[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12044

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: I'm new with puppy
From: katkellm

2a. Re: Newbie starting raw diet this week
From: katkellm
2b. Re: Newbie starting raw diet this week
From: costrowski75

3a. Just started three weeks ago...pit bull losing hair!
From: steph.sorensen
3b. Re: Just started three weeks ago...pit bull losing hair!
From: costrowski75
3c. Re: Just started three weeks ago...pit bull losing hair!
From: steph.sorensen
3d. Re: Just started three weeks ago...pit bull losing hair!
From: costrowski75
3e. Re: Just started three weeks ago...pit bull losing hair!
From: steph.sorensen
3f. Re: Just started three weeks ago...pit bull losing hair!
From: katkellm

4a. Re: regurgitating
From: Andrea

5a. Re: Raw Fed Dog Videos!
From: Mal Firth

6. Fw: [rawfeeding] Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
From: Sonja

7a. Help!! Does my girl need calcium? Does my boy need more meat?
From: mrskheath
7b. Re: Help!! Does my girl need calcium? Does my boy need more meat?
From: Yasuko herron
7c. Re: Help!! Does my girl need calcium? Does my boy need more meat?
From: Sandee Lee

8a. new to raw, dog with blood in diarrhea
From: Angyles
8b. Re: new to raw, dog with blood in diarrhea
From: Sandee Lee
8c. Re: new to raw, dog with blood in diarrhea
From: katkellm
8d. Re: new to raw, dog with blood in diarrhea
From: Andrea

9a. ADMIN/Re: NY Times article--If you weren't a believer in raw feeding
From: costrowski75

10a. Re: maltese puppy wont eat RBM's except chicken necks
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)
10b. Re: How to get giblet bag easy?( Re: maltese puppy wont eat RBM's ex
From: Yasuko herron

11a. feeding dead layer to the dogs
From: Monica A. Joy

12. newbie - with problems
From: m0v1efan

13a. Re: raw diet and kidney failure
From: swilken61

Messages
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1a. Re: I'm new with puppy
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:22 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dancingmommy2002"
<dancingmommy@...> wrote:
Is his diet
> varied enough?

Hi Susan,
Remembering that what you are feeding is infinitely better for your
dog than kibble, and that if you are doing your best to feed your dog,
what else is there, the answer is probably that your diet is too
chicken heavy and doesn't offer enough variety. I'm sure Giselle will
jump in here and provide you with a resourcing link that will be very
helpful to you-i'm lucky i can type on this here computer, let alone
find stuff. In order to keep this affordable for me and to offer
variety that would be out of my budget, i go to the slaughterhouse and
get beef, deer, and pig parts for free. I also look for meat on sale
and often find stuff marked way down because it is the last day they
can sell it at the store for human consumption.

> Now, for the new puppy. We will be picking up a new Assie puppy
> tomorrow to add to our family. How do I transition him to meat?

When you bring your puppy home, just offer him a chicken breast and
forget the kibble. The recommended amount to feed a puppy is 2-3% of
his ideal adult weight divided into 4 meals a day. Have fun, KathyM

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Newbie starting raw diet this week
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:22 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carolejc2007" <mooska2me@...> wrote:
I know you should
> feed 2-3% of their body weight (or ideal body weight) but is this 2-3%
> per day or 2-3% per meal?

Per day. KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: Newbie starting raw diet this week
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:03 am ((PDT))

"carolejc2007" <mooska2me@...> wrote:
> I know you should
> feed 2-3% of their body weight (or ideal body weight) but is this 2-
3%
> per day or 2-3% per meal?
*****
Per day, regardless of how many meals a day you feed. The sum total
is what you're looking at.

I suggest a more flexible way to look at these numbers (although it
does seem beginning raw feeders are less interested in flexibility
and more concerned about trying to nail down every detail) is by the
week.

A dog that gets, say, one and a half pounds of food a day would get--
by extension--10-1/2 pounds (call it 11) a week. This is still 2%,
but looking at the weekly line up gives you more feeding freedom.
Since there is absolutely no requirement (for an otherwise healthy
dog) to feed meticulously matching meals, broadening your scope to a
weekly total allows for some meals to be bigger and funner while
other meals are correspondingly smaller.

And of course feeding once a day provides a flexibility that feeding
twice a day cannot hope to offer.

This will probably seem more reasonable to you after you've been
feeding raw for month or so.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Just started three weeks ago...pit bull losing hair!
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:24 am ((PDT))

Just wanted to throw this out there and see if anyone has any
suggestions!

My girls started their raw diet approximately three weeks ago.
They've been doing great, minus a couple of regurges, which were
promptly eaten again.

I can't help but notice that my pit bull's hair is thinning in small
patches around her hind end. I am not ruling out her chewing on
herself because she had fleas (which I just got rid of). However,
could it be diet related, and if so, is that what the fish oil
capsules are for? I've been giving them chicken halves, venison
(both with and without bone), and pork shoulders and necks, along
with beef liver, tripe and heart, and chicken hearts and gizzards.
They get dried liver as a treat.

I haven't given them fish oil yet, but if someone thinks I should
and that it would help Scarlet's coat come back in, please let me
know!

-Steph
Scarlet, Lucy, and Minkey

Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: Just started three weeks ago...pit bull losing hair!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:26 am ((PDT))

"steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
>> I can't help but notice that my pit bull's hair is thinning in small
> patches around her hind end. I am not ruling out her chewing on
> herself because she had fleas (which I just got rid of). However,
> could it be diet related, and if so, is that what the fish oil
> capsules are for?
*****
My bitch continued to chew after the fleas were physically gone; I
suspect her reaction to flea saliva lingered on for an unconscionably
long time. Based on her response, I'd say you're still seeing flea
fallout. Consider soothing the affected area with aloe vera.

I don't believe three weeks is enough time to see dietary hair loss,
especially since what you are feeding seems reasonable enough. fish
body oil will help support your dog's immune system, so you certainly
are within your rights to use it. Increasing her dose of it is one of
the things I did for my itchy bitch. (I am giving her one 1,000mg
capsule per 10 pounds of dog; for her that is six capsules a day.)
Unless you are primarily feeding naturally-raised livestock and
poultry, I recommend you supplement with fish body oil on a regular
basis.

I haven't given them fish oil yet, but if someone thinks I should
> and that it would help Scarlet's coat come back in, please let me
> know!
*****
Time and a good diet and general skin care is what will help Scarlet's
coat grow back if the cause is fleas. Fish body oil can't hurt, but
it's only one "ingredient" in her recovery. If you are concerned that
this is not a flea reaction, you might want to see the vet for a
scraping.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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3c. Re: Just started three weeks ago...pit bull losing hair!
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:56 am ((PDT))

Thanks Chris, I actually do think her thinning is caused by chewing on
herself due to fleas. The fleas are now gone, the first of the cool
weather is here, and I think things will improve soon. I've seen
fleas on her before, I've just never noticed the hair loss until now.

I need to go buy some fish oil capsules today and start supplementing
both of their diets, regardless of the hair loss. Scarlet still
itches her chest and tummy. She has had a slight rash there for quite
a while now. I am thinking it is just heat rash, but it might
leftover allergies from ki**le and is in the process of going away.

Thanks!

-Steph
Scarlet, Lucy, and Minkey

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
If you are concerned that
> this is not a flea reaction, you might want to see the vet for a
> scraping.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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3d. Re: Just started three weeks ago...pit bull losing hair!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:26 am ((PDT))

"steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
Scarlet still
> itches her chest and tummy. She has had a slight rash there for
quite
> a while now. I am thinking it is just heat rash, but it might
> leftover allergies from ki**le and is in the process of going away.
*****
Steph, my bitch's flea response proceded exactly as you describe!
Started at her back end, then worked its nasty way along her tummy,
up her chest and even down her front legs. Her back end stopped
itching before her front end; she still chews a bit on her legs but
the rest (oh, knock, knock, knock on wood) is in the process of
drying up and looking very tried and worn out. And naked.

Instead of Scarlet's itchies being a leftover response to
kibble "allergies", I suggest that her kibble and yes, perhaps even
the stress of switching to real food, sufficiently undermined her
immune system so that the fleas really, um, got a hold on her. My
bitch hasn't had kibble for six years and is not visibly "allergic"
to anything; my assumption is her false pregnancy weakened her immune
system.

Either way, the end result is an open door policy for parasites.

Good luck and be patient.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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3e. Re: Just started three weeks ago...pit bull losing hair!
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:42 am ((PDT))

Nothing about Scarlet's behavior has changed; she is just itchy.
Good thing winter is coming! Good riddance to bad flea rubbish!!

-Steph
Scarlet, Lucy, and Minkey

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
>
> Instead of Scarlet's itchies being a leftover response to
> kibble "allergies", I suggest that her kibble and yes, perhaps
even
> the stress of switching to real food, sufficiently undermined her
> immune system so that the fleas really, um, got a hold on her. My
> bitch hasn't had kibble for six years and is not
visibly "allergic"
> to anything; my assumption is her false pregnancy weakened her
immune
> system.
>
> Either way, the end result is an open door policy for parasites.
>
> Good luck and be patient.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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3f. Re: Just started three weeks ago...pit bull losing hair!
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:11 pm ((PDT))

Hi Steph,
When i switched to raw, 2 of my dogs started shedding like crazy.
Their coats got real thin and brittle and dull. I was way
disappointed because they actually looked better on kibble. My
ausssie pup, on the other hand, who was about 16 weeks old at the
time, looked like a million bucks almost overnight. When the older 2
were done shedding, their coats came back in thicker, fuller, and
shiner than they ever had been. Its not that their kibble coats were
bad, its just that their raw coats were way better. I started feeding
salmon oil during all of this, and while i think it might have helped,
i think that they were just finding a way to be healthier on their
own. So, i guess the thing i wanted to tell you was that when the
fleas and such clear, i think you will be very pleased with your pit's
new and improved appearance. KathyM

Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Re: regurgitating
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:21 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "great_dane_devotee"
<libpowers@...> wrote:

> Do I give up on pigs feet or feed pigs feet only in the morning?

I agree with what others have said about the pigs feet, it might be
too soon for a newbie dog to eat a foot without any extra meat
added. Give it a week or so and then feed the feet alongside a meaty
meal.

> Do I give up on feeding them chicken?

They only refused chicken for one day, right? And then you went to
the store and got them pigs feet? I wouldn't give up on chicken just
yet. Chicken isn't nearly as aromatic as pork so lots of dogs aren't
interested in it. Since you are starting out you don't want to make
some picky eaters. Try the chicken again and don't give any treats
in between meals. It isn't necessarily important that they love
chicken, but you want to get them to understand they need to try
everything you give them at least once.

> Do I just give the Dane more meat and less bone?

With pork feet, yes. In general you want to feed lots of meat and a
little bone (more like pork shoulder than pork ribs).

> Do you guys just feed in the morning and not in the evening?

I feed whenever really. Sometimes I feed the dogs when the humans
are eating, sometimes when I get home from work, and sometimes bf
feeds them before he leaves for classes in the morning. A flexible
feeding schedule makes all of our lives so much easier.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (10)
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5a. Re: Raw Fed Dog Videos!
Posted by: "Mal Firth" firth_malcolm@yahoo.co.uk firth_malcolm
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:07 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Baker" <scottsbaker@...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks for posting those Lily! :-)
>
> This is my Bullmastiff Rosco. And he does love to eat raw :-)
>
> On 9/16/07, lily_allyn <lily_allyn@...> wrote:
> >
> > Please check out these great videos of what appears to be a
young
> > mastiff eating a raw duck and a raw rabbit:
> >
> > http://youtube.com/watch?v=tzcpofzXe4M
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pXsc4Xu4AQ

Thanks for those, here's a couple showing one of my dogs eating lamb
ribs and a pig's foot.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xRPnwSSd_lk

http://youtube.com/watch?v=r42BknN84gY&mode=user&search=

And one of a dog called Nash eating a venison rib cage.

Happy eating ;-)

Mal Firth

Messages in this topic (3)
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6. Fw: [rawfeeding] Re: Time for a trip to the vet?
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:55 am ((PDT))

After a day of fasting, a few turkey necks, and a regular dose of slippery elm, Kodie's issues cleared up by Friday night. She hadn't gotten into anything to cause the diarrhea, but I'm wondering if maybe she caught some type of a bug while we were out and about last weekend. Our friend lost three pups out of their litter to some unknown virus (vet thought it was some strain of dog flu), so I'm wondering if that might be something circulating around here. Thank you to everyone for their suggestions and help!

Sonja

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Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. Help!! Does my girl need calcium? Does my boy need more meat?
Posted by: "mrskheath" mrskheath@yahoo.co.uk mrskheath
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:57 am ((PDT))

My male is eating around 1 1/2 lb of raw chicken / bone daily (divided
into 2 meals). He weighs 48.5 lbs -this is small for a male sibe? His
overall health is looking great, he seems happier and I am so pleased
that I have become an annoying preacher 'of the raw' to my friends and
family and am desperately trying to win them over too (raw truly is
the best thing ever). Nanuq (my male siberian husky) is really
enjoying it and gaining a little weight too gradually. He still seems
hungry after eating tho and wants more. Is this just a healthy
appetite or should i be feeding more? (1 lb also doesn't look like a
lot does it?)

2nd Question...Should I be concerned about how much calcium my young
bitch is getting? She is also a sibe and weighs 30.8 lbs. She is
eating 1 lb a day of raw chicken a day too (in two meals as of today -
was 3). How will she gain essential calcium for her training for
sledding? Do I need to give her anything more?

Karlene

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: Help!! Does my girl need calcium? Does my boy need more meat?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:42 am ((PDT))

>My male is eating around 1 1/2 lb of raw chicken / bone daily (divided
>into 2 meals). He weighs 48.5 lbs -this is small for a male sibe?

Hi. Sibe means..Siberian Huskies?? I am guessing husky is around 45 to 60 lb in general.

And if you think current weight is your dog's ideal weight,I can calculate like..

Dog weight round up to 49lbx16x0.02= 15.68 oz

this means,if you put thedog ideal weight as current,then, dog 2% daily intake will be roughly 1lb.

If 3%, 49lbx16x0.03=23.52oz

So, roughly 1.5lb daily intake.

So,you are currently feeding 3% daily intake. If your dog is active then,you could try feeding more andsee how he does.If he got chunky andcould not keep weight,then,since you feeding 3 and good looks ,then,you could back to 3% again.

I think somebody who has greyhound feeding 6% daily intake or something,I remember.

It depends on your each dog so,you can try and see if it does good or not good.

>2nd Question...Should I be concerned about how much calcium my young bitch is getting? >She is also a sibe and weighs 30.8 lbs.

Wow,your dog weigh less than my corgi. Your female dog is puppy ? I think your female dog could put more weigh if your dog is adult.

> 3). How will she gain essential calcium for her training for sledding? Do I need to give her >anything more?

I think that you are giving enough calcium by feeding bone I think,and I often hear that performance dog being fed fattier meats or fat skin for Energy before competition.

Since I do not do any agility or some sort,so,I am not sure if it is done or not but I think fat becomes dogs' Energy so,it maybe the one you like to feed?

Of course,if you have just started,you still need to stick to chicken but then after chicken meal, you can move to bit fattier than chicken and see how they do.

yassy

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Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

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Messages in this topic (3)
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7c. Re: Help!! Does my girl need calcium? Does my boy need more meat?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:47 am ((PDT))

Karlene,

Calcium comes from the bones...if you are feeding chicken, she is getting
plenty! Remember, only 10% bones in the overall diet is required...whole
chicken is around 26%. Protein and fat will provide plenty of stamina for
her training.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "mrskheath" <mrskheath@yahoo.co.uk>

2nd Question...Should I be concerned about how much calcium my young
bitch is getting? She is also a sibe and weighs 30.8 lbs. She is
eating 1 lb a day of raw chicken a day too (in two meals as of today -
was 3). How will she gain essential calcium for her training for
sledding? Do I need to give her anything more?

Karlene

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Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. new to raw, dog with blood in diarrhea
Posted by: "Angyles" angyles@yahoo.com Angyles
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:57 am ((PDT))

MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!!

I've been feeding my 3 dogs RAW for about 2.5 weeks now. I have a
standard dachshund, a shih tzu, and a fox terrier mix. The terrier and
dachshund are doing GREAT with this. The shih tzu seems to be having
troubles though and I'm not sure what to do. She seems to really love
it, but she keeps getting diarrhea with blood in it. The blood fades
away after 1 day (I'm only feeding raw in the evening) and then comes
back after she has raw again the next day. I've been feeding pork,
chicken, beef, eggs, hearts, gizzards, all of it seems to cause her
diarrhea. The blood concerned me, but she doens't seem to be in
discomfort and it does go away. I'm jsut really unsure about whther or
not she can handle this. If I switch back to her hypoallergenic kibble
from the vet (she's allergic to wheat) she's fine. no blood, no runs,
jsut perfect ittle poops.

Any advice?

Messages in this topic (4)
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8b. Re: new to raw, dog with blood in diarrhea
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:35 am ((PDT))

That's a lot of variety for a dog newly switched to raw. Sounds like her
digestive system is irritated. I would back off to one protein source, no
eggs or organs until this settles down. You also might want to feed smaller
more frequent meals for now.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Angyles" <angyles@yahoo.com>

She seems to really love
it, but she keeps getting diarrhea with blood in it. The blood fades
away after 1 day (I'm only feeding raw in the evening) and then comes
back after she has raw again the next day. I've been feeding pork,
chicken, beef, eggs, hearts, gizzards, all of it seems to cause her
diarrhea. The blood concerned me, but she doens't seem to be in
discomfort and it does go away.

Messages in this topic (4)
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8c. Re: new to raw, dog with blood in diarrhea
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:11 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Angyles" <angyles@...> wrote:
I've been feeding pork,
> chicken, beef, eggs, hearts, gizzards, all of it seems to cause her
> diarrhea. .... no blood, no runs,
> jsut perfect ittle poops.

I would guess that you have introduced too many new foods too rapidly
for her digestive ability at this time. You can go ahead and keep up
the pace with the other 2 dogs if all is well, but for this little
one, i would pick a meat that is easy to eat, say a chicken breast,
and feed only that until you see she can handle it. You might want to
fast for a meal before you try this. There really is no such thing as
a dog that can't eat raw. As far as the perfect little poops on
kibble, they are the result of additives in the food placed there to
please owners and offer no value to the dog. I think that if you slow
down and feed only chicken for about a week and then pick a different
protein for a week... you'll find she will do much better. KathyM

Messages in this topic (4)
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8d. Re: new to raw, dog with blood in diarrhea
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:11 pm ((PDT))

You've given a lot of variety in 2.5 weeks. Too much variety too
soon often results in loose stools. You might also be feeding her
too much food, especially if she gets a ki**le meal in the mornings.
I won't go into all of the numerous reasons you should ditch the
morning meal, but suffice it to say you should. (I'm inferring there
is a morning meal of something other than raw, if I'm wrong, I
apologize). Bright blood in loose stool isn't uncommon, it is from
her bowels being irritated. Cut back to one protein source for a
week or so and maybe reduce the amount of food she gets. Once the
loose stools are under control you can start adding the variety back
in *slowly*. HTH.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Angyles" <angyles@...> wrote:

> I've been feeding my 3 dogs RAW for about 2.5 weeks now.
<snip>
> it, but she keeps getting diarrhea with blood in it. The blood fades
> away after 1 day (I'm only feeding raw in the evening) and then
> comes back after she has raw again the next day. I've been feeding
> pork, chicken, beef, eggs, hearts, gizzards

Messages in this topic (4)
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9a. ADMIN/Re: NY Times article--If you weren't a believer in raw feeding
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:13 am ((PDT))

This topic is over and done with on this list. Please take all further
discussion to RawChat. Thanks.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. Re: maltese puppy wont eat RBM's except chicken necks
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:52 am ((PDT))

My six-pound Toy Poodle Molly eats only chicken bones - she's been
rawfed for four years in October (since the day I brought her home from
the breeder, with a little red bow on each ear). She eats a wide
variety of meat and meaty bones other than chicken, but she won't ever
eat the other bones, only the chicken bones - usually thigh bones, or
fat little drumsticks. She will occasionally eat a neck (I only have
necks when I buy a whole chicken, which is not very often). Just for the
toothbrushing goodness, I will also give her chicken wings occasionally,
but always with a lot of extra meat of some sort.

I have lectured Molly on the benefits of consuming some of the other,
softer bones, like pork ribs and bunny bones, but she is just not
interested - doesn't even take notes. However; let me give her a fat
little chicken drumstick and she practically cheers. I guess it's not
going to hurt her in the long run to eat only bones from the little
chickens. Her teeth and breath are gorgeous, and her health is robust.
It's perhaps not entirely ideal, but there you have it.

Carolyn J. Garnaas and Molly Anne Malolly, Toy Poodle Extraordinaire

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Messages in this topic (4)
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10b. Re: How to get giblet bag easy?( Re: maltese puppy wont eat RBM's ex
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:10 pm ((PDT))

>She will occasionally eat a neck (I only have necks when I buy a whole chicken, which is >not very often).

Hi. I needed to ask technical question.

I too gett whole chicken if I feed chicken menu but always I have to fight with chicken to get giblet bag out from cavaty.

I sort of digging cavaty with butter knife to get scrape fat out and make me accessible to bag but still,I need to fight good 30 minutes or so. I thaw chicken but still hard to get it without breaking organs or bag itself.

Anybody tell me how to get the giblet bag easy?

I get frustrated with chicken sometimes..

thanks,

yassy

ps;by the way,palette is acting normal now.I am not sure what was bad and causing her such huge amount of vomit...She had solid poo head with soften flatten loose poo ends yesterday,but I assume it isdue she did not get bone from rib digested and vomited up so,could not get firm poo.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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11a. feeding dead layer to the dogs
Posted by: "Monica A. Joy" imajoy@hughes.net imajoy2003
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:11 pm ((PDT))

Does feeding a dead laying hen make your dogs more prone to catching them live?

Hi Trish,
I keep my hens in a coup. They are confined. My poodles will hunt and kill them if they are free ranging. My labs won't.

When I told my husband I was going to feed raw and would he bring back parts for them from deer hunting he said they would start chasing the deer. I said I don't think they chase the deer for food I think they are chasing for the chase and the thrill of running. I've never seen them chasing cows and they eat beef.

Anyway, when I did have chickens free ranging I wasn't feeding raw. So my theory is - they are chasing and killing for the fun and not for dinner.

What have others found?

Monica

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Messages in this topic (21)
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12. newbie - with problems
Posted by: "m0v1efan" susanbrown@sbcglobal.net m0v1efan
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:11 pm ((PDT))

I joined your group a couple of weeks ago. I haven't asked any
questions because I'm sure you get new people all the time and we all
ask the same things. So, I've been mostly reading archives and reading
posts.
All has been going well, until last night.
But first a brief history:
I have two dogs, a two-year old Great Pyrenees and an eight-month old
Briard puppy.
I have been feeding raw for, roughly, two months. I joined your group
to read your archives and make sure I am doing this right.
I was making a mixture of about 75% raw meats (ground beef, raw ground
turkey, chicken gizzards and hearts) then 25% mixed field greens,
carrots, kelp, raw eggs, brewers yeast, blueberries, apples. I formed
this into 1 cup 'pucks' that I gave to the dogs morning and night.
(Magie gets double - she's a growing pup) I also add a spoonful of
cottage cheese and yogurt regularly.
After reading your archives I started giving turkey necks, wings, legs,
and now thigh and leg quarters, to my 2 year old Great Pyr. She did
fine.
On the Briard puppy's first attempt ( couple of weeks ago) I started
her with a turkey neck. She did fine. We repeated.. then moved into
chicken wings - she did fine. And for about a week now, Magie has been
getting the leg and thigh pieces at night. We watch her - she's slow,
but is doing great with it. I was still giving the meat mixture in the
mornings.
The evening meal consisted of leg and thigh piece, a spoonful of
cottage cheese and a spoonful of yogurt.
At 10:00pm last night Magie had diahrea - which she repeated at 11:30,
1:00am and 4:00am. It is the consistency runny of cream of wheat. She
also vomited during the night. It was chicken broth colored and 90%
grass.
On the 2nd diahrea at 11:30pm , I gave her Children's Imodium and
repeated the dose when she went again at 1:00 am.
She went from 4:00am until 11:30 am without any stools. But, this one
at 11:30 am was liquid stool that contained large amounts of grass and
a piece of chicken bone. It was what looked like the end of the leg
with the round part on the end - a little larger than the end of your
pinky finger - about 1/2" long. Also a 1" square, piece of what looked
like raw liver - maybe chicken meat?
The only thing we did differently yesterday was let them try Tripe. I
read that tripe is great - that it can be fed to small puppies with no
problems. It was cut it into 1" by 1/2" strips and gave both girls ate
about 3 pieces. She also had a bite of watermelon yesterday and a bite
of cantelope.
She is still running and playing - chased the cat at 4:00am. Drinking -
not eating and urinating fine - (otherwise I would be at the vet).
Help! I'm not sure what caused this and not sure how to proceed.
Thanks,
Susie
(& Brie and Magie)

Messages in this topic (1)
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13a. Re: raw diet and kidney failure
Posted by: "swilken61" powrfemme@aol.com swilken61
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:12 pm ((PDT))

They also have a diet for dogs with kidney failure, as well as food
items to avoid, and are neutral to whether or not it is cooked. I
researched this group when I was worried by dog might have kidney
problems.

stephany

Messages in this topic (8)
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