[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11971

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: constipation
From: marblekallie
1.2. Re: constipation
From: Laurie Swanson

2a. The ads?...hehehe
From: coriowen
2b. Re: The ads?...hehehe
From: Giselle
2c. Re: The ads?...hehehe
From: coriowen

3a. Tiny dogs and RAW
From: mob1043
3b. Re: Tiny dogs and RAW
From: marblekallie

4.1. Re: Hi
From: Stef Scott

5a. woohoo!! woot! woot! woohoo!!!
From: dazolevid
5b. Re: woohoo!! woot! woot! woohoo!!!
From: Laurie Swanson

6a. Re: New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
From: carnesbill
6b. Re: New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
From: ferrarious
6c. Re: New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
From: Sandee Lee
6d. Re: New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
From: Sandee Lee
6e. Re: New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
From: carnesbill
6f. Re: New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
6g. Re: New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
From: ferrarious

7a. Re: Weaning pups from Mom to raw
From: Michael Moore

8a. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: tantelin22@aol.com
8b. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Morledzep@aol.com
8c. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Laurie Swanson
8d. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: carnesbill
8e. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: Jenny S
8f. Re: Wreck Bones was Re: legumes Unhealthy?
From: woofwoofgrrl

9a. Re: Feeding wing and thigh separately to large dogs
From: coriowen

Messages
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1.1. Re: constipation
Posted by: "marblekallie" marble@pipeline.com marblekallie
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:11 pm ((PDT))

Hi Linda:

Another option is to include more fat in the diet. I have small
dachshunds and have just discovered that adding a bit more fat does
help in the poop department by easing the passage. Adding some oily
fish or salmon oil would help too. Non weight-bearing bones hidden
under lots of meat is the way to go. Pork, beef, goat, lamb, and
their organs. Chicken is a once in a while item with my dogs.

Philippa Jordan
New York City

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Linda Edgington <lindagail849@...>
wrote:
>
> he is actually straining to poop and I have to "pinch" it out.
Gross, I know. But on other times it is loose or sticks to his hair
anyway.

Messages in this topic (37)
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1.2. Re: constipation
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:39 am ((PDT))

Linda,

Sounds fun! :-)

I don't think you've said exactly what you're feeding yet. If you
give details, we can help you better.

The general idea is to replicate/assemble a whole prey animal, which
is usually around 80% meat, 10% bone, and 10% organs. The 10% bone
doesn't mean 10% of his meals have bone in them, but that about 10%
of his intake is edible bone. This is just something to keep in mind
over the long term. You don't need to worry about meals being
perfect, or be calculating all the time. But that helped me to
visualize the amount of meat, bone, and organs to feed. That said,
some dogs do better with more or less bone, also, so it's just an
approximation. You can buy whole chickens, cut them up, and feed
them--there you've got some whole prey! If you buy chicken parts,
just know that legs and wings are bonier than breasts, so you can
alternate those with breasts, or with some boneless meats maybe.
When that's going well, you can start adding in more variety.

You and he will get the hang of this. There is often an adjustment
period, and a learning curve. Kibble has fillers and bulking agents
which regulate the stool, but it's not healthy, as you know.

Keep asking questions,

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Linda Edgington <lindagail849@...>
wrote:
>
> he is actually straining to poop and I have to "pinch" it out.
Gross, I know. But on other times it is loose or sticks to his hair
anyway. He has had more baths than a dog should have I'm sure. Yes
he has prob had more bone than just meat. How often should bone be
fed? Once a week? or more.

Messages in this topic (37)
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2a. The ads?...hehehe
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:11 pm ((PDT))

Do y'all ever notice the ads streaming accross the top of the screen?
They are all advertisements for kibble! LOL I just think it is funny
that the companies get advertised on a Raw Diet site! I'm sure someone
has already pointed this out, I just thought it was funny. I will
NEVER go back to their junk ever again!!! Now that I know better, I do
better. I wish I would have known better when my last baby was still
here...she might still be here today. =(
Cori

Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: The ads?...hehehe
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:40 pm ((PDT))

Its called 'targeted or focus marketing'. They sell the ads that
appear on specialized group pages.
There's even more specialized 'sponsored' ads at the bottom of the page.
Dog training lists get dog training ads, breeder's lists get ads
selling puppies.....
Yahoo! makes a load of cash from these free email group sites.
We are the bait to trap the advertiser's $$.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Do y'all ever notice the ads streaming across the top of the screen?
> They are all advertisements for kibble! LOL I just think it is funny
> that the companies get advertised on a Raw Diet site! I'm sure someone
> has already pointed this out, I just thought it was funny. I will
> NEVER go back to their junk ever again!!! Now that I know better, I do
> better. I wish I would have known better when my last baby was still
> here...she might still be here today. =(
> Cori
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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2c. Re: The ads?...hehehe
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:35 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...>
wrote:
>
> Its called 'targeted or focus marketing'. They sell the ads that
> appear on specialized group pages.
> There's even more specialized 'sponsored' ads at the bottom of the
page.
> Dog training lists get dog training ads, breeder's lists get ads
> selling puppies.....
> Yahoo! makes a load of cash from these free email group sites.
> We are the bait to trap the advertiser's $$.
> TC
> Giselle
> with Bea in New Jersey

Oh yea, I know that they send out 'feelers" for places to advertise
like Yahoo and others but it's the irony that see in it and they
don't even realize that it is streaming across our site, which it's
also streaming across lot's of sites where it DOES make a
difference. Obviously to them we are a drop in the bucket, so no
biggy, but I just thought between us, it's funny, you know? =)
Cori

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Tiny dogs and RAW
Posted by: "mob1043" ynotbeastar@marykay.com mob1043
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:11 pm ((PDT))

Hello folks. We just got two small dogs a silky terrier and a
brussels griffon.

I have been feeding my big dogs with raw and it has been very simple
and I know this will be too, but what is the best to start them off
with, wings, a gizzard?

Thank you,
Michele

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Tiny dogs and RAW
Posted by: "marblekallie" marble@pipeline.com marblekallie
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:36 pm ((PDT))

Hi:

I have small dogs -- dachshunds. The thing is that they are just as
capable of gulping as a big dog. If a piece of meat doesn't have a
bone in it, then it has to be really big or else they try to swallow
it whole and it gets stuck.

You can start out on chicken thighs/drumsticks or a whole chicken in
parts, with or without the skin, depending on whether your dogs have
too much or too little weight and how much exercise they get, etc.
Once they are OK with chicken you can move on to other meats and
fish. The pup I have didn't even need the time to straigten out with
the chicken, she was OK with variety from the second day.

So, don't think tiny dog, tiny food, think tiny dog, big food and pick
up the large pieces after you think they have had enough and put them
away in the fridge for the next time.

Philippa Jordan
New York City

> Hello folks. We just got two small dogs a silky terrier and a
> brussels griffon.

Messages in this topic (2)
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4.1. Re: Hi
Posted by: "Stef Scott" stef.scott@yahoo.com stef.scott
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:12 pm ((PDT))

yay! thank you for the links and i've been reading the posts...and learning as i go :) there are a lot of posts..so i have a lot of catching up to do...

stef

stef and the boys

---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (28)
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5a. woohoo!! woot! woot! woohoo!!!
Posted by: "dazolevid" dazolevid@yahoo.com dazolevid
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:35 pm ((PDT))

Sorry for my excitement, but today is an awesome day! After 4 days of snubbing her nose
at my bone-in chicken breasts, my boxer finally ate one last night! Granted, I *did* have
to help her a bit to get her started. She finished it by herself, though, chewing and
tearing through it till it was gone. A couple close calls while she worked out the whole "I
need to tear off smaller bits" thing, but overall, a success!!

Thats not the best part, though. The breast she ate last night was the last breast I had. So
this morning, I fed her the pre-ground chicken backs I have. Of course, she devoured it.

I didn't have time to go to the store today, so I didn't get more large chicken meals for
her. My plan was to just thaw out some more pre-ground stuff and tomorrow go to the
store. Well, the zip-top I pulled out of the freezer had a rather large, whole, chicken back
and a decent amount of tripe.

I was *very* anxious that she would just lick at the chicken back again, since she had pre-
ground for breakfast. Boy was I wrong! She practically inhaled the tripe, then dove right
in on the chicken back, even using her paws a little bit.

After she was done, she was rolling around on her back, grunting, with the biggest smile
on her face! Well, it looked like a smile to me :)

Tomorrow, I'm off to the store to find some deals on bone in chicken meals (large sized,
since she's still getting used to it). Overall...I think she'll do great!

Thanks to everyone for the help, advice and your 'ear'!

David

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: woohoo!! woot! woot! woohoo!!!
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:39 am ((PDT))

Yay! It is so fun to see them eat their natural food, isn't it? I'm
sure she was smiling. :-)

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "dazolevid" <dazolevid@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry for my excitement, but today is an awesome day! After 4 days
of snubbing her nose
> at my bone-in chicken breasts, my boxer finally ate one last
night!

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:23 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ferrarious" <ferrarious@...>
wrote:
>
> What should I do? Not to feed in the morning and give them
> both anti
> worms treatment and feed them, chicken in the evening?

Hi Dan,
I assume you are feeding bones with the chicken you are feeding.
The main causes of either soft stools or diarrhea in raw fed dogs
are:
1. not enough bone
2. Too much volume
3. Too much fat
4. Organs fed too early in the diet

I would let the little one skip a meal, then feed less volume and
take the skin off to reduce fat intake.

I wouldn't be concerned about worms unitl you are sure he has them.
I wouldn't treat either dog just because you suspect they MIGHT have
them. Worms are not unusual in puppies and are not a great threat.
Waiting a few days to find out for sure shouldn't cause any problems.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (8)
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6b. Re: New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
Posted by: "ferrarious" ferrarious@yahoo.com ferrarious
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:40 pm ((PDT))

> 1. not enough bone

I will try to add bones

> 2. Too much volume

may be itws the problem

> 3. Too much fat

don't think so, I don't leave the fat of the chicken, the one that
you can see

> 4. Organs fed too early in the diet

I didn't fed organs yet

> take the skin off to reduce fat intake

I take the skin off the chicken anyway becouse the toxin that they
are fed while growing are cincentrated in it. Am I wrong?

> I wouldn't be concerned about worms unitl you are sure he has them.

I will do that.

Tank you very much for your answer.

Dan.

Messages in this topic (8)
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6c. Re: New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:49 pm ((PDT))

Dan,

How often are you feeding the puppy? Too much food in a meal can cause
loose stools pretty easily. I bet feeding smaller more frequent meals will
take care of the problem.

I wouldn't worry about worms at this point.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "ferrarious" <ferrarious@yahoo.com>
I have two dogs, 4 years mixbreed bitch that ate for her all life
k***le food, and 3.5 month old Vizsla puppy who ate k***ble and
chicken+rise until now. After reading the mailing list for few days and
anything I could find on the net I switched to raw. For the past two
days they ate only chicken. I got whole chickens and they got it parts
by parts. Every thing was ok until the pup woke me up now and I took
him outside. He had diarrhea and I think worms ( it was dark so I am
not sure about the worms ). In the evening both of the dogs were ok (
it only took them more time until they pooped and I didn't see worms ).
What should I do? Not to feed in the morning and give them both anti
worms treatment and feed them, chicken in the evening?

Messages in this topic (8)
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6d. Re: New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:55 pm ((PDT))

Dan,

If you are feeding whole chickens, you are not lacking in bone. Skin and
fat is a necessary part of the diet.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "ferrarious" <ferrarious@yahoo.com>

> 1. not enough bone

I will try to add bones

> 2. Too much volume

may be itws the problem

> 3. Too much fat

don't think so, I don't leave the fat of the chicken, the one that
you can see

> 4. Organs fed too early in the diet

I didn't fed organs yet

> take the skin off to reduce fat intake

I take the skin off the chicken anyway becouse the toxin that they
are fed while growing are cincentrated in it. Am I wrong?

Messages in this topic (8)
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6e. Re: New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:38 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ferrarious" <ferrarious@...>
wrote:
>
>
> > 1. not enough bone
>
> I will try to add bones

Cool

> > 2. Too much volume
>
> may be itws the problem

Now you have something to work on. :)

> > take the skin off to reduce fat intake
>
> I take the skin off the chicken anyway becouse the toxin that they
> are fed while growing are cincentrated in it. Am I wrong?

Yeah, I think so. I have never seen that chickens are fed any
toxins. They definately are not fed growth hormones nor steriods
and the only antibiotics they get are IF there happens to be an
outbreak of something in the chicken house which is rare.

This doesn't mean that you don't need to take skin off until his
little tummy settles down. In a week or so, you can probably leave
the skin and fat on. From your remark, I think the problem is going
to end up being too much volume.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (8)
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6f. Re: New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:42 am ((PDT))

Remember, it can go both ways, I have heard too much bone can cause Diarhea too, so maybe the whole chicken has too much bone for your size dogs. I had that problem when I started feeding chicken backs only. They didn't have enough meat. If what everyone else hasn't helped, try adding some chicken without bone, only meat, for a meal or two, and see if that firms up things.
Goodluck, and welcome to the raw side of town!
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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6g. Re: New to the raw feeding+dairrhea and worms
Posted by: "ferrarious" ferrarious@yahoo.com ferrarious
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:10 am ((PDT))

> > How often are you feeding the puppy?
>
I feed him 3 meals a day.

His weight now is 16.5 kg = 8.38 lbs = 36.8 pounds and the final
weight has to be around 30 kg = 10.14 lbs = 66.14 pounds.
The daily amount that I gave is around 900 gr = 31.75 oz.
I will give him less and see what happens.

Dan.

Messages in this topic (8)
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7a. Re: Weaning pups from Mom to raw
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:24 pm ((PDT))

>> I am needing help with weaning puppies from Mom's milk to
a raw diet. I am new to feeding a raw diet and never had puppies
raised on a raw diet and very excited to have a litter raised on raw.
Could someone please help me with this. <<

Perri -- I only saw two posts on this topic, so thought I'd give my input as well. The other two breeders were GSD folks, both of whom started their litters on ground goodies. My first raw litter (now 4 mos. old) never had even one meal of anything ground.
I started them on chicken -- bone-in breasts -- and simply offered them with the meat ribboned to let them get started. This at 5 wks. Within a week, they were stripping all the meat off the gones, and by 7 wks.,, were eating bone as well.
Not sure whether one is "superior" to the other method, but this worked great for me. I don't own a grinder, and don't intend to buy one, especially since the Corgi puppies had no problems with "whole" foods.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "tantelin22@aol.com" tantelin22@aol.com tantelindar
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:42 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/28/2007 7:13:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
megan.giselle@gmail.com writes:

"Rec" bones are wreck bones! Dogs should have bones that are
mostly consumable. Bones sold under the label of "rec", recreational,
marrow, dog or soup are euphemisms for tooth breakers and wearers. Any
bones not eaten in a meal are not needed by the dog and should be
tossed into the trash. Never feed the hard, dense bones from large
animals. Think how much weight those bones have to hold up, and how
strong they have to be!

=============
I have to disagree. I have never seen a dog so happy as when I gave my
40-pound Sheltie/Dobe cross an entire steer femur. It weighed about half what
she did, and she couldn't lift it: she had to drag it. Over the course of the
next six months she ate the knuckles off one end, then the other, and
started working in earnest to get at the marrow. She continued to gnaw at that
bone until it was reduced from almost 3-feet long to about 12-inches of the
center of the shaft. I finally tossed it after I discovered that she'd hidden it
in my bed: I rolled over onto it. Ouch! :)

I have never heard of a dog breaking a tooth by chewing on a bone, though I
suppose accidents do happen. I chipped a tooth once biting on a fingernail.

As for this kind of chewing wearing out a dog's teeth... what do you think
he has teeth for?! I've never seen any signs of wear on the teeth of a dog
who chews bones. Chewing on rocks certainly causes unnatural wear and can
break teeth, but no one advocates allowing any dog to chew on rocks.

Chewing lowers blood pressure, calms the mind, stimulates digestion and
elimination. It can also be diagnostic: my dog went to the vet when he
stopped chewing on his favorite bone, and the vet's examination showed FIVE
abscessed teeth requiring surgery. As soon as he healed, he was chewing again.

Chewing is natural to a dog and I see no reason not to encourage it.


<======================================== >
Blessed Be with An Honorable Peace!
Tante Lin

Maxine is my Hero! She says:
My idea of rebooting is kicking somebody in the butt twice.
Don't let aging get you down: it's too hard to get back up!
If you woke up breathing, congratulations!
You have another chance!
<===>

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Messages in this topic (25)
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8b. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:08 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 8/28/2007 8:32:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Momvella@aol.com writes:

I made up a batch of raw food for Kobi. Needed
some veggies so I used a package of frozen Broccoli mix. It had some
pinto beans in the mix. I never heard of uncooked beans being
dangerous but I read in this months dog Journal mag that they are if
there uncooked. I made a 2 month supply. Do I have to throw this out?
Anybody else heard of this? Thanks in advance for the replies.

Cindy,

i'm perplexed.. how did you make up a batch of raw food? when did you join
this list? did you read the file emails that were sent to you when you were
approved?

we practice Prey Model Raw Feeding, we do not grind meat, or bones except for
very small pups and sometimes elderly dogs in their last days. We don't feed
veggies as part of the regular diet, but we don't discourage folks from using
them now and then as treats or letting a dog lick a dinner plate with
leftover veggies on it. Not because they are necessary, but because in amounts that
small they make no difference in the diet.

There is nothing to mix, very little to measure.. we feed parts of prey
animals, or even whole prey animals when we can. Depending on the size of the dogs
and what is available, of course. whole chickens or half chickens, or pork
roasts (sometimes cut into meal sized hunks, sometimes not), spare rib slabs,
turkey (whole, half, quartered.. again, by the size of the dog thats eating
it), duck, beef, emu.. not ground.. not fussed with, not "enhanced".. as much as
it can be avoided anyway.

your average prey animal weighs in at APPROXIMATELY 10% edible bone, 10%
organ meats, and 80% everything else, including MEAT, fat, skin, connective
tissue, and MEAT. rather than percentages which tend to confuse folks look for MEAT
on a bone, and a little organs, not a lot. Part of the organs should be
liver at some point.

for larger dogs we recommend a STARTING point of 2 - 3% of their IDEAL adult
weight, and adjust as the dog loses or gains weight. for some of the smaller
dogs most recommend starting at a minimum of 3%.. sometimes slightly more.
And, as always, adjust as your dogs' needs change.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (25)
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8c. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:40 am ((PDT))

Well, I'm sure you'll get lots of responses to this one, but I'll
chime in...

Yes, chewing is natural and healthy, and I gave beef and buffalo
knuckle/marrow bones to my Boston until about a year ago when I found
this list and learned they were hazardous. My Boston has 2 chipped
teeth to show for it that are now getting cavities and will probably
need to be removed eventually.

So, that's why we feed and recommend bones they can consume fairly
easily (not that take hours, days, or months to gnaw away at), and
big, awkward/complicated animal parts they can dig into and work on,
etc. It IS satisfying for them, and good for dental hygiene.

Does that make sense?

Btw, how did your dog get 5 abcessed teeth?

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, tantelin22@... wrote:

> I have to disagree. I have never seen a dog so happy as when I
gave my
> 40-pound Sheltie/Dobe cross an entire steer femur. It weighed
about half what
> she did, and she couldn't lift it: she had to drag it. Over the
course of the
> next six months she ate the knuckles off one end, then the other,
and
> started working in earnest to get at the marrow.

Messages in this topic (25)
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8d. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:41 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, tantelin22@... wrote:
>
> I have never heard of a dog breaking a tooth by chewing on
> a bone, though I suppose accidents do happen.

Yes, it definately happens. Also, knawing on a large bone like that
is akin to rubbing the teeth with sandpaper. Yes it will wear the
tartar off on the outside of each tooth but does nothing between the
teeth or behind the teeth and allows bacteria to form there and and
gum disease to take hold regardless of how much large bone chewing
has taken place. There is no way that prolonged chewing of bones
like this can fail to wear on the teeth.

> As for this kind of chewing wearing out a dog's teeth... what
> do you think he has teeth for?!

He has teeth for crunching and breaking up bone in the process of
eating it. Not just to rub the bone up and down over the outside
surface. By crunching and chewing, bones gets between the teeth as
well as on the back of the teeth giving them a thorough cleaning.
Teeth are also used for ripping and tearing meat to a small enough
size to swallow it.

> I've never seen any signs of wear on the teeth of a dog
> who chews bones.

Look closely, its there.

> Chewing lowers blood pressure, calms the mind,
> stimulates digestion and elimination.

Yes, I agree but the "chewing" should be done in the process of
crunching bones in the process of eating. Just rubbing bones on the
outside surface doesn't give the same results as actually eating the
bone along with some meat.

> It can also be diagnostic: my dog went to the vet when he
> stopped chewing on his favorite bone, and the vet's
> examination showed FIVE abscessed teeth requiring surgery.

Eating bones instead of chewing them would not have allowed that to
happen. Don't you see those absesses were aquired during the time
he was knawing the wreck bones? Knawing wreck bones didn't stop
those absesses from happening. Chewing bones in the normal process
of eating will.

> Chewing is natural to a dog and I see no reason not to
> encourage it.

Hopefully now you see reasons not to "feed" wreck bones. Yes,
chewing bones is natural. Rubbing his teeth on a wreck bone is not.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (25)
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8e. Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "Jenny S" jenken69@shaw.ca jenken69
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:42 am ((PDT))

I have a Shiz-Tzu as well and feed her 1/2 chickens, legs and thighs, beef , pork ..whatever all raw all large pieces (least for her they seem large ) and she eats throu it np i feed 0 vegies and absoultly no grains ..since she started raw we have no tear stains no oder (she used to have a foul smell around her eyes..figured it was alegeries to grains or something in the kibble )..and her teeth from knawing throu the meat grissel , bones etc keep her teeth sparkling clean.
Jenny S
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfMJXz3AvKI (doggy napkin)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L34YjdBCu8I( Fun in the pool) way to funny..

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (25)
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8f. Re: Wreck Bones was Re: legumes Unhealthy?
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:11 am ((PDT))

I'll chime in on this one - I learned about this the EXPENSIVE way....
I used to give my BC marrow bones to gnaw on, she loved 'em...until she
chipped one of her incisors on one and needed it removed. $500 later -
I threw the rest of them out!

Christine

Laurie Swanson wrote:
>
>
> Well, I'm sure you'll get lots of responses to this one, but I'll
> chime in...
>
> Yes, chewing is natural and healthy, and I gave beef and buffalo
> knuckle/marrow bones to my Boston until about a year ago when I found
> this list and learned they were hazardous. My Boston has 2 chipped
> teeth to show for it that are now getting cavities and will probably
> need to be removed eventually.
>
> So, that's why we feed and recommend bones they can consume fairly
> easily (not that take hours, days, or months to gnaw away at), and
> big, awkward/complicated animal parts they can dig into and work on,
> etc. It IS satisfying for them, and good for dental hygiene.
>
> Does that make sense?
>
> Btw, how did your dog get 5 abcessed teeth?
>
> Laurie
>
>

Messages in this topic (25)
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9a. Re: Feeding wing and thigh separately to large dogs
Posted by: "coriowen" COwen98@aol.com coriowen
Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:39 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
>
> "steph.sorensen" <steph.sorensen@> wrote:
> >> Yes, I did separate, but that is only because I know how my dogs
> > eat. They are not rushers and prefer to take the time to chew
> > thoroughly. I knew it would be okay doing it this way. Besides,
I
> > think it will make the chicken last longer, because if I just
gave
> > them the whole bird, they would sit there until they ate the
whole
> > bird in one sitting! I don't want them eating that much. There
is
> > always the option of taking it away from them after a while in
> order
> > to save some, but since I'm not having issues with separating the
> > pieces, I'll continue to do it that way.
> *****
> I think there is some confusion here. That your dogs can eat small
> food doesn't mean small food is what you should be feeding. Food
is
> more than nutrition. It is exercise, dental and mental hygiene,
and
> fun. If your dogs can carefully dismantle a wing, they can
carefully
> dismantle a wing/breast quarter or a leg/thigh quarter...and they
> have every right to do so.
>
> In fact, if your dogs can carefully dismantle a whole chicken they
> should have a crack at that as well. Why don't you want them to
eat
> that much? Can you not "sort it all out" in subsequent meals?
This
> would be a likely and sensible way to allow for big eating as well
as
> not-so-big eating. Maybe not all the time, but certainly some of
the
> time your dogs should have Big Food opportunities.
>
> The issue you aren't having with separated body parts is the same
> issue you won't have when you feed your dogs larger chunks o'
> chicken. From the sound of it, your dogs are readier to go than
you
> are.
>
> I recommend you give 'em a chance.
> Chris O
>
Chris,
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that I ought to, once
in a while, give my Dachshunds a shot at a whole chicken and pick it
up when I think they have had enough? I have been having a problem
with my younger Dachshund because she is a gulper, big time! My
other Dahchshund slows down and does rip, tear, and chews the bones
but because I feed them twice a day those amounts make the pieces
smaller and they are not getting the chance to really work at it. I
fed my Mastiff and my Doberman frozen chicken quarters and it slowed
them down immensely, especially my Mastiff, she can almost swallow an
entire whole chicken! LOL I have now started to freeze everyone's
meals. Of course, being here in Texas this time of year, when the
big dogs eat outside their meals will melt quickly. =)
Cori

Messages in this topic (6)
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