[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12468

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: How much protein?
From: Sandee Lee
1b. Re: How much protein?
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: How much protein?
From: gypsyjazmine
1d. Re: How much protein?
From: gypsyjazmine
1e. Re: How much protein?
From: Yasuko herron
1f. Feeding a puppy concern
From: Mandy Walter
1g. Re: How much protein?
From: susrob061174
1h. Re: How much protein?
From: Sandee Lee
1i. Re: How much protein?
From: darkstardog

2a. Re: Recent Vet Visit
From: Sandee Lee

3a. Re: Feeding Hope
From: carnesbill

4a. Re: Tight budgets...and NEW Raw-fed Furbabies!
From: godkrittersnkids
4b. Re: Tight budgets...and NEW Raw-fed Furbabies!
From: T Smith
4c. Re: Tight budgets...and NEW Raw-fed Furbabies!
From: godkrittersnkids

5a. Re: poop discussion
From: carnesbill

6a. Ooops...My intro!
From: h h

7a. Re: Pork? / wild hog
From: linoleum5017
7b. Re: Pork? / wild hog
From: Laurie Swanson
7c. Re: Pork? / wild hog
From: godkrittersnkids

8a. Re: I got TONS of free meat!!
From: A.

9a. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
From: Elizabeth
9b. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
From: Yasuko herron

10a. Re: Tip to those with tight budgets
From: Heather

11a. Re: Portion size for Mastiffs
From: tdifr62

12a. Re: Horse Turds
From: susrob061174

Messages
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1a. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:15 pm ((PST))

www.pedigreebreeder.com.au
"Protein nutrition is obviously still not completely understood, however it
is an essential part of every dog's diet. You can't give too much protein in
your dog's diet; however quality not quantity makes the difference."

www.purina.com
"Dietary protein requirements are much higher for growing puppies than
for fully grown dogs. In addition to supplying the protein needed to support
protein turnover and normal cellular metabolism, protein is needed to build
growing muscles and other tissues."
"Research at the Purina Pet Care Center and at other facilities has
shown that puppies fed inadequate protein do not grow as well and are more
susceptible to health problems than those fed nutritionally complete diets.
At the Pet Care Center, English setter puppies that were fed a low-protein
diet showed stunted growth compared to puppies fed higher levels of protein.
However, when the protein level was increased in the puppies at the Pet Care
Center, the deficiency was corrected."
"Concern about protein causing developmental bone problems in
large-breed puppies has led some breeders to reduce the amount of protein
they fed. However, in research published in 1993 based on studies of Great
Dane puppies at Utrecht University in the Netherlands, it was shown that
dietary protein does not contribute to these problems."
"Herman A. Hazewinkel, D.V.M., Ph.D., professor of veterinary medicine
at Utrecht University, led the research that found no detrimental effects
from protein levels up to 32 percent of the diet. However, puppies fed a
diet of only 15 percent protein showed evidence of inadequate protein
intake."
"Too low protein decreases the growth rate of puppies and also their
immunological response," Hazewinkel says. "This is true for large- and
small-breed puppies. An adequate protein level should be higher than 15
percent."
"This study, conducted in young Great Danes during their first
half-year of life, concluded that dietary protein increased to 32 percent
does not negatively affect skeletal or cartilage development in these dogs.
The research also confirmed that dietary protein did not have detrimental
effects on liver and kidney functioning."
So the conclusion of the above referenced research stresses the need
for high quality protein to achieve the best growth and immune systems. No
proof was found that protein amounts affect skeletal growth in any adverse,
except when using too little or too poor quality.

www.eukanuba-eu.com
This article reiterates that high protein does not cause OCD or HD, in
either the hips or elbows:
Research into the growth of Great Danes (Nap RC, The Netherlands,) has
shown that the protein level of a diet has no significant influence on
skeletal development. High protein intake does not result in increased risk
for OCD or HD, and there is no effect on the development in the longitudinal
growth of the bone."
Additionally, while protein does not cause orthopedic problems, other
nutrients can.

www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu
"In addition to excessive calcium intake, researchers have shown that
over nutrition can also initiate these disturbances in skeletal maturation
and growth. An excess protein intake, without an excess of other nutrients
revealed NOT to influence skeletal maturation and growth in growing Great
Danes (Ref. 2)."

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "gypsyjazmine" <GYPSY_JAZMINE@MSN.COM>

Are you saying that there isn't too much protein in RAW or that high
protein isn't a concern?

Messages in this topic (15)
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1b. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:22 pm ((PST))

"gypsyjazmine" <GYPSY_JAZMINE@...> wrote:
> Are you saying that there isn't too much protein in RAW or that high
> protein isn't a concern?
*****
I think we're saying raw meat is not just about protein and it's clear
from the USDA site that raw meat is about lots more. And since this is
a rawfeeding list, what happens to protein kibble is not a salient
issue.

In a raw diet there is no such thing as too much protein.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (15)
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1c. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "gypsyjazmine" GYPSY_JAZMINE@MSN.COM gypsyjazmine
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:32 pm ((PST))

I love Tibetan Mastiffs!
& ty for your input!...I have my 1st CH bitch & a CH stud that is
complimentary picked out & I am interested in getting on RAW full time
& being able to wean my 1st litter to RAW...Ty all who answered me!
I am sure I will be around with many more questions though! ( :
Michelle
Samsong Great Pyrenees
Iowa

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "windmilldairy" <drwindmill@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Michelle
> I raise Neapolitan Mastiffs and in the past Tibetan Mastiffs, and
when feeding raw do not
> concern yourself with the protein. Too much protein will burn out
dogs and make them grow
> too rapidly. Just feed meat and don't worry about it....They will
be beautiful.
>
> Pat

Messages in this topic (15)
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1d. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "gypsyjazmine" GYPSY_JAZMINE@MSN.COM gypsyjazmine
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:34 pm ((PST))

K..gotcha & ty for clarifying! ( :
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "gypsyjazmine" <GYPSY_JAZMINE@> wrote:
> > Are you saying that there isn't too much protein in RAW or that high
> > protein isn't a concern?
> *****
> I think we're saying raw meat is not just about protein and it's clear
> from the USDA site that raw meat is about lots more. And since this is
> a rawfeeding list, what happens to protein kibble is not a salient
> issue.
>
> In a raw diet there is no such thing as too much protein.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (15)
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1e. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:45 pm ((PST))

Hi. If you look at this site http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20F3.html

I picked Cornish Game Hen(with Skin,meat,fat,raw state) and if you see thesite,you can easily can tell how much actual protin in the Cornish game hen. 63% fat,37% protin,0% carb.

Human tend to call meat "Protin" but actual nutrition in the meat is not just protin but it has fat too. some meat contains tiny amount of carb like 1% or so.I forgot which meat it was but I have seen it.

I think that high protin concern is orginally coming from liver problem.Because in the past,people thought protin consumption is damaging organsin dog,but now,after some resarch,people know that protin is highly digestable and not going to damage organ.

Since unlike kibble,our way of feeding is preservative free,additive free,too much or too little vitamins in meal, and no damage is made in nutrition by high heat and food itemsare real meats,organ,bone,so,I can tell you that you would not regret choosing rawfeeding for your dog.

I think rawfeeding is best diet that people can give for dogs,and let them be live longer,healthier than before.

I would not regret my choice.

yassy

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

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Messages in this topic (15)
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1f. Feeding a puppy concern
Posted by: "Mandy Walter" mandy.0613@hotmail.com mandy07cherries
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:20 pm ((PST))

Hi Everyone, I am fairly new to the forum, I have just been reading the discussions. I am new at feeding raw and I have 4 puppies. I was told that I needed to buy the pre-packaged raw in order to balance the meal for the puppies. I found that my puppies front legs started turning out when I was giving the chicken quarters. I wasnt sure how to balance their meals or if there was something I was doing wrong. I was giving more than just the chicken of course. I gave organ meat, green beans, yogurt, pumpkin, etc etc.

In order to make life easier and instead of asking advice I switched back to kibble (big mistake) I had bloody diarhea for days. To say the least they are all back on raw. I guess I just had to try switching back for myself. I will never go back to kibble, raw has changed their lives for the better!

My biggest question and concern is how and what to feed my growing puppies. They are border collies and high energy. I have a hard time keeping weight on them so I would give beef often but when I did that I found they got the runs. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks so much!Mandy
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

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Messages in this topic (15)
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1g. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "susrob061174" susrob061174@yahoo.com susrob061174
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:37 pm ((PST))

Hi Sandee,

Thanks for the research information you have provided. I have a
question. When they did this research, what type of protein were they
giving, meat based or grain based? This researching being from a
variety of K****E companies, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could
throw them and that ain't far.

Thanks

Susanne, Courtney & the Danes (Zoe, Wilson & Annie)

Having a Dane is Grand? Have you licked your Dane today? :P

Messages in this topic (15)
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1h. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:21 pm ((PST))

All of the studies were not carried out by kibble companies and they do
state that quality is important.

Regardless, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Several of the up
to date studies regarding protein and kidney disease were done by dog food
companies, Waltham has admitted dogs have no need for carbohydrates, Iams
has put out studies showing that dogs require meat based protein. Selling
their food is all about business and profit...that doesn't mean they don't
know the truth or that all of their studies are unfounded.

Anyway, if we follow nature our pups will have all the nutrients they
require for perfect growth without us worrying about doing a balancing act.
Controlled growth is a result of feeding appropriately which is prey
model....that means lots of meat, a little bone and organs.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "susrob061174" <susrob061174@yahoo.com>

Thanks for the research information you have provided. I have a
question. When they did this research, what type of protein were they
giving, meat based or grain based? This researching being from a
variety of K****E companies, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could
throw them and that ain't far.

Messages in this topic (15)
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1i. Re: How much protein?
Posted by: "darkstardog" darkstardog@charter.net darkstardog
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:37 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "susrob061174" <susrob061174@...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks for the research information you have provided. I have a
> question. When they did this research, what type of protein were they
> giving, meat based or grain based?

Bloodmeal, casein (dehydrated), soyabean flour, corn gluten meal
(these were protein sources). Also, hominy feed, potato starch, wheat
middlings, sugar, tallow, soyabean oil, etc.

marty

Messages in this topic (15)
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2a. Re: Recent Vet Visit
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:17 pm ((PST))

Nope...don't measure up! :)) I actually harvested and froze since they
were easier to process when crunchy...and of course had to get enough to
make it worthwhile, and gather up all of the other supplies. Definitely
silliness!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Casey Post" <mikken@neo.rr.com>

> > Do I win????
>
> Well...I'd say it beats me if you pulped them up within minutes of
> harvesting so as to get the maximum amount of *phytonutrients* (cool word!
> Not helpful for canids, but oh so important sounding!) for your dogs.
>
> Isn't it nice that we can look back and laugh at our silliness?

Messages in this topic (18)
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3a. Re: Feeding Hope
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:29 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Atkinson" <hopenfox@...>
wrote:
>
> Does this sound okay? Would you do anything differently?

Sounds to me like you have made the necessary adjustments and all is
going great. If she looks good physically, has good teeth, and is a
happy energetic dog, what else could you ask for? If one of those
things are missing, try to adjust to take care of it.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Tight budgets...and NEW Raw-fed Furbabies!
Posted by: "godkrittersnkids" godkrittersnkids@yahoo.com godkrittersnkids
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:30 pm ((PST))

This is a wonderful program! My 2-footed kids and I just took part in
this program last month, are looking forward to this month, and
NOW...as of last night...there are 2 more kids in my home who will be
taking advantage of these bargains>>>MY BOYS ARE RAW-FED!!!!

I'm so excited...the looks on their precious faces were AMAZING!
Jackie, the 80-lb Labradawg, age 8, and Lonnie, the 34-lb B/C mix, age
14-1/2 (!), are just as happy as could be.

After only 2 (1 yesterday, 1 today) meals, they are more content, sleep
better, and their eyes just light up when I hand them their chicken.

Jack caught on more quickly than Lonnie...both have been fed k***le
their entire lives. Tonight, Jack was done pretty quickly, chewing and
crunching very well; I was afraid he was going to be a gulper.

And, my darling old boy took about 25% the time tonight that it took
him last night!

I'm so proud of both of them.

OUR thanks to all of you who have posted the last 5-6 weeks while I've
lurked...I, like another newbie from last night, am one to study
something to the hilt before jumping in. I have learned a huge amount
of information which I pray I can use to the utmost to make my boys'
lives longer, healthier, and happier.

Thank you again so much...I am SOOO excited!

Linda
Jackie, Lonnie, and (the soon-to-also-be-rawfed) Annie, kitty
extraordinaire!

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "homesforallpets"
<homesforallpets@...> wrote:
>
> I found a very interesting program. Its called Angel Food Ministries
> they do a monthly box deal and if you get the box you can get the
> monthly specials. This month's special is 20# of chicken breasts
> (don't remember if its boneless or not) for $20. This could work out
> to help feed the people and the dogs! For $50 you get lots of food
> for both. I believe the website is angelfoodministries.com might
> be .net or .org I'm not on my computer at the moment.
>
> Kathy in MO
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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4b. Re: Tight budgets...and NEW Raw-fed Furbabies!
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:21 pm ((PST))

Nothing for WA state.
oh well.
Trina

On Jan 6, 2008 7:31 PM, godkrittersnkids <godkrittersnkids@yahoo.com> wrote:

> This is a wonderful program! My 2-footed kids and I just took part in
> this program last month, are looking forward to this month, and
> NOW...as of last night...there are 2 more kids in my home who will be
> taking advantage of these bargains>>>MY BOYS ARE RAW-FED!!!!
>
>

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Messages in this topic (5)
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4c. Re: Tight budgets...and NEW Raw-fed Furbabies!
Posted by: "godkrittersnkids" godkrittersnkids@yahoo.com godkrittersnkids
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:37 pm ((PST))

SOOOO sorry to hear that ... :(

Linda

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> Nothing for WA state.
> oh well.
> Trina
>
> On Jan 6, 2008 7:31 PM, godkrittersnkids <godkrittersnkids@...>
wrote:
>
> > This is a wonderful program! My 2-footed kids and I just took
part in
> > this program last month, are looking forward to this month, and
> > NOW...as of last night...there are 2 more kids in my home who
will be
> > taking advantage of these bargains>>>MY BOYS ARE RAW-FED!!!!
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. Re: poop discussion
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:31 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rolypolyloly" <einafets83@...>
wrote:
>
> I found large chunks of bone laying
> in the yard (we feed her inside) and have no idea why it is there.

It was probably inside the early poops. Don't worry about it. It's
normal and will stop in time. It's normal for poops to turn white
in a day or two and turn to dust only to wash away the next time it
rains. I have 2 Great Danes and pick up poop maybe 2 or 3 times a
year when we go a long time between rains.

> Also, some of her poop was very crumbly and grainy. I don't
> know why it should be grainy.

Don't worry about it. Its normal. I THINK its bone powder but I'm
not sure. Just a guess.

> I am most worried about the mucus-like slime that
> was on a lot of her poop.

Don't worry about it. I suspect is a type of lubracation to help it
pass through the intestines. It will also decrease over time.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Ooops...My intro!
Posted by: "h h" deedeekinsisme@yahoo.com tarbedyh
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:31 pm ((PST))

We would probably be on RAW 100% by now but we moved across the state
to a completely unfamiliar & rural area & I am finding my
"connections" here still....

~~~~~~~~~~
Not sure where in IA you are, but there's a "BARF Iowa" group that mainly has members from Des Moines and on East. Not the most active list, but they can tell you where some of the "connections" can be found. (just ignore the neck/back & veggie talk)

Heidi on the other side of the Muddy Mo.

---------------------------------
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7a. Re: Pork? / wild hog
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:32 pm ((PST))

***
Donna,

What is BF? I'm picturing a Bishon Fries (or however you spell it!)
running down a 300 lb. sow..... not a realistic image! Please assist.

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Donna Forrester <birdiegirl67@...>
wrote:
>
> My BF just killed a wild sow hog, over 300 pounds live weight. Out
> freezer is stocked, and everything we didn't keep for ourselves will
go
> to the animals- my 4 dogs and 6 cats. > Donna
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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7b. Re: Pork? / wild hog
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:19 pm ((PST))

Lol--thanks for the chuckle, Lynne--usually that means boyfriend!

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "linoleum5017" <linoleum5017@...>
wrote:

> What is BF? I'm picturing a Bishon Fries (or however you spell it!)
> running down a 300 lb. sow..... not a realistic image! Please assist.
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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7c. Re: Pork? / wild hog
Posted by: "godkrittersnkids" godkrittersnkids@yahoo.com godkrittersnkids
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:21 pm ((PST))

lol...I'm thinking that was an abbreviation for boyfriend....

Linda
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "linoleum5017" <linoleum5017@...>
wrote:
>
> ***
> Donna,
>
> What is BF? I'm picturing a Bishon Fries (or however you spell it!)
> running down a 300 lb. sow..... not a realistic image! Please assist.
>
> Lynne

Messages in this topic (8)
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8a. Re: I got TONS of free meat!!
Posted by: "A." ols@charter.net cesare.1920
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:33 pm ((PST))

> How did you word it? I posted I fed my dog raw and wanted any
> unwanted meat including what folks were unsure were ok for people
to
> eat (ie too old, off odor) got raw feeders yelling at me for
> attempting to poison my dogs and telling me this is not what raw
> feeding is all about.
>
> Kathy in MO
>

****I just put something like the following in each ad-

"I am feeding 2 large dogs on a natural diet for health reasons. It
gets quite expensive and we will take meat, scraps from hunters,
organs... basically any extra meats you don't want! We would even
take freezer burned meat! We can use just about anything you have,
even meat that has been frozen for years.

Please respond if you have anything."

I didn't know you couldn't ask for meat. I haven't got any rude
responses yet but I have gotten quite a few offers for small
amounts. Problem is they are to far to drive to still be worth it
(craigslist doesn't have a city closer to me so I post in the
surrounding).

~Amanda

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9a. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:34 pm ((PST))

I was just making sure that there was not some sort of sizable
difference between feeding heart or feeding regular muscle meats, or
if I would be missing something from buying heart as the muscle meat.
I also wasn't sure if there is any reason why I couldn't feed
exclusively heart as a muscle meat instead of regular muscle meat,
since heart is cheap, cheap, cheap! I can buy lamb, beef, chicken and
pork hearts. I don't feed much chicken heart, but the others appear to
work very well for my dog.

It's not that I am looking to limit menu items, but my dog gets gassy
and itchy when she eats turkey and chicken, and she hates rabbit and
raw fish. We cannot find venison for a good deal around here, nor can
I acquire goat for a decent price, and am still looking for suppliers
for elk and bison. Otherwise I would certainly feed those, too. I've
posted, on numerous occasions, to the Carnivore Feed Suppliers list
and have found nothing so far. I keep trying, though.:)

The best score I made recently were some pheasant innards that my
father gave me from a hunting trip. He went deer hunting, but sadly,
his bounty was zero.

-Liz

Messages in this topic (8)
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9b. Re: beef, pork and lamb...
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:19 pm ((PST))

>I also wasn't sure if there is any reason why I couldn't feed exclusively heart as a muscle meat instead of regular muscle meat,

Hi,Liz.Heart tends to make poo softer andif you fed too much(more than dog can torelate),then you get runny poo. You probably can try give small bits andgradually increase theamount if dog could not torelate amount you like to feed. Herat is very nutritious and great item and I too feed animal heart from many kinds.

> my dog gets gassy and itchy when she eats turkey and chicken,

Check the label. Are they enhanced any ways like broth?? After Thanksgiving,I too got Turkey for cheaper price but,I found that fresh Turkey wasenhanced with brothand frozen one was just retaining water up to 2% or something.sometimes,such enhancing or salt solution cause itchying to dogs.

>she hates rabbit

Mine too! First couple of times on introduction phase,she did ate it but after some times,on second round,she went on longer strike not to eat it by laying on side on eating mat,not looking meat at all and if she ever ate it,then,she made such a disgusting face and I ended up giving rabbit to other rawfeeder.

>raw fish.

Did you try quick searing method?That helped my dog. But my dog cannot be fed catfish because for some reason,all shedoes is roll on the fish with delightful smile on her face,and no eating,just engaging on rolling on it and make her fur stink like catfish.

>nor canI acquire goat for a decent price,

Sometimes, Asian store carry it I hear.Where do you live? If you live in east coast,you can get goat rib from Hare today in PA. and for Vewnison,if you could fuind hunter friend it works great.

>for elk and bison.
I feed Elk and buffalo from Colorado and,the owner,Jan is nice person. Some of the item she carry like Buffalo tongue or hearts,you need to buy in 10lb as minimum amount so,you may need so so space in freezer. From CO to VA, it comes with 2 day Air and shipping fee is little high. So,I decided to order once a year or 6 months gathering up what is out of stock in my freezer for palette though.If you live closer to CO, then,shipping fee may not be a prob.
Are you interested?it is at www.elkusa.com

>The best score I made recently were some pheasant innards that my
father gave me from a hunting trip. He went deer hunting, but sadly,
his bounty was zero.

Maybe even if not all thetime but now and then,he could get lucky with deer,and you may get wholedeer.That is good thing.

I get pheasant whole from Hare today in PA too.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (8)
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10a. Re: Tip to those with tight budgets
Posted by: "Heather" newbeginnings06@gmail.com malignstar
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 8:35 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "homesforallpets"
<homesforallpets@...> wrote:
>
> I found a very interesting program. Its called Angel Food
Ministries
> they do a monthly box deal and if you get the box you can get the
> monthly specials. This month's special is 20# of chicken breasts
> (don't remember if its boneless or not) for $20. This could work
out
> to help feed the people and the dogs! For $50 you get lots of food
> for both. I believe the website is angelfoodministries.com might
> be .net or .org I'm not on my computer at the moment.

You can buy chicken quarters at Walmart - 10 lb bag for $4.70. My
stepdad gets food thru Angel Food and I think it's cheaper to buy at
Walmart when you do a price per pound comparison. :)

Heather

Messages in this topic (5)
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11a. Re: Portion size for Mastiffs
Posted by: "tdifr62" tdifraia@comcast.net tdifr62
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:38 pm ((PST))

I have 2 Mastiffs. My oldest is a 14 Mo Old Male, and weighs about 180
lbs. He is VERY lean and still growing. He has been on raw since I
brought him home from the breeder, who is a raw feeder. My breeder
educated, coached and guided me all the way. I am VERY grateful for
her. Thank god because having dogs all my life, I never knew just how
good a raw diet is, and how bad kibble is. What a difference it makes.
Thank You Geri!!!
My 180 lber eats between 2-6 lbs a day. I go by what I fed him the
past few days and adjust accordingly. Lets say he had a small bony
meal the previous 2 days, lets say.. .Turkey necks and chicken backs,
with very little meat (which is what I usually feed when he has loose
stools), Ill go with a meatier meal ie... a whole chicken (4-5 lbs)
cut in half and served in 2 seperate meals, or some chicken backs with
a nice HUNK of beef heart and a slab of beef liver.
Some days he gets 2 lbs, some days he gets 5 lbs. I go for balance
over time. I keep an eye on his form and if he looks like hes getting
a lil chubby, Ill cut back a bit. If I see a few ribs popping out Ill
increase the meals. It really is about balance over time. I use the
guidlines 60-70 / 40-30 / 10. Being RMB / Meat / Organs. I make sure
he gets a good variety of poultry, beef, fish, pork, and now and then
lamb. The thing that I enjoy the most is watching how excited he gets
when I prepare his food.
My other is a 14 week old Male. He gets the same variety and
methodology, but I break his meals up into smaller portions and feed
3-4x a day. He weighs 48 lbs and is also lean. He will eat until he
explodes so I watch his amounts closer than my older boy. He will eat
between 2 and 4 lbs a day. Also I watch his body shape and make
adjustments. I walk these boys daily. The youngest just began to join
in on the daily hikes thru the woods. Also I take in to consideration
the distance and the intensity of the walks. On short walk days they
eat less, long hauls they eat more. Theres nothing more rewarding than
watching these 2 boys drool, moan and dance around while Im preparing
there food after a nice winter walk thru the woods. They really ENJOY
there meals. I could not imagine what it would be like if I was
placing a bowl of kibble in front of them every day.

So in a nutshell the 14 month old gets between 1 and 4 % of his body
weight on a daily basis. Over time he gets about 2%.

The 14 week old baby gets between 4 and 8 % on a daily basis, and over
time Id say he gets 6% of his body weight.
Good Luck, and dont ya JUST love the Mastiffs?

Tommy D.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/6/2008 11:37:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> ols@... writes:
>
> I was wondering about how many pounds you rawfeeders with Mastiffs (or
> other giant breeds) are feeding a day? How old are they and how much
> do they weigh too?
>
>
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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12a. Re: Horse Turds
Posted by: "susrob061174" susrob061174@yahoo.com susrob061174
Date: Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:37 pm ((PST))

Hi Loraine

I was told about 10 years ago before I started to feed RAW that horse
or cow turds is great for dogs. I now run to the cow pasture to just
get some. It aids the digestive tract with Vit K to rid bad bacteria.

Susanne, Courtney & the Danes (Zoe, Wilson & Annie)

Life is grand when you love a Dane? Have you licked your Dane
today? :P

Messages in this topic (4)
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