Feed Pets Raw Food

Wednesday, December 19, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12399

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Moral support please!
From: adkjoe17
1b. Re: Moral support please!
From: Sarah
1c. Re: Moral support please!
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker
1d. Re: Moral support please!
From: Sherrel Leininger

2a. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
From: Dawn

3a. new to raw ... my picky eater
From: Amy T
3b. Re: new to raw ... my picky eater
From: Andrea
3c. Re: new to raw ... my picky eater
From: Lauren Funaiole

4a. blood in stools
From: juliarna
4b. Re: blood in stools
From: Chia
4c. Re: blood in stools
From: Tina Berry
4d. Re: blood in stools
From: Sandee Lee

5. Re: yucky liver
From: Sai Simonson

6a. Re: Relapse
From: Cathy

7.1. New to this list
From: lana_gorelov

8a. Re: Problems Fiinding a Variety of Meat
From: Brandi Bryant

9a. Hooray!
From: sltahoek9s
9b. Re: Hooray!
From: Giselle

10a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Scored!!! What do you think?
From: Heather

11a. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with dobe
From: Sherrel Leininger

12a. Pigs feet
From: thebestformyboys
12b. Re: Pigs feet
From: costrowski75

13a. Re: panting
From: Susan Fortune

14a. Where's the beef? coming from?
From: costrowski75

15a. Salmon
From: laurajean360


Messages
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1a. Re: Moral support please!
Posted by: "adkjoe17" j2dope17@yahoo.com adkjoe17
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:02 pm ((PST))

I just wanted to chime in and say that My dogs have never had a
problem with chicken untill I bought some cheap questionable looking
chicken from a store. I don't know if it was enhanced or what but it
didn't look tasty. It was a $1.09 for two large breasts so I couldn't
pass it up. My dogs both ate it at first, threw up 30 min later and
when I tried giving them the rest neither would eat it. My dogs will
eat ANYTHING to. So watch out because all chicken is not created
equal, I know thats what everyone has been telling you but just to
reassure you there is bad chicken.

Joe

Messages in this topic (10)
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1b. Re: Moral support please!
Posted by: "Sarah" hecarte@hotmail.com sarah_uk_2000_2001
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:03 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
> Some dogs have reactions to chicken that is enhanced in some way or
> another. One of mine gets itchy with chicken enhanced with broth
> solutions, but has no problem with minimally processed chicken or the
> stuff that is enhanced with saline. It's worth checking into.

As far as I know the chicken is just chicken - I don't know if raw
fresh chicken is enhanced in England, but I will ask at the supermarket.

I was thinking I'd go back to chicken for a little while - thanks for
that. I'll wait until tomorrow evening to give his tunny chance to
settle.

Thanks so much for your quick response.
Sarah (UK)

Messages in this topic (10)
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1c. Re: Moral support please!
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:18 pm ((PST))

Sarah,
This might be one of those times when it would be good to let his tummy
rest for a day. Don't feed him anything, but make sure he does get
enough water (make sure he pees). Sometimes if you have a rough few
days, that might help!
Merry Christmas,
Penny & The Menagerie

Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: Moral support please!
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:32 pm ((PST))

You might want to just give him a day or so resting without food. Let his digestive system rest for a while. Then offer him something like skinless turkey breast.

Sherrel


He vomited on Sunday evening (he'd had beef heart in the morning, but
hadn't really wanted to eat much), I gave him chicken on Monday,
that's when he had the loose stools, but thinking about it, he was
loose before I fed him. He was fine the rest of Monday and Tuesday
then was sick again 3 times today. He had mackerel this morning,
threw it up and ate the vomit, then threw it up again and ate it
again. I gave him the chicken this afternoon which he threw up (but
we cleaned it up before he got chance to eat it).

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Messages in this topic (10)
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2a. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
Posted by: "Dawn" draine9543@gmail.com dawnsdogs2004
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:03 pm ((PST))

Ok....thank you everyone!

I think I better pass on the stomach stuff.
I can still get lots of other goodies. :)
Will let you all know how it works out for us.

~~Dawn~~

Messages in this topic (9)
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3a. new to raw ... my picky eater
Posted by: "Amy T" amypatriciatracy@gmail.com rosiesmomlovesrosie
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:18 pm ((PST))

Rosie, my shepherd / chow 40 1b year-old mix, has been on the diet for
two and half weeks now. I've been giving her a variety of meat
(chicken, beef, lamb), liver and organs, and fish (smelt, trout), and
her poops have been fine (though she's thrown up bile twice). Week one:
She totally dug her food, gobbled it up. Week two: picks at it, turns
her nose away, goes and lies far from her food bowl. Sometimes she'll
eat if I hand feed her ... I understand the "tough love" concept, but
will she ever truly love eating again? Will she eventually like her raw
diet?

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: new to raw ... my picky eater
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:49 pm ((PST))

Yes, she'll go back to loving her food. Once she gets the idea that
turning up her nose won't make something better appear, she'll go back
to enjoying what she gets. The key is not to fuss over her when she
does this. Just let her be and if she hasn't started eating in 15-20
minutes just matter of factly pick up the food and put it away until
the next day. No coaxing her, no hand feeding.

Don't worry, just be strong.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Amy T" <amypatriciatracy@...> wrote:

> Week one: She totally dug her food, gobbled it up. Week two: picks at
> it, turns her nose away, goes and lies far from her food bowl.
> Sometimes she'll eat if I hand feed her ... I understand the "tough
> love" concept, but will she ever truly love eating again? Will she
> eventually like her raw diet?

Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. Re: new to raw ... my picky eater
Posted by: "Lauren Funaiole" LFUNAIOL@SIMIVALLEY.ORG lfunaiol
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:08 pm ((PST))

Hi Amy,
This sounds sooo familiar! My pit bull terrier, Buster, was the same way when he started on raw. I remember posting to this list with the subject line: "Buster the Picky Pit Bull." He actually took a couple of MONTHS to completely come around. He always ate eventually, but would stare at me with big sad eyes before he would eat. Meanwhile, my other 2 dogs were happily chomping away at their meals. It has been 2.5 year of raw feeding now, and Buster LOVES his raw food as much as the other dogs. He just took longer to adjust. He doesn't like change of any sort anyway.

Hang in there, she'll come around.

Lauren Funaiole

>>> "Amy T" <amypatriciatracy@gmail.com> 12/19/2007 1:13 PM >>>

Rosie, my shepherd / chow 40 1b year-old mix, has been on the diet for
two and half weeks now. Week one: She totally dug her food, gobbled it up. Week two: picks at it, turns her nose away, goes and lies far from her food bowl. Sometimes she'll eat if I hand feed her ... I understand the "tough love" concept, but will she ever truly love eating again? Will she eventually like her raw diet? Recent Activity
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Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. blood in stools
Posted by: "juliarna" juliarna@yahoo.co.uk juliarna
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:23 pm ((PST))


> Could you please tell me why one of my dogs when having bones for
> several days has blood in his stools. When I stop the bones the blood
> goes.
>
> What else could I feed. If I keep him on meat and veg he needs such a
> lot of meat just to keep weight on him.

Juliarna

Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: blood in stools
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:37 pm ((PST))


> Could you please tell me why one of my dogs when having bones for
> several days has blood in his stools. When I stop the bones the blood
> goes.
>
> What else could I feed. If I keep him on meat and veg he needs such a
> lot of meat just to keep weight on him.


### his body is adjusting or adapting to the digestion and elimination of
bones. You may want to offer us your sample feeding week or days and how
long you have been feeding raw. I'm sure you may have posted before, but
since there is such high traffic, we can quickly help you with the immediate
details.

My dog used to have a bit of blood in his stools in the first months after
I switched him to raw and it disappeared once his body got strong as it was
meant to. All it means if slight irritation in his intestines and although
it always looks scary, it is harmless and a simple diet of one protein
source for the first few weeks usually helps keep this minimal. Every dog
is different, however, and a younger dog usually has a slightly easier time
then an older one. But, as I said, each and every dog is unique but the
overall pattern is either someone feeding too much variety, too soon, OR,
straying from whole prey and delving off into too much bone.

Chia & Ricco
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Messages in this topic (4)
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4c. Re: blood in stools
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:38 pm ((PST))

"Could you please tell me why one of my dogs when having bones for several
days has blood in his stools. When I stop the bones the blood goes."

How much bone are you feeding him and what kind of bone? If he's new to
raw, his system may not be adjusted to digesting bone yet. You should be
feeding approximately 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com


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Messages in this topic (4)
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4d. Re: blood in stools
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:43 pm ((PST))

You most likely are feeding too much bone. What exactly have you been
feeding? Remember, the raw diet is mainly meat and fat, a little edible
bone and no veggies.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "juliarna" <juliarna@yahoo.co.uk>

> Could you please tell me why one of my dogs when having bones for
> several days has blood in his stools. When I stop the bones the blood
> goes.
>
> What else could I feed. If I keep him on meat and veg he needs such a
> lot of meat just to keep weight on him.


Messages in this topic (4)
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5. Re: yucky liver
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:10 pm ((PST))

There is less and less interest in liver lately. This was chicken, but
beef has not been well received either this week. Maybe they are not
hungry enough? A bit ago I offered the liver, heart and gizzard from
their shared chicken. No way! So I stuffed a small piece down the
girl's throat and the boy said, OK, I can eat this and finished off the
heart and gizzard. Guess his appetite was fine as his half of the
chicken disappeared in ten minutes. Girl dog is guarding most of hers
on the patio.

I am supposing force feeding is a bad thing, but back in the "old days"
of supplements I did a lot of pill pushing. Glad those days are over.

Sai(who has not seen buffalo liver yet)
============


--- With the difficulties people have feeding liver, finding one they
will eat readily is a good thing. If there is variety elsewhere, I
think you can skimp on liver variety.

My liver adverse dog will ALWAYS eat buffalo liver. So, that is what
he gets.

--
*~~ SaiCzarina*


Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: Relapse
Posted by: "Cathy" batcathy@sbcglobal.net batcathy2002
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:10 pm ((PST))

Thanks Giselle- I bought a whole chicken -organic- to boil up for her. I was thinking of about a cup of skimmed broth to add a couple of the SE caps to and syringe it to her. She will be put out but ...too bad. The caps I have are 400 mg...how much & how often do you think I should give it to her? Should i still give the probiotics also? Thought I could offer her some of the meat over the next couple days to see if she will eat.
Cathy


C Richmond
Battle Creek, MI

www.lesmarcresteds.com

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Messages in this topic (5)
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7.1. New to this list
Posted by: "lana_gorelov" lana_gorelov@yahoo.com lana_gorelov
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:18 pm ((PST))

Hello all,

I am new to this list and I am not feeding my dog raw just yet. Right
now I am in research mode, so that I can find out as much as possible
what is raw diet, how it works and if its going to benefit my dog in
his situation.

Another reason for joining this group is because my 2.5 year old BRT
has immune system problems, and I am afraid that he isn't going to
react to the raw diet quiet in the same way as healthy dogs.

So I was wondering if anyone on this list who feeds raw and had their
dog diagnosed with IMHA or any other types of immune system
dysfunction, would please share their experience? I would greatly
appreciate that.

Thank you so much,

Lana


Messages in this topic (44)
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8a. Re: Problems Fiinding a Variety of Meat
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:18 pm ((PST))

You're right I'm in the territory for beef - but it's expensive - very
expensive. And the hunter that said that would get me a deer has not yet
and probably won't...

What I have learned is that I watch for the meats to get marked down on
their expiration date... and load up! And I've learned that our local
slaughterhouse sells beef hearts for .99/lb - I'm going to see if she will
sell me the tripe as well. It's taking me awhile but I'm learning! And
I've found some great websites that can ship me stuff that I can't normally
get...like duck, bison, lamb, and rabbit etc....

So I'm excited - i'm anxious to make a big order and fill my freezer and I'm
going to go get my parents freezer that they said that I can have....

I'm making progress, just needed to be pointed in the right
direction....thank you so much!!!

Brandi

On 12/18/07, Susan Fortune <desperatelyseekingsusan@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Brandi:
>
> You are in great territory for:
> 1. Beef
> 2. Hunters
> ...not that your dog should eat the hunters, but the hunters can
> potentially provide you with meat.
>
> I hunt the supermarket ads, & also buy from a meat processor who travels
> up & down the state with dog-appropriate food. He has the interesting stuff.
>
> www.crestonvalleymeats.com
> He has buffalo bones, emu liver, rabbit, pig's feet, green tripe, organ
> blend & many other items. This California business doesn't help you except
> to know that raw feeding is pretty big, and you should be able to find some
> sources.
>
> If you're out in the tules, think of making a monthly trip to a
> slaughterhouse. A freezer from Craig's List makes that do-able!
>
> Susan Fortune
> Southern California
>
> "Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of
> battle."
>
> --
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>
>
>

--
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Bartlesville, Ok


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Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Hooray!
Posted by: "sltahoek9s" crazy4k9@aol.com sltahoek9s
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:18 pm ((PST))

Just wanted to let everyone know how happy I am. Almost two months raw
now and for the first time in his life, my 4 year old GSD is eating
with gusto and begging for more! I can't say what a milestone this is
for us. He has been very thin his whole life and I have always had to
practically beg him to eat. I tried canned foods, goodies, etc and
nothing until this diet. The bigger the pieces, the more excited he
gets. So THANK YOU everyone for helping us get here. I feel better
about what i'm feeding everyday.

Tammy C

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: Hooray!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:50 pm ((PST))

^_^

Giselle

On Dec 19, 2007 6:27 PM, sltahoek9s <crazy4k9@aol.com> wrote:

> Just wanted to let everyone know how happy I am. Almost two months raw
> now and for the first time in his life, my 4 year old GSD is eating
> with gusto and begging for more! I can't say what a milestone this is
> for us. He has been very thin his whole life and I have always had to
> practically beg him to eat. I tried canned foods, goodies, etc and
> nothing until this diet. The bigger the pieces, the more excited he
> gets. So THANK YOU everyone for helping us get here. I feel better
> about what I'm feeding everyday.
>
> Tammy C
>
>
>


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Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Scored!!! What do you think?
Posted by: "Heather" newbeginnings06@gmail.com malignstar
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:18 pm ((PST))

The only beef I buy is ox tails from my local processing plant (all
cattle here are grass fed and on huge pastures not feed lots) and they
are $1.50/lb so it's RARE I buy any. If you want to score good deals,
go to a place that processes deer and ask for the ribs. The bone is
completely edible (my 20 lb beagle is able to eat it all) and has as
much meat on it as any other rib. This year (and I plan to go back in
a month or so as the end of the hunting season approaches) and get
more deer ribs so I'll be good for a year. I got 6-8 (I didn't count)
entire rib cages this year for.. $10 ("processing fee")! My dog will
eat on half a rib cage for about 10-12 days because each rib section
is around half a pound each, his total amount per day. I feed way more
venison that beef, which is healthier and cheaper too. Since the
scraps cannot be sold to the rendering plant due to the laws against
selling wild game (unless something changed and there's a way around
it) most places just throw it away and will GIVE it to you if you ask.
I figure that animal died so I'll take as much as I can for my dog so
it didn't die for a few steaks and it's head to be mounted on a wall.

Heather

Messages in this topic (8)
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11a. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with dobe
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:18 pm ((PST))

Hello fella dobe person

Hi, I have a 5 month old female dobe and would like to correspond with
anybody that has experience with raw feeding this breed. She has been
on chicken backs for 2 months and have run into a few instances of
frequent, loose, mucousy stool.

I have 2 dobes 1 4 year old and one 15 months, female, spayed, rescues. I am just starting on raw feeding. So I guess I don't qualify for "anybody with experience" but I applaud you for starting one so young. But you will have to get answers from the other experienced members.
Sherrel, Daisy and Lilly

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Messages in this topic (8)
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12a. Pigs feet
Posted by: "thebestformyboys" llb6984@comcast.net thebestformyboys
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:08 pm ((PST))

I've bought some split pigs feet at a grocery store nearby. Since we've
stopped feeding wreck beef bones I've been trying to find something for
the boys to occupy them while we go in the hot tub one or two evenings
a week. My husband has a fit when I give them whole turkeys or chickens
or pork shoulders so the pigs feet (that "look like something") he is
having a hard time with.:)) But he will relent if the experts here who
have been feeding whole raw for a while will give the okay for pigs
feet for a treat! We have two large golden retrievers who are not
gulpers and take their time with meals, the pigs feet are bigger than
any beef marrow bone they've had. I say let them enjoy (i've since
found whole ones). He's afraid (of what?? I don't know)


Laurie B
Port St. Lucie, FL

Messages in this topic (23)
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12b. Re: Pigs feet
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:13 pm ((PST))

"thebestformyboys" <llb6984@...> wrote:
>But he will relent if the experts here who
> have been feeding whole raw for a while will give the okay for pigs
> feet for a treat! We have two large golden retrievers who are not
> gulpers and take their time with meals, the pigs feet are bigger than
> any beef marrow bone they've had. I say let them enjoy (i've since
> found whole ones). He's afraid (of what?? I don't know)
*****
Pig's feet--especially whole, not sliced or quartered--are quite nice
for dogs that aren't stupid about their chomping. If your goldens are
sensible, give them each a pig foot and enjoy the hot tub.

And if your husband doesn't like looking at something that might have
been something, tell him not to watch. My husband is completely
grossed out, disgusted, appalled and otherwise revulsed by our dogs and
cats eating raw critters. But from day one he got the joke. He has
been a staunch supporter for over seven years now.

He just doesn't look.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (23)
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13a. Re: panting
Posted by: "Susan Fortune" desperatelyseekingsusan@cox.net cactususan
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:55 pm ((PST))

I was brief because this was addressed around Thanksgiving. My analogy is that after Thanksgiving dinner, we unbutton our pants & lay around on the couch--breathing shallowly! [We swear we'll never eat again...until the pies come out!]

I have seen this in my min pin & the cattle dog, and they're the gluttons of the pack. When they look like a bloated sack of protoplasm (a la Ren & Stimpy), they pant. A bloated stomach rises in the chest, puts pressure on the diaphragm & doesn't allow that muscular organ to draw down into the abdomen in order to inflate the lungs. So short fast breathing replaces slow deep breaths.

I don't think it's WHAT they eat, it's how MUCH! Just watch your creatures & see if that's it.

Susan Fortune
Southern California

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."


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Messages in this topic (12)
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14a. Where's the beef? coming from?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:03 pm ((PST))

Sai Simonson <saiczarina@...> wrote:
When I
> inquired about where the meat came from he said, WA, MT, TX mostly
USA
> and some from Canada. Sounded encouraging to me.
> ...and yes, he gets his meat at the same Winco where I shop.
*****
The Winco near me used to be a value. Now it is much less so, and the
quality of meats (especially pork and chicken) has diminished over the
intervening six years. And "my" particular store is quite unconcerned
about discrepancies between the unit price and the label price.

Regardless of where the beef comes from, caveat emptor.
Chris O


Messages in this topic (2)
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15a. Salmon
Posted by: "laurajean360" laurajean101@hotmail.com laurajean360
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:29 pm ((PST))

Being in the Pacific Northwest I just found a great source for Salmon
heads, and backs. BUT I have heard that salmon can be poisonous to
dogs. Is it safe or not to feed my dogs this salmon and does it matter
how much, or if it is farmed or wild-caught?

Thanks In Advace-
LauraJean

Messages in this topic (23)
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