[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12045

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Newbie Here
From: PK Shader
1b. Re: Newbie Here
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

2a. Re: meant 104
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

3a. Re: new to raw, dog with blood in diarrhea
From: mgitaville
3b. Re: new to raw, dog with blood in diarrhea
From: Angyles
3c. new to raw, dog with blood in diarrhea
From: Jess Navarro

4a. Re: Just had o share this and a couple ?'s
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

5a. Re: I'm new with puppy
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
5b. Re: I'm new with puppy
From: Giselle

6a. feeding dead layer to the dogs
From: steph.sorensen
6b. feeding dead layer to the dogs
From: Maria

7a. Re: Just started three weeks ago...pit bull losing hair!
From: steph.sorensen

8a. Re: How to get giblet bag easy?( Re: maltese puppy wont eat RBM's ex
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)
8b. Re: How to get giblet bag easy?( Re: maltese puppy wont eat RBM's ex
From: Yasuko herron

9a. Re: How to get giblet bag easy?( Re: maltese puppy wont eat RBM's ex
From: Sonja

10a. help with doxie, back problem, weight and raw feeding
From: Pam Staley

11a. Feeding Heads
From: Renate
11b. Re: Feeding Heads
From: katkellm
11c. Re: Feeding Heads
From: Casey Post

12a. Re: newbie - with problems
From: Andrea
12b. Re: newbie - with problems
From: katkellm

13. New Toy Poodle puppy
From: Kent and Suzy

14. RAW for a small chi puppy :)
From: gheletca_v

15a. Re: Newbie thinking about starting
From: Giselle

16. Goat - how to order
From: marblekallie

Messages
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1a. Newbie Here
Posted by: "PK Shader" Forloveofdogs@gmail.com forloveofdogs
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:12 pm ((PDT))

Hello Everyone

I am sure these questions have been asked to death in one form or
another but here they are again. I have been feeding my 15 year old
Puddin Jack Russell raw for about a 6 months now. I started feeding this
way (he had previously been on a home cooked diet for years) after
researching the benefits of a raw diet. When He started he was in
alleged kidney failure and allegedly had an overwhelming yeast
infection and supposed allergies. He ITCHED like a sob and could
hardly take a few steps without trying to plaintively scratch between
his shoulder blades. Ever where you touched him he would fall over
with the itching. At the same time he lost a great deal of his
cognitive abilities. I have paid a fortune for a lot of veterinary
(holistic and otherwise) head shaking.

Now I know this is not a site about "cures with RF" that is not my
question.

Since he was converted to RF and probiotics along with his bi-weekly
fish and nice hunk of calves liver/kidney/etc. about every 2 weeks and
garlic (he hasn't ever been on any form of parasite preventative
although his blood is tested 2xs per year and he hasn't been
vaccinated in around 10 years) his kidneys and liver are great, and
his cognitive functions are a little better but he has a terrible odor
to him. His ears are a constant source of misery to him even though I
can find nothing in them and he still itches (no yeast on or in him).
Not nearly as bad as he used to but, still, far too much. And his
teeth are gross. They are covered with brown tartar and when he
kisses me I hold my breath for peril of my life his breath has never
been so bad.

It takes him a long time to get through a meal as he has to chew on a
bone (chicken, turkey, lamb ribs) for a long time to get it done when
he remembers how to eat that is. But chew and consume them he does.
When we were cooking for him he had no tolerance for beef (made him
itch) so he only gets calves liver/kidney/etc. once every 2 weeks
which doesn't seem change the dynamics at all for some reason or maybe
it isn't that at all.

As you can see I am confused and would appreciate any and all advice
about making my good, old dog's last years as pleasant and happy as
possible.

Thanks,

PK and Homey Jack

Messages in this topic (10)
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1b. Re: Newbie Here
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:33 pm ((PDT))

Hello PK, welcome to our little site.
I give my dogs Brewers yeast and garlic tablets, they come made together, (you can get them at Trader Joe's or the natural food stores) and they get them as a treat. It has really helped my little pomchi's ears clear up, no smell, and no itching since she started on the tablets. They also help with the flea problem too. If your guy has a problem chewing on bones, that could alter how the teeth get cleaned. Since he has a few problems, maybe a good teeth cleaning is in order, to start off with, since he can't get alot of benefits from bones, right off the bat, since he doesn't chew well, or effectively. Then you can start off on a good note. Good food, clean mouth, and the breath problem should clear up once the teeth are clean. Since there is build up on the teeth, that only a REALLY good bone chewing can clean up years of buildup off of, that is where the bad breath is coming from, and that will continue until you can get those cleaned. Since
your dog is older it may need some sedation, but I would check around and see if you have a holistic vet that can do it with minimul problems, so the dog will be happier. Cleaner teeth also mean happier chewing:)

Usually on the raw diet the breath clears up right away, I know, seen it:) Unless you have a dog with big lappy lips, and then you have to keep those clean with a cloth after they eat a messy meaty meal. But it is worth it, because the breath is still better, it's the lips that stink, and keep the lips clean and no problem.

So, try getting a good cleaning, see if that helps first, sounds like you have the diet part ok, no cooking anymore, and he's got the chewing down, when he wants tooooo, so, you're off to the races:)
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (10)
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2a. Re: meant 104
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:12 pm ((PDT))

Glad to hear it, sounds like you have a full heart as well as a house! Happy feeding:)
jeni

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Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: new to raw, dog with blood in diarrhea
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:13 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Angyles" <angyles@...> wrote:
>
> MODERATORS NOTE:SIGN YOUR MAILS!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> I've been feeding my 3 dogs RAW for about 2.5 weeks now. I have a
> standard dachshund, a shih tzu, and a fox terrier mix. The terrier
and
> dachshund are doing GREAT with this. The shih tzu seems to be having
> troubles though and I'm not sure what to do. She seems to really
love
> it, but she keeps getting diarrhea with blood in it. The blood fades
> away after 1 day (I'm only feeding raw in the evening) and then
comes
> back after she has raw again the next day. I've been feeding pork,
> chicken, beef, eggs, hearts, gizzards, all of it seems to cause her
> diarrhea. The blood concerned me, but she doens't seem to be in
> discomfort and it does go away. I'm jsut really unsure about whther
or
> not she can handle this. If I switch back to her hypoallergenic
kibble
> from the vet (she's allergic to wheat) she's fine. no blood, no
runs,
> jsut perfect ittle poops.
>
> Any advice?
>

******First, if she is allergic to wheat she is likely allergic to
other things so the idea of her being "fine" is probably not quite as
accurrate as you might believe. Second, I agree with Sandee...way
too much variety too early. My dog needed months being on raw before
he could tolerate eggs unless he would be outside a lot that day. An
allergy dog is going to have a weaker immune system and likely need
more time for adjustment than the other dogs so it does not surprise
me she is having problems. The switching between raw and kibble is
definitely not something I would recommend. Get rid of the kibble
and go to one protein source (no eggs and no organs) for several days
to let her system calm down....it may take a full week before she is
ready for something new and then I would SLOWLY introduce new items.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (7)
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3b. Re: new to raw, dog with blood in diarrhea
Posted by: "Angyles" angyles@yahoo.com Angyles
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:59 pm ((PDT))

Thanks everyone!! Honestly, I did get a little over zealous with the
variety. My other two dogs have stomachs of steel and aren't shocked by
anything. This little girl is a new addition to my house (her previous
owners were going to put her down because of her wheat glueten
allergies) and I'm just not used to a dog with sensitivities like this.

I think I will stick with straight chicken for a week and see how she
does. My other two dogs didn't get diarrhea once throughout this entire
transition. So I'll continue giving them a variety since they seem to
love it so much.

Bobbie Jo, WA

Messages in this topic (7)
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3c. new to raw, dog with blood in diarrhea
Posted by: "Jess Navarro" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:03 pm ((PDT))

I agree with everyone else. Raw is a very healthy diet but should be treated
gingerly at first. I would definitely not feed kibble during the transition
as the two foods digest at different rates and might just stress her system
even more. I suggest one small meal of chicken, preferably leg with thigh,
as that contains adequate bone which will help firm things up. Feeding less
food also helps to firm things - if the diarhea is really bad you may want
to fast for a day and then try the chicken. I would feed the chicken legs
for two weeks before introducing anything else.

As a last resort, boiled ground beef with a little rice mixed in always does
the trick for a dog with severe diarhea - if this has been going on for days
you may want to try that until she's firmed up, then try the chicken. Also
be sure she has plenty of water!!

Good luck,
Jessica

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Messages in this topic (7)
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4a. Re: Just had o share this and a couple ?'s
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:14 pm ((PDT))

Wow, great pictures. Sounds like you have a wonderful supply of Antilope, so I think she will be ok on that for while. You usually keep them on one source of meat to make sure there are no problems, so make this your one source for a few weeks, then add the elk:) Looks like she is a natural little Carnivore! I'm loving it, just loving it! Thanks for the pictures, that was terrific. I think you're doing fine, just go slow, and take your time switching it up, your dog will let you know if there are any problems. Make sure you give her some meaty stuff to suppliment the bone in the head, since that is so boney, she might get runny poos, if she doesn't get enough meat. Bone should only be about 10% of the diet, so make sure she gets some of the meat you have too, to help her not get the runs.:)
On the mix of meat you have, I don't think it will be a problem, since they are kind of the same types, both wild and almost the same type, should be ok.
Keep up the great work, your dog is so cute.
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: I'm new with puppy
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:17 pm ((PDT))

I know, it's always a little different when you're starting over. You'll be fine. Just do the chicken, stick with that for several weeks, because that is how you do it when you first start it on the diet, and no since transitioning the dog, just do it, that is the best way to start them, really. We did our dane puppies that way, and they loved it. With the puppy you might go with some smaller amounts and build up, but you will do fine. You've been doing it for 3 years. Keep it up:)
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: I'm new with puppy
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:14 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Susan!
Welcome!
I'm not sure 'where you're at' with raw feeding since you're new to
this group, so I'm going to post a link to the same post I use for
new-to-raw newbies. You can just print it out, scan through the text
and highlight whats relevant for you.

Link; http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374

You really want to get some more variety of protein, and also organs
in their diet.
Lis' List, in my recommendations, will help with that.

Pups generally tolerate a greater variety sooner than older dogs do,
but there isn't any problem with going slowly, either.

The general guideline here is to feed 10% of the pup's estimated IDEAL
adult body weight daily, up until about 4mo. Then, feed 2-3% of the
EIABW daily, in 2-3 meals a day until about 7-9 mo, then 2 meals daily
from about 9-12mo. After that, you can go to 1 meal a day, or every
other day, or gorge 'n fast meals, or any combination of the above.

There are people posting links to online sources of protein/organs and
also new and established coops and more informal buying agreements by
some individuals, so if you want to get in on some of that action, do
some searching in the archives, or post your general location in a new
topic and ask for interested people to respond.

TC, and do let us know how you progress!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I am new to this group and am here to learn. I have a terrier mix
> that I have been feeding raw for 3 years now.
<snip>
Is his diet
> varied enough?
>
> Now, for the new puppy. <snip> How do I transition him to meat? How
> much do I give him, and how often? He is 16 weeks old. Is the
> current diet that I am giving my terrier good for him too? Just in
> larger quantities?
<snip>
> Thanks in advance!
> Susan
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. feeding dead layer to the dogs
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:57 pm ((PDT))

Regarding chasing deer, I can vouch for the fact that they do it for
the thrill of the chase, or that sure seems to be the case with my
dogs. Scarlet (the pit bull) gives deer a great chase, and has been
chasing them long before I ever introduced her to raw. If she ever
happened to bring one down, she'd likely be so bewildered by what had
just happened that I don't know if she'd know what to do next. :) It
is a lot of fun to watch her run top-speed through the woods though!

-Steph
Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Monica A. Joy" <imajoy@...> wrote:
>
> When I told my husband I was going to feed raw and would he bring
back parts for them from deer hunting he said they would start chasing
the deer. I said I don't think they chase the deer for food I think
they are chasing for the chase and the thrill of running. I've never
seen them chasing cows and they eat beef.
>

Messages in this topic (23)
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6b. feeding dead layer to the dogs
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:02 pm ((PDT))

I don't know why people think crazy things like that. I found a VERY
good supply of raw, the woman wanted to start feeding her dogs raw but
her husband thinks if they are fed the animans that they raise the dogs
will start killing them.. Atleast that saves more for me :-) Yesterday
I took one of my dogs to a farm, she wanted to go chase the cows. They
weigh a ton and my dog is a 35lb pit bull X beagle mix. They could have
stomped her down. She was also chasing rabbits. Do I think it has
anything to do with feeding her beef and rabbit? NO, she is a dog, dogs
have instinct just like wolves.

Maria
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Monica A. Joy" <imajoy@> wrote:
> >
> > When I told my husband I was going to feed raw and would he bring
> back parts for them from deer hunting he said they would start
chasing
> the deer. I said I don't think they chase the deer for food I think
> they are chasing for the chase and the thrill of running. I've never
> seen them chasing cows and they eat beef.
> >
>

Messages in this topic (23)
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7a. Re: Just started three weeks ago...pit bull losing hair!
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:58 pm ((PDT))

Thanks, Kathy! That is what I'm hoping! My lab, who is 2 years
old, is doing just fine - her coat has always been very shiny and
pretty. The pit just has a few small patches of thinning hair, but
the hair that is there is very soft and pretty.

I am just going to keep doing what I'm doing and wait and see.
Thanks to everyone for the advice and encouragement!

-Steph
Scarlet, Lucy and Minkey

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "katkellm" <katkellm@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Steph,
> When i switched to raw, 2 of my dogs started shedding like crazy.
> Their coats got real thin and brittle and dull. I was way
> disappointed because they actually looked better on kibble. My
> ausssie pup, on the other hand, who was about 16 weeks old at the
> time, looked like a million bucks almost overnight. When the
older 2
> were done shedding, their coats came back in thicker, fuller, and
> shiner than they ever had been. Its not that their kibble coats
were
> bad, its just that their raw coats were way better. I started
feeding
> salmon oil during all of this, and while i think it might have
helped,
> i think that they were just finding a way to be healthier on their
> own. So, i guess the thing i wanted to tell you was that when the
> fleas and such clear, i think you will be very pleased with your
pit's
> new and improved appearance. KathyM
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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8a. Re: How to get giblet bag easy?( Re: maltese puppy wont eat RBM's ex
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:33 pm ((PDT))

I haven't had a problem digging out the little bag, but it might help if
you thawed the chicken to room temp prior to trying to extract the
little bag. The tv cooking show hosts sometimes recommend bringing meat
to room temp, or close enough, prior to cooking it, so I guess that
won't kill us.

Carolyn J. Garnaas and Molly Toy Poodle, She Who Must Be Rewarded (On a
Variable Schedule)

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Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: How to get giblet bag easy?( Re: maltese puppy wont eat RBM's ex
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:03 pm ((PDT))

> if you thawed the chicken to room temp prior to trying to extract the little bag.

Hi,Carolyn.Thank you for your response. I try to get it to room temperature and see how it does. It isreally messy when I try to get it out but I guess I needed more thaw time or temperature closer to room temperature.

Thanks,

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: How to get giblet bag easy?( Re: maltese puppy wont eat RBM's ex
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:32 pm ((PDT))

Thaw the chicken in a sink full of water and reach in with your hand to get the bag. If that's too gross to stomach, use latex or food service gloves.

Sonja

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10a. help with doxie, back problem, weight and raw feeding
Posted by: "Pam Staley" pam@tlcnaturally.com mogalone2001
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:32 pm ((PDT))

ok....I've decided I'm going raw - we started yesterday - I have a 12
lb mini doxie that is probably at least 4lbs overweight - know that
does't sound like much - but its a LOT on this little guy - and due
to a back injury he had in July we have to get some weight off of
him. He just hurt himself again Sat and now can't put any weight on
his right hind foot and he yelps in pain when you pick him up
'wrong'. The vet has him on predizone (?) for the next few days to
ease the pain and then we'll see....I am hoping he doesn't need back
surgery - but we'll cross that bridge when we have to. Anyway, both
my dogs (my GS Moriah and doxie - Benson) love raw chicken -so we're
beginning with that. I've made a lot of calls this morning to various
local meat markets and none of them sell 'extra' meat that they would
actually not use - will look into the smaller grocery stores and see
if I can get day old or bags of backs or something - but for right
now I'm using what I have in my own freezer.

Anyway - I'm wondering if one type of food/organ/ect..would be better
at this point for my little doxie and if there are any of you out
there with doxies - do you add any glucosamine or anything? I'd sure
like to tackle this situation a little more naturally if possible.

thanks for listening....Pam
Missouri

Messages in this topic (9)
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11a. Feeding Heads
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:32 pm ((PDT))

Just curious, those of you feeding ruminant's heads (presumably including
brains) aren't you afraid of 'mad cow disease'/kreutzfeld-jacob? If not,
why not? There are going to be tons of deer heads around here soon and I
could probably get them for free, but should I?

I think I'm into procrastination mode. I fully intended to buy up a bunch
of chickens today and start feeding my 3 and the 2 fosters raw, but somehow,
didn't do it. What the heck is the matter with me?

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

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11b. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:44 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Renate <renate.tideswell@...> wrote:
>
> Just curious, those of you feeding ruminant's heads (presumably
including
> brains) aren't you afraid of 'mad cow disease'/kreutzfeld-jacob?

Hi Renate,
Since there is no evidence of a canine version of this disease, it
appears that dogs are not susceptible to mad cow disease. Based on
this, I feed cow, pig, lamb, and deer heads without worry
regularly-would feed goat but never had the opportunity. Everyone has
to do what seems right/reasonable to them, and this works for me. KathyM

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11c. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:16 pm ((PDT))

> Just curious, those of you feeding ruminant's heads (presumably including
> brains) aren't you afraid of 'mad cow disease'/kreutzfeld-jacob? If not,
> why not?

Canids have thus far not shown any signs of being able to contract TSE's
like Chronic Wasting Disease as found in deer. One of the (many) theories
as to why CWD has blossomed in recent years is the reduction in wild wolf
populations, wolves being the natural cullers of the sick and weak.

But even wolves in CWD-endemic areas have no indications of developing the
disease themselves.

If you live in a CWD-endemic region and are feeding cats and/or ferrets, you
may want to exercise caution as cats and ferrets (and humans) are
susceptible to TSE's like CWD.

>There are going to be tons of deer heads around here soon and I
> could probably get them for free, but should I?

Yes. Ask for necks, too - it's been my experience that taxidermists are a
great resource for heads and necks and the necks are quite meaty and nice.

>
> I think I'm into procrastination mode. I fully intended to buy up a bunch
> of chickens today and start feeding my 3 and the 2 fosters raw, but
> somehow,
> didn't do it. What the heck is the matter with me?

Brave new world - jump!

Casey

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12a. Re: newbie - with problems
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:32 pm ((PDT))

Did you give them green tripe (unprocessed from a slaughterhouse or
bought online) or did you get the white honeycomb stuff from the
grocery store? The stuff from the grocery store has gone through
boiling and bleaching until it has no nutritional value left. I've
never fed it to my dogs so I don't know if it would cause loose
stools.

It sounds like something upset her stomach (hence all the grass in
the vomit and stool). It also sounds like she is feeling ok now. I
would give her something easy like bone in chicken breast for her
next couple of meals. Once her stools are back to normal she should
be good to go.

A few notes about the regular menu, though:
-Your dogs have great grinders in their mouths, so ground meat really
isn't necessary for them. I see you are giving more whole pieces,
this is great, keep it up! I have noticed that on the occasions that
I do feed ground food the dogs tend to eat too fast and end up
horking it back up or having digestion issues.

-Going to whole foods will make your life a whole lot easier too
since you won't have to add in all the vegetation and fruits as
well. Your dogs have no nutritional need for these things, after
all. If they really like carrots or some other veggie, they can be
given as treats if you want. But you shouldn't let veggies take up
space in the food rations.

-You have pretty big dogs so I would feed much larger than wings,
legs, and thighs. Even if they do appear to chew well, they really
can swallow a wing whole. Feeding big food ensures that they have to
rip and tear the food apart. Also, the time that it takes to get
into the food allows their stomach juices to start flowing before the
food gets there. This allows for better digestion.

Let us know how she does.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "m0v1efan" <susanbrown@...> wrote:

> I joined your group to read your archives and make sure I am doing
> this right. I was making a mixture of about 75% raw meats (ground
> beef, raw ground turkey, chicken gizzards and hearts) then 25%
> mixed field greens, carrots, kelp, raw eggs, brewers yeast,
> blueberries, apples. I formed this into 1 cup 'pucks' that I gave
> to the dogs morning and night. (Magie gets double - she's a
> growing pup) I also add a spoonful of cottage cheese and yogurt
> regularly.
<snip>
> And for about a week now, Magie has been getting the leg and thigh
> pieces at night. We watch her - she's slow, but is doing great
> with it. I was still giving the meat mixture in the mornings.
> The evening meal consisted of leg and thigh piece, a spoonful of
> cottage cheese and a spoonful of yogurt.
> At 10:00pm last night Magie had diahrea - which she repeated at
> 11:30, 1:00am and 4:00am. It is the consistency runny of cream of
> wheat. She also vomited during the night.

Messages in this topic (3)
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12b. Re: newbie - with problems
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:34 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "m0v1efan" <susanbrown@...> wrote:

> Help! I'm not sure what caused this and not sure how to proceed.

Hi Susie,
I think that you might want to rethink your menu and drop the ground
and veggies and cottage cheese and whatever. Wings and necks are too
small to feed to dogs the size of yours unless they are still attached
to the whole bird. You don't need to feed wings and necks in order to
work your way up to feeding chicken quarters. Please try just feeding
a meal of one protein source, i would say chicken would be great for
you, in as large a hunk as possible, think quarters or halves, which
will give you the approximate amount you want to feed determined by
2-3% of the dog's ideal weight. Tripe is one of those foods that
should be started slow to discover bowel tolerance, butI don't think
that you fed too much tripe, just too much of lots of unnecessary other
stuff. Down the road aways, if your dog likes to eat fruit as a treat
when you are eating some, go for it. HTH KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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13. New Toy Poodle puppy
Posted by: "Kent and Suzy" sands3nv@yahoo.com sands3nv
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:34 pm ((PDT))

Hi there, I am new to the group, but not new to raw feeding. We
just lost our 7 year old Chow/Golden Retriever, Goldie to cancer.
She was a treasure and a blessing to our family for 6 years. I only
started feeding raw food a year ago, when Goldie was so ill and near
death. She was always chewing and licking her feet, sneezing, doing
that reverse sneeze thing and she was so lethargic and her coat was
a mess. She also ate very little, always acting like she didn't
like her food. Well, I learned about raw feeding and in 2 days, we
had a new dog! She was full of energy and was like a puppy again!
All of the allergy-like symptoms went away in time and she developed
a healthy appetite. This last year was great and I was so happy to
see her healthy again. What I didn't know, was that she had cancer
and most likely, had it most of this last year. She got worse and
worse in the last few weeks. I know that her diet gave her a better
year than she would have had without good food. I am happy we
learned about proper diet and nutition for her. Now, thanks to a
kind neighbor, we have become owners of a 5 month old Toy Poodle,
Darth Schnood. He has only been fed commercial food. That will
change. That is my intro...now my question. How should I start
with the poodle? It was easy with Goldie, since she was older, but
with this puppy, I am trying to figure out how to start and what the
best is for such a little dog. I would appreciate any and all
suggestions.
Thanks, Suzy

Messages in this topic (1)
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14. RAW for a small chi puppy :)
Posted by: "gheletca_v" gheletca_v@yahoo.ca gheletca_v
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:34 pm ((PDT))

I have a long hair Chihuahua that right now is almost 12 weeks old
and 0.565 grams.

She has been on Purina pro plan chicken and rice because the breeder
had her on this and for at lest a little wile I can't change her. I
am afraid that she has enough stress right now with changing homes.
Needless to say what crap of a food this is. It has byproducts,
animal digest, corn gluten meal and other ingredients that make me
cringe every time I feed her.

I would like to have her on raw but I never expected her to be so
tiny and she also likes to lick everything including us, the people.
So, I have a few questions:

- Can we get something from being licked by her if she is on a raw
diet?
- How much am I suppose to feed a puppy that is so small? She eats
about 2 teaspoons of canned food or about 10 pieces of kibble …lol.
- Are there any sites or forums where I can learn more about RAW
feeding a small Chihuahua puppy?
- Considering that she can't really chew on bones what can I give
her? I can't find any chicken necks ….
- Where can I get tripe from?

I have been reading a lot and I also have a few books on raw but they
don't say anything about such a small puppy.
Any other information is welcomed as I am fairly new to this.

TIA >

Messages in this topic (1)
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15a. Re: Newbie thinking about starting
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:49 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Caroline!
Welcome to the raw side!
Follow this link, it should answer some of your Qs;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374
its post # 141374 on the group's website.

<snip>
> A couple of things I am unsure of:
>
> My dogs are Boxers one 7 who has a narrowing of his spine and
> suffers with ear problems on and off.
<snip>
> The second is 11 and has CDRM, she gets about in a wheelchair and is
> very healthy and active except she can't stand up.
<snip>
>
> I know the diet will not cure them but hope I will see some
> improvements.
<snip>

**** I think that you will be pleased and surprised at the almost
immediate, and long term effects that raw feeding has on your dog's
outer appearance, inner health and demeanor. My recommendations
suggest a week or two on the first protein, chicken, and about a week
on each new one you introduce. You may want to take it more slowly
than that, and be proactive in tweaking the amount of edible bone you
serve them, to minimize the possibility of loose stools and undigested
bone in the beginning. W/rec/k bones are not what we are about here!
They can wear teeth down, and cause breakage! The bones you serve your
dogs should be mostly edible, NOT rec, or soup bones! Most beef bones
are too hard! ****
>
> Being in the UK how do I get hold of the raw food?

**** Lis' List is a part of my recommendations in the link. you may
have to think about the suggestions a bit to 'translate' it to useful
info for your side of the pond, but they are very creative ideas! ****

> If I go to a butcher etc what do I ask for?

**** Any part of any critter (except for beef and a few other large
bones) is fair game! Its your job to suss out what you can afford to buy

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts.html
This link has charts (click on them to enlarge) with the names of
cuts. They are US and Australian charts, but you should be able to
figure out what to get, even if you print out the charts and take them
with for comparison. ****

> How do I change over, I have read where you say do straight away,
> but any tummy problems with Bonnie with CDRM could be a problem
> What if they don't eat it, Londo the youngest is very picky and a
> little thin.

**** Most dogs take to raw feeding NPs. Some dogs are unsure, after a
lifetime of eating the equivalent of eating cereal. Tough love now can
save you all some worry and 'picky' eating habits later. Just
remember, some dogs have been chastised for most of their lives for
scarfing 'people food' and scrounging in the trash - they may be
apprehensive that they could be punished if they attempt to eat real
meat at first. Your thin, picky Londo may need a bit of help, if he,
or your other dogs don't eat their meals the first time, plan for a
little 'sweetening' for the next regularly scheduled meal time.
You can 'ribbon' the meat on the bone with heavy kitchen shears to
give him a place to start tearing. There's a few other things you can
do to raw meat to entice a new-to-raw dog
to give it a try.
1) sear it quickly on both sides in a hot pan.
2) Put the meat into a plastic bag and submerge it in a pan of very
warm water for several minutes.
3) cut slits in the meat and rub Parmesan cheese, bits of cooked meat,
cat food or something else stinky and familiar into the slits.
4) Pour some blood juices, canned fish water or a little spaghetti
sauce onto the meat.
5) Put it down for 10-15 minutes, then take up whatever isn't eaten
until the next regularly scheduled mealtime. Hunger is a very tasty
sauce! No cheating with coaxing, treats, snacks or sharing your own
food with them! ****
>
> Sorry if these are already answered, I am just a little unsure.

**** NPs, that why this list is here! ****
TC and keep us abreast of your progress!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Regards
> Caroline, Bonnie and Londo

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16. Goat - how to order
Posted by: "marblekallie" marble@pipeline.com marblekallie
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:42 pm ((PDT))

Hi:

I am just about to plonk down on a whole goat which can be cut to
order. I have 4 mini dachshunds weighing an average of 10lbs -- some
less, some more. I also live in an apartment in the city, so very
large meals don't work well. How should I ask for it to be cut? Goat
for me is the most successful of all red meat.

Philippa Jordan
New York City

Messages in this topic (1)
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