[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11979

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
From: esmolensky
1b. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
From: mgitaville
1c. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
From: Sandee Lee
1d. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: Neyla won't eat lamb neck bones anymore - help!
From: Andrea
2b. Re: Neyla won't eat lamb neck bones anymore - help!
From: Jen

3a. Re: where to feed dogs
From: Olga
3b. Re: where to feed dogs
From: Sonja
3c. Re: where to feed dogs
From: mgitaville
3d. Re: where to feed dogs
From: Andrea

4a. Re: pork ribs
From: morkydzgrl

5.1. Re: Confused
From: Olga

6a. Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
From: vickies_28
6b. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
From: Olga
6c. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
From: costrowski75
6d. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
From: Andrea

7a. not eating enough
From: ptrsrgnt
7b. Re: not eating enough
From: valdeere @msn.com
7c. Re: not eating enough
From: mgitaville
7d. Re: not eating enough
From: Andrea

8a. Re: snack ideas for small breed (alaskan klee kai) and meal plan
From: Tina Deloia
8b. Re: snack ideas for small breed (alaskan klee kai) and meal plan
From: mgitaville
8c. Re: snack ideas for small breed (alaskan klee kai) and meal plan
From: Andrea

9a. New and with issues
From: Anita
9b. Re: New and with issues
From: Olga

Messages
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1a. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
Posted by: "esmolensky" esmolensky@yahoo.com esmolensky
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:39 am ((PDT))

***EDITED BY MODERATOR. FAILURE TO TRIM MAY RESULT IN LOST POSTS.***

I have a 7mos. old BB puppy at around 80# for now.
I feed him close to 4# a day. I think I'm feeding him too much, but
he's not gaining any weight and he's been on raw about 10 days.

E & Reagan

Messages in this topic (8)
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1b. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:43 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "esmolensky" <esmolensky@...>
wrote:
>
> ***EDITED BY MODERATOR. FAILURE TO TRIM MAY RESULT IN LOST POSTS.***
>
>
> I have a 7mos. old BB puppy at around 80# for now.
> I feed him close to 4# a day. I think I'm feeding him too much, but
> he's not gaining any weight and he's been on raw about 10 days.
>
> E & Reagan
>

*****Yes, 4lbs for an 80# pup is too much. You should aim to start
between 2%-3% of his body weight which in this case is equal to
roughly 1.5lb to 2.4 lbs. I would lean closer to 2-2.5lbs personally
given a pups have a pretty good metabolism generally at 7 months.

Now, with regards to weight gain..... is he looking to skinny? (bear
in mind that around 8-9 months most mastiffs tend to be pretty lanky
and "leggy" looking). One of the biggest mistakes that can be made
for a giant breed dog is to put too much weight and stress on their
joints while young and growing. Unless the pup is very thin (can see
all the ribs) I would be reluctant to feed too much at this point.

Surprised you have not had a blowout mess at feeding 4lbs/day to be
honest!

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (8)
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1c. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:51 pm ((PDT))

Is that amount approximately 2-3% of his expected adult weight?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "esmolensky" <esmolensky@yahoo.com>

I have a 7mos. old BB puppy at around 80# for now.
I feed him close to 4# a day. I think I'm feeding him too much, but
he's not gaining any weight and he's been on raw about 10 days.

Messages in this topic (8)
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1d. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:03 pm ((PDT))

"mgitaville" <mgitaville@...> wrote:
>
> *****Yes, 4lbs for an 80# pup is too much. You should aim to start
> between 2%-3% of his body weight which in this case is equal to
> roughly 1.5lb to 2.4 lbs. I would lean closer to 2-2.5lbs
personally
> given a pups have a pretty good metabolism generally at 7 months.
*****
Now hold on. If the adult dog will weigh 200lb, then four pounds is
two percent of adult weight and there's nothing wrong with that. And
there's no question that a Mastiff ain't gonna grow up small.

In fact, even if the adult will weigh less than 200lb, an active
hooligan puppy may well need more than 2% ideal adult weight. I
realize hooliganism in a BC pup is different from a Mastiff puppy's
hooliganism, but my BC pup--almost a year now and weighing 31 pounds--
eats an amount that, if one were counting, would appropriately feed a
50lb dog.

Except when doling out food to young pups for which adult weight is a
mystery, there's no particular reason to base feeding amounts on
current puppy weight. If one wanted to feed a young pup this way,
the recommended percentage is 10%...in which case four pounds would
not be enough!

However, don't go there. Just base amounts on a. ideal adult weight
or b. what works best for the pup right here, right now, today.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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2a. Re: Neyla won't eat lamb neck bones anymore - help!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:40 am ((PDT))

If the shank bone got stuck on her teeth a couple of times I would
expect that it made her gums a little sore. Chicken bones are so easy
to crush I doubt it bothers her mouth. I'd put the necks away for a
week or so and try again when you are sure her mouth doesn't hurt.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Jen" <jboydmorin@...> wrote:

> Before feeding these two, I tried some lamb shanks that Peter had
> offered to me and Neyla got the bone stuck on her teeth a couple of >
times. I pulled it off and gave it back to her. When it happened >
another time or two, I just threw the bone away.

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Neyla won't eat lamb neck bones anymore - help!
Posted by: "Jen" jboydmorin@gmail.com choirgirl_21
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:42 pm ((PDT))

The only problem with that is that it was about 3 weeks ago at this
point and she hasn't had any bones other than chicken since. Do you
think any resulting soreness could last that long?

Jen

-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> If the shank bone got stuck on her teeth a couple of times I would
> expect that it made her gums a little sore. Chicken bones are so easy
> to crush I doubt it bothers her mouth. I'd put the necks away for a
> week or so and try again when you are sure her mouth doesn't hurt.
>
> Andrea
>
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:40 am ((PDT))

I usually feed my dogs in their crates. I have fed in the kitchen a
few times and used a couple of chairs from the dining room to block
one entrance and I stood in the other entrance.

After a while you should be able to remove the blockades when your
dogs learn where the "eating place" is. I know that as soon as I pick
up my dogs' food they jump up and run off to the spare bedroom (where
their crates are).

Olga

Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:09 am ((PDT))

Use an old bathrug, shower curtain, or vinyl tablecloth and start feeding them only on there (or crate, that was a good suggestion, too!). If they take the food off, just keep putting it back on the mat until they get the idea. My Lab is so conditioned that we've noticed she takes her chew toys onto her "eating mat" to chew on them.

I'd probably discontinue letting your dogs eat their chewies on the furniture....some dogs might be able to make the distinction, but in general it wouldn't be fair to expect them to know what is OK to eat on the couch and what isn't.

Sonja

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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3c. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:58 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sonja" <ladyver@...> wrote:
>
> Use an old bathrug, shower curtain, or vinyl tablecloth and start
feeding them only on there (or crate, that was a good suggestion,
too!). If they take the food off, just keep putting it back on the
mat until they get the idea. My Lab is so conditioned that we've
noticed she takes her chew toys onto her "eating mat" to chew on
them.
>
> I'd probably discontinue letting your dogs eat their chewies on the
furniture....some dogs might be able to make the distinction, but in
general it wouldn't be fair to expect them to know what is OK to eat
on the couch and what isn't.
>
> Sonja
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

****Agree completely with this post. I think it is important to
condition dogs to having an "eating place" for many purposes, but in
particular when having a multiple dog home. With each dog having
their own place to eat it helps them resist temptations to check out
the other's food.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (5)
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3d. Re: where to feed dogs
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:59 pm ((PDT))

I started by feeding my pups in their crate so they would stay put. As
they and their food got bigger it became less feasible to shove a 60lb
dog and side of goat into a kennel, so I had them eat on an old towel
in front of the kennel. Any time they tried to take the food off the
towel, I'd just pick it up and replace it back on their spot.
Eventually they get the idea and know to eat on the towel, wherever I
decide to put it.

Of course, all this training falls apart when they have an especially
fun "chew toy" that they want to really get into. I'm still working on
explaining to them that Mom doesn't want to share the cow foot, but
thanks for thinking of me, now get off the couch.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "swilken61" <powrfemme@...> wrote:

> Any tips on how to keep the dogs from running all over the house
> with their food?

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: pork ribs
Posted by: "morkydzgrl" ShankMa4@aol.com morkydzgrl
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:52 am ((PDT))

OMGOSH!!! OLGA!!! That is going to be sooo helpful to me. Now I will
be able to understand all these parts that are so unusual to me!!!
THANK YOU SO MUCH OLGA!!

And a huge thank you to everyone else that has answered my questions.
Ihave saved them for reference when my anxiety raises up.

Reading the answers to everyone else questions have been invaluable for
me. I NEVER EVER would be able to venture into this "strange" new
world of feeding without this support. Honestly, I feel so weird and
alone for doing this. I barely even tell my friends...my kids think
I'm nuts, sometimes I think I'm nuts. This is such a departure from
the status quo. I am quitely learning and hoping this all works out.

You all do a great service by answering these questions.

Cindi

> Here's a little reference that will help you to identify animal parts:
> http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/meatcharts.html
>
> I think you can feed most any part of pork, except for things that are
> too small or have artificially sharp bones (like pork chops).
>
> Olga
>

Messages in this topic (15)
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5.1. Re: Confused
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:58 am ((PDT))

Hi Tina,

You will find that no one on this list (or mostly anyway) buys their
dog's food from the pet store. We shop at grocery stores, butchers,
raw-feeding co-ops, perhaps the occasional hunter friend and a handful
of other sources. The food in human stores is, by definition, human
grade so there aren't any problems with feeding it. In fact, I would
expect it to be monitored closer than raw pet food.

I'm not a fan of pre-made foods because for one, they are ground so
you don't get any chewing benefits. Also, they often have all kinds
of extra junk like veggies, fruit, and a whole slew of unnecessary
supplements. Sometimes they also have too much bone (and thus not
enough meat) because well, meat is the expensive part. Not to mention
that these foods are pretty darn expensive. Not sure how much you're
paying per pound but I aim for around $1/lb as an average.

I feed my dogs chicken, turkey, pork, beef, lamb and several kinds of
fish on a regular basis. I got some rabbit once and while it was a
big hit, it was way out of my budget at $3/lb. I have seen quail and
cornish game hens at the store also, but they're more expensive than
I'd like and my dogs are bigger so I stick to larger birds (BTW, I
believe ox tail comes from beef). Right now I've got a lead on some
venison in my area, so I'm hoping to add that to the rotation as well.
You definitely don't need to shop at a pet store to get variety.

BTW, trimming your message means to delete the unnecessary bits from
the message you are replying to, and keeping only the parts that you
are responding to.

Hope that helps!
Olga

Messages in this topic (28)
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6a. Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:58 am ((PDT))

Hi
I am very glad I found this group. Lots of good info. So here is my
question. My 5 month old puppy has been eating raw since we got him
about 3 weeks ago (refused to eat dry food for 3 days and then started
raw). So.. He does well with chicken and beef, bones in or out, but
doesn't go crazy about pork with bone. He will eat the meat chunks of
pork just fine with great appetite, but if I give him a port neck or
sholder, whatever has bone in it - he would just look at it funny,
sniff it, leak it and eventually in about 10 min start eating it. But
then will not finish it alghouth seems hungry. I don't think it's the
chewing problem,, since he is chewing on sticks and other hard things
like there is no tomorrow. Maybe it's something about the pork? He
wouldn't eat the pig foot eather, just snacked on it and wanted to
bury it. Could it be that pork is too fatty for him?

Any suggestions.
Vickie

Messages in this topic (4)
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6b. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:29 am ((PDT))

Maybe it's the tough skin or the size of the item that is intimidating
to him? Have you tried cutting into the meat with a knife so that he
has "slots" he can grab on to?

One of my dogs was not keen on eating big items, so we had to start
with regular items and work our way up. If you offer him a whole
chicken is he willing to eat that?

Olga

Messages in this topic (4)
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6c. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:42 pm ((PDT))

"vickies_28" <vickies_28@...> wrote:
> My 5 month old puppy has been eating raw since we got him
> about 3 weeks ago (refused to eat dry food for 3 days and then
started
> raw). So.. He does well with chicken and beef, bones in or out, but
> doesn't go crazy about pork with bone.
*****
-Could be he's teething and pork bones hurt.
-Could be he doesn't like pork, these things happen.
-Could be he doesn't like the pork you buy--might there be an odor to
it? These are raw pork necks, right?
-Could be you are feeding a lot of bone and expecting him to eat it
all. How much bone are you expecting the kid to eat?

I think if pork were too fatty you'd see evidence in stool quality.
Fat as a food item generally appreciated, perhaps the texture of the
fat bothers him.

IMO it sounds like you're feeding him plenty of bone. You might
simply back off a bit, not press the issue with such a young lad;
feed him pork meat and try pork bones later. And I think it would be
a good idea to check his teeth/mouth to make sure this isn't a
mechanical problem.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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6d. Re: Dog not wanting to eat pork necks
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:43 pm ((PDT))

It could be that he's teething. Both of my pups flat refused to work
on any bones that weren't chicken bones while they were teething.
Tycho even went so far as to strip all the meat off of a duck, just
leaving the bare frame. I was worried until I noticed that he had
begun losing his puppy teeth. Now that all his adult chompers are in
he's back to demolishing anything he is given. Geiger had an
aversion to anything that contained a bone in it, but he'd eat the
meat off of it.

If he eats boneless pork without himming and hawing, that kind of
rules out an aversion to pork. What kind of bone in beef does he get
and does he gnaw on the beef bones?

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@...>
wrote:

> He will eat the meat chunks of pork just fine with great appetite,
> but if I give him a port neck or sholder, whatever has bone in it -
> he would just look at it funny, sniff it, leak it and eventually
> in about 10 min start eating it. But then will not finish it
> alghouth seems hungry.

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. not eating enough
Posted by: "ptrsrgnt" ptrsrgnt@yahoo.ca ptrsrgnt
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:59 am ((PDT))

Hello,
I have introduced my dogs before. They are both female Labradoodles
(different parents, different sizes).
Maggie is now 9 months old and weighs about 35 pounds and Gypsy is 7
months old and weighs about 60 pounds.
They have both been on raw food for about 4 months and at the start
they loved it. Most meals consist of chicken or pork with mixed,
chopped organ meats for one meal every few days.
I feed them twice a day with Maggie getting 5 or 6 ounces for
breakfast and 7 or 8 ounces for supper. Gypsy gets double this.
At first they would gobble the food up quickly but now they hesitate
more and more. Gypsy will eat both breakfast and supper with some
hesitation and though Maggie will eventually eat breakfast she just
sniffs at supper and now, most times she won't even try it. This means
that most days she is only eating 5 or 6 ounces. She won't eat a
bigger meal for breakfast.
I have tried them with beef but niether of them are keen on it.
They get a walk every morning and they run around the fields for about
an hour before breakfast. I would have thought that this will give
them an appetite for breakfast and indeed it used to.
They also get a one hour run in the evening about 2 hours after their
supper (if they eat it, that is).
They both seem to be in very good health and are not fat or thin.
I am just concerned at their lack of enthusiasm for the meals and even
more so as Maggie is refusing her supper most days.
Has anyone had to deal with dogs that just seem to "go off" eating raw
food and can someone offer suggestions?

Thanks for your input
Peter

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: not eating enough
Posted by: "valdeere @msn.com" valdeere@msn.com vahl0426
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:32 am ((PDT))

Hi Peter,

I am brand new to this group (not even an hour yet!). I came here to learn
about raw feeding (I currently know very little) but I have to ask, if your
dogs are neither too fat nor too thin and are in good health, then why the
concern about one of your dogs skipping the evening meal?

Perhaps it's the predominantly fed chicken and pork that your dogs need a
change from???...do you find they eat better on the days you also feed organ
meat?

Please know that I am not asking these questions to be critical, I'm really
trying to educate myself about raw feeding so I can give my dogs the best!

Val

Messages in this topic (4)
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7c. Re: not eating enough
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:42 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "valdeere @..." <valdeere@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> I am brand new to this group (not even an hour yet!). I came here
to learn
> about raw feeding (I currently know very little) but I have to ask,
if your
> dogs are neither too fat nor too thin and are in good health, then
why the
> concern about one of your dogs skipping the evening meal?
>
> Perhaps it's the predominantly fed chicken and pork that your dogs
need a
> change from???...do you find they eat better on the days you also
feed organ
> meat?
>
> Please know that I am not asking these questions to be critical,
I'm really
> trying to educate myself about raw feeding so I can give my dogs
the best!
>
> Val

*******Val, your question is in fact right on target. If the dogs
are not thin then it really is as simple as the pups have learned how
to self-regulate their eating. They do not need to eat so do not.
They are not "going off raw" as was suggested.

At this point and age I would first suggest moving to one meal. I
think their enthusiasm would increase and it would give the
opportunity for better variety with larger (and more interesting)
meals. I am not sure what is being fed at 5-6 oz. since even the leg
quarters I use are about 1lb each. If the answer is something like
chicken thighs or wings than I would say that it is time to move to
something bigger - to easy for these dogs to try and swallow
something that size whole.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (4)
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7d. Re: not eating enough
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:44 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Peter, I have a couple of questions so we can figure this out.
First of all, how do the dogs look? Does it seem like they are losing
weight? Second, is their food cut up into small parts or are they
eating whole chicken quarters/pork roasts?

My GSP pup put himself on once a day feedings at about 6 months old.
I offered him food twice a day, but he just quit eating one of the
meals. He also started eating more the second meal, though. I'd
just let Maggie eat once a day. Offer a half chicken instead of a
quarter and let her eat as much as she wants. Geiger goes through
phases when he'll just decide he's not all that into food, especially
when the temperature spikes. He doesn't get too skinny, so I've
never worried about it.

Your girls are around the age when they might just prefer eating once
a day, and if they aren't losing weight I wouldn't fret about the
amount of food they eat. Some dogs are just easy keepers. Just
don't fuss around them if they don't eat, you don't want to make
picky eaters. You give breakfast/dinner, if they don't want it,
kitchen is closed.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ptrsrgnt" <ptrsrgnt@...> wrote:
> Gypsy will eat both breakfast and supper with some
> hesitation and though Maggie will eventually eat breakfast she just
> sniffs at supper and now, most times she won't even try it.

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: snack ideas for small breed (alaskan klee kai) and meal plan
Posted by: "Tina Deloia" tinamdeloia@msn.com tinamdeloia
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:08 am ((PDT))

Thanks Andrea, So where do you purchase such strange cuts of meat? I can find beef, duck, chicken, pork but are you saying you buy these and the others in a grocery store, cut them up and freeze them yourself? Or do you buy them from a specialty pet store frozen? I truly have no clue.

Tina

Messages in this topic (5)
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8b. Re: snack ideas for small breed (alaskan klee kai) and meal plan
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:00 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Tina Deloia <tinamdeloia@...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks Andrea, So where do you purchase such strange cuts of
meat? I can find beef, duck, chicken, pork but are you saying you
buy these and the others in a grocery store, cut them up and freeze
them yourself? Or do you buy them from a specialty pet store
frozen? I truly have no clue.
>
> Tina
>

******Tina, you have the right idea with the grocery store. Where
you find meat is really up to how resourceful you want to be. For
example, those of use living in a city often have an abundance of
grocery chains where we can always find something that is a deal.
However, even as the city dweller I still rely on a butcher that gets
me a good deal on ribs, heart and liver. I rely on the Asian market
for Pork shoulders at a steal along with odd items that my guys like
as snacks such as chiken feet, pig ears, pigs feet, etc. Then there
are co-ops you can join that allow you access to particular items,
for example, rabbit you may desire. And now, with fall around the
corner it is always time to start reminding all the hunters that I am
ready to take anything they may have to offer. (I had 2 whole deer
legs in my freezer cut up last winter for free!)

Some people may have great access to items like elk and goose - if
you can find a way to get it without blowing the budget great!
However, a nice steady foundation of chicken, beef, and pork will
take you most of the way there if needed.

The only thing I use a pet store for is the occassional toy. Once
you go raw you realize your dogs would much prefer a slab of ribs to
chew on for an hour than any dog chew or bone they may have.

Hope this helps some.
Marguerita

Messages in this topic (5)
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8c. Re: snack ideas for small breed (alaskan klee kai) and meal plan
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:01 pm ((PDT))

Depending on your area, there are lots of different ways to find good
foodstuffs. I get most of the regular stuff at grocery stores when
they have good sales. I live in Central California and there is a
buying group made up of raw feeders that gets really good prices on
bulk meats. If I wanted to buy lamb or goat at the store it would be
way out of my price range (I try to keep as close to $1/lb as
possible). But through the buying group I can get lamb and goat for
around $1.40/lb. Where do you live? It's likely we can find a buying
group near you.

You can also order online from suppliers. The mid-eastern US has some
online distributors like prey4pets and hare-today that you can buy
from. For me the shipping cost gets to be too big.

There are also places you can look in your immediate area. If you have
*real* butchers that process whole animals you can probably get some
good stuff from them for really cheap or free. I hear that
taxidermists have to pay a rendering plant to pick up their "leftovers"
so they are very willing to give the meat etc to someone who will use
it.

To start out with you can go with what you can find. As you and your
little one are getting used to it you can search for more exotic
foods. Ethnic markets are good places to find more unusual meats,
organs and parts too.

If you have more questions, just holler!

Andrea <---Jealous you have a cute fluffy little klee kai. I always
wanted one

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Tina Deloia <tinamdeloia@...> wrote:

So where do you purchase such strange cuts of meat? I can find beef,
duck, chicken, pork but are you saying you buy these and the others in
a grocery store, cut them up and freeze them yourself?

Messages in this topic (5)
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9a. New and with issues
Posted by: "Anita" craftyhoosiermama@gmail.com anita42776
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:08 am ((PDT))

Hi,
I'm new to the group but I've had some prior experience with feeding a
raw diet to my 2 now gone dogs.
We now have a 1 yr old lab/pointer mix who has mild problems like
tartar on her teeth and flaky skin.
My major issue is with our overweight cat who has been having
reoccuring UTI's. He's about 7 yrs old, not too picky of an eater but
I'm just not sure were to start.
The last time I did this it was for dogs and the method I was using
called for many steps with fruits and vegetables being chopped and
mixed with soaked, then cooked grains plus a laundry list of
supplements. Not only was it a huge headache to gather and prepare but
the cost was too much for us to keep up with and to top it off the
dogs had digestive issues with the veggies, fruit and grains, go figure!

I'm sure our pup will LOVE the new diet but I'm just having a hard
time getting it through my head that meats, bones and eggs are the
only things needed to keep her healthy and strong.

Now with the cat I might need some ideas of where to start and how to
feed him.

I have 2 small kids so any experience in keeping the RF contained to a
feeding area would be helpful. Thanks

Anita

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: New and with issues
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:28 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Anita" <craftyhoosiermama@...> wrote:
> I'm sure our pup will LOVE the new diet but I'm just having a hard
> time getting it through my head that meats, bones and eggs are the
> only things needed to keep her healthy and strong.

I know, I had a hard time wrapping my head around it too. All those
lists of ingredients on pet food really make us think that more
complicated must be better, but it's not. Grains - well, I think we
can all agree they don't need those. Many of the veggies are actually
detrimental like sugary ones, or nightshade veggies which are bad for
arthritic dogs. Similarly with the supplements - kelp can mess with
thyroid function, alfalfa is a frequent allergy trigger, etc.

After reading this list I decided that it was better to start with the
basics (meat, bone, and organs), and only add other things as they
became needed. At this point we've only added fish oil capsules, but
dogs with medical conditions may well need other supplements added.

> I have 2 small kids so any experience in keeping the RF contained to
> a feeding area would be helpful.

I feed my two dogs in their crates. It's easy, builds a positive
association, and they clean up after themselves nicely. ;) Other
options include feeding outside, on the kitchen floor, in the bathroom
(pick up those little carpets first), on a designated "dog" towel that
gets picked up after eating and put away till the next meal, on one of
those plastic picnic tablecloths. Many choices, find one that works
well for you. :)

Olga

Messages in this topic (2)
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