Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12394

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Scored!!! What do you think?
From: Lauren Funaiole

2a. Re: skin red?
From: costrowski75

3. Help Please!
From: Anntiga@aol.com

4a. Re: panting
From: Laurie Swanson

5a. skinny dogs
From: Diana Jones
5b. Re: skinny dogs
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: New to raw (sorta), need help.
From: life.therapies
6b. Re: New to raw (sorta), need help.
From: Lauren Funaiole
6c. Re: New to raw (sorta), need help.
From: Sandee Lee

7a. Re: Quick stool question
From: adkjoe17
7b. Re: Quick stool question
From: Sandee Lee
7c. Re: Quick stool question
From: adkjoe17
7d. Re: Quick stool question
From: Cdandp2@aol.com
7e. Re: Quick stool question
From: Sandee Lee

8. Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
From: Dawn

9a. reflux problem
From: Amy Maywald
9b. Re: reflux problem
From: Giselle

10a. Re: Wow people are nutz!
From: carnesbill

11.1. Re: Constipation
From: spricketysprock
11.2. Re: Constipation
From: Sandee Lee
11.3. Re: Constipation
From: Sherrel Leininger

12a. Ready to go to next level of raw?!
From: marge
12b. Re: Ready to go to next level of raw?!
From: Sandee Lee

13a. Need help with puppy
From: Randy
13b. Re: Need help with puppy
From: Sandee Lee

Messages
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1a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Scored!!! What do you think?
Posted by: "Lauren Funaiole" LFUNAIOL@SIMIVALLEY.ORG lfunaiol
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:27 pm ((PST))

Hi Brandi,

I live in Southern California, so we are in different markets, but I never pay more than $2.00 a pound for beef. I accomplish that by just waiting for sales at local supermarkets. Chuck roast and London Broil frequently go on sale at the big chain groceries for about $1.79 a pound. Also, our local Smart and Final store always has brisket for $1.79 a pound. Heart is always $1.29 at a local mexican market. From my perspective, the only great deal that you have found is the heart. On the other hand, those prices might be great for your area, I don't know.

Lauren Funaiole

>>> "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@gmail.com> 12/18/2007 10:57 AM >>>

OK - I checked out the prices at our local custom butchering plant - here
are some prices let me know if you think these are high -

Flank steak - $2.99/lb
Skirt steak - $2.99/lb
Round Steak - $3.49/lb
Arm Roast - $2.59/lb
Chuck Roast - $2.59/lb
Rump Roast - $2.59/lb
Bricket - $2.49/lb

And the big one!!!! .99/lb for beef hearts!!!!

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Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: skin red?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:41 pm ((PST))

"addicted 2 my pc" <mmoy1191@...> wrote:
> been feeding my Golden Retriever now for her whole life of 2 years
next month she has been very healthy ,yesterday for the first time
i noriced her belly is red?? could this be from
> an allergy to mebe one of the meats im feeding?
*****
If you haven't changed a darn thing and sudddenly she's got a red
belly, I doubt very much it's an allergy to meat. It could be a
sensitivity to whatever's going on with your climate/environment
right now, but again, if nothing has notably changed, it's probably
not a topical or inhalant allergy either.

What were you feeding, what are you feeding now? What has changed in
her life? Parasites? Dry, overheated rooms? New carpet? Cleaners?
Frostbite? You have to consider everything.

Since we don't have the details you do, we can't do more than tell
you to investigate. So...investigate and see what you discover.

And then let us know!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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3. Help Please!
Posted by: "Anntiga@aol.com" Anntiga@aol.com anntiga
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:42 pm ((PST))

You are all so knowledgeable! I have checked through the archives and I
must not be putting in the right words.

I remember a long time ago someone posted a chart or a link to a chart that
shows how vets estimate a dog's age based on the condition of its teeth.

Of course, all the raw fed dogs were one year old per the chart.

Does anyone have that link?

I want to use it to show a non-believer one of the wonderful ways that raw
feeding helps dogs.

Thank you!

Ann Gaskell
Norman (Perfect teeth, thank you!)
San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA

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Messages in this topic (1)
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4a. Re: panting
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:43 pm ((PST))

Hi Sheila,

This comes up every so often--you might search the archives for past
posts. It seems that some dogs do pant more for a bit in the
beginning. Not sure why. These meals are more work? Something to do
with changes going on in the digestive system? Is yours also drinking
more water? If so, you might want to make sure there isn't added
salt/broth/flavorings in the meat you're buying (check the fine
print). But that may have nothing to do with it.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sheila" <schatzee@...> wrote:
>
> Have had the dogs on raw for about two weeks and noticed my male
seems to be panting more than usual. Is this a normal occurance. sheila

Messages in this topic (8)
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5a. skinny dogs
Posted by: "Diana Jones" dianajones@hughes.net msmanchester2003
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:43 pm ((PST))

I have been having the same problem with my manchesters. Active dogs,
cold weather, feeding high percentage of vension lately. Everyone
looks very skinny as they are burning any fat to stay warm or running
it off during the day in their runs. Mind you they get beef heart,
kidneys, liver, chicken, beef on a daily basis. So, I have added
ground beef with fat in it to help with the weight issue. Plus I have
started giving them more chicken than the vension. Seems to be
helping.

Any thing else to help? I do not want to add any carbs because of
being raw and loving it. Any suggestions,Chris?

Diana

Burleson, Texas

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: skinny dogs
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:52 pm ((PST))

"Diana Jones" <dianajones@...> wrote:
> Mind you they get beef heart,
> kidneys, liver, chicken, beef on a daily basis. So, I have added
> ground beef with fat in it to help with the weight issue. Plus I
have
> started giving them more chicken than the vension. Seems to be
> helping.
>
> Any thing else to help?
*****
Fat.
Add fat.
Add lots of fat.

Generally speaking, except for the ground beef with fat, you're
feeding a fairly lean menu. Add pork, pork is a great one for fat.
If you're trimming fat from the heart, don't. If you're buying
trimmed heart, find a wholesaler and buy untrimmed heart. If you're
plucking fat from the chicken, don't. If you pulling fat from the
kidneys (that white stuff), don't. If you're feeding lean beef, feed
fattier beef like brisket or chuck.

I would always feed more venison than chicken if I had more venison
than chicken to feed, I guarantee. Don't cut back on venison, just
add fat.

Once you have got more fat on the menu, you can increase the amount
you feed as long as you add another meal to spread it out, otherwise
you may just produce loose stools, which--while not necessarily bad--
will undermine your goal of putting calories in and keeping them in.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: New to raw (sorta), need help.
Posted by: "life.therapies" alison.stubing@sbcglobal.net life.therapies
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:58 pm ((PST))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.

Thanks to everyone for their advice. My Dobie had a full panel done in
Nov. Everything showed up better than average health. I need specific
suggestions for what has more fat and more meat. I have available
goat, chicken, fish, beef. What parts have more fat? Fatty meats? He
eats fairly fast does that make a difference?

Messages in this topic (6)
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6b. Re: New to raw (sorta), need help.
Posted by: "Lauren Funaiole" LFUNAIOL@SIMIVALLEY.ORG lfunaiol
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:07 pm ((PST))

Pork! Lamb! Turkey! Seriously, pork is great for providing high calorie meals at a reasonable price. I usually feed pork picnic roast, pork shoulder, pork ribs, or boneless pork cheek meat and always pay about $0.99 a pound for it.

Lauren Funaiole

>>> "life.therapies" <alison.stubing@sbcglobal.net> 12/18/2007 1:53 PM >>>

MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.

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Messages in this topic (6)
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6c. Re: New to raw (sorta), need help.
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:23 pm ((PST))

Great...so just start adding more meat and fat. Chris just listed various
options in a message with a subject line of "skinny dogs". Lamb and pork
are probably the best. Pork should be available anywhere and is quite
economical so that might be a good place to start. I think beef cheeks are
also fairly fatty.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "life.therapies" <alison.stubing@sbcglobal.net>

Messages in this topic (6)
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7a. Re: Quick stool question
Posted by: "adkjoe17" j2dope17@yahoo.com adkjoe17
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:07 pm ((PST))

Sandee Lee wrote:

> Joe,
>
Time to begin
> adding in some nice red meat and a bit of organs.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang

What do you suggest for red meat? I have some lamb or I could get
some beef. I had been planning on adding variety I was just taking it
slow and making shore she was used to things.

Joe

Messages in this topic (12)
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7b. Re: Quick stool question
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:19 pm ((PST))

Whatever you have available. Lamb is perfect...or beef, pork....generally
puppies can eat variety right from the beginning.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "adkjoe17" <j2dope17@yahoo.com>

What do you suggest for red meat? I have some lamb or I could get
some beef. I had been planning on adding variety I was just taking it
slow and making shore she was used to things.

Messages in this topic (12)
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7c. Re: Quick stool question
Posted by: "adkjoe17" j2dope17@yahoo.com adkjoe17
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:10 pm ((PST))

Sandee Lee wrote:
>
> Whatever you have available. Lamb is perfect...or beef,
pork....generally
> puppies can eat variety right from the beginning.

I don't have to add a bit to the chicken first to get her used to it
do I? Can I just give her a big hunk of lamb for one of her meals
without chicken?

Joe

Messages in this topic (12)
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7d. Re: Quick stool question
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:10 pm ((PST))

I've got a "mixed" poo question. My guy puts out really tiny turds varying
from day to day from the calcified crumblies to really soft, very dark
squishy kinds of emissions.

However, the food doesn't really vary that much. In other words, I don't
really see a connection between what comes out and what when in in terms of
bone vs. organs, etc like I've been reading about on this list for some time.

Also, from time to time (about 2-3 times over 9 months) he's "lost it" in
the kitchen in the middle of the night and I wake up to find a mixture of
pudding poop little deposits in some areas and these hard crumbly deposits in the
other...both from the same poop? I've seen that outdoors as well...it seems
like he's storing things in there and just dropping them altogether if that's
possible??

Anyway, do I need to worry here? He does exert considerable energy to get
them out (mostly) and kind of walks around in a squat when he's ready
sometimes covery a yard or more before he gets anything out.

Geez I love my dog.

Carol

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Messages in this topic (12)
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7e. Re: Quick stool question
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:34 pm ((PST))

You could do it either way. I would imagine you are feeding 3 meals a day?
If so, either feed two chicken and one lamb...or add a bit of lamb to a
couple of the chicken meals. The absolutely worst thing that will happen is
loose stools! :))

Have you read these messages I have posted previously from other puppy
feeders?
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135757
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135847
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/137170

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "adkjoe17" <j2dope17@yahoo.com>
I don't have to add a bit to the chicken first to get her used to it
do I? Can I just give her a big hunk of lamb for one of her meals
without chicken?

Messages in this topic (12)
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8. Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
Posted by: "Dawn" draine9543@gmail.com dawnsdogs2004
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:10 pm ((PST))

I have been reading that pork is controversial....
true? un-true?

I am invited to spend a day with an Amish family,
they are butchering 2 pigs...I can have everything that they
normally throw into pails and bring out to the woods.

I need a plan...LOL! Is pork tripe good? Are you only supposed to
feed beef tripe? How will I know which part is tripe?
(other then the smell) I am going to bring a couple saw horses, meat
cleaver, packing paper and my grinder, grind and
package on the spot. Bring home and freeze.

I have not posted for several months...I am the gal with the Boxer who
has a bum jaw and had surgery for a jaw deformity, his jaw is only
hinged on 1 side (just want to clarify that so we can stay on track)

Thank you for all the help.... ~~~Dawn~~~

Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. reflux problem
Posted by: "Amy Maywald" amy1k@patmedia.net lovgoldens
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:10 pm ((PST))

Hi Jennifer,

My 5.5 year old female Golden Ginger has this too! She gets the "gulps" as we call it. She starts to swallow heavily and smack her lips, sometimes when it gets bad white foam starts to come out of her mouth. You can smell the stomach juices and it's pretty nasty. When I switched from BARF to raw feeding, she got a lot better but it still happens. I'm assuming it was eliminating the veggies that made the improvement. Beef, pork organs and lamb make the gulps much worse. She will bark and cry to go out anywhere between midnight and 4am to eat grass, which she will usually throw it up if I let her eat to her hearts content. Her stomach makes some very loud noises during the gulps. I have been sticking with turkey and chicken since they only give her mild gulps a few times a week. My other 2 goldens are loving the variety of meats but poor Ging can't take them. She is being treated by a homeopathic vet. She's UTD on blood tests, they would have seen issues with pancreatitis if she had any, right? Also, we adopted her about 1.5 years ago. The original owners fed her Alpo and everything they ate, she ate :(

She weighed almost 100 lbs then, now she's a healthy 59 lbs :) I still try her on different meats on nights I don't need a full nights sleep.

I'd be tempted to try your trick though!
Amy

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Messages in this topic (7)
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9b. Re: reflux problem
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:57 pm ((PST))

Hi, Jennifer!
Sorry to be duplicating my suggestions. Sometimes its hard
to remember who has which dog and what their problems are. : (

I'm not sure what to recommend, I'm stymied.

You could try to offer her a small snack of a couple chunks of meat or a
chicken foot to chew up or ls/lf broth when this occurs. I'd recommend you
add SEBP too, but you've said it doesn't help.

Best I can come up with.

TC
Giselle

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Messages in this topic (7)
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10a. Re: Wow people are nutz!
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:10 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "geraldinebutterfield"
<gbutterflied@...> wrote:
>
> Isn¡¦t it mind-blowing!!??!! I sometimes feel like comparing it to
> trying to explain to people why humans should eat fresh food instead
> of a Big Mac!!

I have a serious question ... If I buy a 1/4 pounder at McDonalds or a
Whopper and Burger king, what is the difference in the meat from the
ground beef I buy at the gocery store?

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (14)
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11.1. Re: Constipation
Posted by: "spricketysprock" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:46 pm ((PST))

I'm confused as to why everyone is suggesting less bone... For my dog,
more bone makes him poop more and it comes out crumbly and not hard at
all. If I feed all meat it seems like it's all digested or something
and he poops very little. Maybe every dog is different and you should
experiment to see what works best...? Or if there is something that
puts your dog towards the runny side (I'm thinking fish), perhaps feed
a little bit of that everyday to help balance things. If he's been
this way since puppyhood he probably has something off in his
digestive system.

Jess & Toby

Messages in this topic (58)
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11.2. Re: Constipation
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:54 pm ((PST))

Crumbly means you are feeding too much bone. The goal isn't to make them
poop more...it's to feed appropriately and that means lots and lots of meat
and a little bone. The beauty of feeding raw is the food is mostly
utilized, resulting in little poop.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@gmail.com>

Messages in this topic (58)
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11.3. Re: Constipation
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:05 pm ((PST))

Evo is a prepared dog food put out by Innova.

Sherrel

----- Original Message ----
From: bluegracepwd <janea@tpg.com.au>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 11:17:10 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Constipation

Hold on a minute - what the heck is Evo? Isn't this a commercial food
product? This has absolutely no part in an appropriate raw diet.

Why are you feeding ground food?

I think the issues you're seeing and very easily explained.

- Jane

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Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

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Messages in this topic (58)
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12a. Ready to go to next level of raw?!
Posted by: "marge" marge_moriarty17551@yahoo.com marge_moriarty17551
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:05 pm ((PST))

I have been feeding raw for one week now and I am feeling a bit more
relaxed (just a bit). I have stayed with chicken..the last few days
using backs in the morning, got some meaty ones, and using breast
meat in evening. I do have thighs and used them earlier but they are
large. I have been splitting backs and breasts since my guys are
smaller. My one mini poodle 8yrs, is doing great and for the first
time since we adopted him in 7/06 he actually had small, normally
formed stools. His stools have always been VERY frequent and soft.
The older mini P is 10..he has been more on the costipated side since
adoption. Now he is either constipated or very loose. I have been
regulating this with more chicken meat in pm...giving the other dog
the bonier pieces.

The wonderful thing is that the older one who has never been
interested in food...k***ble or human is excited for meal time.
Tonight we were shocked to even see him lick a dish my husband had
set on the floor after eating. He has never begged for food and never
licked a plate!! I usually clean globs of mucous out of his eyes
daily and the last three days...NOTHING!!!!! Clean eyes.

I do wish he had a regular bowel movement before I go to the next
step...but then again, he seems happy, not uncomfortable...and maybe
the slow intro of other food will get him going.

So, I have some sirloin in my freezer that we don't want so I was
going to try a small pc with their chicken. Is this to rich and
should I use pork or turkey? When could I add some beef bone..ribs
or ??? Any suggestions for the next level would be appreciated.

You all are great....such patience with the constant influx of
newbies ...we all ask the same thing...over and over and over.
Archives are definitely helpful and probably save a lot of other
emails. Thanks all. I am thrilled to watch my guys enjoy food and
thrilled to know they are getting healthy.

Marge M

Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: Ready to go to next level of raw?!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:10 pm ((PST))

Marge,

I don't see any problem adding a bit of sirloin, or any other new protein.
The very worst that could happen is a bit of loose stools so if that doesn't
scare you, go for it! If he continues having issues down the road, you
might need to think about a good digestive enzyme but for now I'd just feed
the guy and see how he does. Nice to hear they are both enjoying their new
diet. :)

Beef bones pretty much aren't edible. Slabs of ribs can be fun and provide
good tooth cleaning in the process of removing the bits of meat, gristle,
etc., but they aren't fed for bone content. You'll want to stick to softer
bones for that...and remember you only need around 10% overall so that's not
much. You can easily get that from chicken, pork, fish, etc. and stick to
using beef for their meaty meals.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "marge" <marge_moriarty17551@yahoo.com>

I do wish he had a regular bowel movement before I go to the next
step...but then again, he seems happy, not uncomfortable...and maybe
the slow intro of other food will get him going.

Messages in this topic (2)
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13a. Need help with puppy
Posted by: "Randy" rrostie@gmail.com rjrostie
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:40 pm ((PST))

I posted this question to the rawpup group but I just got a few
conflicting answers, and it was sugested I ask the question here where
there are more experienced members.

I started my 4 month puppy (Catahoula Leopard Dog,) on rawfeeding on
Friday. I gave him a quarter chicken twice a day. When he went outside
on Saturday his poop was very soft with some liquid at the end. He
also threw up a few times over the weekend. I came home Monday to let
him out and the inside of his sky kennel that he sleeps in was covered
in liquid poop.

He is 35 pounds, and I expect him to weigh about 70 when he is full
grown. Could the problem be that he is eating too much at one time? I
am feeding him a little less than 2 pounds a day.

He isn't acting like he feels sick as far as I can tell.

I also feed our 15 year old Lhasa Apso 1.5 pounds of chicken a day,
over two meals and she is having similar problems.

On advice I got from the rawpup list I gave them some canned pumpkin
with their food today, and that seemed to help firm up his poop a bit.
I am also splitting his food into 3 feedings.

Randy R

Messages in this topic (2)
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13b. Re: Need help with puppy
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:01 pm ((PST))

Randy,

If he seems to be feeling fine otherwise, yes, I would assume he is either
getting too much food or too much at one time. I think feeding smaller more
frequent meals is a great idea. And he may not need 3%.

Sounds like a lot of food for your Lhasa Apso also. Are you feeding her 3%
also? If so, cut back to 2% and see how she does. I am assuming she is
otherwise acting healthy?

Pumpkin is never a good idea because it just masks the symptoms without
resolving the problem. Best to tweak the diet!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Randy" <rrostie@gmail.com>

He is 35 pounds, and I expect him to weigh about 70 when he is full
grown. Could the problem be that he is eating too much at one time? I
am feeding him a little less than 2 pounds a day.

He isn't acting like he feels sick as far as I can tell.

I also feed our 15 year old Lhasa Apso 1.5 pounds of chicken a day,
over two meals and she is having similar problems.

On advice I got from the rawpup list I gave them some canned pumpkin
with their food today, and that seemed to help firm up his poop a bit.
I am also splitting his food into 3 feedings.

Messages in this topic (2)
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Feed Pets Raw Food

Tuesday, December 18, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12394

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