[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12065

There are 8 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Hambuger meat
From: Ellen McChesney

2.1. Re: newbie
From: Giselle

3a. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Daisy Foxworth
3b. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Giselle

4a. Re: geriatric dogs
From: Ellen McChesney

5a. Newbie to Raw
From: Kathie Middlemiss
5b. Re: Newbie to Raw
From: Giselle

6a. Re: Revisiting the 2-percent rule to help with weight loss
From: Giselle

Messages
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1a. Re: {Raw Feeding} Hambuger meat
Posted by: "Ellen McChesney" hdmom74@yahoo.com hdmom74
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:45 am ((PDT))

i use hamburger meet to feed, i just add chicken necks or backs to the meal

cujo1012 <knuj101@cinci.rr.com> wrote: I freeze on sale hamburger in small containers, enough to fill 6
Kongs. Then thaw one container to put in kongs & refreeze for a
treat.

Darla & two furkids

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Brandi Bryant" <bbryant573@...>
wrote:
>
> I bought expired hamburger meat that had been markdown "for quick
> sale" with a intend to fix it for myself...well now it's brown:(
>
> It's 80% lean, can I feed it to the dogs along with their other
meals?
> I think someone said that it was just a filler? But I hate for
it to
> go to waste...
>
> --
> Brandi
> Bartlesville, Ok
> www.obediencetrainingclubofbartlesville.com
>

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (5)
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2.1. Re: newbie
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:49 am ((PDT))

Hi!
Nope! Dogs is wolves and wolves is carnivores!
wiki says, in part;
DOG
Conservation status
Domesticated
Scientific classification
Domain: Eukaryota
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Canidae
Genus: Canis
Species: C. lupus
Subspecies: C. l. familiaris
Trinomial name
Canis lupus familiaris

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog

Wolf ancestors

Although all wolves belong to the species Canis lupus, there are (or
were) many subspecies that had developed a distinctive appearance,
social structure, and other traits. For example, the Japanese Wolf and
the Eastern Timber Wolf possess different distinctive coloration,
hunting and social structures. The origin of the dog is so ancient and
so worldwide that many varieties of wolf played a part in it. It is
wrong to say that dogs descended from modern wolves. They descended
from ancestral wolves, and this difference must always be kept in
mind. Ancestral wolves of many varieties existed all over the world.

The Indian Wolf is thought to have contributed to the development of
more breeds of dogs than other subspecies. Many of today's wild dogs,
such as the dingo and the pariah dogs, are descended from this wolf.
The Indian Wolf is also thought to have bred with descendants of the
European wolf to create the Mastiffs and eventually leading to the
development of such diverse breeds as the Pug, the Saint Bernard, and
the Bloodhound. The Tibetan Mastiff is an example of an ancient breed.

The European wolf, in turn, may have contributed many of its
attributes to the Spitz dog types, most terriers, and many of today's
sheepdogs. The Chinese wolf is probably ancestor to the Pekingese and
toy spaniels, although it is also probable that descendants of the
Chinese and European wolves encountered each other over the millennia,
contributing to many of the oriental toy breeds.

The Eastern Timber Wolf is a direct ancestor to most, if not all, of
the North American northern sled dog types. This interbreeding still
occurs with dogs living in the Arctic region, where the attributes of
the wolf that enable survival in a hostile environment are valued by
humans. Additionally, unintentional crossbreeding occurs simply
because dogs and wolves live in the same environment. The general
reproductive isolation which is required to define dogs and wolves as
separate species is purely a result of lack of opportunity, stemming
from a general mutual unfamiliarity, suspicion, mistrust, and fear.

The phenotypic characteristics that distinguish a wolf from a dog are
tenuous. Wolves typically have a "brush tail" and erect ears. While
some dog breeds possess one of these characteristics, they rarely
possess both.

WOLF
Conservation status

Least Concern [1]
Scientific classification
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Canidae
Genus: Canis
Species: C. lupus
Binomial name
Canis lupus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf

The Gray Wolf (Canis lupus), also known as the Timber Wolf or, simply,
Wolf, is a mammal of the order Carnivora. The Gray Wolf is the largest
member of the genus Canis. Its shoulder height ranges from 0.6 to 0.9
meters (26â€"36 inches) and its weight typically varies between 32 and
62 kilograms (70â€"135 pounds). As evidenced by DNA sequencing and
genetic drift studies, the gray wolf shares a common ancestry with the
domestic dog (Canis lupus familiaris). [2]

Relation to the dog

Much debate has centered on the relationship between the wolf and the
domestic dog, though most authorities see the wolf as the dog's direct
ancestor. Others postulate that dogs descend from the Golden Jackal.
Because the canids have evolved recently and different canids
interbreed readily, untangling the true relationships has been difficult.

**** But molecular systematics now indicate very strongly that
domestic dogs and wolves are more closely related than either is to
any other canid, and the domestic dog is now normally classified as a
subspecies of the wolf: Canis lupus familiaris. ****

The main differences between wolves and domestic dogs are that wolves
have, on average, 20% larger brains, better immune systems, a better
sense of smell, and are generally much larger than domestic dogs.[4

Just because they can eat something, doesn't make it nourishing.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> > I thought that dogs were omnivores so they can eat both meat and
> plant based foods?
> > Help?
> >
> > Liz,

Messages in this topic (50)
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3a. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Daisy Foxworth" daisyfoxworth@yahoo.com daisyfoxworth
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:55 am ((PDT))

Vickie, it isn't possible for a young dog to get cancer by eating a
proper raw food diet. It could only help the dog. But I do
understand your concern, and I hope very much that your dog's symptoms
turn out to be something else. That is far too young to lose a
beloved pet!

Good luck, Daisy

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:25 am ((PDT))

Hi, Vickie!
I get my dog's food from a regular grocery store mostly, too.

Its a shame you don't have the support you need from family and
friends or the confidence in your own common sense to feed what you
know is best for your dog.

Hopefully, you will learn that your pup isn't ill, and that kibble is
the cr*p-in-a-bag that you know it is, and find renewed determination
to feed your pup raw.

You know, you're wrong. Your new pup is living in the same environment
that your other pup was living in. There could be several strong
adverse environmental factors affecting your pups health - chemicals
in the house and yard, inoculations, pest control treatments, etc.
There is also the genetic factor, if you have a breed with a lot of
genetic 'junk' that causes predisposition for diseases - or have
bought a pup from the same breeder, if the line has health problems.
These factors are much more overwhelmingly likely to cause disease and
illness than feeding raw.

Even your anxiety and the negativity that surrounds you and your pup
can cause you to see problems that may not be there.

TC
Giselle

> Hi All
> Thank you for all your advice here, I know you're all strong believers
> in raw.
<snip>
> I would be interested to see what you, raw veterans, have to say. I
> get my food at a regular grocery store.
>
> Vickie
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: geriatric dogs
Posted by: "Ellen McChesney" hdmom74@yahoo.com hdmom74
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:56 am ((PDT))

i just recently switched my 11yr old rottie mix and my 10yr old border collie mix to raw. They're acting like puppies again. I too was a bit concerned about their age, but they never skipped a beat, and they LOVE feeding time now, they sit anxiously in the kitchen waiting to see what new prey they have in their bowls. They've stopped the excessive shedding, they don't have that 'doggie smell' anymore.

Ellen

Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi!
You forgot to sign your name.

Nope, nothing wrong with changing her to raw, at any age!

Her whole life, she's been fed the equivalent of cereal, and probably
chastised for eating, showing interest in, or attempting to eat
'people food'.

This subject comes up frequently.
She just needs a bit of encouragement to start with.
Read through these archived messages, the suggestions should help her
get over her seeming reluctance;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/130758

Message #130758

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/134336

Message #134336

A tortise! How big is he? How old?

TC
Giselle
with Bea in new Jersey

> I have a ten year old retriever mix.
<snip>
I have concerns about
> changing her at this older age but we want to try.
> Tonight we tried a chicken thigh.
<snip>
Are there any special concerns for an older
> dog? she has great teeth. But she has been kibbleized for so long.

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Newbie to Raw
Posted by: "Kathie Middlemiss" geekgirl717@gmail.com katjermid
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:56 am ((PDT))

Hello folks!

My name is Kathie and I'm a mom to three dogs: a 6 year old
lab/something mix, a 12 week old lab/shepherd mix who we just rescued
this weekend and an 11 week old labrador.

I started raw feeding yesterday, with chicken and my two little ones
ripped into it with gusto! It was great watching them prance around the
yard with their meat, heads and tails high as if to show it off before
plunking down and just getting down and dirty.

My older dog however, is still looking at me with the "You want me to
eat what?" look on his face. He'll come around, I'm sure, but this is
day two and his half a chicken is still sitting there waiting on him.

I have to say that I started the raw diet with a little apprehension. I
always believed in the "OMG! Bones are bad!" school of thought. I
totally bought into the hype that 'formulated' dog foods are better. My
husband very keenly pointed out that baby formula companies would lead
you to believe much the same thing.

My lab pup was having very loose stools. He's been doing great on
housetraining, but at night was having loose poops in his crate. Last
night, this first night after raw feeding, there was no loose stool in
the crate. I know it could be a coincidence, but I'm not so sure.

I will have tons of questions, particularly feeding quantities. And how
to con my Jake into actually eating that chicken as I think he would
really like to get into his food.

Also, I did join the raw distributors list, but I just want to toss out
that I'm in RI, so if there's anyone in south eastern MA or Northern CT,
or RI who does raw feeding and wants to co op or something, I'd be very
interested in talking to you. We have a large chest freezer so bulk
buying is a viable option for us.

--
~Kathie Middlemiss

Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. Re: Newbie to Raw
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:35 am ((PDT))

Hi, Kathie!
Welcome to the raw side! ^_^

Your older dog has had years of eating cereal and being discouraged
from eating 'people food' to overcome. Read over these archived posts
to get some ideas on how to help him recover from his astonishment on
his great good fortune;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/130758

Message #130758

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/134336

Message #134336

Here are my recommendations for starting to feed raw;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374
post # 141374

TC and keep us current on how your nd the dogs progress!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> My name is Kathie and I'm a mom to three dogs: a 6 year old
> lab/something mix, a 12 week old lab/shepherd mix who we just rescued
> this weekend and an 11 week old Labrador.
<snip>
> I will have tons of questions, particularly feeding quantities. And
how
> to con my Jake into actually eating that chicken as I think he would
> really like to get into his food.
<snip>
> --
> ~Kathie Middlemiss
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Re: Revisiting the 2-percent rule to help with weight loss
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:06 am ((PDT))

Hi, Gemma!
What you've got to remember is that the calculation you were
given is a GUIDELINE ONLY, it isn't a hard and fast rule.

Feeding dogs isn't a science, its an act of love, and an art you have
to learn. What works for one dog, needs to be tweaked for another.

You have to feed an amount, then watch your dog for her response. You
need to adjust up, then maybe tweak down, as you see the difference it
makes in *your* dog.
Every dog is an individual, they all respond differently.

You need to look at JinJin daily, get used to running your hands over
her ribs, her backbone, her hipbones, and feeling whats there to be
felt. When she gets to an optimum weight, (for her) you will be able
to feel her ribs under a slight padding of flesh. The same with her
back and hip bones.

As her body responds to the change in nourishment that raw will give
her, you will be able to see that kibble puffiness leave her, and a
leaner dog will emerge. This is not a function of diet, it is because
prey model raw is more bioavailable and the nutrients she is getting
are more usable for her body. She may end up weighing more than you
think she should, because raw fed dogs have more muscle mass than
kibble fed dogs, but look leaner.

There will be other changes - her teeth will become cleaner, she may
have less pain and move more comfortably - she may do a complete shed
and grow a more healthy coat - her breath will be sweeter - I've even
had dogs who were gray lose some of it and regain a more youthful look.

Try not to stress about the numbers. They're just numbers after all.
TC
Giselle

> I just want to make sure I understand how to feed at 2 percent of a
> target weight to help my dog lose weight.
<snip>
> Am I doing this right?
>
> Thanks a lot,
> Gemma

Messages in this topic (2)
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