[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12068

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
From: heathermcpher822
1b. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
From: Sandee Lee
1c. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
From: Loraine Jesse
1d. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
From: Sandee Lee

2a. It Worked!! Tripe/Liver Mixture Consumed by Picky Toy Poodle
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)
2b. Re: It Worked!! Tripe/Liver Mixture Consumed by Picky Toy Poodle
From: pelle567
2c. Re: It Worked!! Tripe/Liver Mixture Consumed by Picky Toy Poodle
From: tottime47

3a. Re: Allergy question
From: Casey Post
3b. Re: Allergy question
From: Sonja

4. Hello-I'm New Intro
From: M Williams

5a. Re: Deer legs ok?
From: katkellm
5b. Re: Deer legs ok?
From: Scott Baker

6a. One dog is progressing, the other is regressing
From: steph.sorensen
6b. Re: One dog is progressing, the other is regressing
From: tottime47

7a. Re: Tongue
From: Alan & Andrea Southern

8.1. new to group
From: Lamar Vaughan

9a. Re: Feeding Heads
From: Scott Baker
9b. Re: Feeding Heads
From: Sandee Lee
9c. Re: Feeding Heads
From: katkellm

10. Deer Antlers
From: Shannon Hully

11a. Re: Cleaner teeth!
From: Cdandp2@aol.com

12a. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Jen Dudley
12b. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: vickies_28

13a. Re: HELP PLEASE? AVOCADO PIT :(((
From: Cdandp2@aol.com

14a. Re: Feeding once a day
From: tobyfogle

Messages
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1a. Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
Posted by: "heathermcpher822" heathermcpher822@yahoo.ca heathermcpher822
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:18 pm ((PDT))

HI All I am new to the group we have a Lab currently raw fed and now a
brand new ( 7 weeks old) Saint puppy.
I have no idea how to make sure he is getting all the nutrition he
needs as a growing pup -- we switched our Lab at about 10 months.
can any one suggest serving sizes or menus?
right now he weights about 22 lbs

Thanks alot.
Heather

Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:37 pm ((PDT))

Heather,

Lots of meat, lots of variety, lots of food! :)) Seriously, just feed him
a good varied diet using the same ratios you do for your other
dog....assuming you are feeding prey model (up to 80% meat, 10% bone, 10%
organs). Figure about 2-3% of his expected adult weight per day.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "heathermcpher822" <heathermcpher822@yahoo.ca>

HI All I am new to the group we have a Lab currently raw fed and now a
brand new ( 7 weeks old) Saint puppy.
I have no idea how to make sure he is getting all the nutrition he
needs as a growing pup -- we switched our Lab at about 10 months.
can any one suggest serving sizes or menus?
right now he weights about 22 lbs

Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

Sandy,
With feeding 80% meat and only 10 % bone on a large breed, will there be enough natural calcuim?
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

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Messages in this topic (4)
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1d. Re: Feeding a large breed ( Saint ) puppy
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:39 pm ((PDT))

Absolutely!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Loraine Jesse" <rothburg@hotmail.com>
> Sandy,
> With feeding 80% meat and only 10 % bone on a large breed, will there be
enough natural calcuim?

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. It Worked!! Tripe/Liver Mixture Consumed by Picky Toy Poodle
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:32 pm ((PDT))

Well - after years of trying any number of things to get this very
opinionated Poodle to eat raw liver, I finally got my hands on some
stinky-oh green tripe. I pureed a bunch of chicken livers and mixed them
in the with tripe (small batch first, as suggested - very helpful). I
kept the mixture heavy on tripe and light on liver, the better to
deceive Miss Prim, aka Molly Anne Malolly, Picky Toy Poodle
Extraordinaire, She of the Picky Appetite, She Who Babysits Her Food for
Days.

I put the mixture on her little pink poodle plate. She devoured it!
Inhaled it! Consumed it in toto!! Asked for more! I was leaping about
the house like some kind of crazed gazelle, shrieking with joy (so much
for subtlety). Molly ate raw liver! Molly ate raw liver! Molly ATE RAW
LIVER!!!

Of course, now that tripe mixture is all she wants.

Carolyn J. Garnaas and Molly Anne Malolly, She Who Must be Fed

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Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: It Worked!! Tripe/Liver Mixture Consumed by Picky Toy Poodle
Posted by: "pelle567" krjoyner@firstam.com pelle567
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

LOL...

P.S. My dogs HATE chicken liver...all other liver is muy bueno.

Katie

Messages in this topic (3)
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2c. Re: It Worked!! Tripe/Liver Mixture Consumed by Picky Toy Poodle
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:21 pm ((PDT))

Hehehehe! Sounds like you finally got the upper hand, lol.

P/S Charkee says if he ever sees Molly, he's telling!

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)"
<carolyn.garnaas@...> wrote:
I
> kept the mixture heavy on tripe and light on liver,
> I put the mixture on her little pink poodle plate. She devoured it!
> Inhaled it! I was leaping about
> the house like some kind of crazed gazelle, shrieking with joy (so
much
> for subtlety). Molly ate raw liver! Molly ate raw liver! Molly ATE RAW
> LIVER!!!
>
> Of course, now that tripe mixture is all she wants.
>
> Carolyn J. Garnaas and Molly Anne Malolly, She Who Must be Fed

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: Allergy question
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:41 pm ((PDT))

> This is probably a really stupid question, but if a dog is allergic to
> chicken, would it also be allergic to turkey and duck?

Nope. Completely different critters!

Casey

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Allergy question
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

No, a dog that is allergic to chicken won't be allergic to turkey and duck unless they are unlucky and specifically allergic to turkey, duck, and chicken. My dog has major allergy symptoms when she eats chicken, but she handles both turkey and duck beautifully.

My understanding is that turkey and duck are completely different proteins.

Just to add a bit, from what I read here, cornish game hens are just small chickens, so a dog that is allergic to chicken will also be allergic to cornish game hen. If I am wrong, anyone feel free to correct me.

Sonja

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Messages in this topic (3)
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4. Hello-I'm New Intro
Posted by: "M Williams" twilli55@tampabay.rr.com mtm1will
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

I am new to the group as of today. I have 2 yellow labs, one that is 2 yrs (probably close to 100 lbs) and the other is 1 year (around 65 lbs). We live in Florida (needless to say it's too hot to give them a lot of exercise a lot of the time) and they are both pretty healthy. My youngest had some itchiness but since switching to a wheat-free kibble it's been much less. He is pretty small and seems to be more sensative to foods than my big guy. I've always fed them "high quality" kibble (as far as the quality of "kibble" is concerned) with some raw being a bit of meat, egg, etc...thrown in with their food. Not every day but they've gotten where they don't like "unflavored" kibble so I put something on it every day. I give them fruit for a snack once in a while or organic chicken strips or other organic treats. I love the idea of feeding raw but the only place around here to get good organic meat is at an organic store and it's very expensive or even at the grocery store it's expensive. I really don't want to give them commercial meat with added antibiotics/hormones/etc so i've not went totally raw because of price and because of lack of knowledge really. Just to start, I have a couple questions. When you're talking diet, I know that kibble is by far not desirable and not what dogs were meant to eat all the time. As far as real food goes, what is the difference in quality of life between a home cooked meal diet, or raw food diet or even a combination of kibble and one of the two if completely raw is not affordable? I assume that completely raw is by far to produce the best quality of life but does any bit help I guess is what I mean.) I'm very confused on this with all the reading i've done. Also, if you feed raw I don't think the "bacteria" is a problem for the dogs however what about if after they eat they are licking on your childrens face? My youngest is a MESSY eater and after dinner always has food all over his mouth--I always end up with "nasty clothes" as he tends to use me as a "napkin" :-) Just a few intro questions and thanks for any help you can give and confusion to clear up.

Marci

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Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: Deer legs ok?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi Dianna,
When i feed deer or cow legs, i let my dogs strip off the hide and all
that grizzly/connective stuff -sorry, don't know what its called- and
when the bone is stripped naked, i throw them out. Actually when
they are bare, mine don't mess with them anymore, but just in case
yours do, i would just watch and remove. I think the lower legs when
feed as is make a great fun chewing workout, not necessarily a meal,
and i would take them. As for the organs, i'd for sure take the
heart and liver. Except for the intestines, i'd take all the insides
and let your dog decide what you take from the next deer. JMO, KathyM

Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. Re: Deer legs ok?
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:16 pm ((PDT))

Yeah, I Feed my Bullmastiff Deer legs when i get them. As stated above, they
make great chew exercises.

heres a skinless leg. lots of meat to chew on
http://scottsite.ca/images/Bullies/Dec12/Dec12.JPG
http://scottsite.ca/images/Bullies/Dec12/Dec121.JPG
http://scottsite.ca/images/Bullies/Dec12/dec122.JPG
and when i took it away
http://scottsite.ca/images/Bullies/Dec12/Dec123.JPG

and one tired out pup!
http://scottsite.ca/images/Bullies/Dec12/Dec124.JPG

On 9/24/07, katkellm <katkellm@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Dianna,
> When i feed deer or cow legs, i let my dogs strip off the hide and all
> that grizzly/connective stuff -sorry, don't know what its called- and
> when the bone is stripped naked, i throw them out. Actually when
> they are bare, mine don't mess with them anymore, but just in case
> yours do, i would just watch and remove. I think the lower legs when
> feed as is make a great fun chewing workout, not necessarily a meal,
> and i would take them. As for the organs, i'd for sure take the
> heart and liver. Except for the intestines, i'd take all the insides
> and let your dog decide what you take from the next deer. JMO, KathyM
>
>
>
>

--
Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. One dog is progressing, the other is regressing
Posted by: "steph.sorensen" steph.sorensen@yahoo.com steph.sorensen
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

Well, I've got my pit bull totally on board. She is my trash
compactor. She's never had a problem eating anything I point to and
say "Eat that." My lab however, is a different story.

She is the one that doesn't like raw liver, doesn't like cooked
liver, and used to like liver treats until she tried raw and cooked
liver and made the connection of it being the same meat. I think it
may partially be because I fed her a piece right after she ate a half
chicken, and about 10 seconds after consuming it, she threw up the
whole meal. I know I don't want to eat a certain food if I've gotten
sick eating it before.

I just introduced fish this evening, and, the same thing happened.
Scarlet took it to her place in the yard and started crunching it
down, while Lucy sniffed it, took it, dropped it, and walked away.
She isn't remotely interested in fish!

I know that is okay, but now she isn't eating the fish capsules
either! Has anyone else had a dog do this? She eats less variety
now than when she started!

Steph
Scarlet, Lucy, and Minkey (the kitty)

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: One dog is progressing, the other is regressing
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:33 pm ((PDT))

Hi Steph,

I have what could be considered a picky eater too..
He will eat goat for several days and then decide he doesn't
like it anymore...today I fed rabbit chunks with fur and some organs.
Last time I fed that (several weeks ago) he acted like he was going
to vomit from the smell, today he tried to swallow it whole and
actually barked for seconds, lol (didn't get them)

What I think is they are more in tune with their bodies and need
certain proteins and go after the food that gives it to them. I can't
figure out any other reason why mine would
eat liver and next time refuse it, then a week later wolf it once
again!

It sure makes it challenging trying to find different meats for him,
but it's also worth it!

Carol, Charkee (Mr Picky) & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "steph.sorensen"
<steph.sorensen@...> wrote:
>
> Well, I've got my pit bull totally on board. She is my trash
> compactor. She's never had a problem eating anything I point to
and
> say "Eat that." My lab however, is a different story.

> I just introduced fish this evening, and, the same thing happened.
Lucy sniffed it, took it, dropped it, and walked away.
> She isn't remotely interested in fish!
>
> I know that is okay, but now she isn't eating the fish capsules
> either! Has anyone else had a dog do this?
> Scarlet, Lucy, and Minkey (the kitty)

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: Tongue
Posted by: "Alan & Andrea Southern" wykham@sa.chariot.net.au seawyndriana
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

I feed whole sheep tongues to our cats every week and the poodles get them as well. I have a permanent order with the butcher for 15 hearts and 15 tongues--- $15.00 for the lot.

Alan & Andrea
KITNKABOODLE BURMESE
WYKHAM BRITISH SHORTHAIR
QUINIVA STANDARD POODLES
http://users.chariot.net.au/~wykham
Aldinga Beach
South Australia
Australia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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8.1. new to group
Posted by: "Lamar Vaughan" jlamarvaughan@hotmail.com lamar.vaughan
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:31 pm ((PDT))

*** Mod Note: please sign your posts! ***

Hey guys. I am still trying to learn as much as possible about raw feeding. I have a 5 month old boxer and really moving towards raw feeding him. Should I gradually introduce him to raw meat or make a complete change in his diet? Will it effect him if I make this sudden change? Also I would like to know if I should serve his meat to him cold or room temperature?
Thanks for taking time to read my questions and I am looking forward to hearing from some of you vets out there!
Thanx- Good health to all pets!
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Messages in this topic (55)
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9a. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "Scott Baker" scottsbaker@gmail.com scottpsbaker
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:16 pm ((PDT))

To those that feed whole heads, what do you do with the heads between
feedings? do you just leave them in the yard?

I had a cow head I fed a while back and after a few days the flys/maggots
pretty much took it over. Im not too worried about the odd one, but I'd
rather the whole meal not be maggots. Suggestions?

--
Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (12)
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9b. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:40 pm ((PDT))

I generally feed them in the winter and leave them outside.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Scott Baker" <scottsbaker@gmail.com>

> To those that feed whole heads, what do you do with the heads between
> feedings? do you just leave them in the yard?

Messages in this topic (12)
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9c. Re: Feeding Heads
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:33 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Baker" <scottsbaker@...> wrote:
>
> To those that feed whole heads, what do you do with the heads between
> feedings? do you just leave them in the yard?

Hi Scott,
I live in a rural area a couple hours from Chicago, so when the flies
disappear, maybe late Oct. until the end of April, i just leave mine
down. I don't feed heads the rest of the year because i only have one
fridge, and my dh and wonderful son are not excepting of the idea of
having them in there. So, i guess part of your answer depends on the
folks you live with. If you live where it gets cold and can
leave them down i would recommend doing so because the dogs get to
dine whenever they want and how ever long they want. Mine love it.
KathyM

Messages in this topic (12)
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10. Deer Antlers
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:16 pm ((PDT))

Hey, I was just checking out a company that sells pieces of deer antler
as a dog chew toy. I was wondering if these constitute "wreak bones"
(I know they're not bones) or if they're considered ok. I am asking
on behalf of a 70(ish)lb Greyhound who's not terribly into toys as a
rule. I want to find something he'll enjoy and I was wondering if
these would qualify as something good to give him?

Shannon H.

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Re: Cleaner teeth!
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:16 pm ((PDT))

Spencer also had miserable teeth and gums when I got him almost 2 years ago.
The vet was all over me to get the dental done, but with the heartworms I
was reluctant. He's been on raw for almost 5 maybe 6 months and his teeth
look gorgeous (well, maybe not gorgeous given they're all crooked and half
broken and beat up and some are missing) but the ones that are in there are white
and clean and his gums pink and fresh looking.

Question though...doesn't Lonsdale advocate for a dental after the switch to
address underlying gum disease from history of kibble and bad food? Does
gum disease ever resolve on it's own, or do you have to treat it even after the
teeth look cleaner?

Carol for Spencer

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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12a. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Jen Dudley" jend404@yahoo.com jend404
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:17 pm ((PDT))

Vicki,

Do you have a positive diagnosis for cancer in the new
puppy? I don't know much about dog metabolism and
feeding - I am still learning, but I do know quite a
bit about tracking disease vs. population density (in
humans). I am assuming your dogs are unrelated?? Two
young animals with cancer in the same household raises
pathogen red flags all over the place. Perhaps those
that know more about dogs will say I am over-reacting
but I don't know.

If you have had two unrelated puppies contract cancer
so young and close together you MUST look in to your
environment. Ask your neighbors if they have dogs with
cancer. Find out how many, etc, etc. Your own health
may depend on it. What kind of cancer? Is it the same
as the first puppy. Look up what is known to cause
that kind of cancer and it may give you a clue where
to start looking. Is it possible they are chewing on
something they shouldn't like paint cans?

Start with home environment (chewables), water, soil,
air pollutants, etc. If you truly suspect the food
then I would look in to where you buy the meat for the
dogs. Where do the feed animals come from? Where do
they graze. Where is the packing and butchering done?

that is what I would do.
Jennifer Dudley

____________________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (15)
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12b. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:33 pm ((PDT))

Hi Jen

The puppies are related but very distantly. I thougth the same thing
as you did about the house and stuff. Puppies just don't get it that
young and that violent and strange form. I have nothing in the house
that a puppy can chew on that is not safe, only dog toys, bones and
raw hide from the pet store. Dogs never run around unattended. So all
I can suspect is food and/or water or cheimicals I use to clean the
floor.

About meat, where it comes from - no idea and never will be able to
find out. It's a big supermarket chain. I don''t eat it myself, I buy
my meat form an organic store, but cannot really afford to do it for
the dog, it's $7/lbs and up.

Vickie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Jen Dudley <jend404@...> wrote:
>
> Vicki,
>
> Do you have a positive diagnosis for cancer in the new
> puppy? I don't know much about dog metabolism and
> feeding - I am still learning, but I do know quite a
> bit about tracking disease vs. population density (in
> humans). I am assuming your dogs are unrelated?? Two
> young animals with cancer in the same household raises
> pathogen red flags all over the place. Perhaps those
> that know more about dogs will say I am over-reacting
> but I don't know.
>
> If you have had two unrelated puppies contract cancer
> so young and close together you MUST look in to your
> environment. Ask your neighbors if they have dogs with
> cancer. Find out how many, etc, etc. Your own health
> may depend on it. What kind of cancer? Is it the same
> as the first puppy. Look up what is known to cause
> that kind of cancer and it may give you a clue where
> to start looking. Is it possible they are chewing on
> something they shouldn't like paint cans?
>
> Start with home environment (chewables), water, soil,
> air pollutants, etc. If you truly suspect the food
> then I would look in to where you buy the meat for the
> dogs. Where do the feed animals come from? Where do
> they graze. Where is the packing and butchering done?
>
> that is what I would do.
> Jennifer Dudley
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?
fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
>

Messages in this topic (15)
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13a. Re: HELP PLEASE? AVOCADO PIT :(((
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:17 pm ((PDT))

Penny,

Thank you for the encouragement. These stories have been MOST helpful. So
far so good here in urban avocado land. The little guy seems fine.

Carol for Spencer

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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14a. Re: Feeding once a day
Posted by: "tobyfogle" eafog@msn.com tobyfogle
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:32 pm ((PDT))

Hi Melissa:

Good for you for starting raw. Feeding once or twice a day is up to
you and what works best for you and the dog. I have an 18 month old
Golden and I feed twice a day because he's always "asking" for food. I
still feed the recommended daily amount, but divided in two. So, I
think what's more important is the daily amount and whether you give it
once or divide it in two is up to you. Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "joeysocgirl" <joeysocgirl@...>
wrote:
>
>
> should start feeding him twice a day. Which I don't believe there is
a
> good reason to. I would really like any opinions on this, It will
> really help me out alot. I really enjoy reading what everyone has to
> say about different post and try to improve on my knowledge on raw.
> Thanks,
>
> Melissa
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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