[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12384

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Which bone to buy
From: sahess0718

2a. Re: Whole chickens
From: carnesbill

3a. Re: What about vitamin D?
From: Giselle
3b. Re: What about vitamin D?
From: katkellm
3c. Re: What about vitamin D?
From: Sandee Lee

4. Chicken...a cannon butt proof meal?
From: Mary Tinder

5a. Ice storm opportunities
From: mozookpr
5b. Re: Ice storm opportunities
From: Morledzep@aol.com

6a. Tom Turkey necks
From: pwdohio2000
6b. Re: Tom Turkey necks
From: Giselle
6c. Re: Tom Turkey necks
From: Sandee Lee
6d. Re: Tom Turkey necks
From: pwdohio2000
6e. Re: Tom Turkey necks
From: pwdohio2000
6f. Re: Tom Turkey necks
From: Laura Atkinson

7a. Looking for people's feeding experiences
From: bettathang
7b. Re: Looking for people's feeding experiences
From: judy tallant
7c. Re: Looking for people's feeding experiences
From: Chia
7d. Re: Looking for people's feeding experiences
From: Sandee Lee
7e. Re: Looking for people's feeding experiences
From: Morledzep@aol.com
7f. Re: Looking for people's feeding experiences
From: bettathang

8.1. Re: New to this list
From: aliciamyan

9a. Re: What to do with pork shoulder
From: bcoll197

10a. Re: Finding meat
From: Sherrel Leininger

11.1. Re: green tripe
From: Yasuko herron

12. VERY interested in RAW diet for Mastiff.
From: kenh83

Messages
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1a. Re: Which bone to buy
Posted by: "sahess0718" sarlordia@sbcglobal.net sahess0718
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:57 pm ((PST))

Thanks for the tip. Great information, Thanks!

Sarah

Messages in this topic (7)
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2a. Re: Whole chickens
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:00 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sai Simonson <saiczarina@...>
wrote:
>
> Maybe I will warm the chickens up in hot water
> (cleaning off the leaves and grass in the process) and
> re-offer for supper?

If it were me, I'd just leave the chickens outside and put the dogs
out later. If they want them they will eat them. If not, they will
eat them tomorrow. Leavs and grass won't bother them. Nor will
dirt. :)

> I am thinking I should have hacked the chickens into halves or
> quarters for this first venture.

Might be a good idea. You will soon learn how much they need in a
meal.

> Wasn't totally prey model as had been gutted with a small
> piece neck & a couple of giblets tossed inside.

As new as they are, I would wait a month or so to feed organs
anyway. Put the giblets in the freezer for later.

> Liver somewhere in there,
> eggs with salmon oil, and the evil bare beef bones which I will be
> eliminating after they are gone.

If your dogs are as new as I think I remember, don't worry about
liver for a month or so.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: What about vitamin D?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:03 pm ((PST))

Hi, Nora!
Methinks you may have a bit of an axe to grind here.
I hope not.
TC
Giselle

On Dec 16, 2007 4:19 PM, Nora Lenz <nmlenz@speakeasy.net> wrote:

> <snip>
>

> I definitely don't
> recommend the "try it and see" approach to raw feeding. Those who are
> just starting to raw feed don't have to learn the hard way.
>

> <snip>
>
> Nora
> Raw feeding since 1995
> 100% raw foodist since 2000
> www.RawSchool.com
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
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3b. Re: What about vitamin D?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:45 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Nora Lenz" <nmlenz@...> wrote:

There are some standard
> criteria by which we can judge foods to determine whether they're
> suitable, and I was lacking that information when I first started
> feeding raw. I wish I hadn't learned the hard way because my dog
> would have been spared a lot of suffering. I definitely don't
> recommend the "try it and see" approach to raw feeding. Those who are
> just starting to raw feed don't have to learn the hard way.

Hi Nora,
Exactly what foods did you feed that your dog suffered? Exactly what
foods have you found to be superior and why? You are making some very
intense statements with only some fancy talk to back it up. I'm not
saying you are wrong, i'm merely saying you need to explain yourself
and not take the lofty approach with us. Presentation means a lot. No
one likes to be "talked down to." KathyM

Messages in this topic (13)
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3c. Re: What about vitamin D?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:22 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Nora Lenz" <nmlenz@...> wrote:

>The fact remains, the sickest raw-fed dogs I know are the ones that
>are heavily supplemented. Supplements do not fill in nutritional
>gaps, despite their ill-gotten reputation to the contrary, and there
>is no dog that needs supplements.

We don't recommend supplements to fill in nutritional gaps. We recommend
food to fill in nutritional gaps! Which brings us back to your original
statement that somehow adding variety to diet is considered supplementation.
That is nonsense! Food isn't supplementation...variety in food isn't
supplementation.

>There are some standard criteria by which we can judge foods to determine
whether they're
> suitable,

Yes, we do know what foods are appropriate for carnivores...lots and lots
of red meat (including fat), a little edible bone and the organs as found in
their natural prey. I fail to see how your diet meets those criteria.
Poultry isn't even species appropriate, you are lacking in red meat, fat,
far too much reliance on poultry and most likely too much bone.

So what criteria are you using?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

Messages in this topic (13)
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4. Chicken...a cannon butt proof meal?
Posted by: "Mary Tinder" mtinder@tinderco.com mmmaryt
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:44 pm ((PST))

A house sitter will be feeding and caring for our group over the
holiday. I'm figuring chicken is about the safest meal? Safest as in
from cannon butt. Since we've decided we LIKE goat, the true
experience of cannon butt has been revealed.

We've had some accidents and I'm hoping a week of chicken will pretty
much guarantee firm stools and my house sitter will not get any up
close encounters with CB .

I've heard on this list about pumpkin but not sure how to deliver. I'm
sure this has all been discussed ad nausem but what is the best search
word for the past posts?

Mary T
Rumble Dane, Boda and Lily

Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Ice storm opportunities
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:44 pm ((PST))

Hello, all.

Back online after a bit of winter camping in my living room, during
the recent ice storm.

I know lots of people have lost food in this disaster, and will be
throwing out the contents of their refrigerators and freezers. What
an opportunity for raw-feeders to pick up some "ripe" meat for our
dogs!

I suspect most folks would be happy to part with any meat they can no
longer use, but, keeping in mind that they have suffered a loss, it
would be kind to offer at least token compensation, to help them
replenish their food supplies.

Just a thought...

My dogs are new to raw, and not quite ready for "ripe" meat, I
suspect, but I know others will be able to make something good of
this sad situation.

Hoping all fellow midwesterners have kept warm,

Wendy and the carnivore crew

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Ice storm opportunities
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:57 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 12/16/2007 3:44:29 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mozookpr@yahoo.com writes:

I know lots of people have lost food in this disaster, and will be
throwing out the contents of their refrigerators and freezers. What
an opportunity for raw-feeders to pick up some "ripe" meat for our
dogs!

***i don't understand this.. i would think in an ice storm folks when folks
lose electricity they would think to pull the food out of their freezers and
refrigerators and put it in boxes outside or in the garage to keep it cold and
keep it from spoiling.

But then again i see the guys i work with using the broken refrigerator in
our lunch room to "keep their food from spoiling" when it's cooler sitting out
on the table and even colder out in our personal vehicles... refrigerators
seem to be magical boxes whether they work or not keep food safe.. lol.

Catherine R.

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Tom Turkey necks
Posted by: "pwdohio2000" pwdohio2000@yahoo.com pwdohio2000
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:44 pm ((PST))

+++Mod note: pls keep signature to 4 lines or less. This one trimmed for you. +++++++++++

Can someone advise on a good grinder that will handle turkey necks w/o
taxing the motor?

Thanks!

Barb & Kiva in Southwestern Ohio
Kiva's site http://pwdohio.tripod.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/17831868@N00/
videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17tovI6WBqo

Messages in this topic (6)
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6b. Re: Tom Turkey necks
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:52 pm ((PST))

Hi, Barb!
Best way not to tax the grinder is not to turn it on!

^_^

TC
Giselle

On Dec 16, 2007 6:37 PM, pwdohio2000 <pwdohio2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

> +++Mod note: pls keep signature to 4 lines or less. This one trimmed for
> you. +++++++++++
>
> Can someone advise on a good grinder that will handle turkey necks w/o
> taxing the motor?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Barb & Kiva in Southwestern Ohio
> Kiva's site http://pwdohio.tripod.com/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/17831868@N00/
> videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17tovI6WBqo
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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6c. Re: Tom Turkey necks
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:06 pm ((PST))

Barb,

You can find a really nice grinder here....
http://rawfeddogs.net/Terms

:))

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "pwdohio2000" <pwdohio2000@yahoo.com>

Can someone advise on a good grinder that will handle turkey necks w/o
taxing the motor?

Messages in this topic (6)
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6d. Re: Tom Turkey necks
Posted by: "pwdohio2000" pwdohio2000@yahoo.com pwdohio2000
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:57 pm ((PST))

I have been feeding this girl raw intact parts. But, she is only 3
yrs old and just had to have a major molar pulled last week. So, I
started grinding since her surgery. The tooth had bone loss and gum
recession. She has the same thing starting on the other side, same
upper molar. All we can think is that it is the teeth where she does
her grinding of the bones and it is wearing her teeth and causing gum
problems. She has been raw fed since weaning.

Trying to protect her teeth and keep that molar on the other side
from having to be pulled.

I have a Northern Tool grinder but it really taxes it to do Tom
necks.

So, if there is anyone on the list that has a suggestion of a good
grinder that will do Tom necks easily, would appreciate a
recommendation.

I don't really want to go to commercial diets, and I can get grass
fed a whole lot cheaper in bulk if I grind it myself.

Personally, I don't understand why this has happened on such a young
girl. I just got her 5 weeks ago.

Barb & Kiva in Southwestern Ohio
Kiva's site http://pwdohio.tripod.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/17831868@N00/
videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17tovI6WBqo

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Barb!
> Best way not to tax the grinder is not to turn it on!
>
> ^_^
>
> TC
> Giselle
>
> On Dec 16, 2007 6:37 PM, pwdohio2000 <pwdohio2000@...> wrote:
>
> > +++Mod note: pls keep signature to 4 lines or less. This one
trimmed for
> > you. +++++++++++
> >
> > Can someone advise on a good grinder that will handle turkey
necks w/o
> > taxing the motor?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Barb & Kiva in Southwestern Ohio
> > Kiva's site http://pwdohio.tripod.com/
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/17831868@N00/
> > videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17tovI6WBqo
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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6e. Re: Tom Turkey necks
Posted by: "pwdohio2000" pwdohio2000@yahoo.com pwdohio2000
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:57 pm ((PST))

That is not helpful to me at all.

I have a 3 yr old Min. Poodle that has been raw fed/prey fed since
weaning. She had an upper major molar extracted last week due to
bone loss and gum recession. The same tooth on the other side has
also started the same route and we are hoping to save it. The only
thing we can determine is that this is where she has done her major
crushing of the bones and for whatever reason this girl is having a
problem with her teeth because of this.

I have been grinding her bones since her surgery last week, my
Northern Tool grinder is doing the Tom necks but doesn't sound so
good while doing it.

I don't want to turn to pre-ground commercial diet, I like the source
of the meat I am getting (free range) and don't need the type of
answers I am getting from this list thus far.

If there are any nice people on this list that grind Tom turkey necks
with ease, please respond to me privately at

pwdohio2000@yahoo.com

Thanks for being so nice folks. Shame on you. If I was a newbie,
you might have chased me off from feeding raw entirely! Guess there
is no netique on this list!

Barb & Kiva in Southwestern Ohio
Kiva's site http://pwdohio.tripod.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/17831868@N00/

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Barb,
>
> You can find a really nice grinder here....
> http://rawfeddogs.net/Terms
>
> :))
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "pwdohio2000" <pwdohio2000@...>
>
> Can someone advise on a good grinder that will handle turkey necks
w/o
> taxing the motor?
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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6f. Re: Tom Turkey necks
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:49 pm ((PST))

I'm guessing that you're not pinpointing the source of the problem. I have
a boy who had a major molar pulled from the top jaw...on one side. He
crunches through bones just fine. The bone loss and gum recession are a
health issue, not a diet issue. I'd go so far as to hypothesize that
removing whole bones from her diet will cause further damage to her teeth.

While ground food may be handy for the post-surgery healing, keeping the
rest of her teeth and gums healthy with whole food is overall better for
her. Was she raw fed before you got her? Does she have a history of
getting vaccinations? Either of those two issues could result in the issues
that are making themselves known now.

And, for the record, I don't know of a mechanical grinder, short of the
commercial ones, that will do turkey necks...for grinding bone you may have
to stick with the softer chicken and pork bones.

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Send more trespassers, the last ones were delicious

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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7a. Looking for people's feeding experiences
Posted by: "bettathang" bettathang@yahoo.com bettathang
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:56 pm ((PST))

Hello All-
After doing some intensive reading about the pros and "cons" of
feeding raw, I keep find people advising not to feed raw because of
stomach/intestine/whatever tears, inappropriate nutrition, bacterial
infections, and on and on. I'm just wondering, has anyone ACTUALLY
had this happen to their dogs? I know that freak accidents do happen,
but I'm just looking for experiences. My vet is trying to convince me
that I am killing my dogs, but I have had no problems so far. I make
sure that my boys chew up everything, eat reasonably slowly, and have
a good variety of meats and organs. I thought that out of the
thousands of members on this site, surely I'll be able to either
confirm or refute these claims.
Thanks!
-Heidi
(George & Gaston)

Messages in this topic (6)
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7b. Re: Looking for people's feeding experiences
Posted by: "judy tallant" judy@tallant.com judyltallant
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:12 pm ((PST))

I've never had a problem with anything I've ever fed, in terms of
illness or injury. A couple times a dog couldn't deal with something
that came right back up - but that's it. Once, it was a salmon
skeleton (trimmed from one I filleted) without enough meat on it that
came up on the living room carpet - not pretty. But I think it was
more irritation to the throat and stomach lining than anything else
because this dog is a food wolfer and anything too easy to swallow
whole will be. Another dog that has since "gone to the bridge",
couldn't handle a chicken back that he swallowed nearly whole and it
too came right back up. For me, the key to success is feeding a meal
that is one big piece of something like a chicken qtr, salmon heads/
tails, whole smelt or rainbow brook trout, big meaty bone, etc.

On Dec 16, 2007, at 3:58 PM, bettathang wrote:

> I thought that out of the
> thousands of members on this site, surely I'll be able to either
> confirm or refute these claims.
> Thanks!

Judy Tallant
Snohomish, Wa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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7c. Re: Looking for people's feeding experiences
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:13 pm ((PST))

Hello All-
After doing some intensive reading about the pros and "cons" of
feeding raw, I keep find people advising not to feed raw because of
stomach/intestine/whatever tears, inappropriate nutrition, bacterial
infections, and on and on. I'm just wondering, has anyone ACTUALLY
had this happen to their dogs? I know that freak accidents do happen,
but I'm just looking for experiences. My vet is trying to convince me
that I am killing my dogs, but I have had no problems so far. I make
sure that my boys chew up everything, eat reasonably slowly, and have
a good variety of meats and organs. I thought that out of the
thousands of members on this site, surely I'll be able to either
confirm or refute these claims.

#### do NOT be intimidated by your vet. You ARE doing the right thing
and I know how easy it is to be skittish when a so-called professional,
touts the horrors of an appropriate diet.

Freak accidents can and do happen but instead of an acute trauma, which
can also be experienced feeding kibble, it is the longer term, systemic
health issues that are lining the pockets of Vets and the drug companies,
truly this is so.

With knowledge, comes confidence. Read up on how a dog/wolf digests and
eliminates food .. empower yourself with the knowledge of what happens when
you cook meat and how this actually 'promotes' MORE bacteria...read up and
you won't believe how much confidence you'll acquire.

There are 4000 on this list and I doubt there is even one story of issues
related to raw, except for trivial, silly issues that weren't harmful to the
dog/cat whatsoever.

Proper food, no drugs, chemicals, vaccines ...equals health!

Chia & Ricco
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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7d. Re: Looking for people's feeding experiences
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:22 pm ((PST))

Heidi,

Closer to 10,000 members...but no, have not heard of any reliable reports
either here or elsewhere. Have been feeding raw for 8 years, been a member
here for close to 5 of those and other lists prior to that.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "bettathang" <bettathang@yahoo.com>
After doing some intensive reading about the pros and "cons" of
feeding raw, I keep find people advising not to feed raw because of
stomach/intestine/whatever tears, inappropriate nutrition, bacterial
infections, and on and on. I'm just wondering, has anyone ACTUALLY
had this happen to their dogs? I know that freak accidents do happen,
but I'm just looking for experiences. My vet is trying to convince me
that I am killing my dogs, but I have had no problems so far. I make
sure that my boys chew up everything, eat reasonably slowly, and have
a good variety of meats and organs. I thought that out of the
thousands of members on this site, surely I'll be able to either
confirm or refute these claims.

Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________

7e. Re: Looking for people's feeding experiences
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:54 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 12/16/2007 4:57:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bettathang@yahoo.com writes:

I'm just wondering, has anyone ACTUALLY
had this happen to their dogs? I know that freak accidents do happen,
but I'm just looking for experiences.

Heidi,

most of these "accidents" had nothing to do with raw bones at all. Most were
caused by COOKED bones that the owners handed the dogs at the end of their
meal. Cooked bones are harder to digest, and very brittle, they can break and
splinter and CAN inflict damage to dogs' stomach and intestines and can cause
blockages.

This is one of many scare tactics we hear regularly from vets.

some of the others are dogs having bacterial infections from salmonella,
campylobacter, e-coli.. and they always come up with new ones to try to scare us.

then there are the vets that say: "oh good, i'm glad you're doing that for
your dog. Here is a suppliment so you get his nutrition properly balanced".

Ignore them.. they are threatened by your dogs becoming healthy. They know
that you will spend less money in their practices and since you're willing to
research how your dogs should eat, you're likely to research that your dogs'
immune systems are being assaulted and damaged by annual vaccines. And then they
will lose even the petty $1 or two that they make on that. And worse yet,
you might talk to and convince someone else in their practice that their dogs
could be healthier and your vet will lose even more money..

we've heard it all.. been there done that. We, as a group, have learned to
deal with it.. Some of us have agreed to disagree with our vets. Some have
changed vets over and over again until we found one that doesn't argue with our
food choices. Some have just quit going to vets that ask what our food choices
are.

My dogs' vet is seriously lacking in the diagnostic dept. But he is a
believer in raw diets, even though he knows very little about them. He is good at
sewing animals back together after they get hurt and that's about the extent of
our relationship now that we don't go for regular exams and vaccines. But i
do board my dogs there because he knows me (we've been going to him for nearly
20 years) and he knows that my dogs are healthy and doesn't insist that i get
them vaccinated so they can stay there. And he feeds my dogs what i ask him
to feed them, i just provide the daily meals in ziplock bags and label them.

ok.. that's probably too much info..
Catherine R.

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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7f. Re: Looking for people's feeding experiences
Posted by: "bettathang" bettathang@yahoo.com bettathang
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:58 pm ((PST))

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that my veterinarian is my employer (I'm a
vet tech). I'm sure that he is completely wrong (as he recommends
Purina...yum yum!). No worries, I'm not second-guessing my decision at
all, just asking out of curiosity/wanting confirmation.
Thanks again, and very interesting answers so far!
-Heidi and the boys

Messages in this topic (6)
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8.1. Re: New to this list
Posted by: "aliciamyan" alicia_larson@msn.com aliciamyan
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:57 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Chia <chia.m@...> wrote:
>
"...and due to this, if WE eat meat, commercially, horribly raised...

It isn't rocket science to observe that processed crap and mass
production of meats and dairy is contributing to the downfall of
proper health. When children are being diagnosed with Type 2
Diabetes in alarming rates unseen in the past, we need to look at
poor nutrition."

****Albeit, completely off-topic for this site and I'll be surprised
if my post makes it past the mods, I couldn't help but comment...I
too work in the health industry, specifically with the overweight. I
agree, Chia, to a certain extent, but need to clarify the problem is
what we do to the meat once it leaves the whole animal - nevermind
whether it is "organic, free-range, or mass rasied". I can bet mass
raised meat cooked in a low-fat manner and served in the appropriate
portion size for the consumer is not a culprit to type 2 Diabetes.
But, mass produced, processed meat (or any processed food) purchased
anywhere, primarily fast-food joints, are a major culprit. Look
around and I bet you can't drive a mile in most towns without
spotting atleast 2 fast-food establishments - look closer and you'll
probably see a kid sitting in nearly every car in the drive-thru.
Supply and demand at its finest. Beyond the drive-thru - go sit in
any school cafeteria and see what is offered or even worse, what
parents are packing for their children. As a parent myself, I am
apalled and saddened by what I see at my own children's school. As
for the dairy, hopefully the industry will get the hint if we only
buy hormone-free. Before blaming the factory farms, it needs to
start with the consumer...our friends, family, neighbors, clients,
community members, or better yet, fast-food corporations. We
wouldn't stand by and knowingly let a drug dealer solicit our
children, but we let fast-food companies appeal to our youth with a
product just as addictive and dangerous to their health.

So, back to our four-legged friends and RAW meat, as it has been said
here before, raw meat - regardless of where it is purchased from, is
far better than doom nuggets (the equivalent to doggie-fast-food). I
am stepping off the soapbox now.

Best wishes with your profession - keep spreading the health!

Alicia

Messages in this topic (31)
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9a. Re: What to do with pork shoulder
Posted by: "bcoll197" bcoll197@yahoo.com bcoll197
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:54 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "johnsonkp200"
< sunfiretervs@...> wrote:
>

> Today I bought a 9 pound pork picnic shoulder, bone in. I have a 50
lb dog. Now, how do I serve it? I feed him 2x a day. Many say just
give it to the dog whole. Isn't 9 pounds a bit too much for a meal? I
don't relish the idea of putting it back in the fridge over and over -
after all, how do I know how long to leave it with him, and how
would I monitor how much he ate at a sitting? >
Karen

~~We are also new to raw, but had an interesting experience tonight
with a shoulder. Because of where it split, one dog got too much
bone and the other got too much meat. The dogs weigh 85 and 100 lbs,
and are normally gluttons...they both walked away when they had
enough of their portion. The dog who got too much meat proceeded to
the bedroom to chew on a bare bone, so I examined the portions they
left. Of course, one left all bone and the other left all meat. I
offered the good bone to the one who was looking for something to
chew. The dog who had left it looked at me funny for giving away his
bone, but allowed it...especially when I started feeding him the meat
that she had left. When they both finished, they seemed content.
It's amazing how they will self-regulate once they realize the raw
meat isn't a one-time deal.
~~Barb

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10a. Re: Finding meat
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:54 pm ((PST))

Bill

Thank you. I went to your web page and read it. It answered several questions I had. I printed it out.

I actually feel much better, not so unsure about making this change. It should be much easier than what I am doing now. Every six days I have to take an entire afternoon and cook the next weeks food for 2 dogs. Once I get going on this it should be easier.

Thank all of you.

Sherrel

____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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Messages in this topic (4)
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11.1. Re: green tripe
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:54 pm ((PST))

>its all black and the smell is worse than halitosis! lol

Yea,and sometimes,the buffalo hair comes with it.How natural is that,lol.

>Yassy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spleen

So,I saw thesite and it says the spleen color is white and purple so,the white Jellybean-like thing is actually one part of Spleen,do you think???It is ok to give??

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (94)
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12. VERY interested in RAW diet for Mastiff.
Posted by: "kenh83" kenh83@yahoo.com kenh83
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:54 pm ((PST))

About 2 weeks ago or so, I found a website forum dedicated to
Mastiff's and their owners.. someone mentioned he RAW fed and thought
it was great.

I have been doing alot of reading on this list, along with the common
links that come up on this list about raw feeding, raw feeding faqs,
raw feeding myths, etc.. I'm far from an expert in any way, shape or
form.. more like far from rookie! Anyway, onto the real reason i'm here..

I have two Old English Mastiff's, one is going to be 15 months old
soon, the other will be 5 months soon. They both eat the same dog
food, commercial dry food: Diamond 60+ -- I've choosen this mainly
because the "Great Lakes Mastiff Rescue" volunteers at a Pet Expo
locally suggested it to me. I actually call one of those volunteers
when I have questions regarding my mastiffs.

My question is, will RAW feeding be cheaper than commercial food. A
lot of the sites out there and ones that are posted on this list
frequently say that it is, however I do not see how that is possible.
A bag big of Diamond 60+ lasts me about 2-2.5 weeks, and it costs
about $20 with tax. This feeds two dogs. THEY ARE FREELY FED I should
add. They eat when they want. Everyone I talk to on the mastiff site I
goto says they look healthy (structure/build) according to what they eat.

Mainly what I'm looking for here is someone who has fed RAW to a
MASTIFF for a while and what it comes out to be monthly as a cost?

I totally understand the benefits of feeding RAW, i'm just unsure if I
could afford it or not. :(

I hope I am asking the right questions here and I am sorry if I
digress, its a bad habit.

Thanks,

Ken

Messages in this topic (1)
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