[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12366

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: not working yet - OT -- Sorry!
From: ginny wilken
1b. Re: not working yet - OT -- Sorry!
From: sheila

2a. Re: 1st raw meal
From: ginny wilken
2b. Re: 1st raw meal
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
2c. Re: 1st raw meal
From: Greta Hill

3a. A Little Off Topic, but so cute...
From: Shelly
3b. Re: A Little Off Topic, but so cute...
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

4a. A question about stool
From: bettathang
4b. Re: A question about stool
From: Yasuko herron
4c. Re: A question about stool
From: carnesbill

5a. Re: Vomiting and shapeless poop
From: Yasuko herron

6a. Re: Agression
From: Yasuko herron

7a. What to do with pork shoulder
From: johnsonkp200
7b. Re: What to do with pork shoulder
From: sltahoek9s

8a. Re: Eastern WA - RAW Feeders
From: macluerssen

9a. Re: Fiber Question
From: Kevin Brown

10a. Re: red meat bird?? (Re: goose)
From: Yasuko herron

11a. cresteds on raw?
From: watertestersocal
11b. Re: cresteds on raw?
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
11c. Re: cresteds on raw?
From: Cathy

12. For Carers of Raw Fed Cats
From: Michelle Morgan

13a. Anyone near Portland Oregon?
From: faithewing
13b. Re: Anyone near Portland Oregon?
From: Giselle

14a. Re: Hogmaw - the 'other' white meat?
From: Morledzep@aol.com

15. Undigested chicken bones
From: i_calado

Messages
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1a. Re: not working yet - OT -- Sorry!
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:00 pm ((PST))

On Dec 11, 2007, at 4:38 PM, marblekallie wrote:

> Hi:
>
> Yes, I know this should be in Raw Chat,

And I wish it were, because then I'd be able to say:

> ..... then put in
> something called Otopet Terapia (Italian product) which was both an
> anti-fungal and antibiotic for the ear. He did it two days in a row
> and the ear was completely cleared up. This was in late June and
> the ear is still clear. All the soreness and redness went away
> along with the infection.

that this is huge, bigtime, suppression, and as long as you know
that, Philippa, I guess you made your choice. This stuff is the same
as Otomax, which among its suppressive qualities also has been
associated with later deafness. I think this is one factor in Tomo's
having gone deaf; he got a lot of it in earl;y years. Awful stuff;
awful.

Ear problems are not food-related, and will only crop up if poor food
or other stress is working with a dog's individual predilections to
cause them. They are always systemic in nature, and cannot be
successfully addressed on a local level. Somewhere, somehow, you'll
see disease again.

Begging your pardon, Mods, but I couldn't let this go by. I'll expect
my forty lashes.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (11)
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1b. Re: not working yet - OT -- Sorry!
Posted by: "sheila" schatzee@comporium.net osborne_sheila
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:33 am ((PST))

can you give me the link to raw chat? sheila
----- Original Message -----
From: ginny wilken
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: [rawfeeding] Re: not working yet - OT -- Sorry!

On Dec 11, 2007, at 4:38 PM, marblekallie wrote:

> Hi:
>
> Yes, I know this should be in Raw Chat,

And I wish it were, because then I'd be able to say:

> ..... then put in
> something called Otopet Terapia (Italian product) which was both an
> anti-fungal and antibiotic for the ear. He did it two days in a row
> and the ear was completely cleared up. This was in late June and
> the ear is still clear. All the soreness and redness went away
> along with the infection.

that this is huge, bigtime, suppression, and as long as you know
that, Philippa, I guess you made your choice. This stuff is the same
as Otomax, which among its suppressive qualities also has been
associated with later deafness. I think this is one factor in Tomo's
having gone deaf; he got a lot of it in earl;y years. Awful stuff;
awful.

Ear problems are not food-related, and will only crop up if poor food
or other stress is working with a dog's individual predilections to
cause them. They are always systemic in nature, and cannot be
successfully addressed on a local level. Somewhere, somehow, you'll
see disease again.

Begging your pardon, Mods, but I couldn't let this go by. I'll expect
my forty lashes.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (11)
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2a. Re: 1st raw meal
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:05 pm ((PST))

On Dec 11, 2007, at 5:06 PM, hoelpl wrote:

>
> We will be traveling to mom's for the holidays, and she (and
> especially brother) are not ok with Raw. Is it ok to switch her to
> kibble while we are there and back to raw when we come home? We go up
> about once a month for a weekend, so this switch would happen
> repeatedly. I know it is not ideal, but is it ok?
>
> Holly

Can you not feed her outside? In the car? Somewhere further away? I
assume they'll let you put raw meat in the fridge next to theirs, no?

I wouldn't let their ideas screw up my dog's diet. It's not your
brother's house, is it?

ginny and Tomo, who always go for ideal

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: 1st raw meal
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:21 pm ((PST))

Holly,
Nope, not ok, not in my book, so feed her away from the family and tell them it's your dog, and not their business. IMHO. My family didn't like it either, but I don't lecture my sister on her daughter, and she can't me on my dogs. We made a deal:)
I don't tell them what to do, they can't tell me what to do, and my dogs look way healthier than my niece, so there! Mine aren't over weight, or have allergies, or skin problems, or ear tubes or bad breath, or dental issues, and so on....
I'm not trying to be harsh, family can be a pain. Take your own raw food with you, make it simple, even take ground food, if you want for simplicity and ease of cleanup and faster eating so your family will have less to complain about. For a couple of days that would be fine.
My family has come around, they see how nice my Giant Great Dane puppies are and how they look so good and healthy, so they are convinced I'm not killing them:)
Try it, you might be surprised.
Jeni

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2c. Re: 1st raw meal
Posted by: "Greta Hill" GretaHill@aol.com sunstate23
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:23 pm ((PST))

We will be traveling to mom's for the holidays, and she (and
especially brother) are not ok with Raw.>>

I wouldn't feed kibble. Take easy-peasy meals that your dog will eat
quickly. Be sure it's something she's already eaten and does well with.
Ground meat fed occasionally is fine, especially if it will keep the
peace. Take an ice chest to keep the food in, have it in meal sized
portions in plastic bags ready to feed. Feed away from your family,
but try and make them feel guilty about all the trouble you have to go
through because of them :P

Greta

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. A Little Off Topic, but so cute...
Posted by: "Shelly" StuartLittle@comcast.net stuartjeanlittle
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:21 pm ((PST))

It's about 45 degrees here in Maryland (almost 10:00 PM) and my dogs are going
nuts! They are having so much fun, running around the yard chasing each
other with unbelievable energy and speed, just acting like they feel
exhilarated! I don't know if it's the weather or what but it's soooo cute to
watch. I didn't know who else to tell that would appreciate it so I'm
telling all you dog lovers out there! It's just gotta be their raw diet that
makes them feel so good!

Shelly

Messages in this topic (11)
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3b. Re: A Little Off Topic, but so cute...
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:23 pm ((PST))

Well of course it's the raw diet, and that is so not off topic:)
Jeni

I love it when they have fun, it makes it all worth it.

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Messages in this topic (11)
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4a. A question about stool
Posted by: "bettathang" bettathang@yahoo.com bettathang
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:41 pm ((PST))

Hello All-
Sorry about the continued questions, just want to make sure my dogs
are doing ok. It is day 3 of complete raw feeding for my boys and we
have been monitoring their stool. We have had no loose stools so far
(YAY!!), but today we noticed that the lab's stool was very, very
small. I know that the BMs can be smaller once off kibble, but this
BM was maybe 1/4 of his pre-raw size. I think I'm just overreacting,
but I'd just like some assurance from people that have been through
the transition. Is this normal?
Thank you,
Heidi
(George & Gaston)

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: A question about stool
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:56 pm ((PST))

> Is this normal?

Yes. My 34lb Corgi poo once aday if she does,occasionary but rarecase,she goes twice in a day,and poo is smaller than one on kibble time.

Shewent to poo twice for sure on kibble and probably each poo was about 3 times more of volume compare to now.

In average,my dog poo about thumb size poo,or tiny little longer than that but still smaller than before.

Don't worry. you are fine. Don't freak out when your dog did not do poo one time.

My dog sometimes has a day with no poo.That is ok.

yassy

---------------------------------
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4c. Re: A question about stool
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:56 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "bettathang" <bettathang@...> wrote:
>
> I think I'm just overreacting,
> but I'd just like some assurance from people that have been through
> the transition. Is this normal?

You are overreacting. Calm down. Relax. Stop worrying so much.
What you describe is entirely normal. Have a little confidence in
your decision making ability and stop looking for problems.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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5a. Re: Vomiting and shapeless poop
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:44 pm ((PST))

> It may be that the dog will NEVER like herring but sometimes a new food can be preceived as unappealing when first introduced but welcomed on second try. Perhaps some dogs think "oh ick, this tastes weird" the first time, but later they think "oh, yeah, I had this
before, it's okay". Sometimes dogs just need more experience.

Hi,chris. I think it is true that you talk about.

It was not so with rabbit that I tried feeding on first round of feeding(ended up giving to other feeder),but for Elk and Frog leg ,it really look like she was fine from second try.

when i first tried feeding elk, she sniffed and bite,spit out and stare at me,but looked like she ate it because she was hungry. Second time on,she ate it ok,and now she gets happy and get wet nose on Elk meal. Maybe dog too needs to get used to flavor for new item.

Intersting thing was,even her first try,she liked Elk heart and tongue and no hesitation,mostly hesitated on Elk hunk and Elk Rib.Wondering if those taste and smell very different.

As for frog leg,she still is a little hesitant with one leg of frog but,she could eat it all raw and without searing this time although I needed to entice her by cracking the bone to show and smell marrow inside the frog leg.,so,even though she was not so enthustic but still,it isa bit improvement for her.

I am happy about it.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (11)
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6a. Re: Agression
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:23 pm ((PST))

> its pretty diffucult to find an item that is more valuable to the dog than a bone.

When I trade a big food,I use chicken feet. I do not go to meat sheiseating,but I just call her and show the chicken feet and,she leave the meat andtrotting to me come get it and,I go up to meat andtake it away.

If no trading required meals in a week,I feed chicken feet once a week along with fish (since fish bone is not enough bone for her and I need more bone in fish meal).So,for her,chicken feet is very very very very valuable andshe willingly give up easily even her fav goat meat.

Chicken feet is relatively cheap and cost effective.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (8)
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7a. What to do with pork shoulder
Posted by: "johnsonkp200" sunfiretervs@comcast.net johnsonkp200
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:23 pm ((PST))

Okay long timers...
Newbie here whose dog is eating chicken parts, beef parts and pork
parts, plus gizzards, hearts,livers, eggs and salmon.
I still am having trouble knowing how to cut up and dole out the
portions.

Today I bought a 9 pound pork picnic shoulder, bone in. I have a 50 lb
dog. Now, how do I serve it? I feed him 2x a day. Many say just give it
to the dog whole. Isn't 9 pounds a bit too much for a meal? I don't
relish the idea of putting it back in the fridge over and over - after
all, how do I know how long to leave it with him, and how would I
monitor how much he ate at a sitting? Besides, it's not free and I will
take no pleasure in him gorging himself and pooping it right out in a
loose stool. Not my idea of a good investment, if you know what I mean.
I await your economical advice. Thanks.

Karen

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7b. Re: What to do with pork shoulder
Posted by: "sltahoek9s" crazy4k9@aol.com sltahoek9s
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:11 am ((PST))

Karen,
I'm certainly not a long timer, actually only a little over a month in, but I often feed pork
shoulder or picnic roasts to my GSD. He gets about 2 lbs a meal. While I could probably at
this point let him exhaust himself on a gorge meal since he tends to know when he is full, my
lab would ear herself sick. I also don't like to take the food away from them, but would
rather portion and let them eat and finish in peace. They would let me take the food without
issue, but I can hardly stand the pleading faces. So for pork shoulder meals I simply cut it to
portion. For your dog, you probably want to feed a little over a pound a meal so that roast
could last you about a week. Keep in mind you may need to add a little bone here and there
since there probably isn't much bone in the roast. I'm still new, but i'm guessing 6 days
without any bone might be a little much. Hopefully some more experienced feeders can give
you more input but so far this has worked for me.

Tammy C

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Re: Eastern WA - RAW Feeders
Posted by: "macluerssen" macluerssen@yahoo.com macluerssen
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:23 pm ((PST))

Hi Maggie & Crew! I've lived in Spokane for the 2+ years that we've
been feeding our PWD and PoundPuppy Mix RAW. We did just get a deer
carcass (with TONS of meat left on it) from a hunter friend for free,
and about 60 pounds of beef liver, heart, etc. from another friend who
raises beef cattle. The rest of it we just buy on sale. We've got a
freezer that can easily hold a month's worth of food for the two dogs,
so when something is on sale we stock up! It's a very rare occasion
that we have to spend over $1/lb. for our dogs' food. We do
occasionally go to Williams Seafood in Spokane Valley to get fish
scraps for $1.29/lb or so.

Good luck, and keep in touch when you get to the area!

Tina & Francis with Cabernet & Cannon :)

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9a. Re: Fiber Question
Posted by: "Kevin Brown" jerseykev@aol.com noblarneyzone
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:23 pm ((PST))

Thank you

Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. Re: red meat bird?? (Re: goose)
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:23 pm ((PST))

>I see that the goose meat is red as opposed to chicken and turkey,

What other birds are counted as red meat??

yassy

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11a. cresteds on raw?
Posted by: "watertestersocal" watertestersocal@yahoo.com watertestersocal
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:23 pm ((PST))

I am very new at this and am having a little trouble finding info so I
figured it would be best to ask. I have two chinese cresteds and I want
to make sure they have the very best and only wish I found out about
raw feeding a long time ago. My concern for my hairless crested is his
teeth, they tend to come out fairly easy and often are lost at a young
age so I am curious if there is any breed spicific style of feeding
raw? Also my cresteds are 10 and 11 pounds and Im sure this is a noob
question Im just concerned about big bones and little dogs ( I guess Im
just looking for a little asurance) Any tips and advice will be greatly
apreciated.

Sincerely
Justin

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11b. Re: cresteds on raw?
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:01 am ((PST))

Justin,
I have a small Pomchi, she does well with large bones, doesn't do more than she can, but then again, she doesn't have the teeth problems your little ones have.
I might stick to things that have more tender bones, like bone already in meat, like game hens, or small birds, quails and things like that, they can still get the benefits of the bones, but maybe not have to worry about loosing the teeth.
If that is a problem, you might go to grinding your meat for them, bones and all, so that they get the bones but don't have to worry about the teeth problems. A good meat grinder only costs about $80-125 depending on where you get it at, and it will grind up all birds of prey, up to turkeys, if you cut them up small enough to fit in the hole;)
Someone on here will probably chime in on more breed specific types for you, give it time, it's late, and not everyone is up like me:)
Jeni

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11c. Re: cresteds on raw?
Posted by: "Cathy" batcathy@sbcglobal.net batcathy2002
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:32 am ((PST))

Hi Justin- We have 16 cresteds and are fine on raw. Teeth are an issue in our chosen breed so stay away from hard bones. Mine go through chicken legs no problem....when i feed the thigh I remove the long bone & let them have the back side. (so as not too much) They handle pork neck, ribs and all rabbitt bones..........only my oldest has loose in the front so I have been giving her ground or cut meats.
She has nothing between the canines untill the far back molars so it is hard for her to rip & tear but she does crunch them down. Turkey necks are a good chew if you give them a good wack first....but need xtra meat with them. Good luck with them!
Cathy

C Richmond
Lesmar's CC
Battle Creek, Mi.

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12. For Carers of Raw Fed Cats
Posted by: "Michelle Morgan" enzo@whereismichelle.com enzoinub
Date: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:38 pm ((PST))

I know, I haven't been on the list for ages, swamped with job, but I
just have to post this link for anyone who is rawfeeding their cats.

( http://www.hemmy.net/2007/10/21/extreme-pets-fishing-cat/ )

This is what I'd consider going to great lengths to feed the prey
models :-)

Michelle

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13a. Anyone near Portland Oregon?
Posted by: "faithewing" faithewing@yahoo.com faithewing
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:11 am ((PST))

++++Mod note: pls sign emails +++++++++++

I was wondering if anyone was near Portland, Or that had good
information on where to shop for raw meat.

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13b. Re: Anyone near Portland Oregon?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:30 am ((PST))

Hi, Faith!
Check out the Lis List;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/139618*

*Post #139618*
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 12, 2007 3:24 AM, faithewing <faithewing@yahoo.com> wrote:

> ++++Mod note: pls sign emails +++++++++++
>
> I was wondering if anyone was near Portland, Or that had good
> information on where to shop for raw meat.
>
>
>

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14a. Re: Hogmaw - the 'other' white meat?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:52 am ((PST))

In a message dated 12/10/2007 5:42:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
alabamdeb2@yahoo.com writes:

Is this considered muscle meat, like chicken gizzard, or is
it considered organ meat?

Deb,

if you found that at a grocery store it's no longer raw. it's been cleaned
and scalded (partially boiled) for your protection.

they do however make interesting chew toys for puppies..

Catherine R.

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

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15. Undigested chicken bones
Posted by: "i_calado" i_calado@yahoo.com.br i_calado
Date: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:53 am ((PST))

I'm very happy with the general results of feeding raw my white
shepherd and my miniature pinscher for three weeks. But lately I've
seen several pieces of undigested chicken bones in the shepherd's
poo. And they look very sharp and splintery! Should I get worried?
Ivanir Calado, Brazil.

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