[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12050

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: UK suppliers
From: caroline gebbie

2a. Re: Help with new puppies....
From: Cindy Marabito

3a. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
From: kaylsraven
3b. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
From: steph.sorensen
3c. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
From: steph.sorensen
3d. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
From: Yasuko herron

4a. Re: update on Cairn puppy that would not eat
From: one_sojourner_one

5a. Re: Help!! Does my girl need calcium? Does my boy need more meat?
From: mrskheath
5b. Re: Help!! Does my girl need calcium? Does my boy need more meat?
From: mrskheath

6a. Newbie: looking for the ingredants for Raw Feeding
From: Jagbarbie
6b. Re: Newbie: looking for the ingredants for Raw Feeding
From: Sandee Lee

7a. Re: Older dog with diarrhea- help
From: Sandee Lee

8a. New to group I need help!
From: Megan
8b. Re: New to group I need help!
From: Sandee Lee

9a. Why don't vets recommend raw food?
From: jend404
9b. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
From: Tina Berry
9c. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
From: rosey031801
9d. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
From: Sandee Lee
9e. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
From: Lauren
9f. can't gain weight
From: Jon Warner

10a. Swallowing food whole
From: abeautiful3
10b. Re: Swallowing food whole
From: Sandee Lee

11a. Are once a day feedings a good idea?
From: Kelly P
11b. Re: Are once a day feedings a good idea?
From: Sandee Lee

12a. Re: Feeding Heads
From: Renate

Messages
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1a. Re: UK suppliers
Posted by: "caroline gebbie" caz320ml@yahoo.com caz320ml
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:11 am ((PDT))

Sandra thanks for that great information. I have contacted the suppliers and am waiting on price lists. Now looking for a second freezer and then ready to start.

Caroline, Bonnie and Londo

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Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Help with new puppies....
Posted by: "Cindy Marabito" doggirl1@earthlink.net rowdycowgirl50
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:11 am ((PDT))

Thanks for the great advice..I'm forwarding to my sister..Cindy

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
Posted by: "kaylsraven" kaylsraven@yahoo.com kaylsraven
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:56 am ((PDT))

Howdy.

Another option, if you can get ahold of green tripe--my guys never had
a problem with liver, but some of the more random organs I manage to
score at times, they don't like. So I comandeered a blender at my
place, mix a mess of various organs together (more finely chopped than
blended to puree), and freeze them in ice cube trays. One frozen organ-
cube gives you about one ounce, so perfect measure, and the healthy
dose of tripe in the mix means that they'll it them with glee no
matter what else is in it.

Good luck!

Sabrina 'n the gang

Messages in this topic (11)
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3b. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:01 pm ((PDT))

LOL, I already have a second dog. Scarlet (my pit bull) is a trash
compator. She eats liver, tripe, heart, fish oil pills - you name
it, she'll eat it! But Lucy has always been the picky one.

I just tried freezing it, and still no go. I ended up feeding it to
Scarlet AGAIN! I may try searing it just a little and seeing if
she'll eat it that way tomorrow.

I will also be looking for other species' liver. She doesn't like
chicken liver either. She eats the other chicken organs, but not the
liver.

And a third dog is not an option! ;-)

-Steph
Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey (the kitty)

> > From: "steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@>
> >
> > I have been trying for days to feed Lucy some beef liver, and she
> just
> > can't stand it! She eats heart, she eats tripe, but not the liver!
> >
> > What are some good alternatives that give her the same nutritional
> > value but that she may like better?
> >
> >
> > you could try getting a 2nd dog. ever sinse i moved back home, my
> dog suddenly eats anything, just so long as the other dog doesnt
get
> it, lol. i gave them a bunch of chicken gizzards and liver the
other
> day, zeke dove on it, spit it out when he realized what it was,
then
> snatched it back up when comet went to get it, lmao. first time in
> his life he ate raw liver, i've had to cook it before to get him to
> eat it, lol.
>
> kelly and zeke
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your
> story.
> > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Messages in this topic (11)
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3c. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:01 pm ((PDT))

*** Mod Note: please trim your posts! ***

Sounds pretty gross, but it's a good idea! Neither one of my dogs
like frozen things though. They never even liked Frosty Paws when I
gave them.

Once I really get a variety of things in my freezer, I'll be able to
at least try things like that. Right now, all I have is beef,
venison, chicken and pork, and only beef and chicken organs. I'm
currently vying for lamb and fish too, so I'll find something they
like.

Thanks for the idea!

Steph,
Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey (the kitty)

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "kaylsraven" <kaylsraven@...>
wrote:
>
> Howdy.
>
> Another option, if you can get ahold of green tripe--my guys never
had
> a problem with liver, but some of the more random organs I manage
to
> score at times, they don't like. So I comandeered a blender at my
> place, mix a mess of various organs together (more finely chopped
than
> blended to puree), and freeze them in ice cube trays. One frozen
organ-
> cube gives you about one ounce, so perfect measure, and the healthy
> dose of tripe in the mix means that they'll it them with glee no
> matter what else is in it.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Sabrina 'n the gang
>

Messages in this topic (11)
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3d. Re: Suggestions for a dog who HATES beef liver!
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:59 pm ((PDT))

>I will also be looking for other species' liver. She doesn't like chicken liver either. She eats >the other chicken organs, but not the liver.

Hi,Steph.If you go to shoppers grocery store,you can get pork liver or Asian store has it.

But, like I suggested in previous post,if you get grounded tripe and if dog likes it then,you can hide it inside(I know it is gross,but I wore plastic grove and made meatball-like with tripe,maybe about 1inch or 2 and froze it. I wanted to use tripe as side dish not main.)just like you make cheesy meatball if you will; wrap the liver inside the grounded tripe and I do not think dog ever chew the swallowable size of tripe,so,that may do the trick.Tripe smell could overpower the liversmell too if you do this way and if smell was prob for the dog,you could win this way:-P

Or, thumb nail sized chunk of liver with tripe mixed very well andthen,feed it.She may and may not findit,but you do not know until you try.

Just a thought

yassy

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
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4a. Re: update on Cairn puppy that would not eat
Posted by: "one_sojourner_one" onesojourner@gmail.com one_sojourner_one
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:16 am ((PDT))

ok here is my original post.

I think we have the pickiest dog ever and that's part of the reason we
wanted to try a raw diet. Our cairn is just over 4 months old and 10
pounds. We have been trying to feed him canidae and it has been hit
and miss. Tonight I thawed him a small chicken breast to see if he
would eat it. First he sat there and licked at it in the bowl. He then
picked it up and ran into the yard with it for some more licking. I
ripped a small bite size piece off for him but he just dropped it.
Finally he took the meat to a corner and buried it. He has done the
same thing with a small
cooked piece of steak. I have read about sprinkling with garlic but
thats just going to make him lick it some more. any thoughts?

-peter

Last night he finished off another small chicken breast. I diced it up
and added garlic to it. He would not eat it until I added another raw
egg to it like his first meal. This morning I thawed the breast and
then slapped it in a hot skillet for about 2 seconds on each side.
Just long enough to get it white on the outside. I then sliced it in
strips (no dicing this time) and added a little garlic powder. He ate
that even better so I am felling a lot better about things now. He is
going to try a little frozen steak for lunch and then I will see about
picking up some chicken wings or legs maybe a neck to see how he deals
with the bones. Either way he is eating a lot better than he was when
we were trying to mix the kibble with the soft food. If You or any one
else has any better suggestions as for a next step I would like to
know what I should be buying. I will be going to the store tonight.

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: Help!! Does my girl need calcium? Does my boy need more meat?
Posted by: "mrskheath" mrskheath@yahoo.co.uk mrskheath
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:40 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Karlene,
>
> Calcium comes from the bones...if you are feeding chicken, she is
getting
> plenty! Remember, only 10% bones in the overall diet is
required...whole
> chicken is around 26%. Protein and fat will provide plenty of
stamina for
> her training.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
>

Phew, feel much better now. Thanks. (wiping brow). Great stuff.

Karlene

Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. Re: Help!! Does my girl need calcium? Does my boy need more meat?
Posted by: "mrskheath" mrskheath@yahoo.co.uk mrskheath
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:40 am ((PDT))

>
> It depends on your each dog so,you can try and see if it does good
or not good.
>
> >2nd Question...Should I be concerned about how much calcium my
young bitch is getting? >She is also a sibe and weighs 30.8 lbs.
>>
> Since I do not do any agility or some sort,so,I am not sure if it
is done or not but I think fat becomes dogs' Energy so,it maybe the
one you like to feed?
>
> Of course,if you have just started,you still need to stick to
chicken but then after chicken meal, you can move to bit fattier than
chicken and see how they do.
>
> yassy

>
> ---------------------------------
> Building a website is a piece of cake.
> Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thanks. That helps. Yes the bitch is a pup, only 5 months too. Will
take on board your advice - thanks v much

Karlene

Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Newbie: looking for the ingredants for Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Jagbarbie" barbie@actionweb.cc Jagbarbie
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:36 am ((PDT))

I have 2 rough Collies and want to change from pre packaged Raw Feeding
to me buying the Raw Feeding foods and preparing the meals for my dogs.

I will be staying in Dallas Texas for the next 4 months.

Please help
Barbie

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: Newbie: looking for the ingredants for Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:36 am ((PDT))

Barbie,

To begin with, just start watching sale ads in your local markets. You can
generally get chickens, turkeys, beef hearts and other organs and pork quite
economically. Also look for ethnic markets, wholesalers, ranchers, meat
packers.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Jagbarbie" <barbie@actionweb.cc>

I have 2 rough Collies and want to change from pre packaged Raw Feeding
to me buying the Raw Feeding foods and preparing the meals for my dogs.

I will be staying in Dallas Texas for the next 4 months.

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: Older dog with diarrhea- help
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:22 am ((PDT))

Heidi,

I would definitely have bloodwork done on this guy. It is not unusual for
seizure meds to need some adjusting once on a raw diet...regardless, they
should be routinely checked anyway as Phenobarbital can cause liver damage.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Heidi" <troopob@yahoo.com>

AND any ideas about if the meds are now too much for him now that he
is not on dry food. Do you think the pills are causing stomach
upset (he's been on both for years and never had problems)? The
last blood work was in January and all was 'normal'.

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. New to group I need help!
Posted by: "Megan" clothingfuryou@yahoo.com clothingfuryou
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:03 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER TO SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

I have 3 dogs. 1 Blue Great Dane age 4 (118 lbs) 1 Boxer/Lab age 4 (50
lbs) and a Harliquin Dane age 4 months (55 lbs) Can anyone give me a
sample diet to start off with for each of my dogs. They are my family
so they don't do agility,dog shows,and are not being bred. They are
fairly lazy indoor dogs. My Blue Dane isn't really enjoying the raw
meat so I have been cooking it medium/slightly rare. I have been
giving the raw for several weeks just as an evening snack

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: New to group I need help!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:48 pm ((PDT))

First of all, if you haven't already, get the kibble out of the house. The
smell is powerful and carbohydrates are addictive...raw is quite bland and
some dogs will hold out if they think they have a chance at getting some of
their previous smelly food! :)

Then get yourself a few chickens, cut into quarters and hand to dogs. You
can warm it up and slice into it in a few spots to bring out the odor...I've
even smashed Parmesan cheese down into the slices to get a hesitant dog
going! :)
Feed them 2-3% of their ideal adult weight. My couch potato adult Danes eat
around 2%, maybe a little less.

Once they have adapted to digesting the chicken, you can slowly add in other
protein sources, more meat and organs.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Megan" <clothingfuryou@yahoo.com>

I have 3 dogs. 1 Blue Great Dane age 4 (118 lbs) 1 Boxer/Lab age 4 (50
lbs) and a Harliquin Dane age 4 months (55 lbs) Can anyone give me a
sample diet to start off with for each of my dogs. They are my family
so they don't do agility,dog shows,and are not being bred. They are
fairly lazy indoor dogs. My Blue Dane isn't really enjoying the raw
meat so I have been cooking it medium/slightly rare. I have been
giving the raw for several weeks just as an evening snack

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Why don't vets recommend raw food?
Posted by: "jend404" jend404@yahoo.com jend404
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:31 pm ((PDT))

I have a 4 month old Airedale Terrier. I currently feed him 50% kibble
and 50% prepackaged raw food. The reason I haven't gone to the 0% kibble
and butcher-bought meat is that my vet has put the fear of god in to me
not to do it.

And not just this vet, but all my vets I have ever had, have been
adamant about not feeding raw food to animals. Also, I do not believe,
and refuse to accept that these people are financially motivated to push
poison. Some of them have been close, personal friends of mine and feed
their own animals package food.

The results are in for humans. It has been consistently shown in trial
after trial that humans who eat fresh and various foods do better, live
longer and avoid all kinds of cancers, heart disease, yada yada yada
than humans fed a high-sugar, processed grain and rendered meat diet.
Not one human doctor in the world would prescribe such a diet. So why
does nearly every vet say that all the scientific evidence points to
feeding a packaged food diet for dogs?

Is there real scientific evidence that raw food is better than the
high-formulated and studied commercial animal food? I am also enough of
a scientist to know that various anecdotal evidence does not a
scientific study make.

I really am ready to start going all raw but I am very afraid that if I
don't supplement with kibble that has been vitamin enriched I will harm
my dog.

Thank you
Jennifer Dudley
jend404@yahoo.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bluhousworker/sets/72157601534108200/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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9b. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:46 pm ((PDT))

"The reason I haven't gone to the 0% kibble and butcher-bought meat is that
my vet has put the fear of god in to me
not to do it."

Only because your dog will become too healthy and never need to go to the
vet again which is money out of their pocket IMO - find a raw feeding
promoting vet.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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9c. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
Posted by: "rosey031801" rosey031801@sbcglobal.net rosey031801
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:12 pm ((PDT))

I did it as an experiment. It only took my dog about three weeks to
show major improvement. Now, if your dog is perfectly healthy you may
not see results or changes but all of us urge you to do what is
ultimately the best choice for your dog. How can kibble be better? The
vet wants his money!!! That's the reason. I don't go to the vet anymore
because my dog doesn't need it now. I don't buy his drugs or his food.
Simple!!!
Cheryl and the ten year old border mix who doesn't have to have his
teeth cleaned, doesn't need drugs for his arthritis and has more energy
than ever before.

Messages in this topic (6)
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9d. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:53 pm ((PDT))

Jennifer,

Here are a couple of articles that may be of interest to you...also the link
for the rawfeeding myths.

http://www.dogtorj.net/id51.html
http://rawfed.com/myths/index.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20030502044857/http://members.shaw.ca/petlife/rawpaper.htm

Whatever the reasons for vets feeding and recommending processed foods (and
there are several), it doesn't take a scientific study to prove that fresh
whole species appropriate foods are best for our pets. Nature has done that
for us. Carnivores thrived on the food they were designed to eat long
before man intervened and continue to do so.

The pet food industry is all about money and convenience, not the health of
our pets. Many of the pet food manufacturers admit this...and they also
admit dogs have no requirement for carbohydrates (your vet should know
this...it's in Merck). There is no way they can cook up a bunch of grains,
throw in some supplements, and call it healthy.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "jend404" <jend404@yahoo.com>

> > The results are in for humans. It has been consistently shown in trial
> after trial that humans who eat fresh and various foods do better, live
> longer and avoid all kinds of cancers, heart disease, yada yada yada
> than humans fed a high-sugar, processed grain and rendered meat diet.
> Not one human doctor in the world would prescribe such a diet. So why
> does nearly every vet say that all the scientific evidence points to
> feeding a packaged food diet for dogs?
>
> Is there real scientific evidence that raw food is better than the
> high-formulated and studied commercial animal food? I am also enough of
> a scientist to know that various anecdotal evidence does not a
> scientific study make.

Messages in this topic (6)
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9e. Re: Why don't vets recommend raw food?
Posted by: "Lauren" lfunaiol@yahoo.com lfunaiol
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:08 pm ((PDT))

I think that you would benefit from reading both of Tom Lonsdale's
books. They answer most all of your questions. Go to

www.rawmeatybones.com to purchase them. I did when I got started
feeding raw 2.5 years ago. I have been feeding my 4 dogs 100% raw
(prey model style) all of that time and my anecdotal evidence is that
they are all thriving and greatly improved from their kibble days.

Lauren Funaiole

Messages in this topic (6)
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9f. can't gain weight
Posted by: "Jon Warner" reefwiz@sbcglobal.net natalyavw
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:00 pm ((PDT))

Hi everyone,
I am new to this group and still learning about raw. I switch my dog to raw two and a half weeks ago. Before that she was on the home cooked diet. My girl has always had a problem keeping up her weight but now she is even more skinny. Her ribs, spine and pelvic bones are visible. She also has a very sensitive stomach and suspicion for IBD. My question is: what can I feed her to gain weight?. I feed her three times already. She gets turkey, ground turkey necks and lamb. Each meal consist 210 g of food, 60 g of each is RMB( turkey necks), 90g of lamb and rest is turkey. All meats are ground. She gets about 3% of her ideal weight (47 pounds). Her current weight is 43 pounds. So if there anything I could do to give her more calories without compromising her sensitive GI tract that would be great.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Natalya

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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10a. Swallowing food whole
Posted by: "abeautiful3" abeautiful3@yahoo.com abeautiful3
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:35 pm ((PDT))

Hello I am new to the group and to raw feeding I have American
Bulldogs that just about swallow what ever you give them, my question
is starting them out on raw food is there a certain way to feed them
so that they are not swallowing the meat, I can see them now being so
happy that they will just swallow and not chew.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Arlene

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: Swallowing food whole
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:54 pm ((PDT))

Arlene,

Feed large portions that they cannot swallow whole. I don't know if chicken
quarters would be too small or not...you might have to go with chicken
halves?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "abeautiful3" <abeautiful3@yahoo.com>

Hello I am new to the group and to raw feeding I have American
Bulldogs that just about swallow what ever you give them, my question
is starting them out on raw food is there a certain way to feed them
so that they are not swallowing the meat, I can see them now being so
happy that they will just swallow and not chew.

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Are once a day feedings a good idea?
Posted by: "Kelly P" picklesrfree@yahoo.com picklesrfree
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:58 pm ((PDT))

Hi all,

My pup is now 8 mos old and I'm wondering if I should feed her once a
day now instead of 2. She's never particularly hungry and any of her
feeding times. She sometimes takes is straight away, or, more often,
sniffs at it and lets it sit for a good while.

She's fairly active: She's walked/ran every day, plays for hours with
other dogs at least once a week, and joins us on hikes that have so far
been every other weekend.

I'd like to switch to feeding once a day so that I can give her one big
variety meal that she'll take straight away so we can move on with our
lives. I also don't like letting food sit outside as it attracts flies.

what do you all think? If I were to feed once a day, when do suggest
that should be, morning, noon, night?

Thanks for the help,

Kelly

Messages in this topic (2)
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11b. Re: Are once a day feedings a good idea?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:22 pm ((PDT))

It sounds like she is telling you she is ready for one meal a day, Kelly.
Fit it into your schedule...it doesn't matter when during the day it is.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Kelly P" <picklesrfree@yahoo.com>

what do you all think? If I were to feed once a day, when do suggest
that should be, morning, noon, night?

Messages in this topic (2)
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12a. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:10 pm ((PDT))

I know you are right and I appreciate your input, so I went today and bought
a heap of chicken quarters. Enough to last my 3 plus the 2 rescues a week.
(OK I know you all do it all the time, but I'm easing into to it LOL. ) Two
of my doggies sleep in my bed, so I'm thinking I should feed in the morning
and hopefully all will be well, but if not, I might know about it by
bedtime? yes? no? I know you guys probably think I'm nuts, and usually I'm
not like this, but the rest of my life is going through major doo-doo so I'd
like something to be partly predictable, at least. I already had a huge
mess up with my bitch Bella. She went into heat and is now thoroughly bred
byFrodo though I had certainly not intended that. He was a personal rescue
who was supposed to have been neutered but I had a rescue dog that attacked
him and broke 3 ribs and everything just went to h e double toothpicks.
Anyway, any advice at this point about these stupid detail would help.
Sorry to be so pathetic.
Renate

On 9/18/07, Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, Renate!
> Just my 2 cents.
> The real learning about feeding raw happens after you start!
> If you watch the dogs, they will teach you.
> What you learn before that integrates with what their body's responses
> tell you. Its a dynamic process.
> Don't wait!
> TC
> Giselle
> with Bea in New Jersey
>
> <snip>
> We've been testing the waters and none of them have any
> > problem eating any bits of anything that I cut off our food before
> cooking,
> > so I don't know why I'm hesitating. Keep thinking I need to learn
> more...
> > Renate
>
>
>

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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