Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12374

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: 2nd type of 'Agression"
From: Laura Atkinson

2a. Re: strange habits of dobes
From: blue eyed

3a. Re: pregant or nursing dogs
From: Sandee Lee
3b. Re: pregant or nursing dogs
From: jennifer mcfaden
3c. Re: pregant or nursing dogs
From: Laura Atkinson
3d. Re: pregant or nursing dogs
From: jennifer mcfaden
3e. Re: pregant or nursing dogs
From: Laura Atkinson
3f. Re: pregant or nursing dogs
From: jennifer mcfaden

4a. Re: Nanaimo meat suppliers
From: Sandee Lee

5a. Re: I have Cresteds too!
From: Michelle R

6a. Re: what did I do wrong?
From: Michelle R

7a. Re: meaty meat meals
From: Morledzep@aol.com

8.1. Re: fish oil
From: Morledzep@aol.com
8.2. Re: fish oil
From: spricketysprock
8.3. Re: fish oil
From: spricketysprock
8.4. Re: fish oil
From: Laura Atkinson

9a. Goat Meat Crisis resolved!
From: Mary Tinder

10a. Re: Once or twice a day..feeding
From: Sai Simonson

11a. Re: New & I did it!
From: marge
11b. Re: New & I did it!
From: Lauren Funaiole
11c. Re: New & I did it!
From: katkellm

12a. Boo's $2500 surgery for stones
From: Jai
12b. Re: Boo's $2500 surgery for stones
From: Sandee Lee
12c. Re: Boo's $2500 surgery for stones
From: Jai
12d. Re: Boo's $2500 surgery for stones
From: Sandee Lee

Messages
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1a. Re: 2nd type of 'Agression"
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:13 pm ((PST))

Ok, that's IT. I'm going to have to insist on the courtesy of an FDA
(Food and Drink Alert) on some of these posts! <grin>
Now get over here and clean my keyboard....ooops, never mind, Frosty did it.

On Dec 12, 2007 7:43 PM, Michelle Morgan <enzo@whereismichelle.com> wrote:
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Debi C" <dcole6@...> wrote:
> >People are always telling me that feeding raw will make a dog
> > aggressive.>
>
> They are absolutely right. My Caucasian Ovcharkas (all raw fed for the
> past 7 years) are much more aggressive than other people's... When
> Citibank stock plummeted, Enzo, our oldest male, kept pushing me to buy
> more, more, more. Driving Barynya to the vet is a nightmare... she
> keeps rolling down the window and shouting "Outta Da Way Fathead!!" -
> at traffic cops. Tsitsilia pushed Ebbie and Lucky off her favorite spot
> on the porch the other day and told them if they didn't like it, they
> could go sit on a de-matting comb. Even our baby Dima, who pretends to
> be a loving, snuggly, 170 lbs of fluff, cannot be trusted with
> children. Every time the neighborhood kids get a new ball, she pops it
> with her teeth just to watch them cry.
>
> Anyways, that's what I tell people when they ask me if feeding a dog
> properly will make it into a bloodthirsty maniac :-)
>
> Michelle
>
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Send more trespassers, the last ones were delicious

Messages in this topic (10)
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2a. Re: strange habits of dobes
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:22 pm ((PST))

Yes I'm trying to put weight on mine too but introducing the fast day has seemed to help as well as feeding plenty lamb flank and some beef mince (the fatty stuff!) I would feed a bit of heart in with the venison just now. As for sweetbreads I have often wondered this! Not sure if its called the same thing in the uk?
Natalie

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Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: pregant or nursing dogs
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:32 pm ((PST))

It certainly will! It will give them the proper nutrition during a very
important period in both of their lives.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "jawstrength101" <jawstrength101@yahoo.com>

will the raw diet effect pregant or nursing dogs because i have one of
each???

Messages in this topic (7)
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3b. Re: pregant or nursing dogs
Posted by: "jennifer mcfaden" cadet972@yahoo.com cadet972
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:09 pm ((PST))

my mom raw feed but I notice she does not have or appear to have as much milk as last time when she was kibble feed?? any suggestions. she has 7 pups that are a week old today.

Jennifer McFaden
Free Spirit Kennel of Virginia

www.freespiritkennelofva.com

----- Original Message ----
From: Sandee Lee <rlee@plix.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 3:33:49 PM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] pregant or nursing dogs

It certainly will! It will give them the proper nutrition during a very
important period in both of their lives.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "jawstrength101" <jawstrength101@ yahoo.com>

will the raw diet effect pregant or nursing dogs because i have one of
each???

____________________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (7)
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3c. Re: pregant or nursing dogs
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:39 pm ((PST))

Are the puppies lacking food? Or are they fed and content? Maybe
she's produce just the right amount for them?

Fenugreek, the herb, will bring in milk, but since it's already there
I don't know if that'll be much help.

Make sure she's getting lots of liquids. If you have to bait her
water with chicken or beef broth, bait it.

On Dec 13, 2007 12:34 PM, jennifer mcfaden <cadet972@yahoo.com> wrote:
> my mom raw feed but I notice she does not have or appear to have as much milk as last time when she was kibble feed?? any suggestions. she has 7 pups that are a week old today.
>
> Jennifer McFaden
> Free Spirit Kennel of Virginia
> www.freespiritkennelofva.com
>
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Send more trespassers, the last ones were delicious

Messages in this topic (7)
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3d. Re: pregant or nursing dogs
Posted by: "jennifer mcfaden" cadet972@yahoo.com cadet972
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:29 pm ((PST))

EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.

thanks for the tip I try it she been dranking the goats milk I suppliment one the pups with so I been giving her a little in the morrings. i try the broth. the pups did not take the bottle today so she must had enough last night for them.

Jennifer McFaden
Free Spirit Kennel of Virginia

www.freespiritkennelofva.com

----- Original Message ----
From: Laura Atkinson <llatkinson@gmail.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 4:38:59 PM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] pregant or nursing dogs

Are the puppies lacking food? Or are they fed and content? Maybe
she's produce just the right amount for them?

Fenugreek, the herb, will bring in milk, but since it's already there
I don't know if that'll be much help.

Make sure she's getting lots of liquids. If you have to bait her
water with chicken or beef broth, bait it.

Messages in this topic (7)
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3e. Re: pregant or nursing dogs
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:59 pm ((PST))

If you're bottle feeding too, and they're not demanding as much milk,
she won't produce as much ...at least, that's what I've heard/read.
It's one of those demand/supply thing. Like raw feeding, unnecessary
supplementation of nursing puppies without some indication of the need
for it cause cause more headache than help.

On Dec 13, 2007 2:20 PM, jennifer mcfaden <cadet972@yahoo.com> wrote:
> EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.
>
>
> thanks for the tip I try it she been dranking the goats milk I suppliment one the pups with so I been giving her a little in the morrings. i try the broth. the pups did not take the bottle today so she must had enough last night for them.
>
> Jennifer McFaden
> Free Spirit Kennel of Virginia
> www.freespiritkennelofva.com
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Send more trespassers, the last ones were delicious

Messages in this topic (7)
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3f. Re: pregant or nursing dogs
Posted by: "jennifer mcfaden" cadet972@yahoo.com cadet972
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:58 pm ((PST))

Today was the only the second day we offered tueday she would not nurse them at all, it was wenday moring when I offer the first bottle the two girls and one boy that were screeming, and the boy the only one who drank and the dam go figure,lol. I offer today to the boy to make sure he nursed I figure if had over night he reject the bottle and he did. Now I still giving the dam milk in a bowl to encourage her to drink but unsell need the pups will not have a bottle offered again unless it seem need.

Jennifer McFaden
Free Spirit Kennel of Virginia

www.freespiritkennelofva.com

____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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Messages in this topic (7)
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4a. Re: Nanaimo meat suppliers
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:41 pm ((PST))

We know what's right and what's wrong by looking at facts....something
that's missing entirely on Katie's site! :)

Facts will be found in the information provided on this list, in the sites
we continually recommend such as....
http://rawfed.com
http://rawfed.com/myths/index.html

And there is a rebuttal to that article found here....
http://rawfed.com./myths/rebuttal.html

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "sarahliepins" <sarahliepins@yahoo.com>
>
> oh and i also wanted to ask about this website this lady really trashes
> this diet who to say whats right and whats wrong exactly?
>
> http://www.secondchanceranch.com/training/raw_meat/index.html
> <http://www.secondchanceranch.com/training/raw_meat/index.html>

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: I have Cresteds too!
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:09 pm ((PST))

I will answer "in between the lines" in purple.....

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

----- Original Message ----
From: Justin Cole <watertestersocal@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:56:09 AM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] I have Cresteds too!

This is perfect! I have so many questions I dint know where to begin. Well first of all I'm in southern California
Awesome, I was born and rasied there, tho I live in good ole Mississippi now. I was born in Pomona, but lived mostly in Rancho Cucamonga/Alta Loma and Ontario.....I graduated from Etiwanda HS. :-) Good times! I have a cousin who has cresteds, she lives up in Nipomo (above Santa Barbara) I know if shes able, she would help you get into showing, there are also tons of folks in your area who both have Cresteds and show and can help get you started. I can and will help but we are geographically challenged and limited to just email contact....someone locally could do soooo much more for you.
had my Cresteds for almost a year shimoti (my male) and Katrina (my female) oh ya and then there is our little rescue Eugene were trying to find him a good home rite now.
I know almost everyone whos involved in Cresteds, who did you get your cresteds from?
am anxious to get on this raw diet Ive been wanting to show but I have a few problems we need to get over.
Personally, my best advice, is to just do it. Buy a freezer so you can stock up on good sales. You can go to the peirs and find great deals on wild caught fishes. You have tons of ethnic markets where you can find good un enhanced meats....So Cal is a wealth of food sources.
I have only been feeding raw for a few months but my kids have had venison, chicken, beef, turkey and pork. I was nervous and began with hamburger, I just balled up little meatball bite size piece and fed them.....then I waited. I was just certain someone was going to die, lol They didnt, tho I know now that a meal just of hamburger isnt the best way to go. Then I moved on to the dreaded chicken....I got a couple of fryers and quartered them, gave everyone a piece and watched and waited...certain someone would die. They didnt. Then I notived the teeth were whiter, less plaque bujild up. I noticed my one shaved puff who has ALWAYS had a horrible frizzy coat...wasnt so frizzy. My puffs I have in show coat...one has always had the BEST coat Ive ever seen....he looked even better, and the other 2 who were not clean at all, after spending the day digging under the flowers in the planter...even dirty, they had this sheen and sparkle. After a bath....I was
astounded at the difference I knew must be caused by the new diet. I have noticed my dogs who have always been typically too thin no matter how much kibble I fed them, looked good...no..not just good, they looked really great. They were building mucle mass and were lean, but extremely healthy looking. My kids who were always too fat, despite having them on WAY too expensive diet kibble from the vets.....magically within a month, were almost back to their ideal weights! And...you know, they eat those "horrid" and "deadly" chicken bones several tiems a week and they do just fine. :-) My picky eaters, are no more. I have solved so many problems with this diet I can not even begin to tell you how THRILLED I am. I know it isnt a cureall and I know it isnt going to fix everything by itself, but it is allowing my dogs the healthy systems they need to fix most of the problems themselves. I spend more time with my babies now, cuz I supervise meal times, but
its a fun sort of bonding time for us. I am currently feeding 13 cresteds, 1 australian shepherd and 2 cats, all on raw. Most are mine, some are fosters and rescues Ive taken in. I do private rescue and if I dont find them a home, I just keep them. They can live out their lives here, eating a fantastic diet and enjoying a romp out in the yard. They all get along, and so can all be out together, so its really no trouble. Tho it does get interesting and I have to get more creative when Ive got a bitch in season ..LOL I am full to my limit at the moment tho...no room for more. I passed on an exceptional breeding opportunity for one of my girls a few months ago because of this. :-( Oh well, heres always next year. :-)
First is socialization, the breeder I got them froom is getting old he has very good bloodlines but he dosent show much anymore and his dogs are lacking in social skills but they have come a long way. Shimoti is starting to clear up from his acne , I thought I had them on a good diet little did I know.
Yea, we all "think" we are doing what we're supposed to. Feeding the good expensive kibble and following our vets advice, after all they went to school for a very long time and would only give us the best advice for our animals...right? NOT in every case!!
Since taking him off kibble that had soy it has helped but now I want to take it a step further. Katrina has what looks like a rash on the inner part of her hein quarters, Im hoping the raw feeding will help all of this. Also my wife needs some convincing still of courser its hard
to get over all the myths of raw meat and bone.
Make sure to involve her, sit down together and read over the raw myths page on the groups website. There is a whole page of raw resource links, to recipes and websites and just a ton of interesting stuff. It is the COOKED bones that are dangerous..no cooked bones, no smoked or cured bones, those are the ones that WILL splinter. Raw edible bones and meat are what they are supposed to be eating. I have met with a great deal of ignorant and mean comments from members of my family and friends when they found out I was feeding raw. Im sticking to my decision, it is whats best for my dogs and thats what you have to know in your heart to make the switch. Just make up your mind, go buy a nice un enhanced chicken and just feed it to them. :-)
We know few people with crest eds in our neck of the woods however no one itno raw, so I would love to soak up as much info as possible I want to know everything there is to know about showing and feeding raw so lets start with your suggestion on a first meal?
Most folks suggest chicken, I didnt use chicken, but only because I didnt have any at the time. I started with venison (deer) because I live in the rural south and have lots of hunters willing to share. Actually their very first raw experience was hamburger....gave them some raw meatballs for breakfast. That nite they had chunks of venison. it all went over very very well. I did have some with runny tar like stools (naturally my white puff boy, LOL) But I know its because venison is very rich and as a first raw meal, it was a bit much. That and I also mixed 2 protiens on the same day for their first meal. LOL I did 2 big "no-nos" right off the bat, but I had very few with loose stools, most took to it very v ery naturally. I had minimal trouble. Their first week they had 3 different protein sources and I had very happy dogs with very little stool troubles.
While on kibble..I did notice about every 3 to 6 months, for no apparent reason, everyone would go thru a few days of vomitting and/or diarhea, like real explosive diarhea. Vet never found a reason, just treated with flagyl (tummy meds) to sooth irritated tummies...usually with held food for a day or so to calm everything down and then they were fine. I know it was the inapproprite diet of processed yucky kibble combined with following the <over> vaccination policy of my vet that was causing the upset. Fillers and colors and additives and chemicals...all that crap is just not good for them. Ive had less stool issues with my kids while on raw than I did on kibble. And I have ALOT of stools to deal with everyday feeding 14 dogs!
Which brings me to another good thing, stools are smaller, and they turn to white powdery dust within a few days, even the loose ones. :-)
also whats your take on fruits and veggies? My dogs love them.
I see no problem adding them as a treat. Its like, every once in a while I just really want a candy bar or ice cream or something..just some good ole junk food. If the dogs like them and you want to feed them, do it. Just do it in very minimal moderation, since they can not get any nutritional value from them. It might be a good source for you to use as a training treat or something. it is my suggestion if you do feed them, not to let them take up a portion of the diet which should be filled with yummy natural meats.
Also I want to show my dogs I think they are the greatest
Our own babies are always perfect, arent they? :-) Send me pics, if you can and pedigrees, I will help you, but I will be nice about it, I promise. :-) The pics should be with the dog standing, as if you were presenting him on the table for judging. Views from both sides, from the rear and from the front, all while hes standing as I said. Also some natural pictures, just out in the yard playing or something will give me an idea of the natural movement.
however others are quick to point out faults, I know there is know perfect dog but how do I know that Im not going to be showing my dogs in vein?
Even if your current dogs are not best in show winners (how many best in show winners are out there anyway...not many!!!) no effort to learn is ever in vein. It might be that perhaps conformation is not what your dog was meant to do, that does not eliminate all other competitive aspects of showing. You still have agility and obedience, both of which are important. if not more important than comformation because they test, not just how the dog is put together, but the mental ability as well as the communication and bond between owner and dog. There is no dog more beautiful than one working as a well oiled team with his owner, be it in the conformation ring, or the obedience ring or the agilty field. So "showing" can mean many things beyond just conformation. Do not let others discourage your wish to learn!!
I better stop here I might go on forever! Im so glad I met another crested owner who feeds raw. Thanks for the reply and all the info
Seems I am the one who went on "forever" LOL Please feel free to email me ANYTIME, if you have questions, or your wife has questions, both of you, contact me anytime, please! Also, check out my website, you can see my kids there, I have some win pictures from when I showed there. I havent really shown much. I went to my National specialty the American Chinese Crested Club show, back in May in OKC..my girl Secret took a 3rd in the HUGE bred by class one day, that was very exciting. Then last September I entered 4 of my kids at the regional show in Nashville, TN, the Chinese Crested Club of Nashville. I was even asked to judge the puppy match, which was a great and wonderful honor! But my puff boy Philbert, took 3rd in his bred by class, and Secret took 1st!! and my little hairless boy Indy took 2nd in a HUGE open hairless class and my puff bitch puppy took 2nd in her puppy class. So my kids did extremely well and I was soooooooo pleased! I LOVE to show.
I havent been able to due to finances....but things are looking much better for 08..already got a show planned in January, so Im hopful the rest of the year will just continue to improve. :-)

Im glad to meet another crested person too, I can imagine having another breed, these kids are just so great! :-)
Hope some of this info makes sense to you and will help you and your wife on your decision.
Michelle

Justin

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6a. Re: what did I do wrong?
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:09 pm ((PST))

Perhaps the other stuff has all been frozen prior to feeding??? Maybe the freshness of this "kill" you have provided is throwing them off??? Just guessing here.

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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7a. Re: meaty meat meals
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:17 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 12/13/2007 8:25:13 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jamiedolan@gmail.com writes:

If your feeding to little bone I would watch and be careful of loose
stools. If your feeding too much, there stools may get very hard and they
may get a bit constipated.

Jamie is right.. BUT.. remember that only a very small portion of the overall
diet needs to be edible bone. And pork bones are entirely edible for all but
the very tiniest dogs.

There is no need to feed bones every day, or even every other day. Over-doing
bone can cause constipation and rarely impaction. And Under feeding bone
(less than 10% of the overall diet, not daily..) will cause looser stools than
normal, but will NOT cause diarrhea.

Catherine R.

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

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8.1. Re: fish oil
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:17 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 12/13/2007 5:18:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jess.hamway@gmail.com writes:

My dog has been suffering from dandruff as well as an oily coat and a
dry nose. I just started giving him fish oil pills to see if they make
a difference... hopefully they will help rather than further disrupt
the O6 to O3 ratio. *fingers crossed.*

Jess,

i don't know about dandruff.. can't see it in the dust all over my house..
lol.

but i do know that when the dogs' coats dry out in the heat and in the worst
part of the winter feeding them fattier meat helps far more than fish oil.
But i do make the extra effort to remember to add salmon oil during these times
too..mostly.

Catherine R.

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8.2. Re: fish oil
Posted by: "spricketysprock" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:29 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...>
wrote:
>
> Jess,
>
> This screams "get a thyroid test" to me. Make sure it's a full panel.

haha Oh boy, not that again. I brought my dog in for $300 worth of
blood tests; everything came out beautifully. Unfortunately I don't
think it was the "full panel" you all recommend... even though I
specified it. grr. He'll have to wait another few months for me to
cough up the dough... (he is also approaching 11 yrs).

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8.3. Re: fish oil
Posted by: "spricketysprock" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:30 pm ((PST))

> Adding salmon oil for the larger benefits is a fine idea; adding fat to
> the diet may also help with dry skin.
> Chris O
>
Duck is on the menu!

Messages in this topic (90)
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8.4. Re: fish oil
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:57 pm ((PST))

Paying money for tests you don't need while not getting what you
really wanted is one of the things that REALLY irks me about some vet
offices.

www.itsfortheanimals.com has the info on the full thyroid
panel through Dr. Dodds. But we should proably take THAT conversation
to rawchat <G>
>
> haha Oh boy, not that again. I brought my dog in for $300 worth of
> blood tests; everything came out beautifully. Unfortunately I don't
> think it was the "full panel" you all recommend... even though I
> specified it. grr. He'll have to wait another few months for me to
> cough up the dough... (he is also approaching 11 yrs).
>

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Send more trespassers, the last ones were delicious

Messages in this topic (90)
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9a. Goat Meat Crisis resolved!
Posted by: "Mary Tinder" mtinder@tinderco.com mmmaryt
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:47 pm ((PST))

Chris, Jen and all, thanks for not making me feel really silly about
this. The neglected goat shoulder, "marinating" untouched on the
ground since Monday, was Rumble's prize when he greeted me this
evening. Carrying it around like he caught it himself,
he waited until I got home to demolish about half of it. Gratifying
and still fascinating to watch 'em chomp it down. The little
Mary T
with Rumble Dane, Boda and Lily

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10a. Re: Once or twice a day..feeding
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:58 pm ((PST))

I am sure that work well for the dogs but I need a schedule.....brain
getting older, needs routine.:-)

Sai

Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:55 pm (PST)
Change it up. Keep them guessing. Sometimes i feed at noon, sometimes at
supper, sometimes later. sometimes early. No set time.

Messages in this topic (4)
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11a. Re: New & I did it!
Posted by: "marge" marge_moriarty17551@yahoo.com marge_moriarty17551
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:58 pm ((PST))

Thanks for the encouragement! It is a bit unnerving at first!

First day and unnerved:
It is good to read about your success in switching to raw feeding. I am
also new to the group, had researched this for a while though. I agree
it is extremely unnerving! I finally took the plunge today and fed my
two mini poodles (ages 8 and 10) a chicken back. I only split one
between the two. Now I am terrified at what will happen. I am worried
I should have removed the skin..that they will get sick, etc. But boy
did they love it. Their ideal weight is 17# and I am horrible with
math, so I am still playing around with how much to feed them! I hope
they can tolerate the change as I am hopeful about the positive health
benefits. I anxious as anything and they are sleeping comfortably
after their big treat.

Marge

Messages in this topic (8)
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11b. Re: New & I did it!
Posted by: "Lauren Funaiole" LFUNAIOL@SIMIVALLEY.ORG lfunaiol
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:28 pm ((PST))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER TO TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.

Hi Marge,

I would feed each of them about 8 ounces a day and adjust the quantity as needed from there. Don't be terrified, they will be fine! I have switched many dogs to raw, and have never had any serious issues with it. They might have some soft poo for a while. If so, you can remove the skin from the chicken until they adjust.

Congratulations on the switch,

Lauren Funaiole

>>> "marge" marge_moriarty17551@yahoo.com> 12/13/2007 3:49 PM >>

I finally took the plunge today and fed my
two mini poodles (ages 8 and 10) a chicken back. I only split one
between the two. Now I am terrified at what will happen. I am worried
I should have removed the skin..that they will get sick, etc. But boy
did they love it. Their ideal weight is 17# and I am horrible with
math, so I am still playing around with how much to feed them! Recent Activity
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Messages in this topic (8)
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11c. Re: New & I did it!
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:18 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "marge" <marge_moriarty17551@...>
wrote:
> I should have removed the skin..that they will get sick, etc. But boy
> did they love it.

Hi Marge,
Most dogs don't need the skin removed from the chicken for a loose
stool free start. I think you did the best thing by presenting the
back as is. Backs are not real meaty, so i would think that removing
the skin would actually have made the meal too bony. If your dogs do
get loose stools, please try to remember that they are not sick.
Loose stools are an inconvenience and messy and a pain in the clean-up
and sometimes make the dog sad if its person gets all bent out of
shape, but loose stools are not diarrhea and are not a an indication
of sickness.

> Their ideal weight is 17# and I am horrible with
> math, so I am still playing around with how much to feed them!

The exact math of 2% of 17lbs is 5.44 ounces per day. So, i would
start at about 5-6 ounces per day because one of the things that can
possibly cause loose stools is too much food. You can adjust the
amount to suit your dogs as you go along. HTH, KathyM

Messages in this topic (8)
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12a. Boo's $2500 surgery for stones
Posted by: "Jai" jredwing@windstream.net onesupercat
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:28 pm ((PST))

Hi,
My Dal Boo (1 of 4), had surgery to his bladder Thanksgiving eve. Huge hole
in it, and some small stones, abdomen was filled with 3 liters of urine and
blood. He survived, with a lot of pain. The results are back for the
stone, it is Urate stones. The kind most Dals get. The vet from the
emergency clinic where his surgery was, said that he needs a test to see if
he has any liver disease, or a shunt. She said he needs to take
Allopurniel. Also, needs exremely low protien, calcium, phosphorus, and
sodium. Her suggestion was Science Diet UD. She knows that I feed raw, and
also I am not interested in that food. So what do I do?

My question to you all is, does anyone have a Dal that has had this problem,
and just what did you do about feeding it, and did you give it this
medication? The vet said the raw diet is out. They have eaten nothing but
raw since Feb. 2007.

This is really scary, it has been 3 weeks since his surgery, and I wonder if
I am getting him another stone by still feeding raw, or any of the other 3
either? I just got the news from the vet this afternoon. No way can I
afford any more of these surgerys, actually not the first one either.
Thank you for any help you can give us.
Jai...>^.^<...

Messages in this topic (4)
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12b. Re: Boo's $2500 surgery for stones
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:01 pm ((PST))

Jai,

The idea that protein is detrimental to a stone forming dog is nonsense!
You can't do any better than the high quality, high moisture protein found
in a raw diet. It is the purines that present the problem and they can
easily be controlled when feeding raw.

Here are a couple of messages from past discussions....
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/118748
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141451

And a link regarding the fallacy of reducing protein.....
http://www.thedca.org/fallacy.html

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Jai" <jredwing@windstream.net>

She said he needs to take
> Allopurniel. Also, needs exremely low protien, calcium, phosphorus, and
> sodium. Her suggestion was Science Diet UD. She knows that I feed raw,
and
> also I am not interested in that food. So what do I do?

Messages in this topic (4)
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12c. Re: Boo's $2500 surgery for stones
Posted by: "Jai" jredwing@windstream.net onesupercat
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:18 pm ((PST))

Sandee,
Boo was extremely dehydrated when I got him to the vet emergency clinic.
His lips and tongue were a deep blood red. She said that was because he had
so little water in his veins that the heart was having trouble pumping this
thick blood thru his veins. His heart was beating 205 beats a minute. I
forget what his blood pressure was. He had 3 liters of IV, and did not pee
a drop. He absorbed it all.
How does one make sure they are drinking? They have several water bowls of
fresh water to choose from every day.

Thank you for your fine answer, I really need to dig into all this. Thank
you for posting the older messages, I appreciate it.
Jai...>^.^<...

Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Boo's $2500 surgery for stones

> Jai,
>
> The idea that protein is detrimental to a stone forming dog is nonsense!

Messages in this topic (4)
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12d. Re: Boo's $2500 surgery for stones
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:30 pm ((PST))

Jai,

Gosh, sounds awful. Glad he survived this and is doing ok now!

It is my understanding that the stones form when the urine is concentrated
which happens when a dog is dehydrated. A raw diet is high in moisture so
dogs generally drink less...not sure how to make them drink more. I wonder
if chicken broth would help?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Jai" <jredwing@windstream.net>
> Boo was extremely dehydrated when I got him to the vet emergency clinic.
> His lips and tongue were a deep blood red. She said that was because he
had
> so little water in his veins that the heart was having trouble pumping
this
> thick blood thru his veins. His heart was beating 205 beats a minute. I
> forget what his blood pressure was. He had 3 liters of IV, and did not
pee
> a drop. He absorbed it all.
> How does one make sure they are drinking? They have several water bowls
of
> fresh water to choose from every day.
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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Feed Pets Raw Food

Thursday, December 13, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12374

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