Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 12383

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Anyone from Alabama?
From: Giselle
1b. Re: Anyone from Alabama?
From: donna

2.1. File - Other related lists
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com

3a. File - Admin-Trim it, Sign it, and Sig lines-PLEASE READ!!!
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com

4.1. Re: New to this list
From: Sandee Lee
4.2. Re: New to this list
From: carnesbill
4.3. Re: New to this list
From: carnesbill
4.4. Re: New to this list
From: Chia

5a. Re: What about vitamin D?
From: Sandee Lee
5b. Re: What about vitamin D?
From: Nora Lenz
5c. Re: What about vitamin D?
From: carnesbill

6.1. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
From: cypressbunny
6.2. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
From: carnesbill
6.3. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
From: Bumble1994@aol.com
6.4. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
From: carnesbill

7a. Re: Finding meat
From: carnesbill

8a. Re: Which bone to buy
From: vickies_28
8b. Re: Which bone to buy
From: Giselle

9a. Re: meaty meat meals
From: Jamie Dolan
9b. Re: meaty meat meals
From: shefy gupta

10a. Re: chicken liver
From: shefy gupta

11a. Re: brown teeth
From: shefy gupta

12a. Re: Whole chickens
From: Sai Simonson

13a. Re: What to do with pork shoulder
From: shefy gupta

14a. Re: Organs to New Raw Eaters
From: shefy gupta

Messages
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1a. Re: Anyone from Alabama?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:00 pm ((PST))

Hi, Sherrel!
Its not a 'must have', although it is a small part of prey
model feeding, being part of a critter. But dogs like it so much! Its great
as a treat, to start a dubious dog off on a new food, to hide pills or liver
in, etc.

I usually get it ground in a 5# chub, divide it into smaller amounts and
freeze it. Then, I just pull out a bit whenever.

TC
Giselle

On Dec 16, 2007 3:25 PM, Sherrel Leininger <meawolf50@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi Giselle
>
> Thanks maybe I will wait until summer so they can enjoy it outside!! :-)
>
> Sherrel
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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1b. Re: Anyone from Alabama?
Posted by: "donna" heartathome@att.net jubileeberry
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:15 pm ((PST))

I am in trinity area..i will give that a look :)
donna

>Not in Al, but am your neighbor, over in northeast MS. Im just a
>stones throw from AL. Howdy neighbors!
>:-)
>For you folks in AL there is supposed to be a butcher shop, or
>slaughterhouse or something there, I think the guy said in Trinity.
>A local small time store gets their meat from them...they suggested
>it as a possible place to find green tripe and other yummies. I
>wasnt talking to anyone who really knew much, supposed to go back
>and speak with manager, who can give me more details. Just thot Id
>see if you AL folks mgiht know about this place?
>
>Michelle Radcliff
>Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
><http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html>http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html
>
>__________________________________________________________
>Be a better friend, newshound, and
>know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
><http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ>http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
Namaste,
donna
)O(
Uppity Women Unite

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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2.1. File - Other related lists
Posted by: "rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com" rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:25 pm ((PST))

This list is part of a group of lists run by the same moderation team. Since several of the lists are quite large we often encourage that threads be taken to some of the smaller subject specific lists so you may want to join the lists that cover issues you are interested in now.

The lists are:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oldrawguys/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/catandkittenhealth/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learntoshow/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DogHealth/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dogmentor/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawbreeder/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawPup/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RMBLobby/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canineaggression/

And if you are stuck on a particular issue that you just can't seem to work out, try this list:

http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/rawissues

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BasicRaw/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalFerrets/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawVet/
For vets, vet techs and vet students only

There is also a list of lists where other raw feeding lists can be found. Many are breed specific, location specific or subject specific.

http://www.rawlearning.com

Thanks from the moderation team!

Messages in this topic (124)
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3a. File - Admin-Trim it, Sign it, and Sig lines-PLEASE READ!!!
Posted by: "rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com" rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:25 pm ((PST))

Hello all! (Don't delete without reading. Yes, there is a test later.)

Firstly, the raw feeding list was established in 1999. It has evolved under a couple of different names, but remains with primarily the same list moderation team.

This primary objective of the list is to provide a place where people who
feed raw food or who want to feed raw can discuss this and closely associated issues.

This is not a list to discuss which kibble or home cooking method is best.
There are other email lists that can provide you with that sort of forum.
The forum here is specifically to discuss appropriate raw diets.

*******A learning environment

We aim at all times to maintain a learning environment.
Every so often someone joins the list with a different agenda.
We work hard in the background to do everything we can to keep discussion on topic at all times, and those who don't find the environment comfortable (about 0.5%), we encourage to join other more suitable email lists.

The most important thing is you join a group you are comfortable with.
We acknowledge the vast differences that exist between people and their learning styles, and as you'll appreciate we can't make everyone happy.

Now for a few of the easy rules:

*******PLEASE TRIM YOUR POSTS

This means when you are replying to an email DO NOT include the ENTIRE EMAIL in your reply.

You can include a SMALL portion of the email you are replying to. Try to stick to a couple of relevant lines.

Delete all headers and footers.

List members who do not trim their posts will be placed on moderation.

**********PLEASE SIGN YOUR MAILS

This means when you are to sign your name at the bottom of every single mail you send to the list.

List members who continue to send unsigned posts after being warned risk having their mail deleted!!

**********CHANGE THE SUBJECT LINE WHEN THE SUBJECT CHANGES
This is a high volume list. Changing subject lines allows people to delete those messages that are topics they have no interest in. IF you change subject lines properly then when responding to a post of the same subject you should not have to include ANY of the email you are responding too since those reading the thread will be able to follow it anyway.

********NO MONSTER SIGNATURES PLEASE!
Several lines are ok but nothing over 4 lines please.
(and please don't advertise in your signatures either)

*********NEW MEMBERS ARE MODERATED.
You will not get OFF of moderate until you prove you can trim your posts and change your subject lines. ALSO the moderators do not have time to trim your posts for you so if a post comes through moderate that is not trimmed it will be sent back to you to trim before it is sent to the list.

If you are currently off of moderate but stop changing subject lines or trimming posts for some reason you will be put back on moderate.

Following these simple rules will make life easier for folks on digest
and save money for those folks who must PAY for their Internet by the amount of time they are on line.

Thanks so much.

List Moderators

Messages in this topic (14)
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4.1. Re: New to this list
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:41 pm ((PST))

Hi Sherrel,

Carnivores are designed to derive all of their nutrition from their natural
prey....meat, bones and organs. They have no requirement for carbohydrates
so you are right to be concerned about their diet.

Do some reading through the rawfeeding myths....
http://rawfed.com/
http://rawfed.com/myths/index.html

Where to feed is easy....put down a towel or blanket, feed dogs, throw in
wash every once in a while. :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Sherrel Leininger" <meawolf50@yahoo.com>
> My home cooked consists of 10 lbs of dark meat chicken quarters which is
cooked for 2.5 hours in a pressure cooker. this way the bones are soft and
can be mashed with a spoon and they can be fed without fear. Aproxamatly 10
lbs of a variety of veggies and 10 cups of cooked rice. This week I cooked
5 pounds of red skinned potatoes, 2 pounds carrots these are fresh veggies.
I also put in 2 lbs each peas and lima beans. I put in 6 uncooked cups of
white rice. Cook until veggies and rice are cooked. Sometimes I add fruit
to the mix. Recently I have begun to add an egg to the morning feed. I
have, 1 or 2 times a week recently made their meals with 1/2 a pound of
hamburger with veggies and rice or oatmeal. I have a Pitcairn book but he
uses a lot of oatmeal.
>
> I have to say I have problems understanding how just meat is enough
(balanced) for good nutrition. But I am very concerned about the level of
carbs I have gotten to. So I need to learn more.
>
> One question I do have about raw feeding is the mess. If I give each of
my girls a chicken quarter won't there be a greasy mess whereever they eat.
they have blanketsor pads in their crates so I don't want raw chicken ground
in to the fabic. If they lay in the kitchen I would have to mop the floor
twice a day. It is winter here so they can not go outside to eat.

Messages in this topic (30)
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4.2. Re: New to this list
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:42 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Chia <chia.m@...> wrote:
>
> and due to this, if WE eat meat, commercially, horribly raised, WE
> NEED to supplement with Omega 3....same for our canine
> companions...

How much Omega 3 do we need in our diet? How much do dogs need?
Where is there some good unbiased material to read?

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (30)
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4.3. Re: New to this list
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:42 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jennifer_hell" <jenniferhell@...>
wrote:

> In theory that sounds right, but what if those herbivores don't get
> fed plant material, but grains?

Grains are plant material. If the prey animal was somewhat healthy
when he died, I think we can assume he had all the nutrients he needed.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (30)
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4.4. Re: New to this list
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:53 pm ((PST))

How much Omega 3 do we need in our diet? How much do dogs need?
Where is there some good unbiased material to read?

#### there is tremendous information @ mercola's site. Also, the Weston
Price Foundation. Since the introduction of vegetable oils, (cheap), the
Omega 6 ratio is so VAST in comparison to where it is supposed to be in
relation to 3's. The exact ratio we need to supplement if we eat improper
foods, I do not know... but I DO KNOW that whole, natural foods with the
majority being raw with no sugars and good fats based on nature is best.
That is just common sense.

It isn't rocket science to observe that processed crap and mass production
of meats and dairy is contributing to the downfall of proper health. When
children are being diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes in alarming rates unseen
in the past, we need to look at poor nutrition.

Off topic for here but as a personal trainer I research EVERYTHING for my
clients to the best of my ability. Fresh, natural raw foods are BEST for
us, and for the pets in our charge.

Chia & Ricco

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Messages in this topic (30)
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5a. Re: What about vitamin D?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:42 pm ((PST))

You neglected one little important bit of information....*when necessary*!
When asked about supplements the normal response from this list has always
been the same....use them for a specific known need not "just in case"!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "carnesbill" <carnesw@bellsouth.net>

I've seen all of the above recommended many times over the years.
I've seen fish body oil, glucosamine, Chondroiten(sp), slippery elm,
yogurt, probiotics, countless homeopathic "remedies", vitamins C, D,
and E and those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my
head.

Messages in this topic (10)
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5b. Re: What about vitamin D?
Posted by: "Nora Lenz" nmlenz@speakeasy.net rawnora
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:42 pm ((PST))

Chris,
The fact remains, the sickest raw-fed dogs I know are the ones that
are heavily supplemented. Supplements do not fill in nutritional
gaps, despite their ill-gotten reputation to the contrary, and there
is no dog that needs supplements. They only further pollute the body,
although they may act sometimes to suppress symptoms. This is often
seen as a good thing (it is, in fact, the foundation of veterinary and
human medicine) but it is not -- it only transfers the burden to other
areas of the body besides those affected by the original causative
factors, leaving those causes to continue on their path of destruction
and degeneration.

Chris wrote: "A person can't know what food works and what doesn't
until a comparison is made."

This is not correct. There is enough known about the true needs of
dogs that it is not necessary for us to experiment on our dogs. There
are lots of different foods that are suitable for feeding to dogs but
among these some are better than others and that information does not
vary significantly from one dog to another. There are some standard
criteria by which we can judge foods to determine whether they're
suitable, and I was lacking that information when I first started
feeding raw. I wish I hadn't learned the hard way because my dog
would have been spared a lot of suffering. I definitely don't
recommend the "try it and see" approach to raw feeding. Those who are
just starting to raw feed don't have to learn the hard way. They can
learn from my experiences and those of other long-term raw feeders.

Nora
Raw feeding since 1995
100% raw foodist since 2000
www.RawSchool.com

Messages in this topic (10)
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5c. Re: What about vitamin D?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:42 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> You neglected one little important bit of information....
>*when necessary*!

"When necessary" was not in your post nor the post you were
answering. I have not seen any convincing evidence that any of the
itmes listed are ever necessary.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (10)
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6.1. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:45 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
>
> I don't see how it could be. Where are all the cows and chickens
> raised by the giant farms going?

*** Those cows and chickens could be pastured on the land that is now
used to grow food for them and ship it to them. Instead, we use
massive amounts of petroleum to plant, harvest, and ship animal feeds
that the animals could easily harvest themselves.

> I can promise you that small family farms can not now nor anytime
in
> the future supply enough food to feed this country and the rest of
> the world.

*** The US does very little to feed the world. We are a net importer
of food. You are right that most animals are produced by megafarms,
but that isn't because it has to be.

> Even if family farms could produce enough food to feed the
> country/world, they cannot do it nearly as efficiently as the
> factory farms. The price of food would be out of reach for many
> people.

*** Depends on your definition of "efficiency". Thanks to petroleum,
it is possible to run factory farms, at rather great expense to
health and environment. Food prices in the US are artificially low
thanks to subsidies at every level of food production--money that
small farmers don't have access to.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (28)
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6.2. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:42 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cypressbunny" <cypressbunny@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "carnesbill" <carnesw@> wrote:
> >
> > I don't see how it could be. Where are all the cows and
chickens
> > raised by the giant farms going?
>
> *** Those cows and chickens could be pastured on the land that
> is now
> used to grow food for them and ship it to them. Instead, we use
> massive amounts of petroleum to plant, harvest, and ship
> animal feeds that the animals could easily harvest themselves.

I don't think you are exactly aware of what happens in the food
production world. Those cows spend most of their lives in a
pasture. They are sent to feed lots only the last few months of
their life. Most of them live to be 3 or 4 or 5 years old.

Chickens are different. They only live about 9 weeks and are raised
in houses. However if they can see the sky from inside their house,
they are considered free ranging chickens.

> *** The US does very little to feed the world. We are a
> net importer of food. You are right that most animals are
> produced by megafarms, but that isn't because it has to be.

Actually, I don't think thats true. I haven't seen any recent
figures but I know we used to ship millions of tons to USSR and
China several years ago. We also ship food to India and probably a
lot of other places.

Most animals are produced by megafarms because its the most
efficient way to do it.

> *** Depends on your definition of "efficiency". Thanks
> to petroleum,
> it is possible to run factory farms, at rather great expense to
> health and environment.

"Efficiency" is getting the most food to the most people at the
lowest cost. I think you are exagurating expense to health and
evironment. I think you are forgetting the people who could not
afford food and people who just plain couldn't get it if it weren't
for the megafarms producing so much more efficiently. We are
getting many times more food/acre of land than we were 50 years ago.

> Food prices in the US are artificially low
> thanks to subsidies at every level of food production--money that
> small farmers don't have access to.

What are these subsities that every farmer can't get? Actually the
subsitites keep the price of food up, not down. I know corn, wheat,
and milk prices are supported by the government. I don't think meat
prices are affected at all. Meat prices are a supply/demand thing.
Thats why they are constantly fluctuating.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (28)
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6.3. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:42 pm ((PST))

Yes, Bill, but the link in that message, which leads to the study,
unfortunately no longer works!

Lynda

In a message dated 12/16/2007 3:45:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
"carnesbill" writes:

--- In _rawfeeding@yahoogrorawfeed_ (mailto:rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com) ,
"costrowski75" <Chriso75@..C> wrote:
>
> > _http://pets.http://pets.http://pethttp://petshttp://pets._
(http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/67499)
> *****
> Thanks, Sandee!
> Unfortunately the link doesn't go there anymore, but it
> is reassuring
> to know there's hope yet for my memory.

Chris,
Try the link again. It worked for me even off your post.

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (28)
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6.4. Re: Free Range Raw Feeding
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:57 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Bumble1994@... wrote:
>
>
> Yes, Bill, but the link in that message, which leads to the study,
> unfortunately no longer works!

OHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhh .............................. nevermind.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (28)
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7a. Re: Finding meat
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:42 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sherrel Leininger <meawolf50@...>
wrote:
>
> OK I am wondering about the meat served to the dogs. If I
> buy meat from the grocery store (usually Wal Mart for me) then
> I am not sure what all has been done to this meat to
> and including fed many different types of meds and
> growth hormones to iradiating it before packing it for
> stores. Would this also be true of butchers? Meat
> processing places?

It's the same everywhere. To me, its just not important enough to
give a second thought to. Buy the meat and feed it to your dogs
(what you don't eat yourself.) :) Even if it says "organic"
or "grass fed" or "free ranging", none of those terms mean what most
people think they do.

> Where do you get your meat.

Mostly at a small independent grocer, some at Walmart and some at
Publix(where I buy my own food).

> When just starting to feed raw is there a certain secquence
> to start.

Check out my web page listed below.

> Like my girls are used to eating cooked chicken so maybe I
> should start with raw chicken?

I would begin with chicken just because its easy, cheap, and easy to
digest.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: Which bone to buy
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:42 pm ((PST))

What about pork ribs? I just bouhgt a slab, about 15-17 inches long,
with meat and bones, ribs. Gave it to my dog, he didn't know what to
do with it. He started going after the bone, instead of ripping the
meat off, like you all describe here. What do I do? did I buy the
wrong kind? Beef ribs are not available in my area in slabs, only
smaller portions for human concumption. The guys at the store told
me they get their meat pre-cut.
Any advice?
Thanks
Vickie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Sarah!
> Don't buy bare, dense bones so that your dog has no
> alternative but to try to crunch the bone itself.
>
> I occasionally give my dog a bone, on one of those 'after' days
when she has
> had Big Food or a gorge meal.
>
> I'd recommend that you get whole pig's feet, beef or deer or lamb
or goat
> legs that still have some meat, the connective tissue and skin/fur
on them.
> Some of these bones 'may' be partially or entirely edible for your
dogs,
> depending on your dogs sizes.
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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8b. Re: Which bone to buy
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:49 pm ((PST))

Hi, Vickie!
Pork, lamb and goat ribs are all mostly or entirely edible
for most dogs, unlike beef ribs, ime.

If your boy wants to start with the bone when eating pork ribs, I say, let
him!

TC
Giselle

On Dec 16, 2007 5:06 PM, vickies_28 <vickies_28@yahoo.com> wrote:

> What about pork ribs?
>

> <snip>
>

> What do I do? did I buy the wrong kind?
>

> <snip>
> Any advice?
> Thanks
> Vickie
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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9a. Re: meaty meat meals
Posted by: "Jamie Dolan" jamiedolan@gmail.com jamiedolan
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:42 pm ((PST))

Giselle gave some great tips here. This is very much the same approach I
would suggest. Please let us know how it works out feeding them larger
pieces.

Good Luck
Jamie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (17)
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9b. Re: meaty meat meals
Posted by: "shefy gupta" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:42 pm ((PST))

totally agreed, don't worry about it! yes, they will probably have looooooose stools at the beginning while their body adjusts... but about 2 months after snowy's been on real big chunks of mostly meats, he's doing great. he rarely has loose stools enough to stain his white fur and require a butt bath. sometimes it's the meat that may cause the loose stools as well, not the lack of bone. like when snowy has rabbit or duck or beef, he gets looser stools bc of the fat i guess...

at the beginning i too was used to feeding a bone patty in the am and meat only in the pm...but now i see they really don't need much bone. usually the chunks i give snowy have bone in it like turkey breast or lamb leg, but he just knows how much he needs, bone and meat, and leaves the rest...

give 'em a chance, but just watch closely :)

shefy and snowy

will cause looser stools than
normal, but will NOT cause diarrhea.

Catherine R.

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10a. Re: chicken liver
Posted by: "shefy gupta" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:42 pm ((PST))

haha that is so funny! first time i gave it to snowy was when i traded it for his ham bone. he put it down and did a happy dance for a few minutes and then just sniffed the liver to death before eating it lol...

shefy and snowy

My aussie, goes so far as to not only refuse liver, but he wont eat anything the liver has touched. :-)

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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11a. Re: brown teeth
Posted by: "shefy gupta" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:42 pm ((PST))

don't know the exact term of dentists, but it might come off...snowy gets these too and he can usually get it off himself with a hambone and whole chicken...

if not, you can just brush it off...might take awhile though...

shefy and snowy

ginny wilken <gwilken@alamedanet.net> wrote:
On Dec 12, 2007, at 10:54 PM, Kelly P wrote:

> I noticed today that my year old dog has brown spots on two of her
> teeth on opposite sides of her mouth towards the back. Shes been raw
> fed since we got her at 12 mos so I'm confused as to why she has these
> brown spots. Any ideas? I looked in archives and did not find
> anything helpful
>

Depending on the individual's dentition and exact diet, uncleaned
spots can persist. That said, probably the biggest factor in stained
teeth these days is the distemper vaccine, which discolors
permanently in susceptible individuals.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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12a. Re: Whole chickens
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:45 pm ((PST))

Giselle,

The chickens are out in the yard. The dogs are napping. My thought is
no more food today. Maybe I will warm the chickens up in hot water
(cleaning off the leaves and grass in the process) and re-offer for
supper? I am thinking I should have hacked the chickens into halves or
quarters for this first venture.

Wasn't totally prey model as had been gutted with a small piece neck & a
couple of giblets tossed inside.
Usually there are turkey necks or whole wings in AM and 3 thighs for the
boy, 2 thighs for the girl at supper time. Liver somewhere in there,
eggs with salmon oil, and the evil bare beef bones which I will be
eliminating after they are gone.

Sai

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13a. Re: What to do with pork shoulder
Posted by: "shefy gupta" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:46 pm ((PST))

most likely he'll figure out how much he needs before he's full. first time i gave snowy a big hunk of lamb leg he ate too much and then barfed. after that he just eats till he's full and then leaves it... he eats twice a day and is used to eating 1/2lb a day. he himself eats 1/4 in the am and 1/4 in the pm. no need for me to weigh and sort anymore :)

i vary what he eats on a daily basis so i just rinse it off with water and refreeze the chunk until the following week...

best

shefy and snowy

> Today I bought a 9 pound pork picnic shoulder, bone in. I have a 50
> lb dog. Now, how do I serve it? I feed him 2x a day. Many say just
> give it to the dog whole. Isn't 9 pounds a bit too much for a meal?

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14a. Re: Organs to New Raw Eaters
Posted by: "shefy gupta" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:52 pm ((PST))

i couldn't imagine feeding snowy inside the house anymore! he's pure white and i have to wipe him down after a meal as it is. i fed him a few times inside a room and i got sick of scrubbing down the floor twice a day...

i just feed him in the garden, so much easier. or it rains, under the covered part of the backyard...

you probably need lots of soap :)

maybe she just doesn't want to eat liver ;) i know i wouldn't..hehe...

best
shefy and snowy

After finding my white kitchen and ceiling liberally decorated with
liver scraps I decided just to pass on the liver in future (grin)

Best wishes,
Jane

PS Thanks for all the info about spaniels, i have switched her over to
raw foods today and for the first time she seemed to ejoy her dinner.
Many thanks folks

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Feed Pets Raw Food

Sunday, December 16, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12383

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