[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12381

There are 8 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: wish me luck
From: Giselle

2a. Re: chicken liver
From: Giselle

3a. Re: meaty meat meals
From: marge
3b. Re: meaty meat meals
From: Giselle

4a. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
From: Cdandp2@aol.com
4b. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
From: Cdandp2@aol.com

5a. Which bone to buy
From: sahess0718
5b. Re: Which bone to buy
From: Giselle

Messages
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1a. Re: wish me luck
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:07 am ((PST))

Hi, Donna!
Welcome to the raw side!

I agree with the previous posters; wings are too bony, livers are too much
too soon, pig's trotters are too fatty & bony both for a stand alone meal
for a new-to-raw dog or pup!

Its better to start slowly, with one protein source and no organ, even tho'
with a pup you can usually move along to adding them pretty smartly, as they
often adjust much faster than older dogs.

The 'usual' amount of bone is very small, 10% edible bone.
There's also only a small amount of organ thats recommended, 3-5% liver and
5-7% "other".
Meat, which consists of muscle, fat, skin, feathers, fur and connective
tissues, is the main nutritional source, about 80%.

Here's an informative post from the archives, you can print it out and use
it as a beginning guideline to plan raw meals, and you'll be ready to move
along to more ambitious parts very soon;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*
My other bit of advice would be to read the all the daily topic discussions
and search through the archived posts using relevant key words, you'll learn
a lot!

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 15, 2007 8:07 PM, donna <heartathome@att.net> wrote:

> I got my 7 week old neo mastiff today.. of course the breeder
> recommended IAMS...LOL
> I just smiled.
> SO I bought chicken wings and pigs feet today and chicken livers and
> put them all in the freezer except for some wings for the next few
> days...
> We shall see tomorrow how she does. :)
>
> --
> Namaste,
> donna
> )O(
> Uppity Women Unite
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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2a. Re: chicken liver
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:38 am ((PST))

Just a clarification, if I may, Lynne.

You wrote- " **** 5% of the total diet should be organs, according to this
list's
recommendations. Doesn't have to be every day, but maybe balance it
out by the end of a week.

HTH,
Lynne"

#### Actually, the recommendation is 10% of a variety of organs.
Thats broken down as;
3-5% of the total diet be liver of some type.
5-7% of the total diet should be 'other' - whether it be kidney, spleen,
thymus, pancreas, eyeballs, ______; preferably a variety.

Heart, gizzards, tongue *are* organs, but because they are meaty muscley
organs, they are fed as meatymeat.

The recommendation to "Balance Over Time" refers to adjusting the
constituents of a dog's diet; meatymeat, edible bone, & organs to better
reflect the whole prey model over weeks and months. Some people prefer to do
the balancing act in smaller time increments.

HTH
TC
Giselle

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
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3a. Re: meaty meat meals
Posted by: "marge" marge_moriarty17551@yahoo.com marge_moriarty17551
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:53 am ((PST))

Somehow your message got cut off / deleted before you sent it and
there was nothing you wrote included in this reply. Please try to
send your reply again.

Jamie, Sorry about the bad post...I am new to doing this, don't know
what I did. Anyway you had asked how much my dogs weigh..One is 17#
and the other 20# (he could lose a few #'s.).

I am going by the 2-3% rule so giving them a 1 lb portion seems much,
especially since I have only been raw feeding since Wed night.
However, even a cut up chicken fryer I find that the parts are larger
than the ideal portion size. But this morning I gave them each a
quarter (leg/thigh). Yesterday and today I have tried to increase the
meat portion. That will be their meal for the day. One dog handled it
fine, but I find my other one struggled with the drumstick..he just
couldn't get the meat off and eventually walked away. He did this with
a wing the other day. He handles backs ok but they aren't very meaty.
I then cut the meat off and put is down with bone but he only ate the
meat. He tackled the thigh..took a while. I was going to add a small
portion of some other meat on Wednesday or so. Just a bit nervous that
I won't get the bone to meat ratio right...I know I am overthinking
this. Keep it simple...this isn't rocket science. It sure feels good
to be giving them good food.

Thanks again,
Marge

Messages in this topic (15)
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3b. Re: meaty meat meals
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:19 am ((PST))

Hi, Marge!
I'd recommend that you start with some small whole fryers or
Game Hens.

Cut them into halves, and let them eat until full, or trade them for small
bits of yummy treats when you think they've had enough and put the
'leftovers' in the fridge for the next meal.

If they get cannon butt from too much food at one meal, then just trade them
for it sooner the next time. ^_^ Easy, yes?

For your easily discouraged guy, give him a breast quarter; cut the meat
into ribbons, but leave it all in one piece. This will give him somewhere to
start chewing and he'll learn 'how to' faster. you can ribbon it less and
less as he gets more into his food. A pair of heavy kitchen shears works
wonderfully well, both for halving and quartering chickens and other meats
and for ribboning the meat.

You might want to warm his meat in a plastic bag under very warm water for
several minutes, too. This may make it more appealing for him.

Give them their food, step back, take a breath, and don't hover! : )

When you cut up a whole bird, make the backs part of the quarters and
halves. Cut along one side of the keel bone between the breasts and along
one side of the back. Its really easy that way, and then the back bone comes
with meat already when you feed.

A few other ideas for helping you're "I don't get it" dog to eat raw;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/130758

*

*Message #130758*

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/134336 *

*Message #134336*
Oh, and btw, the 2-3% "rule" is more a beginning guideline - small, toy,
active and individual dogs may need 4-5-6% or more of their estimated ideal
body weight to maintain their weight or support growth.

The only way to find out, is to start somewhere, just do it, and tweak their
diet as you need to as you go along.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

>
> I am going by the 2-3% rule so giving them a 1 lb portion seems much,
> especially since I have only been raw feeding since Wed night.
> However, even a cut up chicken fryer I find that the parts are larger
> than the ideal portion size. But this morning I gave them each a
> quarter (leg/thigh). Yesterday and today I have tried to increase the
> meat portion. That will be their meal for the day. One dog handled it
> fine, but I find my other one struggled with the drumstick..he just
> couldn't get the meat off and eventually walked away. He did this with
> a wing the other day. He handles backs OK but they aren't very meaty.
> I then cut the meat off and put it down with bone but he only ate the
> meat. He tackled the thigh..took a while. I was going to add a small
> portion of some other meat on Wednesday or so. Just a bit nervous that
> I won't get the bone to meat ratio right...I know I am over thinking
> this. Keep it simple...this isn't rocket science. It sure feels good
> to be giving them good food.
>
> Thanks again,
> Marge
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (15)
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4a. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:11 am ((PST))

<<<<<<Yup but it all begins with the first step...mtd>>>>>

Yes, and thank you for that encouragement. I can't change industrial
agri-farming, but I CAN choose what to feed myself and my pup (well, to a certain
extent...I'm working hard at trying to find afforadable organic, grass-fed
meats...my values collide with reality when I see those $12.99 per pound
prices...).

And there are other ways to support whole-food production and distribution
(education for one, politics for another) and, pardon the word, "humane"
treatment of farm animals (thinking here of old-fashioned animal husbandry.

Carol

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (19)
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4b. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:12 am ((PST))

<<<< But crap-fed subsidized confinement-But crap-fed subsidized
confinement-<WBR>reared
to come back and bite our behinds sooner or later. I prefer later.
--Carrie>>>>>>

Hello??!!! As if it hasn't already?? I just lost a 50-year-old friend to
breast cancer....young girls blooming 5-6 years ahead of
"schedule"....children who test positive for antibiotics in their blood without ever having been
given antibiotics before (it's from the meat/milk)....osteopororis epidemic
in the industrialized west (think dairy...drink your milk)....

And our dogs!!! When I feed my guy "store bought" (here I mean Purdue,
stop&shop, etc) vs. local or organic chicken, he breaks out in itching,
scratching, rolling almost immediately. Any link??

carol & co

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (19)
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5a. Which bone to buy
Posted by: "sahess0718" sarlordia@sbcglobal.net sahess0718
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:06 am ((PST))

I am new to raw feeding and love the wealth of knowledge here. I just
started so my corgi and collie are on chicken, however the other day I
bought them both a beef bone at the butcher shop and they have been
going at it for several days. I just read a post about removing bare
bones and that big bones may not be ideal. Which brings me to my
question. Should I buy them chewing bones at all or is what they are
getting in their meals enough. They love chewing on those bones but I
don't want to give something that isn't good for them. Please give me
some suggestions for chewing bones that are okay for them.

Sarah

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Which bone to buy
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:23 am ((PST))

Hi, Sarah!
Don't buy bare, dense bones so that your dog has no
alternative but to try to crunch the bone itself.

I occasionally give my dog a bone, on one of those 'after' days when she has
had Big Food or a gorge meal.

I'd recommend that you get whole pig's feet, beef or deer or lamb or goat
legs that still have some meat, the connective tissue and skin/fur on them.
Some of these bones 'may' be partially or entirely edible for your dogs,
depending on your dogs sizes.

But, for the most part, when they get down to bare bones, its time to toss
them out.

Slabs of ribs work well for flossing activity, too.

But for the most part, yes, you should be feeding big, engaging, complicated
animal parts that satisfy their need to crunch, tear and involve themselves
in their meals. Smaller parts that are partially frozen, or frozen in a
clump can provide some resistance, too.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 16, 2007 9:01 AM, sahess0718 <sarlordia@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I am new to raw feeding and love the wealth of knowledge here. I just
> started so my corgi and collie are on chicken, however the other day I
> bought them both a beef bone at the butcher shop and they have been
> going at it for several days. I just read a post about removing bare
> bones and that big bones may not be ideal. Which brings me to my
> question. Should I buy them chewing bones at all or is what they are
> getting in their meals enough. They love chewing on those bones but I
> don't want to give something that isn't good for them. Please give me
> some suggestions for chewing bones that are okay for them.
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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