[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12388

There are 26 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: A newbie here!
From: Andrea
1b. Re: A newbie here!
From: Carrie (Milton) Mularoni
1c. Re: A newbie here!
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: Tom Turkey necks
From: pwdohio2000
2b. Re: Tom Turkey necks
From: pwdohio2000
2c. Re: Tom Turkey necks
From: Giselle

3a. Dogs won't eat chicken backs?
From: Carrie (Milton) Mularoni
3b. Re: Dogs won't eat chicken backs?
From: Andrea
3c. Re: Dogs won't eat chicken backs?
From: LINDSEY

4a. Re: Tom Turkey necks - long - dog's history
From: Andrea

5a. Re: raw feeding diabetes insipidus 4 month old puppy
From: Carrie (Milton) Mularoni

6a. Re: Looking for people's feeding experiences
From: aliciamyan

7a. Re: chicken liver
From: linoleum5017
7b. Re: chicken liver
From: Giselle

8a. Re: VERY interested in RAW diet for Mastiff.
From: Kevin Brown

9. fasting question
From: geraldinebutterfield

10a. Re: What about vitamin D?
From: arabianbluedobe
10b. Re: What about vitamin D?
From: Tina Berry

11.1. Re: New to this list
From: carnesbill
11.2. Re: New to this list
From: costrowski75
11.3. Re: New to this list
From: Chia
11.4. Re: New to this list
From: Lauren Funaiole
11.5. Re: New to this list
From: ginny wilken

12a. raw for 2.5 weeks
From: blue eyed

13a. Re: Chicken...a cannon butt proof meal?
From: costrowski75

14a. Re: 2nd type of 'Agression"
From: krheintgen

Messages
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1a. Re: A newbie here!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:44 am ((PST))

Welcome, Carrin, and bravo for switching your pups!

> My big fear/concern comes with bones since they are both gulpers, but
> I'm sure I can help them to learn to chew....

The best way to help them is to feed them big food. Food that is no
smaller than the size of their head. Dogs don't chew like humans do,
they just crunch and tear off a piece of food that they can swallow and
down it goes. Problem is that many newbie dogs aren't really sure what
can actually fit down their throat so they try to swallow inappropriate
things. The answer is to not give them something they might think is
ok to swallow. Since they can't fit big food in their mouth they must
rip and tear parts off to swallow.

> and I might look into grinding if I have to.

You don't have to. Grinding may make things less scary for you to
watch, but it won't ever slow down a gulping dog. Not to mention it
won't do bupkis for cleaning their teeth.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: A newbie here!
Posted by: "Carrie (Milton) Mularoni" kitkatsmama@comcast.net kitkatsmama
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:01 am ((PST))

Hey, Carrin!

Glad to "see" you here :)

Carrie

Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: A newbie here!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:32 am ((PST))

"Carrin" <mntgrl_2000@...> wrote:
> well). So far, I've fed them raw for their last 3 meals. Nothing
> terrible has happened yet!
*****
The changes if something terrible happening are slim at best. Don't
hold your breath.

> My big fear/concern comes with bones since they are both gulpers, but
> I'm sure I can help them to learn to chew....and I might look into
> grinding if I have to.
*****
If you grind you will be doing it for yourself, not for the benefit of
your dogs. The best way to discourage gulpers is to complicate their
meals. Feeding larger body parts is probably the most natural way to
do this; freezing may also challenge gulpers but freezing may not work
for every dog.

Dogs don't chew though, they gulp. Their teeth are there to shape the
food into a swallowable configuration, and the saliva is there to
lubricate the results. Most everything is chomped, mashed, smashed,
mushed, sliced, crushed, slimed...and swallowed.

I recommend you browse the archives for previous conversations about
this. You are not alone in your initial concerns, but the danger is
invariably in the mind of the feeder, not the feedee.
Welcome.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: Tom Turkey necks
Posted by: "pwdohio2000" pwdohio2000@yahoo.com pwdohio2000
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:01 am ((PST))

Bill,

I agree 100%, this problem did not crop up in 5 weeks. She had it
when she came to me. How long it has been going on, I don't know.
Possibly it was assumed that her bad breath was due to cleaning up
after her puppies, although I can't say that I ever really noticed
that with any of my girls, or my friend's Lab when they have pups. If
so, it might have been slight, and this girl's breath was very bad
and I am stuffy a lot from sinus problems!

The vet in town who ran the second labs for me is hoping this second
course of antibiotics will clear up the breath, assuming it is in her
mouth. She did mention that bad breath can also be a sign of
digestive problems but Kiva doesn't appear to have any problem at all
in digesting her food.

Yes, kidneys I have heard can cause bad breath, but her lab work was
all fine in the kidney/liver field even when they were out of whack!

The big concern with the first lab work was for immune problem, white
count and platelets, and something about MCH? Platelets and white
count are back in normal range now.

I am not dropping this, we will follow up on the breath problem until
we get it solved. I am still assuming that it is all mouth related.
She had a fair amount of tartar when I got her and with her gum
recession and bone loss in that one area - seems that is enough
reason why her breath would smell. So, I think if we can get her
mouth straightened around we will be okay.

For now, I will try to stick with the softer chicken bones for
chewing.

Regarding the Tom necks, what a pain those things are for a small
dog! If they are whole, they are way too big for a small dog for one
meal anyway.

I did find a reliable grinder that is said to handle the Tom necks,
for anyone out there who would like to know. It is the Weston. The
one man sells all kinds of brands and he said the Weston has no
problem with them and it has a big enough chute, which he says is
very important, the size of the chute. It is quite pricey, so I am
going to think on it.

Regarding something else causing the tooth problem? That is also
possible. I know of a lady right now with a Miniature Poodle who had
very bad teeth (full of tartar) when she got her. I don't know if her
breath was bad, forgot to ask. Anyway, she got very ill and was found
to have platelets of "0"....yes...."0"!!! How this girl is still
alive is beyond me! She was started on prednisone and many tests
were run and nothing was found (no ticke borne disease or otherwise)
to be the culprit, so it is assumed she has a primary immune-mediated
ITP (my St Poodle had ITP brought on by a sulfa drug (Primor) for a
UTI). Anyway, after months of being on prednisone, her platelets are
back in normal range and she is very active now (she wasn't when she
first got her). And....her teeth are now sparkling white with no
attention given to them whatsoever! And, I believe this girl is
kibble fed. So, yes, the teeth/gum/mouth problems can be secondary to
something else. At this point, with Kiva's blood work being back to
normal, I am assuming her gum/tooth problem is primary.

I also have heard of a dog having bad breath, and after months....it
was found that she had ingested something that was still in her
stomach and rotting, but had not passed through and had not blocked
her intestines...I think this was a Lab as I recall. I didn't know
the person, but my friend did.

Certainly tonsils can also cause bad breath, my Portuguese Water Dog
had tonsillitis, although, his teeth were white until the day he
passed at 12 yrs of age; and his breath was different....only had
that breath that children get when they run a fever, and he only had
it when he ran a fever with the tonsillitis....so it is a different
kind of bad breath.

She still has stitches in her now, so that can also account for some
bad breath (as told to me by a Mini breeder who is a dentist). She
said the stitches can cause some retained food to stay up under them
and maybe when the stitches completely dissolve, the breath will
clear up. We shall see.

For now, I simply stay positive and try to resolve the bad breath,
because there is no more gum/tooth issue to resolve, other than close
observation of the one on the opposite side.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Barb & Kiva

> Frankly I just don't see a problem like this cropping up in 5
> weeks. It's a long shot but maybe whatever is causing the bad
> breath is causing the tooth problem instead of the other way around.
>
> Good luck on finding out what is causing all the problems.
>
> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>

Messages in this topic (21)
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2b. Re: Tom Turkey necks
Posted by: "pwdohio2000" pwdohio2000@yahoo.com pwdohio2000
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:23 am ((PST))

The vet that I took her to Friday to re-do the blood work, feeds raw
to her own Cockers. It is one reason, I decided to try her and not
drive to my old vet - she seems very open in alternative methods.
She used Chinese herbs for her dog with cancer. So, I don't think
this is a vet that "can't see beyond her bias and fears".

She is puzzled by the bone loss and gum recession. She felt that it
could possibly be from constant chewing of the bones as that is
directly where she is chomping them, but again that is puzzling. I
have not had the dog long enough to know what might have caused this.

Even my vet clinic where I have been going for the last 30 years
knows I feed raw and are okay with it. They don't support it, but
they don't give me a hard time about it. They also know that I have
used a TCM vet for the last 8 years and they are open to that, mainly
because they know the vet and respect her as she used to work in
their clinic.

I have darned good vets and they don't push their beliefs on me.
They also draw blood for me to send to Jean Dodds to run titers,
which I have done for the last 9 years, before titers ever became so
talked about.

I don't deal with vets who have biases and fears. They start in on
me, and I don't go back to them. My conventional vet clinic got one
of those types in their clinic, I never saw him again, when he
started in on titers being good for nothing. He lasted there about
one year and was out the door.

Their most recent tech started in on my daughter about time to
revaccinate and she would have none of it and he finally shut his
mouth on the subject. Maybe he is now learning something about titers
and rethinking about not needing to have shots done w/o titering.
Kiva has not received a distemper shot ever in her life and she has
an adequate titer against distemper! Hooray!

Anyway, I am off subject. Just wanted to let it be known, I don't see
vets with biases, if they have them, they keep them to themselves.
And in the case of the 2nd vet that saw Kiva, like I said, she feeds
raw and is not against bones.

Barb

> look at the larger issue that is going on with your dog. It's
> unlikely whole--appropriate--bones are the cause of her dental
> problems, but it's an easy solution for veterinarians who cannot
see
> beyond their own biases and fears.
>
>> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (21)
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2c. Re: Tom Turkey necks
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:44 am ((PST))

Hi, Barb!
Not going to apologize for my previous post - it was meant, in
a mischievous way, to draw you out so you might post *why* you thought you
needed a grinder, so that we could better help you.

There are many people who post on here for the first time, many times a day,
and often, from their posts and wording, they've 'surfed' a little too long,
and aren't too sure what THIS list is all about, nor am I entirely convinced
that some of them know to what list they are posting.

This raw feeding list supports and promotes the raw Whole Prey Model Diet.
We aren't about grinding, cooking, grains, veggies, fruits, or unneeded
supps.

It is a huge list, with nearly 10,000 members. The advice and support that
you will get on here is entirely without ulterior motive, except to help you
figure out how to feed a species appropriate diet to your dogs. Many of the
regular posters are very experienced and knowledgeable, and a lot of the
newer members who 'get it' post with support and advice also.

My gut feeling is that the breeder of your new girl, Kiva, is one of the
many raw feeders who may not espouse 'our' (this list's) Species Appropriate
whole prey model diet.

We recommend that, if you can't feed actual whole prey - cut up portions of
deer, goat lamb, or whole rabbits chickens, turkeys, etc. with the all the
'innards' and fur still on - that you feed a variety of animal parts, with
lots of meat, a little edible bone and a little organ.

We recommend that supps not be fed for "just in case", but for a real need,
such as Salmon or Fish Body oil if you can't obtain free range animals/parts
to feed.

There are many raw feeders on this list that feed dentally challenged dogs,
some are even toothless! There are others who have continued to feed raw,
without grinding, to their dogs who have had extractions, for whatever
reason, infection, slab fractures, etc. There are also many raw feeders who
feed or did feed dogs with many illnesses; diabetes, pancreatitis, EPI,
IBD/IBS, immune disorders and others and found ways to tweak the diet
without compromising ALL the benefits of raw. I hope that many of them will
weigh in here, and tell their stories.

Because raw feeding isn't just about feeding the dog a better food, its
about satisfying the wolf in all our dogs - the need to rip and tear, and
be really full - there's dental, mental, physical and emotional aspects of
the eating of raw that speaks to a dog's inner self - its a wonder to
behold, and in your own kitchen! ^_^

So, my advice is to question your breeder as to EXACTLY what Kiva's diet had
consisted of during her weaning up until you acquired her.
Questions I would be asking;
1) Was this dog fed all raw? All the time?
2) What varieties of proteins?
3) Frequency of feeding of each protein?
4) What parts of the animal did each protein source come from?
5) What size portions were fed, how many times a day?
6) What edible bones were fed? In what proportion to the diet? I refer to
entirely edible bones, not w/rec/k bones.
7) Were meat and bone separated? Ground?
8) What organs were fed? In what proportion to the diet?

Also, I might ask if weaning pups or pups that are to be possible 'keepers'
are fed alone or communally. With other pups, or adults included?

I think it is possible, that maybe Kiva was not fed sufficient bone to
support her growing body's needs, as well as the needs of two litters of
pups. Also, that she may not have been fed enough protein variety, nor
enough liver and other organs. If she was fed boneless meat meals, with an
occasional w/rec/k bone tossed in, she may even have stressed the tooth
enamel (which may not be as strong as it should be) or even fractured the
one that was extracted, while not having been given large enough portions of
meat and edible bone before you got her to clean her teeth and work her
gums.

I'd want to offer this girl large portions, with softer edible bones to
encourage her to crunch and tear, to retain and build jaw strength.
Quartered chickens, whole rabbits, mackerels; maybe even whole prey, such as
quail, hamsters, rats, etc. I'd also be offering her liver, and as much
variety of other organs as I could manage, if I couldn't feed whole prey.

People who have posted on this list whose dogs had extractions seem to feed
just meat for several meals, maybe cut up into chunks, then move on to
larger parts with a small amount of soft bone, like bone in breasts, until
the extraction site has healed a bit, is less sore and the stitches are
dissolving.

HTH
TC
Giselle

This girl has healthy gums in her mouth, other than the gums directly
over the upper molar that was removed, and the other molar on the other
side is also starting down the same path, just not as bad. The rest of
her gums are healthy.

Sandee may have a lot of knowledge, but I don't think that my question
to the list about grinders was handled well at all by either of the
first two posters. I feel that I got rudeness being told that the
grinders are in the dog's mouth. I know that, and I was asking
specifically what electric grinder have people used with success for
Tom necks. Rather than anyone answering directly to that question I
feel like I was slapped in the face by being told an elementary
statement of truth that I already know.

I know this is a high volume list and I was keeping the question short
and sweet and to the point, I didn't feel I needed to explain why I
wanted a commercial grinder.

Barb

> <snip>
> > look at the larger issue that is going on with your dog. It's
> > unlikely whole--appropriate--bones are the cause of her dental
> > problems, <snip>
> >
> >> Chris O
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (21)
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3a. Dogs won't eat chicken backs?
Posted by: "Carrie (Milton) Mularoni" kitkatsmama@comcast.net kitkatsmama
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:01 am ((PST))

Ok, this morning I offered my dogs each a chicken back. They each
licked at them a bit and then looked at me as if to say "now what?".
Anyone else had this experience? We've only been raw feeding for
about 3 days, mostly chicken, some trout (I removed the skin- should I
leave it on in the future?), and then this morning I gave them beef
cheek instead, which they readily gobbled up. I'd love any insight...

Carrie
13 year old lab/gsh, Jager
2 year old lab, Greta

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Dogs won't eat chicken backs?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:46 am ((PST))

Possibly the backs just didn't have enough meat on them to be
considered food. They also could have been too cold or your dogs might
be picky. Backs aren't an especially important or helpful food unless
you are adding more meat with it anyway. Next time you might try
giving them a chicken back with some beef cheek as well. They may eat
the beef cheek and just keep going with the backs.

As for the trout, no reason to take anything off or out of it. Skin
on, head on, fins on, guts in. . .it's all good.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Carrie (Milton) Mularoni"
<kitkatsmama@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, this morning I offered my dogs each a chicken back. They each
> licked at them a bit and then looked at me as if to say "now what?".
> Anyone else had this experience?

Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. Re: Dogs won't eat chicken backs?
Posted by: "LINDSEY" ldebner@yahoo.com ldebner
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:52 am ((PST))

My mini dachshund prefers chicken back to most meats. I just didn't like how fatty they were. But he'd gobble them right on down.
I don't know what to say but maybe try it again?
Lindsey

"Carrie (Milton) Mularoni" <kitkatsmama@comcast.net> wrote: Ok, this morning I offered my dogs each a chicken back. They each
licked at them a bit and then looked at me as if to say "now what?".
Anyone else had this experience? We've only been raw feeding for
about 3 days, mostly chicken, some trout (I removed the skin- should I
leave it on in the future?), and then this morning I gave them beef
cheek instead, which they readily gobbled up. I'd love any insight...

Carrie
13 year old lab/gsh, Jager
2 year old lab, Greta

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: Tom Turkey necks - long - dog's history
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:12 am ((PST))

I kept thinking while reading this thread that this problem goes back
much farther than the five weeks you've had this girl. The fact that
she had a tartar buildup on her teeth when she came to you makes me
think she wasn't eating whole bones before, or at least not ones that
required much chewing. Can you find out exactly what she was eating
before she came to you? Chewing marrow bones might also be a key in
this.

Have you given her bone in meals since her mouth has been healing? I
would give her easy peasy bones and work your way up if you can. If
in the event she never wants to eat a turkey neck again, it really
isn't a big problem. Chicken quarters, pork roasts and such are much
better for her dental health than ground food. You may be sure that
she won't have a problem chewing ground food, but it is only going to
make her teeth worse down the line.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "pwdohio2000" <pwdohio2000@...>
wrote:

> She did have tartar build up, and it is better than it was when I
> got her. Why the bad breath with a raw fed dog is beyond me.
<snip>
> Now with the tooth removal, it worries me whether she can indeed
> chew up her bones and manage to not choke. There is no tooth to
> match up with on that side for chewing. Obviously the RMBs didn't
> help to avoid a tooth problem with her...so, my thinking is
> grinding might be the way to go to help save the teeth and prevent
> possible choking because she can't manage to chew her bones well
> enough.

Messages in this topic (21)
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5a. Re: raw feeding diabetes insipidus 4 month old puppy
Posted by: "Carrie (Milton) Mularoni" kitkatsmama@comcast.net kitkatsmama
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:23 am ((PST))

Hi, Dody!

I, too, am raw feeding a DI dog! We just started a few days ago, but
I'll send you an e-mail with some DI info to make it a bit less scary
for you. So far my dogs have had mostly chicken breast meat with fat,
and some trout, as that's what I had in the house to get htem started
on, but I just got 60 pounds of beef cheek, and 40 pounds of chicken
backs/necks, so we'll see.

Good luck to you!

Carrie
13 year old lab/gsp, Jager (my DI dog)
2 year old lab, Greta

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: Looking for people's feeding experiences
Posted by: "aliciamyan" alicia_larson@msn.com aliciamyan
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:23 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "bettathang" <bettathang@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello All-
> After doing some intensive reading about the pros and "cons" of
> feeding raw, I keep find people advising not to feed raw because of
> stomach/intestine/whatever tears, inappropriate nutrition,
bacterial infections, and on and on. I'm just wondering, has anyone
ACTUALLY had this happen to their dogs?

Heidi,

I'm new to raw myself - only 3 months. I'm not an experienced raw
feeder, but definitely an experienced k*bble feeder and can attest to
the cons of that. I switched due my 3yo GSD's food
allergies/digestive issues that climaxed with gastric torsion surgery
this last July. We also have a 12 year old lab. I must say, what
I've seen so far is worth risking a "freak accident" for the improved
quality of life my dogs have experienced in the short time I've fed
them raw. The pros: My GSD is finally putting on weight and filling
out, he loves mealtimes, his coat isn't constantly falling out and is
glossy and gorgeous. The lab is losing excess weight and she too
looks amazing. Both have pearly whites again.

Cons: The lab has spent the last couple years suffering from
arthritis. MSM has helped, but she has generally spent her time
napping on her bed...until we switched to raw. On several occasions
now, I've come home to find her wandering across the cow pastures -
outside of "her yard". She sees me pull in and comes running like a
puppy. The con is I'm worried she's going to have a heart attack!
Although we switched for the GSD, I'd say the lab has reaped the most
benefit - she has her sparkle back - I only wish I knew about raw
years ago.

I haven't told our vet yet, but since I started raw, I've been taking
the GSD in monthly just to check his weight. The staff raves about
how he looks...the've seen him at his worst. The vet hasn't been
there to see him yet, but I'm anxious for that time to come. The
last time he saw him, I was told I can't let him loose any more
weight. I was feeding him the vet-reccommended k*bble and making no
progress. He's a pretty down to earth vet...but from what I've read,
finding one that supports raw isn't too easy. When and if he
discovers what I'm feeding, he can tell me all the horror stories he
wants - after what we've experienced, there is no way I would turn
back.

Alicia

Messages in this topic (16)
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7a. Re: chicken liver
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:41 am ((PST))

Thank you, Giselle, you are correct, as usual, and your manner of
clarification is much appreciated....

My mind once knew it,
But my words, they blew it.
Out of proportion,
They made a contortion;
These you graciously nixed,
Now guidelines are fixed.

: )

Appreciatively,
Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Just a clarification, if I may, Lynne.
>
>>
> #### Actually, the recommendation is 10% of a variety of organs.
> Thats broken down as;
> 3-5% of the total diet be liver of some type.
> 5-7% of the total diet should be 'other' - whether it be kidney,
spleen,
> thymus, pancreas, eyeballs, ______; preferably a variety.
>
> Heart, gizzards, tongue *are* organs, but because they are meaty
muscley
> organs, they are fed as meatymeat.
>
> The recommendation to "Balance Over Time" refers to adjusting the
> constituents of a dog's diet; meatymeat, edible bone, & organs to
better
> reflect the whole prey model over weeks and months. Some people
prefer to do
> the balancing act in smaller time increments.
>
> HTH
> TC
> Giselle
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (16)
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7b. Re: chicken liver
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:08 am ((PST))

KEWL! ^_^

Giselle

<snip>
>
>
>
> My mind once knew it,
> But my words, they blew it.
> Out of proportion,
> They made a contortion;
> These you graciously nixed,
> Now guidelines are fixed.
>
> : )
>
> Appreciatively,
> Lynne
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (16)
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8a. Re: VERY interested in RAW diet for Mastiff.
Posted by: "Kevin Brown" jerseykev@aol.com noblarneyzone
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:41 am ((PST))

> I totally understand the benefits of feeding RAW, i'm just unsure if I
> could afford it or not. :(
>
> I hope I am asking the right questions here and I am sorry if I
> digress, its a bad habit.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken
>

I feed human grade meats and it has been costing me an average of $1.00
per pound. I am not including special treats meals. I shop, and keep
my eye out for managers specials and loss leaders. When I see chicken
quarters without hormones and such for 59 cents a pound, I go hog wild
and fillup the freezer, etc, etc.

Kevin Brown
Baby & Georgeanne
GuardiansByTheSea.com
The Jersey Shore

Messages in this topic (7)
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9. fasting question
Posted by: "geraldinebutterfield" gbutterflied@comcast.net geraldinebutterfield
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:02 am ((PST))

I understand fasting one day a month is good for dogs, it's also good
for people. How old should the dog be before I start this routine? Is
it ok to give her chicken or beef broth during this time or just water.
My little maltipoo is doing GREAT on RMB!!!

Thanks everyone,
geraldine

Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: What about vitamin D?
Posted by: "arabianbluedobe" arabianbluedobe@yahoo.com arabianbluedobe
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:03 am ((PST))

I agree whole heartedly with you on this Chris. I have learned so much
from this group in the short time I have been a member, Most
importantly being, "see what works for your dog" . Mine are almost
exculsively on venison for the moment(its free) but I am buying
whatever meats are on sell for less than $1 lb at my supermarket.
Hunters can be your dogs best friend.
April

Messages in this topic (17)
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10b. Re: What about vitamin D?
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:51 am ((PST))

How else do the fellows get their vitamin D, especially in the winter?"

Feed raw liver.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (17)
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11.1. Re: New to this list
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:51 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Chia <chia.m@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Fresh, natural raw foods are BEST for
> > us, and for the pets in our charge.
>
> For pets, I'm convinced. For humans, not yet.
>
> ### yes, probably best humans eat grains and sugars
> like commercially
> raised dogs.... maybe an odd chicken back too... ;-))

Don't be silly. My comment was about humans eating fresh, natural
***RAW*** foods. It's always a good plan to berate your
detractors. Makes you look smart .... NOT!

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (39)
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11.2. Re: New to this list
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:07 am ((PST))

Okay all, let's keep human eating habits (except food and drink
advisories) off Rawfeeding. Let's also try to keep in mind that
feeding foods other than free range is not necessarily the end of the
world. And let's really try to keep it civil.
Thank you.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (39)
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11.3. Re: New to this list
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:12 am ((PST))

---
Don't be silly. My comment was about humans eating fresh, natural
***RAW*** foods. It's always a good plan to berate your
detractors. Makes you look smart .... NOT!

#### not even going to comment about what happens to the lack of digestive
enzymes that men/women are now experiencing due to consuming the majority of
their caloric content, 'cooked'.

My sincerest apologies.. it is off topic for here and best to discuss with
others like minded in nutrition and health care the 'natural' way. I always
seem to assume that people take care of themselves similarly to the way they
take care of their pets/children. Dropped subject...before Chris scolds
me.. ;-))

Chia & Ricco

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Messages in this topic (39)
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11.4. Re: New to this list
Posted by: "Lauren Funaiole" LFUNAIOL@SIMIVALLEY.ORG lfunaiol
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:28 am ((PST))

Hi Sherrel,

I have fed two dobie girls a prey model diet for quite a long time now. Both have done wonderful on the diet. We go to our local dog park quite a bit, and my dobies are always the leanest, shiniest, and most muscular of the dobermans that come to the park. I feed the diet recommended by this list: 80% meat, 10% edible bone, and 10% organ meat. It's simple, convenient, natural, and the dogs love it. My dogs eat in their crates (no pad or anything to get greasy) and they clean the floors up with their tongues when done.

Feed raw, you won't regret it!

Lauren Funaiole

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (39)
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11.5. Re: New to this list
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:44 am ((PST))

On Dec 17, 2007, at 8:32 AM, carnesbill wrote:

> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Chia <chia.m@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Fresh, natural raw foods are BEST for
>>> us, and for the pets in our charge.
>>
>> For pets, I'm convinced. For humans, not yet.
>>
>> ### yes, probably best humans eat grains and sugars
>> like commercially
>> raised dogs.... maybe an odd chicken back too... ;-))
>
> Don't be silly. My comment was about humans eating fresh, natural
> ***RAW*** foods. It's always a good plan to berate your
> detractors. Makes you look smart .... NOT!

I dunno, Bill; it surely looked to me as if you said you were not yet
convinced humans should eat raw.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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12a. raw for 2.5 weeks
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:51 am ((PST))

Could it be that she needed a bit more bone in the meal? Also this happened when I bought a cheap chicken leg for my pup but no harm came of it, makes you wonder though.....

I would keep a close eye on her, just incase she has something not food related.

Natalie

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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13a. Re: Chicken...a cannon butt proof meal?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:14 am ((PST))

"Mary Tinder" <mtinder@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Chris!
> You said Slippery Elm powder if I "NEED" to soothe the intestines...
> How do I know when they need soothing vs just blow it out?
> Mary T
*****
Well....
If I were where you are with this, I'd consider a single comprehensive
blow out to be over and down with, without intervention. But if my dog
were having trouble stabilizing, I'd use SEP. Lots of times irritation
causes spasms that keep the hits a-comin' on. OTOH, I tend to use SEP
sparingly; others are more generous with it, which isn't going to hurt
or artifically stopper up the process.

Bottom line? If you believe your dog is uncomfortable, by all means
use SEP.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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14a. Re: 2nd type of 'Agression"
Posted by: "krheintgen" krheintgen@comcast.net krheintgen
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:28 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Tina Berry" <k9baron@...> wrote:
>
> "My favorite is the one who pops the kid's ball just to watch them
cry."
>
> Okay - Baron does do this and then takes the ball away - dang - it
must be
> the raw!!!
> --

Raw even creates dog on dog aggression -- Lady Jane, my Springer
Spaniel will take Bandit's (Sibe) ping pong balls (he loves to step on
them and make them skitter around the floor) and smash them flat with
her back teeth. She spits them out in front of him and walks away. He
will lay down with his nose on the flat "ball" and sigh very sadly...

Kathy R

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