

>she gave me an Ostrich Egg

Hi,lucky for you! I have seen in on Food Network but it did look pretty big!

why don't you pour into measuring cup or some sort and stir,and give some to your dog and for rest of the Egg,you eat it with your family as scramble egg or something?

I have never tasted it before but,with huge Egg,you could make some for human family too.

If you give whole thing to dog,I worry about outcome though..

yassy

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Messages in this topic (5)
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8e. Re: Ostrich Egg
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:50 pm ((PDT))

"Susanne MacLeod" <suzmacleod@...> wrote:
>It's
> almost a big as a football. Huge for my 2 Frenchies!
*****
Zounds!
I vote you scramble the contents, then freeze the results in a ice cube
tray so that you can feed through the monster in gentle doses.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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9a. Re: pregnancy diet
Posted by: "Phil Scala" tengaishibas@comcast.net cpmmc
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi,
I'm fairly new at the raw feeding(2 years) but I fed my Shiba Inu
girl pretty much what she ate normally I added some cottage cheese
and eggs every other day after about 2-3 weeks for a few weeks and
then everyday after. Late in the pregnancy her meals were 2-3 times a
day. She sometimes didn't eat all her food, and about 2 weeks before
delivery and 1 week after didn't want a lot of boney meals. She
usually eats chicken, turkey, lamb,pork,beef, salmon, sardines,
mackarel, whatever I can find. She did prefer more softer food items
(organs, tripe, ground trachea)late in the pregnancy. Last litter she
easily delivered 3 nice healthy pups who gained daily and who weaned
to raw. I also add fish oil to my dogs food.
She was just bred again last week, and I will continue the same
routine with her. Hopefully she blesses us with another healthy litter

Phil
www.tengaishibas.com
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Baird" <judy@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I have a female that is being bred this week.
> Years ago I followed a diet from Growing Your Pups with Bones
(Billinghurst)

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10a. Zachary doesn't want to eat today
Posted by: "Mia-Shay Emery" briarbaby_04@yahoo.com briarbaby_04
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:30 pm ((PDT))

Hi All
Zachary isn't interested in eating today, otherwise he seems fine. I've seen people mention fasting their dogs, will he fast himself?
We are still figuring out how much he eats in a day, so far he's eating 4-6 cups of raw chicken, bone in, per day depending on the day. He eats it in three meals and is only interested in his midday feeding on some days.
I try not to leave his food down for too long, usually 20-30 min, as I worry about bacteria.
He hasn't had the runs since he overindulged on deer organs, (we just give him a little bit from the freezer each day) and a bit of dried liver for a treat now and then.
Are we doing ok?
Mia

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10b. Re: Zachary doesn't want to eat today
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:45 pm ((PDT))

Mia,
Sounds like you're doing fine. I wouldn't worry about any bacteria, but you don't need to leave the food out so long, if he's not eating it in about 15 minutes, put it away, just because. Then put it out at the next feeding. And dogs do regulate themselves all the time. They sometimes don't get hungry, haven't used alot of energy that day, not hungry. Seems funny for a dog to turn away food, but my danes have done it, and it was weird. But it's ok. No need to fast unless they might be sick. And you didn't see any signs of that, so looks like he just wasn't hungry.
Depending on the size of dog you have (for 4-6 cups of chicken) and how old he is, he might not need three feedings a day anymore. You could easily back him off to two now, since he is kind of telling you he's not interested in that other feeding. If he is a Giant Breed dog like mine, and going on over 6 months of age, you could even back him off to one feeding a day, with chewy bones with some scraps of meat on them for snacks during the day. Sounds like you have a very smart dog on your hands:)
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (2)
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