[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11983

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. vet in Monterey or Santa Cruz
From: Christina Wynings
1b. Re: vet in Monterey or Santa Cruz
From: costrowski75

2a. Hello I am new here
From: Heather
2b. Re: Hello I am new here
From: Olga
2c. Re: Hello I am new here
From: Shannon Parker
2d. Re: Hello I am new here
From: heather pavelin
2e. Re: Hello I am new here
From: heather pavelin
2f. Re: Hello I am new here
From: Laura Atkinson
2g. Re: Hello I am new here
From: Yasuko herron

3a. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
From: esmolensky

4a. Re: obstruction?
From: nat_franc

5. ADMIN: SIGNING AND TRIMMIN
From: GWB

6. Keeping white fur white- especially paws.
From: kaebruney

7a. Re: 10 mo Dane
From: karimlizette

8a. Re: Need help! Tartar build-up
From: costrowski75

9a. Need help! Tartar build-up
From: Kathleen
9b. Need help! Tartar build-up
From: Olga

10a. guts
From: lhmcmaken
10b. Re: guts
From: costrowski75

11a. Re: Pork Liver
From: Olga

12a. Re: Big chunks of food - when do I take it away?
From: Tina Berry

13a. Re: problem with pooped out bone
From: nat_franc
13b. Re: problem with pooped out bone
From: Yasuko herron
13c. Re: problem with pooped out bone
From: blue eyed

14a. Re: My intro...
From: ginny wilken

Messages
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1a. vet in Monterey or Santa Cruz
Posted by: "Christina Wynings" cwynings@yahoo.com cwynings
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:18 am ((PDT))

Hi all ~

My vet is negative about raw feeding -
Can anyone recommend a vet in this area
who is supportive?
or recommend sources of raw food?

thanks
Christina

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Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: vet in Monterey or Santa Cruz
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:35 am ((PDT))

Christina Wynings <cwynings@...> wrote:
>
> My vet is negative about raw feeding -
> Can anyone recommend a vet in this area
> who is supportive?
> or recommend sources of raw food?
*****
If you trust your vet to be otherwise competent, I recommend you not
worry about his dislike of raw feeding. Being supportive of raw food
is but one aspect of the relationship. His medical acumen is at
least as relevant as his nutrition education.

If you are unhappy with both his dietary views and his interpretation
of the medical profession, then yeah, it's probably time to find a
vet who will work with you. If I were you, I would use as my primary
guidelines the vet's stand on spay/neuter, vaccines, drugs like
Rimadyl. I would evaluate the front office attitude, the way clients
are greeted and treated. I would make sure "seeing the patient"
includes the human. If these areas suit, it's likely diet will be
much less an issue.

I think a vet confident of her abilities can take a client saying "I
do the food, you do the medicine" without getting all huffy and
counterproductive.

However, it's your dog and gosh darn you have the right if not
obligation to have it treated in a manner you feel comfortable with.
You might get some good leads from:

Barbara DeGroodt
http://www.fromtheheart.info

k9tootr@fromtheheart.info
From the Heart Animal Behavior
Counseling and Dog Training

Her training center is in Salinas but she covers the Monterey
Peninsula and much of the central coast.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Hello I am new here
Posted by: "Heather" hpav061378@yahoo.com hpav061378
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:32 am ((PDT))

My name is Heather and I have 2 greyhounds Leo and Claire. Leo is the
reason I have started with the raw diet. We have been on chicken leg
quarters for 2 days now. Claire has done great she LOVES the chicken
and I even need to find a way to get her to slow down. Leo on the
other hand has had some D only a little amount tho before with kibble
it was a mountain of a pile. He also has a hard time chewing the
quarters because his teeth are very worn. Any suggestions would be
great. thanks Heather

Messages in this topic (10)
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2b. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:32 am ((PDT))

Hi Heather and welcome to the list!

I suggest giving them a few more days to get the hang of chicken
quarters. How old is Leo? Does he have any issues with his teeth
currently that would make him hesitant to chew bones?

My grey has had great improvement in both the dental and "output" ;)
areas since we started raw. Perhaps Leo just needs to get used to
chewing? Nothing wrong with doing it slowly, as long as he does chew
and it doesn't cause him pain.

Olga

Messages in this topic (10)
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2c. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:04 am ((PDT))

Hi Heather,

I am rawfeeding a greyhound as well. I end up cutting up the chicken leg quarters into smaller pieces for her. She is missing all of her incisors as well as the premolars (she used to be a cage chewer in her racing days), but she chews through the bones with no problems. If Leo is not a gulper and chews carefully I would recommend cutting it up. My dog still gets the benefits of chewing the bones (her teeth are finally beautiful) and will eat her food with no problems. If I just throw a chicken leg quarter down for her, she won't touch it.

Good luck,

Shannon

Heather <hpav061378@yahoo.com> wrote:
Leo on the other hand has had some D only a little amount tho before with kibble it was a mountain of a pile. He also has a hard time chewing the
quarters because his teeth are very worn. Any suggestions would be
great. thanks Heather

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Messages in this topic (10)
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2d. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "heather pavelin" hpav061378@yahoo.com hpav061378
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:22 am ((PDT))

Leo is not missing any teeth but they are very worn. I watched him today and he chews it up pretty good but it just takes him longer to do it than little miss " I can eat it all in one bite" Claire. Now to see if we can get past the D issues. Thanks Heather._,___

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Messages in this topic (10)
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2e. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "heather pavelin" hpav061378@yahoo.com hpav061378
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:23 am ((PDT))

Both of my dogs will be 4 in Oct. After watching them today I see that he is just taking his time chewing the bones up now Claire on the other hand inhaled 2 leg quarters today like they were candy. I am trying the once a day feeding today just to see how they handle it but my doggies always act like they are starving by the time dinner and breakfast come along, so this morning I let them have their whole days food Claire was done within 15 mins maybe less and Leo was about 20-25 mins. Leo is 77 lbs and he got 2lbs and Claire who is 62 lbs got 1 1/2 lbs of leg quarters chicken does this sound right in the amount? thanks Heather

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Messages in this topic (10)
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2f. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:03 am ((PDT))

Heck, my dogs act like they're starving 15 minutes after dinner. I wouldn't
give much weight to their feelings in that regard <grin>. Figure 2%-3% of
their adult weight to start with and adjust up or down if they get plump or
thin on those amounts. That'll get you started.

On 8/31/07, heather pavelin <hpav061378@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Both of my dogs will be 4 in Oct. After watching them today I see that he
> is just taking his time chewing the bones up now Claire on the other hand
> inhaled 2 leg quarters today like they were candy. I am trying the once a
> day feeding today just to see how they handle it but my doggies always act
> like they are starving by the time dinner and breakfast come along, so this
> morning I let them have their whole days food Claire was done within 15 mins
> maybe less and Leo was about 20-25 mins. Leo is 77 lbs and he got 2lbs and
> Claire who is 62 lbs got 1 1/2 lbs of leg quarters chicken does this sound
> right in the amount? thanks Heather

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
Bertrand Russell

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Messages in this topic (10)
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2g. Re: Hello I am new here
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:29 am ((PDT))

> Leo is 77 lbs and he got 2lbs and Claire who is 62 lbs got 1 1/2 lbs of leg quarters chicken >does this sound right in the amount?

Hi. I read one of your dog tends to inhale food (leg quarters),so,I think the food itself maybe too easy for them.

Why not buying whole chicken and cut up?It may be slow down the inhaling eating.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (10)
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3a. Re: The Care and Feeding of Mastiffs
Posted by: "esmolensky" esmolensky@yahoo.com esmolensky
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:44 am ((PDT))

> Now, with regards to weight gain..... is he looking to skinny?
(bear
> in mind that around 8-9 months most mastiffs tend to be pretty
lanky
> and "leggy" looking). One of the biggest mistakes that can be made
> for a giant breed dog is to put too much weight and stress on their
> joints while young and growing. Unless the pup is very thin (can
see
> all the ribs) I would be reluctant to feed too much at this point.

I can see ribs when he runs.

Surprised you have not had a blowout mess at feeding 4lbs/day to be
> honest!
Me too, honestly he's been handling it extremely well. No diarrhea,
no vomiting, just the first day he had those symptoms.
he seems like a happy go-lucky dog.

E & Reagan

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mgitaville" <mgitaville@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "esmolensky" <esmolensky@>
> wrote:
> >
> > ***EDITED BY MODERATOR. FAILURE TO TRIM MAY RESULT IN LOST
POSTS.***
> >
> >
> > I have a 7mos. old BB puppy at around 80# for now.
> > I feed him close to 4# a day. I think I'm feeding him too much,
but
> > he's not gaining any weight and he's been on raw about 10 days.
> >
> > E & Reagan
> >
>
> >
> >
> Marguerita
>

Messages in this topic (13)
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4a. Re: obstruction?
Posted by: "nat_franc" chickenchucker@gmail.com nat_franc
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:44 am ((PDT))

if you are referring to my post, regarding atticus, it was a small
piece of COOKED chicken leg that he got out of the trash. he was
having digestive problems, anyway, and the vet said that it probably
got stuck because of all of that. i have it, it is very hard and
sharp. even though m vet doesn't endorse a raw diet, he said that in
no way was atticus's problem attributed to his raw food. he wasn't
eating raw at the time he got sick.

natalie

Messages in this topic (2)
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5. ADMIN: SIGNING AND TRIMMIN
Posted by: "GWB" chiksika48@comcast.net kioqua
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:48 am ((PDT))

Signing your mails and trimming your mails ARE list REQUIREMENTS!!!
The moderators are far to busy to be baby sitters. Most mails to the
list that are UNsigned or UNtrimmed are deleted without notice. Some
from this AM have already met that fate.

PLEASE, sign and trim.

Questions or comment??

rawfeeding-owner@yaoogroups.com

Gerry Brierley-mod guy

Messages in this topic (1)
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6. Keeping white fur white- especially paws.
Posted by: "kaebruney" kaebruney@yahoo.com kaebruney
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:24 am ((PDT))

Hey gang, this is probably a little OT, but my beautiful white and
buckskin AmBull foster is starting to brown around his paws from his
raw foods.

What do you white coated dog owners do to keep your dogs muzzle and
paws from looking stained and showing bloody residue? Or should I just
consider it a byproduct of a healthy well fed dog and leave well
enough alone? *lol*

Thanks!

Kae

Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. Re: 10 mo Dane
Posted by: "karimlizette" karimlizette@gmail.com karimlizette
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:24 am ((PDT))

> "karimlizette" <karimlizette@> wrote:
> > My question is I know you are supposed
> > to raise the food bowl to prevent Bloat

"I wouldn't be worried...sounds like he is eating, right?"

Yes, and I will start him on pork today.

"Just feed him on the floor and let him chose how to eat...my Danes
most
often eat laying down. That is a normal eating position."

Sandee & the Dane Gang

That makes things much easier!

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
> How's he eating other food?

Before he started RAW he was on K**ble, he ate that fine but he did
have skin issues so we decided to switch him to RAW.
I will try pork today.
Thanks for all your help,
Karim

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: Need help! Tartar build-up
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:38 am ((PDT))

"cris_milam" <cmilam@...> wrote:
> I just feel
> like a bad mommy for not being able to figure out how to keep his
> teeth nice.
*****
You're not a bad mommy.
Keeping the teeth clean is a mechanical process. If he doesn't/won't
scrub them, you'll have to do it for him.

I recommend you continue looking for food he can sink his teeth into,
you never know what body part might finally do the trick. I have a
similar problem with my foofoo golden. His front teeth are fine but he
won't use them. Nor will he use his paws.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Need help! Tartar build-up
Posted by: "Kathleen" kbabcock1@yahoo.com kbabcock1
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:05 am ((PDT))

I also have a greyhound that does the same thing. No paws on meat, and will only chew with back teeth. I have been giving her pork neck bones and lamb neck bones. The are soft enough to be chewed that way, yet hard enough to get the teeth scraped. We switched several months ago after she had 3 teeth pulled. Up until then, I knew nothing of the raw movement :)

I am trying to get rabbit chunks as I hear game meat has tougher tendons and do a good job at flossing the teeth. Mine will not eat any thing poultry, no chicken, no turkey-have not tried anything else as it would an expensive waste of money to do so. I am going to try goat and green tripe as well as soon as my order comes in.

My tami does not like getting dirty, not with eating, mud etc. She skirts all around it. I don't know if that was from the track or what, but it is very funny. I have tried to help her by holding it, but she will take it in her back teeth from me, but will not chomp down until I let go. Take a look at the front of your greys mouth, mine has, what I have been told, something I never saw on any other dog I have owned, all her front teeth are ground down. The rescue group says it was from cage biting. I figure that is probably a good reason she does not pull on the meat. See if yours is that bad in the front. The greys also have a wide distance between the large canine and the teeth on the sides. All the other dogs I had, did not have such spacing as their snout was no as long. It bothers her to get things caught in that space, so she defers to the back teeth. As this is my first and only greyhound, I learned from watching and asking other grey owners about what I was seeing.

I hoped I have helped-they are great dogs, aren't they---:)

Kathleen and TAMI (Tuxedo Greyhound)

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9b. Need help! Tartar build-up
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:38 am ((PDT))

My grey wouldn't let food touch his paws at first also. Now he
doesn't mind if it sits on his paw while he chews, although he still
won't hold it down with his paws.

What does a great job for his teeth is pork hocks - between that tough
skin and the bone on the inside. But, it takes a bit of effort, so
what I usually do if I have a meal like that planned for my grey is
feed a smaller meal the previous day, so he is a bit more hungry. We
also get pork picnic roasts which make for a few boneless meals but I
leave a good amount of meat around the bone - lots of chewing there also.

Olga

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10a. guts
Posted by: "lhmcmaken" lhmcmaken@yahoo.com lhmcmaken
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:05 am ((PDT))

hi guys. am getting a lamb next week and wondered if I want the
intestines? my guys are on week 4 and had pork for the first time
yesterday. still hard to hear the bones crunch but they did well and
both look most excellent. thanks.
take care,
lynda maude and franklin

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10b. Re: guts
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:44 am ((PDT))

"lhmcmaken" <lhmcmaken@...> wrote:
>
> hi guys. am getting a lamb next week and wondered if I want the
> intestines? my guys are on week 4 and had pork for the first time
> yesterday. still hard to hear the bones crunch but they did well and
> both look most excellent.
*****
I always get as much as I can and let the dogs sort it out later. Ya
never know who's gonna like what.

If you have to pay a lot more to get the intestines, don't bother. But
if it's just a matter of dumping more or fewer entrails into a bucket
or a bag, then by all means take them.

Way to go!
Chris O

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11a. Re: Pork Liver
Posted by: "Olga" olga.drozd@gmail.com olga_d
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:27 am ((PDT))

> I was at the store earlier today. Got some flounder today. I saw in
> the
> meat dept., a package of raw pork liver. Is this the same as beef &
> chicken
> livers, or should I just stick to chicken & beef? Penelope

Well, it's not the same as beef and chicken liver, obviously, but it's
worth feeding. Nothing wrong with pork liver at all, my dogs get it
all the time.

Olga

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12a. Re: Big chunks of food - when do I take it away?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:24 am ((PDT))

"How do I regulate how much they eat per day so they don't end up too fat or
skinny as I want to try and maintain the 2 - 3 % of bodyweight I am feeding
per day?"

Some dogs will regulate themselves; as in gorge one day, fast the next or
eat minimal. I would recommend feeding your Westie away from your beagle,
pick up meals after 20 minutes or when they've appeared to stopped eating.

I feed my pack the same amount every day just so it's esier for me to keep
track how much I am feeding. But they are large pieces like a half a
chicken or a 2 lb deer roast, etc.

Whatever is easiest for you, the dogs will adapt. If throwing down 2lbs one
day and 1/2 lb the next, etc... unless yoru dog is an over eater (some are)
you will be able to easily tell as their ribs should feel like washboards
when you rub their sides, and they should have a waist line. I don't
calculate the 2-3% of body weight thing.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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13a. Re: problem with pooped out bone
Posted by: "nat_franc" chickenchucker@gmail.com nat_franc
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:25 am ((PDT))

yes, i am feeding cooked bone. it has only been for a little
over a week. i pressure cook them for about 1.5 hours and then blend them
or mash them fine. he has done fine on this. i am ordering some
Berte's Zyme today. and the ground was leg quarters and added turkey.
i took out a few bones from the leg quarters to balance out the meat
to bone ratio. and i am gonna grind for him for a long time as his
digestive tract is all torn up from his illness and surgery and the
bone obstruction. he got into the cat's food last week and ate her
portion of bone in chicken breast, 4 days later he had x-rays and the
bones were intact in his colon, he is not digesting raw bone. and
there is no way i am taking any chances on him not chewing well enough
and getting another bone stuck in there. my vet said that the biopsy
indicated that his stomach wasn't digesting properly and that is
probably why the little piece of bone got stuck in his small bowel. he
took his last dose of antibiotics this morning, so i am hoping that
things will improve as he has been on antibiotics for over a month now
and that doesn't help the bowels at all.
>
> natalie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Probably too much bone. You are not really feeding cooked bone, are
you?
> I'm not exactly sure what you are cooking and what you are grinding.
>
> Nevertheless, I would stop grinding, feed less bone and add a good
digestive
> or pancreatic enzyme designed to digest protein and fat. Prozyme
only works
> on carbohydrates and can cause digestive upsets.

Messages in this topic (6)
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13b. Re: problem with pooped out bone
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:03 am ((PDT))

>he took his last dose of antibiotics this morning, so i am hoping that things will improve as >he has been on antibiotics for over a month now and that doesn't help the bowels at all.

Hi. I think anti biotic does not help bowel prob because anti biotic decrease the good bacteria in gutt if I remember right.

So, I often read in book that if the dog got dosed with anti biotic,good to give probiotic to get the gutt have friendly bacteria more.

I think I read you give probiotic hour before you give anti biotic.

Anyone know about this? I know I read in book often times about anti biotic and probiotic.

yassy

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13c. Re: problem with pooped out bone
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:14 am ((PDT))

Hi I think in this case I would just feed raw only -NO cooked bones and stop any unecessary supplements/medications. Start with ground meat (no bone) and add calcium carbonate 900mg per lb of food. Maybe start with turkey mince from supermarket? The calcium carbonate you can get at the chemist really cheaply (its an ant-acid tablet) and it will help with calcium uptake and firming stools at first, once he can digest this ok for a few days you can try to add the ground turkey mince that includes the ground bone......

Its what I would do anyway,

Natalie

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14a. Re: My intro...
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:04 am ((PDT))

On Aug 30, 2007, at 10:16 PM, linoleum5017 wrote:

> Valerie,
>
> I used to be owned by a GP, as well. One thing I learned on this list
> is that itchy skin is EXTERNAL, not caused (or relieved,)by something
> internal. Food, in other words,will not likely help a skin allergy.
> Feeding raw, of course, helps in many ways, so it is a worthwhile
> endeavor.
>
> Best,
> Lynne

Of course, homeopathic theory would express this in a completely
opposite way: that the disease which causes symptoms is a chronic
systemic state, and that what seems to trigger the symptoms is of no
importance. Either way, proper diet will best support health, and
will not cause aggravations in itself. I'd invite both of you over to
Rawchat if you would care to explore this further.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (3)
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