[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11976

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Stewing duck, sharp bones?
From: Bearhair

2a. Re: PIG HEAD AND MAGGOTS...
From: Bearhair
2b. Re: PIG HEAD AND MAGGOTS...
From: chaparraltrail

3a. Re: Please help! How to feed a 1.5lb puppy??
From: Kelly
3b. Re: Please help! How to feed a 1.5lb puppy??
From: Giselle

4a. Re: feeding mostly chicken
From: Bearhair
4b. Re: feeding mostly chicken
From: Morledzep@aol.com

5a. Re: can I feed another protein early?
From: Bearhair
5b. Re: can I feed another protein early?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

6a. Re: Intro - Newbie
From: Casey Post

7a. Re: amount of calcium
From: Morledzep@aol.com

8a. Re: Confused
From: Morledzep@aol.com

9a. Re: I'm getting discouraged
From: Morledzep@aol.com
9b. Re: I'm getting discouraged
From: Laurie Swanson
9c. Re: I'm getting discouraged
From: Linda H. Gower

10a. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
From: Giselle
10b. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
From: Melindhra

11a. Re: This vegetarian met her match in a turkey! Help!
From: Giselle
11b. Re: This vegetarian met her match in a turkey! Help!
From: ladysown

12a. Re: Losing Hair
From: Giselle
12b. Re: Losing Hair
From: Laurie Swanson

13a. Re: gnaw-worthy bones - Chris O
From: Katie

14.1. Re: constipation
From: Laurie Swanson

15a. pork ribs
From: morkydzgrl

16a. pork
From: Linda H. Gower

Messages
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1a. Re: Stewing duck, sharp bones?
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:32 pm ((PDT))

Sonja wrote:

>Are bones from stewing duck (older duck) more brittle and sharp than those of a regular old chicken? When I was cutting up a duck for the first time a few weeks ago I noticed it, and noticed the same thing on a second one I cut up yesterday. Has anyone had any problems feeding a whole older duck? Normally I wouldn't be concerned, but i gashed myself pretty good a few times and that has never happened on a chicken....

Chickens are incredibly young when they go to market, so their bones are
quite soft. Older hens, used as laying hens, have noticeably stronger bones,
purely as a result of actually reaching adulthood.

Ducks are similar in that regard. The bones may not splinter when being
crushed by a dog's jaws, however, as opposed to being cut with a narrow knife
blade. Try whacking the bone with a hammer to assess the likelihood of
splintering from blunt force.

Lora
Evanston

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: PIG HEAD AND MAGGOTS...
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:33 pm ((PDT))

Any leftover maggots will die quickly - they'll starve and dehydrate, if the
dogs don't find them first. Calm down, get a fan out, and try to get as much
bug spray out of the dog's environment as you can.

Lora
Evanston

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: PIG HEAD AND MAGGOTS...
Posted by: "chaparraltrail" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:39 pm ((PDT))

> Calm down, get a fan out, and try to get as much
> bug spray out of the dog's environment as you can.

Maggots are "gross," but not dangerous. They are cleansers, in the
grand scheme of nature, and live on "nasty" stuff we'd generally
prefer to get rid of anyway.

Betcha they wouldn't have found any "good stuff" in your carpet!

Lori
~who once faded a corner in her own carpet, because she didn't read
the label (bleach), and would NOT want maggots in her carpet...but
would want bleach and bug spray even less!

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: Please help! How to feed a 1.5lb puppy??
Posted by: "Kelly" kelism@gmail.com vt_stuff
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:35 pm ((PDT))

On 8/29/07, Monica <mommyof2gals@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> However, this pomeranian I am picking up tomorrow night only weighs
> 1.5 lbs and I am lost how to feed her. She is microscopic!!!!!

You can feed anything you'd feed to a larger dog, just in smaller amounts.
BUT - she should get a higher percentage of food based on her body weight
than a larger dog (i.e. I started at around 10% or however much they wanted
to eat). In terms of bones, I'd suggest looking for quail and rabbit
but bone in chicken breast is also a good thing to start with for a dog that
size.

> Its my understanding that this breed is prone to hypoglycemia,
> particularly as a puppy, so they need to eat frequently. How in the
> world would you break down that tiny meal into several portions?
>
I know lots of people say to feed a dog like that 3+ times per day, but I
personally only fed twice (although my dogs were a little bit older). Just
keep an eye on her and make sure she's not acting hypoglycemic. My
suggestion: Offer something and take it away once it looks like she's had
enough. Then, give it back to her later. It's easier than trying to give
something that's 1 or 2 oz. I'd also suggest making sure food is brought up
to (close to) room temp before feeding.

--
Kelly

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Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: Please help! How to feed a 1.5lb puppy??
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:24 am ((PDT))

Hi, Monica!
A couple suggestions I want to add are to ribbon the meat
on whatever size portion you give her, so that her tiny mouth has
something to grasp onto, and so that she doesn't tire herself out just
trying to worry meat off the bone to swallow. She'll be able to build
up jaw and body strength to better cope as she grows and gets her
adult teeth.

And, you can get Game, or Cornish hens at the supermarket. They are
really just chickens slaughtered at a younger age, but they are
consequently smaller, with tinier parts and softer bones.

Raw digests faster than kibble, so you may feel more comfortable
offering her 3 or even 4 meals a day until you see how things are
working out for her.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> On 8/29/07, Monica <mommyof2gals@...> wrote:
> >
> > However, this Pomeranian I am picking up tomorrow night only weighs
> > 1.5 lbs and I am lost how to feed her. She is microscopic!!!!!
<snip>
> > Its my understanding that this breed is prone to hypoglycemia,
> > particularly as a puppy, so they need to eat frequently. How in the
> > world would you break down that tiny meal into several portions?

Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Re: feeding mostly chicken
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:59 pm ((PDT))

Sue wrote:

>My
>older dog (9 yr old aussie) has a very sensitive stomach. I've been
>feeding raw for about 3 1/2 months now and I continue to have some
>problems no matter how small the additional protein that I give with
>the chicken meal is. I feed him chicken quarters and quartered
>chickens with small amounts of liver or kidney and additional
>proteins such as pork or tripe or turkey in small pieces. Beef
>really causes problems. . . . I realize hard
>and soft stools are both normal and are due to what he's eaten the
>past meal or so but my question is, he seems to do best on mostly
>chicken and I'm concerned that without adding a lot of varied
>proteins that I may be doing him more harm than good.

Take a look at this:
>http://www.k9snaturally.com/chickenarticle.htm

One of my three refuses to eat (and keep down) almost anything except
poultry. Unless it has a bone in it - she'll eat pig's feet, meaty goat and
lamb bones, but not just a piece of the same meat. What I have found is that
she'll eat pork, beef and lamb organs if they're sliced thinly and frozen.
She also loves turkey gizzards! I get these from www.taylorpondfarms.com.

Lora
Evanston

Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: feeding mostly chicken
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:59 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/29/2007 8:14:37 AM Pacific Standard Time,
fordogs@ptd.net writes:

I feed him chicken quarters and quartered
chickens with small amounts of liver or kidney and additional
proteins such as pork or tripe or turkey in small pieces. Beef
really causes problems.

Sue,

what you are discribing sounds like serious constipation or near impaction,
in which case more meat and RED meat with fat is the best thing.

because you've stuck so hard to chicken for so long you'll most likely have
to go through a few days if digestive adjustment, some loose stools, and such
also. but you NEED to get more meat and less bone into your dog or this
problem will continue and get worse.

If you think beef is a problem, don't start with it.. go with Pork, or even
Turkey, pork would be better.. for boney meals (that you don't need right now)
go with spare ribs, and for meaty meals go with picnic, or shoulder blade or
butt roasts..

ride the wild ride for a couple days, let the colon cannon settle down, then
add another kind of meat.. at that point you can mix and match.. chicken, pork
and the new kind of meat, to reduce the wild ride the next time..

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: can I feed another protein early?
Posted by: "Bearhair" bearhair@spamcop.net bearhair61
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:01 pm ((PDT))

Rita wrote:

>My question is can I introduce pork as a new protein prior to
>the full week since he's doing so well ( he seems to be a bit bored with
>the chicken compared to the first two days he got it). I was thinking
>of giving him some pork shoulder and necks on friday along with a bit of
>liver and heart, am I moving too fast?

I'd go ahead with the pork but hold off on the heart and liver until you're
sure he's settled on the pork. Then you know exactly to what he's reacting if
he has a problem.

Lora
Evanston

Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: can I feed another protein early?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:42 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/29/2007 4:13:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
johnmasson@look.ca writes:

My question is can I introduce pork as a new protein prior to
the full week since he's doing so well ( he seems to be a bit bored with
the chicken compared to the first two days he got it). I was thinking
of giving him some pork shoulder and necks on friday along with a bit of
liver and heart, am I moving too fast?

Rita,

if you both are ready to move on to new and different foods, then by all
means, add in another type of meat. There are no hard and fast rules, and it does
seem as if you need to add more meat, and/or feed less bone. for this
situation i often recommend pork, picnic and shoulder butt roasts are excellent for
extra meat and i nice edible bone that takes some work to eat.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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6a. Re: Intro - Newbie
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:44 pm ((PDT))

> Oh, I also have 2 cats, one too fat and one too thin - both on Felidae.\

A word of caution on the cats - "cold turkey" may not work with them and it
would be potentially dangerous to force the issue. Hepatic lipidosis is not
something you want to have to deal with, so go here -

www.rawfedcats.org

and do some reading up on how to switch cats. I believe that site also
links to the sisterlist, rawcat...

Casey

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Re: amount of calcium
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:32 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/29/2007 9:36:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
powrfemme@aol.com writes:

Any ideas, or are they just different? The smaller, seemingly more
tolerant of calcium dog has pancreatitis, the bigger, seemingly less
tolerant had been getting frequent UTIs (three in a year and a half,
don't know yet how the diet will affect this, its only been about three
months).

Stephany,

I don't know what exactly you mean my calcium, do you mean the amount of bone
you're feeding?

we feed MEAT, with bone and some organs, and some MEAT without bones. No
need for suppliments except to address specific problems in individual dogs, no
need for blanket suplimenting "just in case".

all dogs are individuals, and the difference in your dog's potty habits, or
how what you're feeding them affects them is simply a "know your dog" kinda
thing.

on the UTI's, that is a wait and see thing, if the diet helps that's
wonderful, but a raw diet is NOT a cureall.. there may be other underlying causes,
like vaccine damage, or a genetic pre-disposition to UTI's in which case you're
fighting an uphill battle..

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: Confused
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:50 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/29/2007 7:27:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dteuscher@tx.rr.com writes:

Are ribs okay to feed
with the bone in? I understand no knuckle bones etc. What cuts of
beef can I feed? Also, since they did okay with the chicken, can I add
the beef to the chicken or just do beef alone? One more- my big guy
has really flaky (big flakes) skin. He is losing his undercoat right
now. He had it before we switched to raw. Should I give it more time
or should I be giving him fish oil?

Dawn,

Beef ribs are just fine fed in a slab.. i would not separate the ribs, there
isn't much meat and he probably won't finish the bones because they are quite
hard. Remember, not every meal needs to have bone in it.. most cuts of beef
that you feed will be boneless because there are very few beef bones that are
easily edible for most dogs.

My dogs like whole oxtails, boneless beef brisket (cause it's cheap), and the
occasional rump roast because they go on sale for cheap.. (are ya sensing a
pattern here? ).

My choice for the second type of meat introduced is always pork, picnic
roasts, shoulder butt roasts, and spare ribs are often on sale, especially this
time of year. and the dogs LOVE pork in all forms, even organ meats.

Yes, you can add whatever the second type of meat is to your chicken meals,
or you can go completely with the new type of meat, that is a personal
preference kind of thing, you know that chicken works as long as you only add in one
kind of meat at a time you will know what causes what type of digestive upset,
if such things happen..

Salmon oil can be added any time, but to be honest, if your dog is having a
dry skin problem it's probably better to go with more meat and fattier meat
first and THEN suppliment with salmon or fish body oil.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (24)
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9a. Re: I'm getting discouraged
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:08 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/29/2007 4:50:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
lindagail849@yahoo.com writes:

So for two days he has had just meat, cause he couldn't poop, now back to
bones? I just don't know what to do anymore.

Linda,

one of our favorite motto's "adjust, adjust, adjust". Stop switching from
meat to bone and just feed the meat with a bone in it and add extra meat
(especially if you're only feeding chicken)..

If you're feeding only chicken right now, feed ONE piece of chicken with the
bones and the rest of the meal without bones. I don't know how big your dog
is, but say you're feeding a thigh and a breast leave the meat on the thigh and
take cut the bones off the breast.. or the other way around.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (5)
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9b. Re: I'm getting discouraged
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:18 am ((PDT))

It will be ok, Linda. :-) You don't want to go from extreme to
extreme, but sometimes it takes a bit to figure out the right ratio for
your dog. Sounds like you're going to want to be somewhere in between
boneless and the amount of bone you were feeding previous to the past 2
days. Maybe try a leg quarter for one meal and boneless meat for the
other? (I can't remember how big your dog is, but something on that
order for his size...). I know it can be frustrating, but hang in
there!

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Linda Edgington <lindagail849@...>
wrote:
>
> Now after a bout of hard of poop we are at a soft poop. Is there a
happy medium here somewhere? I'm tired of cleaning up dog butt.

Messages in this topic (5)
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9c. Re: I'm getting discouraged
Posted by: "Linda H. Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:08 am ((PDT))

>
> So for two days he has had just meat, cause he couldn't poop, now back to
> bones? I just don't know what to do anymore.

Another Linda here. This sounds like exactly what I went thru with Lance the first time I tried raw. He either had diarrhea or was puking bone fragments and after several months of trying to regulate him - I gave up. But that was in the "add veggies" days. Now that I'm trying the prey model, fingers crossed - so far so good. He requires bone with each meal for the stools, and I'm careful to make it not too bony to avoid the upchucking of bone. So - what's working for us right now, a leg quarter at night and a top half (backbone and thigh) in the am with more meat added. I'm adding new proteins now, so I take the morning meal opportunity to add another type of meat to their chicken. So this week venison chunks with breakfast and finished that yesterday. This morning they had pork chunks.

This is our third week and so far - no diarrhea and no upchucking - huge improvement over round one!!! Both dogs are handling the cold turkey change fine. I'm certainly far from experienced in this yet, but thought an example of what I have to do with Lance might help you.

It truly is a juggling act, but thankfully I've been able to successfully juggle this time!

Linda G
Poodles Lance and Chase

Messages in this topic (5)
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10a. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:22 am ((PDT))

Hi, Marisa!
"Petite" Newfy girl here, at about 130lbs!
She's been raw fed since I adopted her at 2yo, so at 4yrs raw fed
she's at the Big Food, fast for a day, snack for a couple days, small
meals for a few days stage. We mix it up.

To start your giants, I'd recommend feeding 2 meals a day. Calculate
by 2-3% more or less, of their estimated ideal adult body weight. You
don't say how old your guys are, young dogs may need more than 2-3%,
as will active, performance, gestating and lactating dogs. Older couch
potatoes and overweight dogs will, naturally, need less. Feed a little
less than what you think they might need the first few meals/days.
More frequent meals and smaller portions will reduce possible sloppy
poops until their digestive systems adjust.

Without knowing your dog's weights, I can't tell you exactly what size
portions would work for them. But, half a good sized chicken would be
the smallest I think I'd consider feeding. Depending on their sizes,
whole chickens are not out of the question for a meal. Halved or
quartered turkeys would make great meals, I think. Whole or halved (at
the butcher or meat market) pork shoulders or fresh hams make loverly
meals, too.

After you've introduced several weeks of different proteins, and some
organ variety, you may want to explore feeding Big Food; whole
turkeys, whole pork hams/shoulders, 6 way cut goat or lamb, venison
parts, if you can get it. Let each dog eat several meals worth of food
at once, then fast for a day or two. Feed a snack meal for a couple
days, then a couple days of small meals, before feeding Big Food again.

In case you haven't come across it in your reading, I'm posting Lis'
List; ways to more cheaply and creatively source protein variety.
FreeCycle and craigslist are also great places to find a free or cheap
freezer for all the great scores you'll be finding!

> Where do you look for meat suppliers?

Permission to repost from Lis

1)Look up meat and poultry packers, processors, and distributors in
the yellow pages. You may be able to get great prices from them if
you order in bulk, and/or they may have a discount outlet that is
open to the public.
2) I get many of my best deals in Asian/Oriental markets. I've also
heard that Hispanic and Caribbean markets have great variety and
prices too.
3) You may be able to join a barter group.
4) Google breeders (i.e. rabbit, goat, lamb, etc.) who are in your
geographic area. They may have culls they want to get rid of, or
lower prices overall.
5) Look up bulk suppliers and frozen bulk foods in your yellow pages.
6) If you have a Chinatown nearby, definitely make a visit.
7) Let your friends, relatives, and neighbors know you want any
freezer burn or old meat when they clean out their freezers, and tell
them to pass the word along.
8) If you belong to a church or social group, tell those members to
mention it to their friends and relatives as well.
9) See if there are any co-ops or meat buying groups near you. Check
on Yahoo, or Google to see.
10) Try craigslist - it's amazing what you can get for free or cheap.
11) And I get meat and fish all the time (for free) through
FreeCycle. Join multiple lists if there are a few close by.
12) Some Wal-marts and some Costcos and some Sam’s Clubs have good
deals, but you may want to make sure it's not seasoned meat.
13) Definitely watch the flyers, and you can usually see the rest
of the flyers online (the ones that don't get delivered to your house,
but are only a short drive away).
14) *** Hands down, the bulk of my best deals have been marked down
meat at regular grocery stores. They reduce it the day before it is
going to expire, and I go as early as I can to get it before it is
gone.
15) Tell friends and relatives who hunt and fish that you want first
dibs on any body parts they don't. You can probably get at least the
organs and maybe the head. Also ask them to put you in touch with
their other friends who hunt and fish.
16) A great tip I learned here a while back â€" some restaurants
throw out things they don't use, like the organs that come inside
whole poultry, or raw meat that falls on the floor. See if they'll
save them for you. Find somebody who knows somebody who works there.
17) Farmer's markets are great, but pick and choose carefully for the
best bargains. And sometimes at the end of the day some vendors will
reduce their prices, ‘cause they don't want to take it back with them.
18) Some people contact taxidermists, who have no use for the meat.
19) Find people on this list from your vicinity, and ask them where
they get their meat deals. Join other raw feeding lists (there are
many), and ask if there are other raw feeders in your area.
20) Tell your butcher you want the meat that they would normally
throw out, that is almost out of date, that people ordered and didn't
pick up, stuff that was dropped on the floor, their freezer
cleanouts, and parts that don't sell (like trachea, lungs, spleen,
etc.). Some butchers will save their trim for you (once they get to
know you). Build a relationship with them first.
21) Yes, roadkill works too (where it is legal). In some places you
can get your name on the list and get called when they have large
roadkill. (like deer)
22) You can raise your own meat/poultry if you have the room.
23) Post a message in Carnivore Feed-Supplier or CFS-Canada if you are
in North America:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CFS-Canada/
24) Speak to local farmers.
25) Also, look for heart, tongue, and gizzards, which count as meat (as
opposed to organ) in the world of raw feeding, but are often cheaper
than other muscle meats.
26) Find somebody who knows somebody who works at the grocery store.
They can introduce you to the meat guy, who may become more willing
to save stuff for you or reduce items about to expire, once they know
you.
27) Check the internet. Some suppliers have affordable prices, even
after shipping costs are calculated.

Lis

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hi folks - I have been reading a few days and have
> learned a lot!
<snip>
> I see that some of you are feeding giant breeds and I
> get the principle that they may only need 1-1 1/2% of
> their body weight (which is good, b/c that would be a
> lot of food otherwise!).
>
> What are some sample Mastiff, Dane or other
> giant-sized meals?
<snip>
> Thanks for the help. We are looking forward to
> starting.
>
> Marisa
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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10b. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
Posted by: "Melindhra" melindhra@gmail.com melindhra
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:20 am ((PDT))

Hi Marisa,

I have a Tibetan Mastiff, but he is still a pup at 8 months of age. He will
tackle pretty much anything I throw at him. I'm just careful to stay away
from weight bearing bones of large animals like cows, etc. Your guys should
be fine with anything you can reasonably obtain and feed to them. Just take
away the leftovers and give the rest to them later.

If I give my pup a big piece of food like a whole chicken or a pork picnic
roast (whatever it's called ... I'm a vegetarian so I'm not too great with
the names of various cuts), I just try to make sure the whole piece is close
to what his daily intake should be. He never eats it all in one sitting, so
I just give him the rest in the evening. Nice and easy.

Just make sure you don't give your guys smaller pieces of meat like wings
and chicken thighs. The smallest pieces I give to my dog are chicken
quarters. The chicken quarters are an absolute joke for him, but at least
he doesn't gobble them down too fast.

- Melindhra

On 8/29/07, Marisa Ammons <scoobysnax101@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi folks - I have been reading a few days and have
> learned a lot! Thank you for all the wisdom. I have
> two mastiffs and a GSMD and we are getting ready to
> switch to raw this weekend (wanted to know what I was
> doing first).
>
> I see that some of you are feeding giant breeds and I
> get the principle that they may only need 1-1 1/2% of
> their body weight (which is good, b/c that would be a
> lot of food otherwise!).
>
> What are some sample mastiff, dane or other
> giant-sized meals? One of my boys has eaten a whole
> chicken for an unexpected snack, so I know he can, but
> that is too much on a daily basis (one of our own
> flock disappeared and then we found feet in poop).
>
> Just looking for ideas - I see a lot about sizing for
> small dogs, but would love some ideas about how big
> the pieces are that the really big guys eat. I worry
> that they will be eating me out of house and home!
>
> Thanks for the help. We are looking forward to
> starting.
>
> Marisa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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11a. Re: This vegetarian met her match in a turkey! Help!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:35 am ((PDT))

Hi, Kerry!
Cutting up a chicken or turkey doesn't have to be neat or
pretty, but it should be safe!

Thats why I usually recommend that people use heavy duty kitchen
shears for cutting. Most people don't have the knife skills or sharp
enough knives for me to be comfortable recommending that they use a
knife to section something as unwieldy and slippery as a chicken or
turkey. Also, a lot of people don't have a big enough knife in their
kitchen. ; )

You really need to have a big cutting board, (designate one just for
raw meat) wet a kitchen towel and place under it so it won't 'scoot'
around when you're working on the bird. If you use a couple towels,
they will catch any run off from the bird.

Use disposable plastic gloves, even double glove if you are squeamish
- they will give you a better grip on the bird. Or, use reuseable
dishwashing gloves.

This link will show you a step-by-step way to section a turkey into
parts. (chickens are the same, but smaller)

http://www.recipetips.com/kitchen-tips/t-37-436/Cutting-Up-a-Whole-Turkey.asp
http://tinyurl.com/389ogz
You don't have to cut it up in this order or take the parts as small
or boneless, the way the photos show, but you will be able to see
where the cuts can be made. What they don't mention is that each joint
has ligaments between the gristly ends of the bones, where, if you
cut, will release each joint without much effort on your part.

Instead of this method, I often cut a turkey in half between the
breasts at the keel bone, then flatten the halves against the cutting
board, then cut it entirely in half at the side of the backbone. You
could then separate it into smaller portions from that point on.

I wouldn't recommend that you try to feed Big Food to your dog's if
you are still introducing protein and organ variety. Wait for that
until your dogs have adjusted to the raw oeuvre. If you give them some
time to adjust, you may be surprised by even your dog that won't eat a
lot at one meal right now. You could introduce them to bigger food by
feeding one bigger and one smaller meal in a day, and gradually making
the big meal bigger, and the small meal smaller, until you are feeding
just 1 meal a day. Then, you could go to offering 2 days worth of food
at a meal. Fast the next day. And so on, until you are feeding several
days worth of food at one meal, then nothing for a couple days, then
snack meals for a couple days, then small meals for a couple days.
Going to gorge 'n fast should be pretty much worked up to, ime.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey
btw, the 'slimy things' were probably the neck, gizzards, heart and
liver. All good for dogs. : ) Feed the liver in tiny bits, as it can
be loosening.

<snip>
> Well, I was able to get the legs and the wings off with my handy
> shears and a little help from a boning knife, but could not find my
> way to separate the rest of the bird in to manageable, freezable
> parts. Plus my minimally processed bird was bleeding everywhere and
> all sorts of slimy things were still attached in the body cavity,
> thoroughly scaring and revolting this vegetarian. It looked like a
> massacre in my sink (part of my problem, I was trying to cut the bird
> up in the sink to limit the mess and spillage), though it was high
> entertainment for my dogs who were super excited and totally underfoot
> <snip>
> Anyways, recommendations on a future plan of attack for the next
> turkey I buy since turkey was a bit hit with both dogs? I would like
> to cut it up in to 1.5-5.0 lb portions. Do I need something other
> then my run-of-the-mill shears and boning knife? I am highly visual,
> can someone point me to a picture that would help me know where and
> how to cut?
>
> Could I feed a 20lb turkey to my dog who should only eat approx 3/4 of
> a pound a day? How would that work? Would I refreeze it every so
> often since this would be a month of food? Or is it better to just
> cut it up?
>
> FYI - I have two dogs, one a golden retriever, one a lab mix. The
> golden eats around 1-1.5lbs/day, the lab mix 0.75lbs/day. The golden
> so far has refused to eat a whole chicken, but will eat meals cut up
> for her, has a tendency to bury the leftovers, which then get dug up
> and eaten by my overweight lab-mix, so I try not to give the golden
> more than a reasonable portion.
>
> Thank you,
> Kerry
> Tucson, AZ
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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11b. Re: This vegetarian met her match in a turkey! Help!
Posted by: "ladysown" mousegirls@gmail.com ladysown
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:19 am ((PDT))

The question is how to cut up a turkey.

It's like doing a chicken but harder (since bigger animal)

Check out these pages for pictures! :)
http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/97/Cutting-Up-Chicken
http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/cutupchicken.htm

Annette

Messages in this topic (6)
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12a. Re: Losing Hair
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:07 am ((PDT))

Hi, Carol!
While I think that the summer heat can help precipitate
abundant shedding, quite a few peeps have posted about shedding after
switching to raw.
Not every dog does, but, when they do, I think it has to do with the
vast difference in optimal digestible nutrition that they get with
raw, compared to kibble.
I never noticed it with any of my dogs that I switched to raw. With my
original dogs, I went from kibble to home cooked to barfie style to
real prey model, so the changes in nutrition were incremental. Even
with newer dogs and rescues, I haven't noticed the all over shed that
some people have posted about.
So, it may be annoying, but I think its a good sign that better things
are happening, inside and outside your dogs!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

btw, Susan - by the way : ) What is the meaning of all the acronyms?
For example, IMO In My Opinion or In My Humble Opinion. IME In My
Experience. and FWIW For What Its Worth. YMMV Your Mileage May Vary.
YVW You're Very Welcome or YQW You're Quite Welcome. Can't think of
anymore, offhand.
http://www.geocities.com/eedd88/abbreviations.html?200730

> Hello!
>
> I am 2 weeks into feeding my guys raw and wondered if hair loss is
> something the dogs go through with the change of diet. I have a Boxer
> mix, Pit mix and an Am. Staff. They shed very little normally
> (especially my pittys), but since going to raw the amount of hair that
> comes off in brushing is triple. I've fed chicken, turkey, eggs, just
> started pork and they get Omega 3 caps. I'm in Az. and it's been very
> hot, but the excessive shedding just started.
>
> Thank you!
> Carol
> (Rex,Rocky,Mack)
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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12b. Re: Losing Hair
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:20 am ((PDT))

Hi Susan,

Alternating breasts and leg quarters isn't bad--just keep an eye on the
stool, etc. Eventually, you'll want more variety and maybe a bit more
meat to bone.

IMO= in my opinion
FWIW=for what it's worth

Laurie

Messages in this topic (7)
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13a. Re: gnaw-worthy bones - Chris O
Posted by: "Katie" kcrockett@mac.com kcrockettla7
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:18 am ((PDT))

hmmmm . . . i just mow the weeds and whatever else might be growing out there . . . it's
green . . . in the texas heat i figure green is good!!

...katie

> woofwoofgrrl <cmc4lists1@> wrote:
> > I don't pull my weeds, much to the chagrin of my Chem-lawn lovin'
> > neighbors, my lawn is comprised of "native grasses and plants!" :)
> LOL!!!
> *****
> Amen to that!

Messages in this topic (26)
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14.1. Re: constipation
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:28 am ((PDT))

Linda,

Sounds like you're doing pretty good, just need a little more meat.
Let us know if you continue to have problems. I don't do cats, but you
might be able to switch her to once a day the same way you would with a
dog? Gradually decrease one meal and increase the other. If you want
tips, maybe some cat people will respond or you could post on rawcat.

Laurie

Messages in this topic (39)
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15a. pork ribs
Posted by: "morkydzgrl" ShankMa4@aol.com morkydzgrl
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:52 am ((PDT))

Can I feed my dog pork ribs? They are called spare ribs. Is this the
part I want? I feel worried to feed the wrong part of a carcass.

I fed a turkey thigh yesterday. I felt so worried, but he was able to
chew right through it. Whew. Each time I feed something new...I feel
anxiety...then relief when he is able to eat it.

Thanks for the help.

Cindi

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16a. pork
Posted by: "Linda H. Gower" pudeltime@bellsouth.net pudeltime
Date: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:52 am ((PDT))

Among the freezer burnt items that I discovered was a pork roast. Its time to add another meat to the boys diet so I thawed the roast last night. Upon hacking it into chunks I realized just how fatty it was underneath. Is it best for me to carve some of that fat off, or what? We're talking close to an inch layer of fat with just a thin ribbon of meat thru it.

I just took the least fatty chunks and added it to their chicken quarter and leg this morning.

Linda G
Chase Mini Poodle
Lance Std Poodle

Messages in this topic (20)
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