[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12390

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: the best grinders.....
From: Giselle

2a. Duck anyone?
From: Michelle R
2b. Re: Duck anyone?
From: jennifer mcfaden
2c. Re: Duck anyone?
From: Yasuko herron
2d. Re: Duck anyone?
From: Michelle R
2e. Re: Duck anyone?
From: Heather

3a. Re: pork shoulder
From: Lauren Funaiole
3b. Re: pork shoulder
From: Sherrel Leininger
3c. Re: pork shoulder
From: Yasuko herron

4a. Because you all will understand my glee
From: Kathie Middlemiss
4b. I do understand!
From: mozookpr

5a. Re: Almost raw for humans
From: SLib700@aol.com

6.1. Re: New to this list
From: Sherrel Leininger
6.2. Re: New to this list
From: Sandee Lee

7a. Re: Looking for peoples experience
From: merril Woolf
7b. Re: Looking for peoples experience
From: Yasuko herron

8a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Question
From: ncrnrgrl
8b. Re: {Raw Feeding} Question
From: Yasuko herron

9a. Re: throwing up deer meat
From: Sherrel Leininger

10a. Re: chicken liver
From: Yasuko herron

11a. Re: Finding meat
From: Sherrel Leininger
11b. Re: Finding meat
From: Yasuko herron

12a. Re: Getting the liver down
From: Sai Simonson
12b. Re: Getting the liver down
From: Renate

13a. Re: fasting question
From: Nora Lenz

Messages
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1a. Re: the best grinders.....
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:53 pm ((PST))

Marvelous news, Michelle!

TC
Giselle

On Dec 17, 2007 7:24 PM, Michelle R <crested_dog8@yahoo.com> wrote:

> LOL Well...all the talk about grinders lately, I just have to share
> this. I have cresteds.. several hairless and very toothless cresteds. I have
> one, I swear to goodness, if she has 4 teeth in her head, shes lucky.
> Tonite, I will have you folks know she took on a duck drumstick and finished
> the whole thing. I kept checking, because usually she leaves the bigger
> pieces of bone because she hasn't been able to handle them. I guess it just
> took a while for her to figure it out, and/or build up her jaw strength to
> be able to do it, but she ate that whole leg...bone and all!!!!! My little
> toothless wolves!!!
> :-)
>
> Michelle Radcliff
> Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
> http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Duck anyone?
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:42 pm ((PST))

I know duck is usually real pricey, but, recently the little shop near where I work as had it for 99. /pound Im THRILLED my dogs LOVE duck, so they are pretty happy with me too!
It comes from Badger Farms, which is supposed to be in California, I googled it and havent come up with anything so far...but you folks In Cali, it may be a good lead on really cheap duck..dunno why its so cheap, but the meat is very nice looking and it smells fresh. On Friday (payday) Im going back and buy them out...... :-)
If anyone wants, I can get you the address information off the package and maybe you can contact the farm direct and have another link a good protein source.

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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2b. Re: Duck anyone?
Posted by: "jennifer mcfaden" cadet972@yahoo.com cadet972
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:00 pm ((PST))

I love to get the information I think my pack chicken out we did not get any deer from hunters this year. though they have taught and kill several rabbits that got into there pens this winter.

Jennifer McFaden
Free Spirit Kennel of Virginia

www.freespiritkennelofva.com

----- Original Message ----
From: Michelle R <crested_dog8@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 7:39:36 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Duck anyone?

I know duck is usually real pricey, but, recently the little shop near where I work as had it for 99. /pound Im THRILLED my dogs LOVE duck, so they are pretty happy with me too!
It comes from Badger Farms, which is supposed to be in California, I googled it and havent come up with anything so far...but you folks In Cali, it may be a good lead on really cheap duck..dunno why its so cheap, but the meat is very nice looking and it smells fresh. On Friday (payday) Im going back and buy them out...... :-)
If anyone wants, I can get you the address information off the package and maybe you can contact the farm direct and have another link a good protein source.

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocitie s.com/crested_ dog8/mengshihome .html

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2c. Re: Duck anyone?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:39 pm ((PST))

Hi,Jennifer. Do you live in VA?? I live in VA and I feed Duck too.

I got it from Giant,6lb bird. I found that the shopper sell Duck around 3dollars per pound andsame brand that I got from Giant.

Also,Asian store maybe other try to look too.That CA's Duck sounds so nicely price but when I asked about Trip to tripe.com people(based in CA),shipping fee to VA was 57 dollars by DHL.So,considering the shipping Fee,maybe grocery store end up cheaper than asking far away farm to ship it to here.

Oh,also,I think if I remember right,PA hare today might had it on site too;the whole Duck.I know they have couple of whole birds..The shipping fee from them usually be around 20 dollars for me.Not too bad.

But be careful when you feed Duck.When I fed Duck with skin as I usually do,she woke me up at 2am and did major major diarrhea.She was miserable..

I did combo meal with chicken and she did fine and next round,I did just Duck but without skin.Andnow,she can handle 2thumb fingers sized skin on meat.I don't try feeding with all skin on meat yet for her.

Just info for you from my experience in Duck feeding although your dog may do fine though.

yassy

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2d. Re: Duck anyone?
Posted by: "Michelle R" crested_dog8@yahoo.com crested_dog8
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:57 pm ((PST))

well, this is the closest I can get to the actual address. Its listed as being grown by Badger Farms, but processed by woodland farms, but no link is listed. All I can figure is perhaps one or the other, or both, went out of buisness and these are leftovers?
http://www.ansci.umn.edu/poultry/student_resources/duckco.htm

All those farms listed are inspected or approved or whatever by the U of MN...

Michelle Radcliff
Mengshi Chinese Cresteds
http://www.geocities.com/crested_dog8/mengshihome.html

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2e. Re: Duck anyone?
Posted by: "Heather" newbeginnings06@gmail.com malignstar
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:57 pm ((PST))

I get duck from Walmart for $1.39/lb I think it is. My dog has no
problems with skin either. He's tummy is so tough he eats whole meals
of organ once a week and no diarrhea but give him grains and he's a
sick dog. Both Amos and my kitty, Waverli LOVE duck. I have to make
sure I keep it on hand from now on.

Heather

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Re: pork shoulder
Posted by: "Lauren Funaiole" LFUNAIOL@SIMIVALLEY.ORG lfunaiol
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:43 pm ((PST))

Hi Jess,
The white stuff is fat and skin. It's fine for your dog and will help clean teeth. I don't worry about freezing pork as I have read that all carcasses are shipped frozen anyway. Pork ranks second to chicken in my 4 dogs' diet and they do great on it. I buy whatever is on sale: picnic roast, shoulder, cheek meat, or spare ribs and have never paid more than $0.99 a pound for it.

Lauren Funaiole

>>> "spricketysprock" <jess.hamway@gmail.com> 12/17/2007 3:56 PM >>>

So... I'm finally feeding pork, despite (irrational) fears of trich.
It's just too cheap, and red, to pass up.

My dog didn't seem to love it when I first offered it, but now he's
eagerly munching away. My question is, is all that white stuff lining
the shoulder fat or skin or something else? It looks... strange.

Also, I didn't bother to freeze it first. Do you all usually freeze
pork before feeding?
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3b. Re: pork shoulder
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:18 pm ((PST))

I have not fed ANY pork to my dogs since one of my min pin almost died of 1 bite of pork chop. It has been many years ago and I no longer remember the explaination for it but it was almost as if she was poisioned by it.

I know many people who feed the dried pigs ears. But I never have.

But you are telling me it is ok to feed raw pork???

Sherrel (gulp)

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3c. Re: pork shoulder
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:39 pm ((PST))

>you are telling me it is ok to feed raw pork???

Yes,dogs are fine with raw pork.Mine love pork.Just don't feed tiny Pork chop bone.It is too small and sharp edge and not good one to give.

You maybe wondering about hmm,I cannot spell but parasite thing right? If pork comes within US,you are fine.No need to freeze too.

and, I don't feed Cow ear or pork ear treats,they are too fatty.

I feed Lamb ear,much softer and easy on tum and less fat and my dog go nuts when I use it as Find it game reward.

yassy

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4a. Because you all will understand my glee
Posted by: "Kathie Middlemiss" geekgirl717@gmail.com katjermid
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:43 pm ((PST))

... at picking up 120 pounds of chicken leg quarters for $68.00!!

I also got three huge beef hearts for $8.50 and some pork kidney.

Roughly 21 days of food for my three dogs for under $100!

My non raw-feeding friends (everyone I know ;-/ ) don't understand why
this should make me happy when they can pick up a 50 pound bag of beef
flavored cardboard chips for $39.95.

Kathie, mom to Jake, Max and Ruby

Messages in this topic (2)
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4b. I do understand!
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:19 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Kathie Middlemiss
<geekgirl717@...> wrote:
>
> ... at picking up 120 pounds of chicken leg quarters for $68.00!!
>
> I also got three huge beef hearts for $8.50 and some pork kidney.
>
> Roughly 21 days of food for my three dogs for under $100!
>
> My non raw-feeding friends (everyone I know ;-/ ) don't understand
why
> this should make me happy when they can pick up a 50 pound bag of
beef
> flavored cardboard chips for $39.95.
>
> Kathie, mom to Jake, Max and Ruby
>

I love a bargain!

Doing the math, it seems that this should be a good argument for the
economics of raw feeding.

Gotta wonder how long that cardboard lasts...

Nice score, Kathie!

Wendy, grocery store hunter

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: Almost raw for humans
Posted by: "SLib700@aol.com" SLib700@aol.com annettedeutsch
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:43 pm ((PST))

Hey where I'm from we love our Beef Tartar ;)
Annette.

**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

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6.1. Re: New to this list
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:43 pm ((PST))

Thanks,

But can someone explain "prey model diet".

My girls are already shiny and muscled but I am looking forward to seeing the changes happen.

I am not very good with numbers how do I know 80 - 10 - 10 % is acheived? I have begun feeding some raw but have not gone compeletely raw. Still have to feed up the cooked that I have made up. But the girls are thinking they can live with real, raw meat.

We are kidding about it making them aggressive Right?

Sherrel

Hi Sherrel,

I have fed two dobie girls a prey model diet for quite a long time now. Both have done wonderful on the diet. We go to our local dog park quite a bit, and my dobies are always the leanest, shiniest, and most muscular of the dobermans that come to the park. I feed the diet recommended by this list: 80% meat, 10% edible bone, and 10% organ meat. It's simple, convenient, natural, and the dogs love it. My dogs eat in their crates (no pad or anything to get greasy) and they clean the floors up with their tongues when done.

Feed raw, you won't regret it!

Lauren Funaiole

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6.2. Re: New to this list
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:08 pm ((PST))

Sherrel,

Prey model simply means feeding according to the natural prey of a
carnivore, mainly large ungulates....deer, elk, moose, etc. Don't worry too
much about the numbers...just feed lots of red meat, a little edible bone
and organs and they will be fine.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Sherrel Leininger" <meawolf50@yahoo.com>

> But can someone explain "prey model diet".
>
> My girls are already shiny and muscled but I am looking forward to seeing
the changes happen.
>
> I am not very good with numbers how do I know 80 - 10 - 10 % is acheived?
I have begun feeding some raw but have not gone compeletely raw. Still have
to feed up the cooked that I have made up. But the girls are thinking they
can live with real, raw meat.

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7a. Re: Looking for peoples experience
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:43 pm ((PST))

> Gave my dogs each a huge cow tongue, along with sheep heart, and pig
> trotter for the meal last Sunday. Ate the heart - easy peasy, grabbed
> the tongue and took outside for a good workout. Came back inside, got
> the pig trotter, back outside and then one of the dogs put his trotter
> down, rolled onto his back, kicked his legs in the air and seemed to
> shout for joy 'hey this is the life man' and proceeded to do that for a
> few minutes before nibbling for a bit on the trotter and then walking
> away from it. The others followed suit - a few very satisfied dogs with
> full bellies that night (and trotters to finish off another time). It
> was a joy to see....

> Sue C, NZ

That sounds like my lot.
I keep trying to tell them that they don't realize how lucky they are. They get all these
cool foods and get to gnaw away on the best bones in the land.
Meal times for my guys can be anything and everything. They never know what they are
going to get but they always think I bring home the best food ever. The great white
hunter thing an'all.

Never had a problem either to answer the original posters questions.
Pro's: Happy healthy dogs with no problems.
Cons: Buying freezers. Electric bills. Tracking down meat deals. Hoping CSI doesn't
come in here with a blue light or luminol.

Merril

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: Looking for peoples experience
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:01 pm ((PST))

>Cons: Buying freezers. Electric bills

Hi.I too bought freezer but it really convenient and useful to stock up what I liketo feed and I just stock up when things are out of stock and i do not buy things all of the time.That is pro for me although I bought freezer.

As for Electric bill,mine got 10-20 dollars more than before but not so much.My freezeris upright freezer and it hasEnergy star on it so,it is not using as much power as normal one does. so,good to try looking for freezer with the mark on it.

yassy

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8a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Question
Posted by: "ncrnrgrl" jcraver1@nc.rr.com ncrnrgrl
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:43 pm ((PST))

Hi Brandi,
I order frequently from a place in Tennesee and a place in PA. I have
the same problem with beef here and finding a variety of organs, I
don't feed a lot of organ meat (maybe once or twice a week), but
struggle finding different organs.. so I order. I've never had a
problem.

Hare-Today.com sells beef heart nicely cut into ~2 x 6" strips, I
actually give it to my dogs right out of the freezer (heart-sicles!)
like treats and also has beef trim that comes the same way.

I get Bison Liver and pork brains from Prey4Pets.com - all of their
stuff has arrived well frozen. I get whole prey from them too - whole
chickens and sometimes quail.

Paying for shipping sucks, but still worth it in my book.
Jen C.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm having problems finding a variety of meats - beef here is very
expensive
> - I can't find anything beef wise for under $2.00/lb - pork, turkey
and
> chicken are they only really protein that I can get a hold of. I
can get
> lamb, duck if I want pay big bucks... my question is this.. how
many have
> your meats shipped into you from out of town or out of state? Do
you have
> success with it? I still have some googling to do about seeing if
I can get
> meat shipped to me from maybe Tulsa or Oklahoma City...
>
> I read from another post about Green Tripe - I looked on the
website that
> Chris gave and wondered if I order from them will the meat be
alright
> shipped from California to Oklahoma?
>
> Thank you!!!
> --
> Brandi
> Bartlesville, Ok
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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8b. Re: {Raw Feeding} Question
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:00 pm ((PST))

>I get Bison Liver and pork brains from Prey4Pets.com - all of their
stuff has arrived well frozen.

I ordered Buffalo and some pork from there in KY in July or so;during summer but all meat arrived room temp or little warm... It took 2 days from KY to VA if I remember right.
They don't use Gelpak so,I recommend if you live more than 1 day shipping area,try order in cold month no summer time.

That way,meat will be still froszen or cold.

I never order in summer I decided.

yassy

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9a. Re: throwing up deer meat
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:43 pm ((PST))

Hi All,
I've been feeding raw for a few years but just recently trying to broaden my GR's exposure
to other meats. She eats mostly chicken, turkey and fish now so I am looking forward to
adding pork, beef, etc. I gave her some deer meat from a friends hunting leftovers and she
ate it up right away. Unfortunately, about 2 hours later she threw up about 3 different times
****I have wondered the same thing. One of the first raw meat meals I fed one of my girls threw up. Don't know which one it was. But it did cause a question to come to mind. When introducing a new meat they have never had should it be done in small doses. Like a mostly chicken meal with a venison bone with a small amout of meat on it. So it does not shock their systems. Or does it not work that way.

Sherrel, Daisy and Lilly

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10a. Re: chicken liver
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:49 pm ((PST))

Try mix with raw Egg Or Tripe. My dog worked with Raw egg.
If I feed Pork liver as is,shegoing to leave the piece in bowl but if it were mixed with raw Egg,she gubble it up and not noticing it was there,lol.

yassy

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11a. Re: Finding meat
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:00 pm ((PST))

Hi Sherrel,

I buy my meat at local grocery stores.

I was thinking of trying the local butchers. Like the places people take their beef and deer for cutting a packing for the freezer. To see what they have for free first, then go from there.
I did buy some whole tipialia (most likely mispelled) today at Wally mart, 2 whole fist for 2.98. I seemed like a good price to me so I got one pack.

Also do any of you who feed whole rabbits have problems with worms in your dogs? I know people who's dogs catch and eat rabbits have this problem.

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11b. Re: Finding meat
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:19 pm ((PST))

>Also do any of you who feed whole rabbits have problems with worms in your dogs?

I bought a whole rabbit before and cut up to portion just like I do for birds since itwas my dog's first try.

Well, she ate it ok for first couple of times but second round on,my dog did strike on me not to eat rabbit and if she bit it,then,she makes such adisgusting face and I pulled it from her menu afterall. She still get variety from other kinds so,that isfine with me.

I know some dogs love rabbit but mine wasn't. So, it looks like hit or miss protin kind.
But,no,my dog did not get worm from eating rabbit at all.She is fine.

Also,she tried tilapia too when first round on fish but after eating it ..maybe like 2 hours..she got whiny andkeep ringing the Gottago bell till I come down and ready to out and as soon as she gets lawn area,she did very bright green loose poo puddle.I mean,color was very very bright green.After that,everysome minutes after,she took me to potty outside and did loose poo again and I kept doing butt-wash in bath tub on that day and she was miserable.I think I fed new thing too much.I was afraid to see the green poo again and,I read that many dog gets throw up the tilapia or loose poo etc in list so,it maybe ok but I kind of shy away from it and feed other fish. Mine torelate perch,flounder,Sword fish etc very good.

She loooves shark(when I got,I got just 2 fillet,and I regret it.I should have gotten more..it was 1 dollar per fillet.not bad price and she loved it so...I like to get it again when I find it again.Must be seasonal thing...) ,by the way.

yassy

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12a. Re: Getting the liver down
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:01 pm ((PST))

Have to laugh, Tasha would not touch the liver (beef)for the longest
time tonight. I gave her pal his share and he said thank you! I kept
offering the liver to Tasha threatening not to give her the steak and
the turkey wing. She finally gave in after much dropping it on the floor.

Sai

Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:45 pm (PST)
I held the pork neck in my hand and tried the "if
you eat this, you get that" but it didn't work.

@@@@ and I say my dog is smart because that works... I suppose he is
actually 'gullible' and YOUR dog is the brainiac ! ;-))

Liver is an issue that for some dogs, resolves itself easily, for others you
almost have to take a university course to figure out how to get that slimy
stuff down their gullet.. ;-))
--
*~~ SaiCzarina*

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12b. Re: Getting the liver down
Posted by: "Renate" renate.tideswell@gmail.com tideswell_renate
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:18 pm ((PST))

mine like kidney a lot more than liver, though they actually love both
Renate

On Dec 17, 2007 8:59 PM, Sai Simonson <saiczarina@comcast.net> wrote:

> Have to laugh, Tasha would not touch the liver (beef)for the longest
> time tonight. I gave her pal his share and he said thank you! I kept
> offering the liver to Tasha threatening not to give her the steak and
> the turkey wing. She finally gave in after much dropping it on the floor.
>
> Sai
>
> P
>

--
Renate
'The more I learn about men, the more I love my Shih Tzu'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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13a. Re: fasting question
Posted by: "Nora Lenz" nmlenz@speakeasy.net rawnora
Date: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:57 pm ((PST))

Routine fasting is in fact good and healthful for dogs; it replicates
the unpredictable feeding patterns of wild dogs. Dogs in the wild
don't always have the chance to "gorge" but they do eat on a very
irregular schedule, typically going a day or even a few days between
meals. What this means is that the size of the meals you feed should
not be the determining factor. Routine fasting is always what is best
for the dog physiologically, but the owner's level of comfort is what
determines whether it will happen. To that end, I highly recommend
reading one of the great books about fasting, and perhaps trying it
yourself. The best one I've read is, "Fasting Can Save Your Life" by
Herbert Shelton.

Fasting clears up symptoms quickly, and there are very few exceptions
to the rule that fasting is the quickest and most reliable route to
wellness if your dog is symptomatic. Fasting allows the body to
re-direct its resources to healing and cleansing rather than to the
energy-consuming task of digesting food.

I wrote an article for "Living Nutrition" magazine a few years ago
about fasting dogs that I'd be happy to forward privately to anyone
who is interested.

Best wishes,
Nora
nmlenz@speakeasy.net
www.RawSchool.com

Messages in this topic (4)
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