[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12362

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Leg quarters question
From: Chia
1b. Re: Leg quarters question
From: A.
1c. Re: Leg quarters question
From: Sandee Lee
1d. Re: Leg quarters question
From: carnesbill
1e. Re: Leg quarters question
From: costrowski75
1f. Re: Leg quarters question
From: A.

2a. Re: Frozen fish uncleaned
From: sfed57
2b. Re: Frozen fish uncleaned
From: Morledzep@aol.com

3a. Re: New raw feeder with concerns about cleanliness
From: rainy_dogpark
3b. Re: New raw feeder with concerns about cleanliness
From: Pauline
3c. Re: New raw feeder with concerns about cleanliness
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: Recovering from Parvo and feeding
From: costrowski75
4b. Re: Recovering from Parvo and feeding
From: jadebonza

5a. Feeding once a day?
From: A.
5b. Re: Feeding once a day?
From: skittles888@aol.com

6a. Question on RMB
From: jaygaughan
6b. Re: Question on RMB
From: mozookpr
6c. Re: Question on RMB
From: carnesbill

7a. Re: Rawfeeding puppy response
From: Laura Atkinson

8a. Good news for your wallet!
From: mozookpr

9a. Re: Squirrels and Rabbits
From: ixnay25
9b. Re: Squirrels and Rabbits
From: carnesbill

10a. Re: grinding
From: Sandee Lee

11a. Re: Allergies and Raw
From: Laura Opuszenski

12a. Re: diarhea
From: Judy McCammon

Messages
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1a. Re: Leg quarters question
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:29 am ((PST))

I have just started my English Mastiffs on bones. They have been
eating raw for awhile and they are doing well on it.

My problem is that I bought chicken wings first because I couldn't
find any necks (which I heard was easy to start them on). My girls are
about 120 and 160 pounds so they just swallowed them whole which
scared me :) I have given them leg quarters the last few days. They
are actually chewing them up but not tearing them apart. So basically
they crunch them up and swallow the whole thing. They are having no
problems swallowing so far but it makes me nervous such a big piece
going down at once.

#### if my 50 lb dog can eat WHOLE chickens, I think your dogs can handle
whole chickens just fine! Don't underestimate them, this is what they are
designed to do. Feeding with bits and pieces to dogs new to raw is not
always an appropriate way to teach them how they are supposed to eat.

No manipulation by you, no problems for them!

Chia & Ricco

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Messages in this topic (10)
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1b. Re: Leg quarters question
Posted by: "A." ols@charter.net cesare.1920
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:57 am ((PST))

Wow! Thanks for the quick replies :)

>>>What raw were they eating before eating bones? Just meat? How
long?

Basically whatever we were having for dinner. I was giving kibble
plus raw chicken breast, porkchops, hamburger, eggs, & sometimes
canned mackeral about 3-4 times a week. They also like fruit as
snacks esp. apples. I have been doing that for our one year old
since she was about 3 months old. Our oldest we adopted this summer
so she hasn't been eating anything raw for long.

I ran across a book by Dr. Pitcairn and decided to just try it out.
Our oldest adopted girl has some health issues (on meds for seizures
although we are weaning her off them with a vets supervision. Also
mild hip dysplasia, & a waxy smelly coat). Our youngest we just want
to keep her healthy.

I did the Pitcairns recipes for about 1 1/2 months and am just now
learning more about raw meaty bones. I have just this week started
adding them. I am still feeding some cooked grains/veggies while I
introduce bones. I guess I haven't cut them out and gone 100% meat
and bones out of fear. This week I have only added 1 leg quarter per
meal to make sure they won't choke and die (LOL I know that is the
biggest misconception but I just can't help fearing it still!*blush*)
I about died watching them inhale chicken wings.

So I need to get whole or half chickens. Anything I need to be
worried about or watch for while they eat it for the first time?

Is a whole or half chicken enough for their entire meal for the day?

I think I read something like 60% raw meaty bones, 35% muscle meat,
and 5% organ meat. Would I just try to average this out over a week
or go for this ratio daily? (or use a different ratio)

~Amanda

Messages in this topic (10)
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1c. Re: Leg quarters question
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:28 pm ((PST))

Amanda,

I would suggest having a full 6 panel thyroid test run on your older
girl....

List of hypothyroid symptoms....
http://siriusdog.com/articles/hypothyroid-dog-signs.htm

Forms, instructions, prices, etc....
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/DrDoddsInstructions.htm

And get rid of those grains! :)) You will more than likely see improvement
in all aspects when they are eliminated.

The appropriate ratios are approximately 80% meat, 10% edible bone and 10%
organs, half being liver. Start out with 2-3% of their ideal weight per
day.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "A." <ols@charter.net>

I ran across a book by Dr. Pitcairn and decided to just try it out.
Our oldest adopted girl has some health issues (on meds for seizures
although we are weaning her off them with a vets supervision. Also
mild hip dysplasia, & a waxy smelly coat). Our youngest we just want
to keep her healthy.

Messages in this topic (10)
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1d. Re: Leg quarters question
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:33 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "A." <ols@...> wrote:
>
> My problem is that I bought chicken wings first because I couldn't
> find any necks (which I heard was easy to start them on).

I wouldn't feed chicken wings or necks for the simple reason they
CAN swallow them whole. The don't get the dental benefits of
chewing bones that way. It doesn't hurt dogs that size to swallow
them whole, just no dental benefits.

> I have given them leg quarters the last few days. They
> are actually chewing them up but not tearing them apart.
> So basically
> they crunch them up and swallow the whole thing.

Cool, my Great Danes eat about the same way.

>They are having no
> problems swallowing so far but it makes me nervous such a
> big piece going down at once.

Thats because you are thinking of swallowing in human terms instead
of dog terms. Humans chew their food into a mush before they
swallow. Dogs only crunch it small enough to fit down their throat
and some amazingly large pieces can fit down their throat just
fine. Occasionally they will bring something too large back up and
crunch it a little more then re-swallow it. Dogs have the ability
to swallow in both directions so if they swallow something too
large, they just bring it back for more crunching. It's no big deal.

> Is this ok? Should I be separating the leg from the other part?
>

Yes, it's ok and no you don't need to seperate anything. I feed
chicken quarters 2 or 3 times a week for 5 years with not one single
problem. I also feed chicken backs every day and there has never
been a problem with them either.

Just remember that they are dogs. They don't chew or swallow like
we do. Their teeth are made different than ours. Their jaws are
made different than ours.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (10)
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1e. Re: Leg quarters question
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:11 pm ((PST))

"A." <ols@...> wrote:
> I ran across a book by Dr. Pitcairn and decided to just try it out.
*****
Pitcairn is not a source I would recommend for anyone wanting to feed
a healthy raw diet that is also species appropriate and easy. Some
day you may find his recipes interesting but they'll never be
appropriate. Put the book down and step away from the shelf.

> Our oldest adopted girl has some health issues (on meds for
seizures
> although we are weaning her off them with a vets supervision. Also
> mild hip dysplasia, & a waxy smelly coat). Our youngest we just
want
> to keep her healthy.
*****
A species appropriate diet (lots of meat, some bone, some organ, no
carbs) has been known to help many seizure dogs. I hope your vet is
wise enough to factor in raw species appropriate food as you work to
reduce the meds. If you vet is not, you must rise to the occasion.

The dysplasia may not be affected by diet except in that in all
regards health is improved when diet is. The coat issues will almost
certainly clear up with a better diet. But since the issues you
mention can also relate to thyroid problems, make sure you and your
vet correctly check for that as well.

> I did the Pitcairns recipes for about 1 1/2 months and am just now
> learning more about raw meaty bones. I have just this week started
> adding them. I am still feeding some cooked grains/veggies while I
> introduce bones.
*****
No, no more grains. They are completely counterproductive and if you
have anything to fear it would be the damage that grains can do to
you dog's health. Species appropriate (meat, bones, organs) means
that which is most effective for the species. Dogs do not have the
physiology to process raw grains and cooking grains does not (repeat
NOT) change their worthiness.

Pre-meditated vegetables as well are not part of a species
appropriate diet. Pitcairn is only peripherially interested in what
the species would eat in optimal conditions. What we strive for here
is a menu that optimally addresses the needs of our domestic wolves.

While vegetation (grains, fruit, veggies) may appear to deliver the
goods, it is not a competent delivery system. If vegetation had the
right stuff, Pitcairn would have no need for his "Healthy Powder".
This concoction compensates not for meat, edible bones and organs but
the carbohydrates he uses. Feed the appropriate stuff, ditch the
suspenders. Heck, when you have tailor-made menus as with tailor-
made trousers you need neither belt NOR suspenders.

This week I have only added 1 leg quarter per
> meal to make sure they won't choke and die (LOL I know that is the
> biggest misconception but I just can't help fearing it still!
*****
In absolute truth they are more likely to die from commercial kibble
than they are from a nicely fed species appropriate diet. And as
long as you keep grains and significant vegetation in their menus you
cannot hope to move on towards better health. You cannot hope to
duplicate through cooked food the nutrition that is provided by raw
food.

> So I need to get whole or half chickens. Anything I need to be
> worried about or watch for while they eat it for the first time?
*****
Probably the biggest issue would be loose stools, and for those
without poop experience (what a revolting competency!) loose stools
tend to cause paroxysms of panic. It may well be that a whole bird
would do you more damage than it ever could your dogs! Perhaps half
a bird in the AM, half a bird as the second meal?

To make the meals even a bit more bony but still big, you might trim
off much of the breast meat to feed as a third meal. Hard to know.
You have to fiddle to get it right and unfortunately for beginners
fiddling often produces loose stools which are considered
catastrophic failure but are not.

> Is a whole or half chicken enough for their entire meal for the
day?
*****
Depends on the size of the bird but by and large a whole chicken
should do it regardless of how you hack it up for the dog. You can
skip the neck, liver, gizzard and heart though. Freeze them and feed
them later. Months later, if necessary.

> I think I read something like 60% raw meaty bones, 35% muscle
meat,
> and 5% organ meat.
*****
This is a lot of artifical hooey. In a prey animal, there are no
such things as raw meaty bones. There is meat (which includes skin,
fat, connective tissue and flesh), there is bone, there are organs.
The phrase "raw meaty bone" does not reveal the amount of meat or
bone or the edibility of the bone. There is only meat, bone,
organs.

Because of that, and if counting the beans makes you feel better, you
should be thinking along the lines of 10%-15% edible bone, 5% liver,
and 80%-85% meat. The meat can be on the bone, the meat can be off
the bone. The issue is not how much meat is attached to the bone,
but how much is in the entire diet. Answer: A LOT!

Would I just try to average this out over a week
> or go for this ratio daily? (or use a different ratio)
*****
Over a week. Two. A month. Six months. As one of my favorite
songs says, the road goes on forever and the party never ends.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (10)
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1f. Re: Leg quarters question
Posted by: "A." ols@charter.net cesare.1920
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:51 pm ((PST))

> Over a week. Two. A month. Six months. As one of my favorite
> songs says, the road goes on forever and the party never ends.
> Chris O

:) Thank you for all the info posted. It has helped a lot, and also
gave me a few laughs.

~Amanda

Messages in this topic (10)
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2a. Re: Frozen fish uncleaned
Posted by: "sfed57" sfed57@yahoo.ca sfed57
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:58 am ((PST))

The one other thing I would consider is how the fish were caught. If
it was with line and hook, you might want to cut open the belly to make
sure there are no hooks in the stomach or throat.
Shawna

Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: Frozen fish uncleaned
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:09 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 12/10/2007 7:44:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jerry@repsolutions.info writes:

What do I do with this??? Thaw it and feed as is?

Jerry,

species doesn't matter, this is your answer.

if some of it is catfish you might wanna cut off the barbs.. but there is
nothing else that needs to be done. and i'm not even sure the barbs need to be
clipped.. i think that's just a comfort thing for some folks.

i personally don't catch or eat catfish.. but i do feed it to my catfish..
lol.

Catherine R.

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

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Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: New raw feeder with concerns about cleanliness
Posted by: "rainy_dogpark" rainy_dogpark@myway.com rainy_dogpark
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:58 am ((PST))

My dogs sleep in bed with me at night, so I do wipe them with a warm
cloth with some diluted buddy wash or dr. bonner.

Bj

Messages in this topic (15)
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3b. Re: New raw feeder with concerns about cleanliness
Posted by: "Pauline" pblondeau46@gmail.com pblondeau46
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:33 pm ((PST))

-I use baby wipes after to wipe their mouths and paws. Does the trick
for me and in my mind I feel better about it. LOL

Pauline

> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "bettathang" bettathang@ wrote:
>
> > They're both really good about eating in the kitchen, but their
> > front feet get the meaty juices on them, which they proceed to drag
> > around the house and onto the furniture. Any helpful hints?
>

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Messages in this topic (15)
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3c. Re: New raw feeder with concerns about cleanliness
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:18 pm ((PST))

"Pauline" <pblondeau46@...> wrote:>
> -I use baby wipes after to wipe their mouths and paws. Does the trick
> for me and in my mind I feel better about it. LOL
*****
When you were feeding kibble, did you wipe their mouths? Did you wipe
their bottoms when you were feeding kibble? Did you wipe their paws at
night when you fed kibble?

There is nothing changed about your dogs' hygiene now that you are
feeding raw meats. Whatever yukky habits they had, they still have.
Fact is, their mouths--now rid of kibble--are generally cleaner than
they ever were. Whatever cleaning up you did pre-raw is plenty good
enough now.

You're being silly.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (15)
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4a. Re: Recovering from Parvo and feeding
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:12 pm ((PST))

"Donna" <donnad2998@...> wrote:>
> I have a new puppy that is recovering very well from parvo. The
> foster mom gave me canned ID and puppy food. I feed my other 2 RAW.
> Do I do this canned of ID or just start her right on RAW.
*****
ID is a bland foodlike substance. Raw food can be bland real food.
All you have to do is choose the right bland real food. In these
situations I go with Bland Boring Boneless and Beige.

Boneless skinless chicken breast is a good choice. Boneless skinless
turkey breast may also be a good choice. And boneless skinless white
fish is also a possibility. I have used all three with satisfactory
results. Don't even think bones or fat or red meat til you and the pup
are comfortable with BBBB. There is time, don't rush. Feed her small
amounts in multiple meals. Four is good; if you do more, do it. Even
with a perfectly healthy pupster, too much food at one time is not wise.

Will the RAW harder up
> the loose stools as well?
*****
Eventually. You might try some slippery elm powder sprinkled on the
meat (if you have to chop finely for a while do so) to soothe her
insides. She might also need a probiotic if shes been on antibiotics,
perhaps even a digestive enzyme. I am not fluent in either product
though so let's hope others reply.

When it looks like she's processing boneless meat okay you can start
with bones. I think though that a leg bone is too much structure. How
about rib-in breast? Cornish game hen? Quail?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: Recovering from Parvo and feeding
Posted by: "jadebonza" crystallocust@usa.net jadebonza
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:58 pm ((PST))

Our puppy went through parvo as well. When the vet wanted to send her
home, she had to eat first. She has always been on raw and refused to
eat the ID that they vet offered her (or threw it up soon after). When
we saw what they were trying to get her to eat, we brought her home.
We started by stripping the meat off the bone and progressed within a
day to eating her full compliment of food (chicien legs and thighs).
Her poops went back to normal and everything has been fine since
(although she is a little chow hound).

I would suggest that the puppy get onto or back onto raw as soon as you
can.

Tom
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Donna" <donnad2998@...> wrote:
>
> I have a new puppy that is recovering very well from parvo. The
> foster mom gave me canned ID and puppy food. I feed my other 2 RAW.
> Do I do this canned of ID or just start her right on RAW. She is 3
> months old and is starving all the time after what she went through
it
> doesn't surprise me but it kills me to feed her the food foster mom
> gave me but I never had to deal with parvo. Will the RAW harder up
> the loose stools as well? I know start her on chicken I have a nice
> leg waiting at home for her. She is a beagle.
> Thank you,
> Donna, KC, Shiloh Bailey (new one)
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Feeding once a day?
Posted by: "A." ols@charter.net cesare.1920
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:33 pm ((PST))

When my dogs were on kibble I fed twice a day because I was worried
about bloat. When we switched to cooked meals I stuck with 2x a day
but now that I am switching over to raw with bones we are feeding once
a day. They seem to be doing fine on this schedule and it is so much
easier for me. With kids and a new baby it is easier to supervise
feedings and do the clean up once. They both still like apples and
such, I know that dogs don't eat these in the wild but they really
seem to like them so they will sometimes get a snack in the evening of
fruit.

Any opinions on this? My Mastiffs are 5 years old and a little over a
year old.

~Amanda

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Feeding once a day?
Posted by: "skittles888@aol.com" skittles888@aol.com swayzepetsitting
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:43 pm ((PST))

>They both still like apples and such, I know
>that dogs don't eat these in the wild but they really
>seem to like them so they will sometimes get a
>snack in the evening of fruit.

I eat lots of apples everyday.? My dog really likes them so I usually toss her a couple of pieces as I'm eating.? As long as the fruit doesn't replace any meat that she should be getting, I don't see a problem with it.

Swayze and Bean Dip, Sniff, McGuirk, and Finnigan

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Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Question on RMB
Posted by: "jaygaughan" jaygaughan@yahoo.com jaygaughan
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:33 pm ((PST))

I have a 10 week old Dane who is eating and loving raw. He's about
28lbs now. I'm feeding him chicken backs, necks, and chicken meat in
the morning for his main MRB meal. He's also getting a wide variety
of other meats including green tripe, beef, venison, turkey, and
fish.

I have read a lot on raw feeding but I can't seem to find details
such as exactly what is fed and how much per meal as far as RMB. For
puppies most state 3 to 10 percent of there body weight. Also RMB
main meal is fed in the morning.

I feed my pup 2 meals a day. I'm looking at his first meal-2 chicken
back, 2 necks, and a pound of chicken meat. I removed the bone from
thighs and give him that meat with the backs. I am doing this because
2 backs and necks seems like about 50/50 RMB and I want more like
80/20 for his first meal. Am I on the right track doing this?

Also should I include bone in his second meal? Tonight it will be
green tripe, fish, and turkey meat which I have been de-boning.

Any help is very much appreciated.

Thank you

Jay

Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. Re: Question on RMB
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:23 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jaygaughan" <jaygaughan@...>
wrote:
>
> I have a 10 week old Dane who is eating and loving raw. He's about
> 28lbs now. I'm feeding him chicken backs, necks, and chicken meat
in
> the morning for his main MRB meal.

Hi, Jay.

It sounds like you are making lots of work for yourself. Why feed
backs and necks, and then make up for the meat deficit with *de-
boned* meat? Just give him a leg quarter and let him go to town.
You may find this cheaper, too, not an unimportant consideration with
a growing Dane!

I would feed a puppy that young a bit more frequently, I think. My
Sheltie is approaching 5 months, and eats three times a day. I had
her on two meals, but she had runny poo, and it was suggested I feed
less, more frequently. It seems to be working. Poo aside, I believe
the recommendation for young puppies is three to four meals a day
(and not just for rawfed, either.)

I have read a great deal about raw, too --almost obsessively since I
discovered it -- and the impression I have gotten is that the
meat/bone/organ ratio is not something that must be spot-on at each
meal. I have never heard anything about the morning meal needing to
be the boney one.

That's an enviable variety of foods you are providing, btw! How long
has the puppy been eating raw?

Wendy

Messages in this topic (3)
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6c. Re: Question on RMB
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:37 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jaygaughan" <jaygaughan@...>
wrote:
>
> I have a 10 week old Dane who is eating and loving raw. He's about
> 28lbs now. I'm feeding him chicken backs, necks, and chicken
> meat in the morning for his main MRB meal.

I think you are going to a lot of unnecessary trouble also. Forget
the concept of RMB meal, meaty meals, etc. Forget feeding bony
stuff and supplementing it with meaty stuff at the same meal. Think
meat, bones, and organs. Mostly meat, some bone and some organs.
Thats it. NOthing else to worry about. You don't need to balance
out each meal. Balance is kind of a unatainable mystical goal
anyway.

Feed a variety of animal parts from a variety of animals and
everything will automatically balance out better than you can
conciuosly do it.

> I have read a lot on raw feeding but I can't seem to find details
> such as exactly what is fed and how much per meal as far as RMB.

Forget you ever heard the term RMB. Think animal part. Chicken
backs are animal parts. Chicken quarters are animal parts. Pork
roasts are animal parts. Tripe is an animal part. Other than
feeding animal parts, feed whole animals ... rabbits, chickens, etc.

> For puppies most state 3 to 10 percent of there body weight.

I never worry about percentages, ratios, weights, balances or any of
that stuff. I don't feed numbers. I feed animal parts. Decide how
much to feed him by how he looks. Remember for a Dane pup, you
should be able to see his back 2 or 3 ribs without seeing hip bone
or spine. He should be skinny. If people aren't telling you he is
too thin, he is too fat.

> Also RMB main meal is fed in the morning.

Forget RMB meals. Just say, the main meal is fed in the morning.
Remember a meal does not have to contain bone. You can feed meals
that contain bones and meals that don't. My Danes eat 3 or so
boneless meals a week. When you feed a meal with bone, don't feel
like you have to feed other meat with it to "balance" it. Just
remember it and feed a boneless meal the next time.

> I feed my pup 2 meals a day. I'm looking at his first meal-2
> chicken back, 2 necks, and a pound of chicken meat. I removed
> the bone from thighs and give him that meat with the backs. I
> am doing this because
> 2 backs and necks seems like about 50/50 RMB and I want more like
> 80/20 for his first meal. Am I on the right track doing this?

Nahhhh .... you're working too hard. If you want to feed 2 chicken
backs for a meal, fine. I feed my 2 Danes 2 chicken backs every
morning but thats the whole meal. For the evening meal, they will
get something else, more meaty stuff usually. Don't worry about
balancing each meal. It's not that critical. Balance over time.
Feed a variety of animal parts from a variety of animals and over a
week or a month, proper balance will be attained.

> Tonight it will be
> green tripe, fish, and turkey meat which I have been de-boning.

Don't worry about deboning it. When you go to de-boning animal
parts you are throwing things out of balance. :) :) :)

YOu are putting forth so much effort in this, Jay. Much more than
is necessary. Take an animal part and hand it to the dog. If it's
a small part like a chicken back, you may want to hand him another
part after he finishes the first. Thats all there is to it. No de-
boning, skinning, mashing up, nothing else. Hand the dog an animal
part. Period. SOOOO much less work.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Re: Rawfeeding puppy response
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:56 pm ((PST))

You pretty much won't go wrong with that plan :-)

A couple of potential challenges:

If he gets too much food at any meal, he'll get sloppy stools. The
easy solution to that is to cut back the quantities and add another
meal or large snack during the day or evening.

Some puppies (I finally had one) seem to need to switch a little
slower...less variety as quickly. After they get used to things, then
fling open the freezer and let 'em at it :-)

On Dec 7, 2007 2:47 PM, bunchodogs <bunchodogs@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for helping me with the puppy feeding. He is a Siberian Husky.
> His "brothers and sister" (all Siberians) love their raw food! I'll
> just feed him like I do the others, but with more frequent meals.
>
> Linda
>
--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Forget love...I'd rather fall in chocolate.

Messages in this topic (2)
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8a. Good news for your wallet!
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:58 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "A." <ols@...> wrote:
>
> I have just started my English Mastiffs on bones. They have been
> eating raw for awhile and they are doing well on it.
>
> My problem is that I bought chicken wings first because I couldn't
> find any necks (which I heard was easy to start them on). My girls
are
> about 120 and 160 pounds so they just swallowed them whole which
> scared me :)

That would have scared me, too! Glad you are sticking with it,
though, and not giving up on bones.

Definitely try half or whole chickens. Turkeys and turkey parts can
be found at a good price, too, this time of year. However, even
turkey wings or necks, solo, are too small for a Mastiff. I have a
Pomeranian who has been reluctant to eat bones, and was considering
buying chicken wings to get him started. Then, today, he chomped
down a thigh bone with some meat still on it left from last night's
meal with no problem at all. Now I'm glad I saved my money! Freeze
the chicken wings and cook 'em for your Superbowl party. They are
inappropriate (not to mention too dang expensive -- wings cost more
than split breasts around here) for such large dogs.

Or if you don't eat wings, you can send them to me. I have some cats
who might like them. <g>

The first time your dogs really *crunch* a nice bone, they will love
it, and so will you!

Wendy

Messages in this topic (10)
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9a. Re: Squirrels and Rabbits
Posted by: "ixnay25" natalie_tessier@hotmail.com ixnay25
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:58 pm ((PST))

Do you skin them first?
How many would make a meal? Maybe 2 for a 50 lb dog?
My husband has been shooting them with his BB gun and it's driving me
nuts! I might tolerate it more if my dog could benefit from it :)
Natalie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Strother"
<denisestrother@...> wrote:
>
> I'd feed them gladly. I wish I knew someone here who would make me
> that offer. Freeze them solid for a couple of weeks and see what your
> dogs think of them.
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "eclipseapbts" <eclipseapbts@>
> wrote:
> I got an offer from a hunter, he wants to hunt squirrels and rabbits
> but doesn't want to eat them. He offered them to me. Can I safely
feed
> squirrel? Any specific parts they shouldn't eat? Is there a certain
> period of time I should keep them frozen? Disease risks?
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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9b. Re: Squirrels and Rabbits
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:37 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ixnay25" <natalie_tessier@...>
wrote:
>
BB's can be tooth breakers. Be sure and get them out before feeding.
Bet it takes a bunch of shots with BB's to kill a rabbit. Doesn't
sound very humane to me. A .22 would be faster.

One rabbit should make a complete meal if not more than a meal
depending on the size of the rabbit.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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10a. Re: grinding
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:06 pm ((PST))

Here is some info about ground food...probably the biggest issue is not
cleaning those teeth and gums!

http://rawfed.com/myths/ground.html

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Moon Creek Arabians" <lephillips@rangeweb.net>
>
> I grind everything. Is there a problem with grinding? It fits better in
my freezer and is easier to deal with....
>
> Erika P

Messages in this topic (4)
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11a. Re: Allergies and Raw
Posted by: "Laura Opuszenski" opi1177@yahoo.com opi1177
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:25 pm ((PST))

EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM AND SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.

She is definitely having problems with something because she is constantly itching. She wasn't having any problems vomiting until I gave her the chicken. She threw up 10 minutes after eating it and then for the following 2 days. So I am going to stay away from it for now. I will check out that site. Thanks for the feedback.

Messages in this topic (6)
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12a. Re: diarhea
Posted by: "Judy McCammon" fenstokebullmastiffs@yahoo.com fenstokebullmastiffs
Date: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:37 pm ((PST))

ah-h-h...that is what I have done as stated above.....



Regards,

Judy

----- Original Message ----
From: costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 1:49:36 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: diarhea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogro ups.com, Judy McCammon
<fenstokebullmastif fs@...> wrote:
>
> much appreciate the help,,as I thought,was just adjustment to feed
and travelling, new water and organ too soon,etc. gave him some
pumpkin and next poo was normal....
*****
This means little. Most evidence of bleeding can be removed when a
bandage is applied. It is what happens when the bandage is removed
that matters. Same with pumpkin or other plant matter.

If the stools remain stable and to your liking when the pumpkin is
through your dog's system, great. But without a corresponding menu
change my guess is as soon as the pumpkin is gone, the loose stools
will resume.

In that case, sooner or later you will have to address menu mistakes.
Chris O

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