[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12066

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Itchy paws
From: Cdandp2@aol.com
1b. Re: Itchy paws
From: Sonja

2. Feeding co-op question....
From: brunoheart

3a. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: Karen Swanay
3b. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: vickies_28
3c. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: kaylsraven
3d. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: cypressbunny
3e. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
From: costrowski75

4. Avocado pit follow up
From: Cdandp2@aol.com

5a. Re: Ham
From: carolejc2007
5b. Re: Ham
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker

6a. Re: Help - Ready to quit
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker
6b. Re: Help - Ready to quit
From: Giselle

7a. Re: Revisiting the 2-percent rule to help with weight loss
From: Andrea

8a. Re: Digest Number 12064
From: tantelin22@aol.com
8b. Re: Digest Number 12064
From: Giselle

9a. Re: HELP PLEASE? AVOCADO PIT :(((
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker

10a. Re: Cleaner teeth!
From: Penny (Nickles) Parker
10b. Re: Cleaner teeth!
From: great_dane_devotee

11.1. new member
From: shara brown

12. raw feeding my Papillion
From: maneal_saros

13a. Re: geriatric dogs
From: tottime47

14a. Feeding squirrels? (was:Re: parts is parts)
From: costrowski75

15a. ADMIN/Re: Raw TREATS?
From: costrowski75

16. Hershey squirts
From: carolejc2007

Messages
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1a. Itchy paws
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:44 am ((PDT))

My guy (cocker) has all kinds of allergies including contact dermatitis that
affects his paws. When he gets going I apply a generous amount of aloe gel.
It seems to soothe the itch AND it has a slightly bitter taste so it's a
little off-putting and curbs the licking. I've also tried the lemon solution
that I found on one of these lists (soak sliced lemon in boiled water
overnight) and add lavender and that's working great.

Don't know whether this is too much "treatment" info for this list. Sorry
if I'm OT. But more and more I'm finding that other than dairy and potatoes
(which I don't feed anymore since I switched to raw) the food doesn't seem to
be the major culprit.

best to all,
Carol

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Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: Itchy paws
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:23 am ((PDT))

I've been feeding raw since May and have battled itchy paws with Kodie for about a year and a half. Her paws would be red, oozey, and on bad days, so painful she'd limp. I've tried every holistic treatment, dozens of creams, powders, homemade sprays, apple cider vinegar, I've tried washing her paws, Benedryl, you name it. Some would make the situation better, but we could never trust her alone without her e-collar (and even then, she found a way to get around it!!). Feeding raw alleviated the problem, but feeding chicken a month or so ago really made the situation worse, and nothing we were doing would heal the lesions. We took her to the vet and he prescribed a spray that made the problem even worse! I bought a spray that we've been using for the last 5 days and the lesions on her feet are healing fast and she hasn't licked them since (knock on wood!). Her paws haven't looks this good for years. I don't know if it would work this well for all dogs, but I was thinking Kodie would have to live life with painful paws. The jury is still out...I don't know what would happen if we stopped using the spray. Hopefully once it's healed, she'll leave it alone. Please contact me privately for more details if interested...

Sonja
ladyver@sbcglobal.net

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Messages in this topic (3)
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2. Feeding co-op question....
Posted by: "brunoheart" brunoheart@yahoo.com brunoheart
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:45 am ((PDT))

Hey all, I haven't posted in a while (Bruno will have been eating Raw
for a year next month and Chevy in January-so far so good) but I was
wondering if any of you belong to the MD-DE-SoPA barfers co-op. I
tried to join the list and my membership is still pending. Just
wondering if maybe the list is inactive or if the owner just doesn't
check it often. Thanks in advance.
Michelle Pape Dover,DE

Messages in this topic (1)
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3a. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "Karen Swanay" luvbullbreeds@gmail.com kswanay1111
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:45 am ((PDT))

Vickie,

I'm sorry for your loss. I wasn't aware this happened to you. Some breeds
are more prone to cancer than others and if you got poorly bred dogs that's
really all it takes. RE: raw food...the "food" used in kibble production is
laced with carcinogens and other toxic substances. It's not higher quality
than what you buy at the grocery store. I have raw fed my crew for the last
9 yrs or so. Have I had dogs with cancer? Yep. But that's the way the
dice roll. Over all (and I've had a lot of pets) my crew is happier and
healthier than they were on kibble. The biggest benefit to them all comes
from the clean teeth so they don't have bacteria washing down their throats
with every swallow, which, *I BELIEVE* is the cause of chronic renal failure
in cats and dogs. The main killer of older pets in this country. I'm not
going to beat you up for deciding to switch back to kibble but I will tell
you that there is no science to prove the raw caused cancer and there is
plenty of science to prove kibble is full of toxic stuff.

When I was a vet tech I often found people drawing correlations where they
did not exsist. For example, a dog was biting every time the owners touched
her ears when she was on the couch. Their conclusion was that something
about the couch was hurting her ears because they could touch her ears when
she was anywhere else. Well that is not true it was a behavioral issue.
The couch was something she was showing aggression about and not a health
issue. Sometimes because things happen at the same time we want to believe
they are connected, but in fact they are not. You will have to do what you
think is best of course, but switching your dogs to some highly processed
crap in a bag isn't the answer.

Just to prove this to yourself, do an on-line search for "Cancer, diets" and
read some. What you will see are oodles of fresh raw foods, minimal salts
and sugars, NOTHING artificial. If this is what is recommended for people,
then surely it's sound advice for animals too. And as for "some breeds of
dog being too inbred to the point they cannot consume normal foods" then IMO
those dogs will die no matter what. They have been corrupted to the point
that they have fatal genes and there isn't anything you can do about it.
However, there is no scientific reason for that to be true. There are some
pretty poorly bred dogs out there and IMO they do better on a healthy
natural diet than not and I believe benefit more or at least suffer less the
ravages of a crappy diet. Look at your puppy and think of it as a child of
about 4 yrs of age. Think about a Dr saying "Your child has cancer." Do
you think that Dr would tell you, "OK because she has cancer, she needs to
eat a diet that's high in artifical colorants and sweeteners, full of racid
fats and over supplemented with vitamins because she's not going to be able
to really digest it all. We want to get her to the point that she's got bad
teeth too. Pump as much bacteria and chemicals into her system as
possible." No. He's not going to say that. He's going to tell you to feed
her fresh fruits and vegetables, and high quality protein. Be easy with the
sugars and fats. If it's good enough for people, then it's good enough for
dogs.

Karen *former vet tech

--
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."

LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.

~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~

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Messages in this topic (8)
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3b. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:46 am ((PDT))

Hi Gisele,
Thanks for your posting. I know that I sound awful, but I am so full
of anger, at myself, at other people, everything!
When you are saying that other factors can cause this like chemical,
etc. What exactly do you mean? What chemicals in the house? Do you
know anything about it? I know it's beyond this chat group, but
maybe you can give me some clues as to what I was and am doing
wrong.
Appreciate your reply
Vickie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi, Vickie!
> I get my dog's food from a regular grocery store mostly,
too.
>
> Its a shame you don't have the support you need from family and
> friends or the confidence in your own common sense to feed what you
> know is best for your dog.
>
> Hopefully, you will learn that your pup isn't ill, and that kibble
is
> the cr*p-in-a-bag that you know it is, and find renewed
determination
> to feed your pup raw.
>
> You know, you're wrong. Your new pup is living in the same
environment
> that your other pup was living in. There could be several strong
> adverse environmental factors affecting your pups health -
chemicals
> in the house and yard, inoculations, pest control treatments, etc.
> There is also the genetic factor, if you have a breed with a lot of
> genetic 'junk' that causes predisposition for diseases - or have
> bought a pup from the same breeder, if the line has health
problems.
> These factors are much more overwhelmingly likely to cause disease
and
> illness than feeding raw.
>
> Even your anxiety and the negativity that surrounds you and your
pup
> can cause you to see problems that may not be there.
>
> TC
> Giselle
>
>
> > Hi All
> > Thank you for all your advice here, I know you're all strong
believers
> > in raw.
> <snip>
> > I would be interested to see what you, raw veterans, have to
say. I
> > get my food at a regular grocery store.
> >
> > Vickie
> >
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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3c. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "kaylsraven" kaylsraven@yahoo.com kaylsraven
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:12 am ((PDT))

> Maybe
> some dogs are just inbred to the point that they cannot eat normal
> food.

I agree with the sentiment that if that's the case, the dog won't
survive no matter which diet it's on. A brief story maybe that'll
help (maybe not...) but my Collie, Taffy, is from the result of bad,
bad breeding practices, bad whelping practices (sick, infested with
ticks, fleas, and three types of worms), and crap breeding lines. I
was 12 when I got her and all I knew was that I wanted a dog and she
was 60 bucks (although I knew the difference between a rough coated
collie and a smooth coated collie, which is more than I can say for
her breeders). By the time she hit four or five, she was moving like
an old lady--arthritis, bad teeth, no energy. I switched her to raw
when she was seven. She's now ten and the vet thought she was five or
six when she saw her the first time. I would think that if the raw
diet worked for her, with what she came from, it would work for any
dog.

> When you are saying that other factors can cause this like chemical,
> etc. What exactly do you mean? What chemicals in the house?

Everyone's got chemicals in the house--cleaning supplies, computer
stuff, maybe air fresheners (not saying you do) and stuff like that.
It's not necessarily something that's being done wrong, just
something the dog's exposed to on a regular basis and might be
sensitive to. Add to that vaccinations, de-wormer, de-flea stuff, etc-
-there's more the two dogs have in common than the raw diet. The raw
is probably the *least* likely culprit--after all, it's not like the
stuff that goes in dog food is different than what you get from the
grocery store. No, scratch that--it is different. It's not
diseased/cancerous/unfit for *human* consumption in the grocery
store. If it's fit for people, it's fit for dogs. Maybe see what else
could be causing the symptoms (?) before you switch the pup off raw.

Sabrina 'n the gang

Messages in this topic (8)
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3d. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:38 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@...>
wrote:
>
> my puppy is showing the same exact
> symptoms as my other puppy that died of cancer at 13 months of age.

*** What symptoms are those?

> The only thing that they had in common is food. Raw food.

*** Was the other pup a basset also? Were they related?

> I know all
> you told me that it's impossible that I did it to my other dog.
but
> hey, what do you say now?

*** Same thing. There are many many folks almost rabidly opposed to
feeding raw, but not a one of them blames cancer on raw. Cancer can
be caused by a lot of factors, many of which are not known. Cancer
at 13 months is very uncommon, and certainly not caused by diet, raw
or not.

> Right now I feel horrible, I would never want this on to anyone.

*** You do not know that your new pup even has cancer. I think you
are feeling horrible a little in advance. Lets take a step back and
look at his symptoms, and if it is indeed cancer there are a lot
more likely possibilities than diet as a cause.

> Maybe this is all destroyed by
> heating for human consumption, but raw is like eating deasesed
tissue.

*** Cancerous cells do not pass meat inspection for human
consumption. You would need to feed dog food to get those--dead,
diseased, downer, and dying meat animals move out of the human food
chain.

> I would be interested to see what you, raw veterans, have to say.

*** I would say that you are still very upset about losing the last
dog, and that is clouding your judgement now. I would also say that
you still have a bit of anxiety about feeding raw, so that is the
first thing you blame if the dog has any problems. Nevermind that
the pup was skinny and refused to eat kibble when you first got him.
Lastly, I would say that quitting raw is the worst thing you could
do at this point, and that feeding raw will give the dog the best
chance to recover from whatever is wrong with him now.

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (8)
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3e. Re: I've had enough - quitting raw
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:27 am ((PDT))

"vickies_28" <vickies_28@...> wrote:
>However I am quiting, as my puppy is showing the same exact
> symptoms as my other puppy that died of cancer at 13 months of age.
> The only thing that they had in common is food. Raw food. They all
> started showing the symptoms approx after 2 months on raw.
*****
And these symptoms are?

Maybe
> some dogs are just inbred to the point that they cannot eat normal
> food,
*****
I suspect that just as with other undesirable traits that come with
the inbred dog, you may have to adjust diet to compensate for the
blankety-blank stuff we do in the name of beauty, but you should not
have to feed them fake food, just different raw. A raw diet will not
cause cancer.

maybe it's the food itself - full of antibiotics and canceros
> cells, whatever they put in there.
*****
Maybe, but worse than that is what goes into kibble. In fact, meat
that starts out naturally raised and antibiotic free gets utterly and
totally destroyed when it's turned into kibble! That's hardly a
solution. You are not climbing up out of the morass by feeding
kibble, you are just stepping away from responsibility. Kibble will
never (can never) provide the natural nutrition you buy when you buy
human grade raw.

raw is like eating deasesed tissue.
*****
Huh?

> > I would be interested to see what you, raw veterans, have to say.
I
> get my food at a regular grocery store.
*****
I buy much of what I feed from grocery stores. Because I have access
to other sources, I use them as well. I buy the least compromised
food I can find and sometimes I do without if what's there just
doesn't measure up (for example, I will not buy "enhanced food"
regardless of price--cheap is not necessarily good value). I do not
lose sleep over my grocery store "dog food", at least no more than I
do about the purchases I make for human use.

I lost two goldens to cancer in the last 18 months, and these two
dogs lost many close relatives to cancer. The golden retriever
breed, healthwise, is in the toilet. A vet has predicted with some
degree of certainty that 75% of goldens will die of cancer. Is this
cancer from raw food? Heck no! If it were, all the kibblefed
goldens would be scot free.

If you want to protect your breed from cancer, you feed healthy
species appropriate food, quit using chemicals in and on and around
the dog, refuse vaccines and use alternatives to allopathic medicine.

Finding the right raw diet for each dog clearly is not always easy
peasy. I have no doubt you can do it though. It may not look like
the raw diet I feed, but by gum it will be raw and it will be the
healthiest diet you could ever hope to feed.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (8)
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4. Avocado pit follow up
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:45 am ((PDT))

Thanks to all who wrote or responded to my post about Spencer swallowing the
avocado pit.

He's apparently fine. He pooped twice and is eating, playing, sleeping,
etc. as usual. No signs of anything off. So I guess we slipped under the wire
on this one.

Just wanted to thank everyone and also the moderators for letting my post
through. It was pretty scarey there after reading all the dire warnings online.

well wishes,
carol for Spencer

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Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: Ham
Posted by: "carolejc2007" mooska2me@sbcglobal.net carolejc2007
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:45 am ((PDT))

Thanks for the information Giselle. I have never seen a fresh ham in
the store, only the picnic roast or the shoulder roast. I picked up a
nice picnic roast yesterday.

Carole

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Carole!
> There fresh ham and then there's salt cured or smoked ham.
> You don't want to feed salt cured or smoked hams to your dogs.
>
> This is what I mean when I mention a fresh ham;
> http://animalscience.unl.edu/meats/id/Porkcuts/Hamshank.htm
>
> > Giselle
> with Bea in New Jersey

Messages in this topic (7)
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5b. Re: Ham
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:24 am ((PDT))

What you are thinking about is the ham we have for Easter, etc. I live
in the South and pork is cured in many ways. All that is to be
avoided!
You can buy Fresh Ham at some groceries, but you may have to find a
butcher shop to supply it. Fresh ham is just that. The ham is a cut
or part of the pig, just like the loin or the or the butt (which when
cured is a "Picnic" ham, I believe.)
Happy shopping!
Penny & The Menagerie

Messages in this topic (7)
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6a. Re: Help - Ready to quit
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:46 am ((PDT))

Dolores,
If the pork is really fatty, that can be a problem. Trim as much fat
off it as you can and then try some of the suggestions others have
offered. My little English Toy Spaniels have had some of the squirty
problems and this helped.
Good Luck, and don't give up. Pork isn't an essential so if you avoid
it, it won't be a disaster (although it is a good cheap source of meat
and edible bone). Keep you eyes open for other cheap meat at some of
the places suggested in the archives.
Penny & The Menagerie
>

Messages in this topic (13)
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6b. Re: Help - Ready to quit
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:59 am ((PDT))

Hi, Dolores!
Why not try a different protein next, and revisit the pork
Q down the road, when your guys have gotten accustomed to a few other
proteins and are adjusted to raw better?

There's turkey, there'll be some lovely sales soon. There's also beef
'n rabbit 'n fish 'n venison 'n ......

Sometimes the best way to get to your goal is to take a side path..... ^_^

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I have been feeding raw for more than a month. I have three Miniature
> Schnauzers and two Silky Terriers. They do extremely well on the
> chicken, but when I switched to pork they all had really bad poop blow
> outs.
<snip>
Should I stop trying with the
> pork? or what?
>
> Dolores DeGroat
> havanese1@...
>

Messages in this topic (13)
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7a. Re: Revisiting the 2-percent rule to help with weight loss
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:46 am ((PDT))

Hi, Gemma, it sounds like you have things right. I'm assuming you are
just starting out with a raw diet (or just starting out with the diet
part), so go ahead and feed around 1.7lbs a day though it doesn't need
to be that precise. In a couple of weeks if there is no change in
weight you can start reducing a little bit more. Just like humans, you
don't want your dog to lose weight too quickly. Take your time and go
by what she looks like.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cockatoos4" <cockatoos4@...> wrote:

> JinJin is 103 lbs (47 kg). I want her to be 88 lbs (40 kg). I'm
> currently feeding her 2 percent of 88 lbs, which is 1.7 lbs (800 g)
> of food a day.
>
> Is that the correct way to figure it?

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: Digest Number 12064
Posted by: "tantelin22@aol.com" tantelin22@aol.com tantelindar
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:47 am ((PDT))

In a message dated 9/24/2007 7:45:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com writes:

A few things to think about;
1) Some dog's teeth become stained from being covered in calculus and
plaque. A veterinary dental cleaning won't necessarily remove it.
===> I beg to differ. The whole point of a veterinary dental cleaning is
to remove the calculus and plaque. Staining is hardly an issue when you're
concerned about gingivitus and absesses and the possible cardiac complications
from mouth infections. It's like chipping concrete off glass: hard physical
work that the dog will resent and thus can only be done under a general
anesthetic.

2) You don't really want to have your dog undergo an anesthetic
procedure to remove what essentially amounts to a cosmetic cleaning at
this point, would you? Especially with the potential to lose her, with
her low heart rate.
===> I agree that she's lucky her vet has an EKG and uses it before
anthesthia, but, see reference above, it's not just a cosmetic issue.

<======================================== >
Blessed Be with An Honorable Peace!
Tante Lin

Maxine is my Hero! She says:
My idea of rebooting is kicking somebody in the butt twice.
Don't let aging get you down: it's too hard to get back up!
If you woke up breathing, congratulations!
You have another chance!
<===>

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Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: Digest Number 12064
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:32 am ((PDT))

Hi, Lin,

A couple other things to think about;
Libby stated:
"I've been feeding raw prey style for probably a week now, It's not
flawless,
but this transition
is going really well.

The best news is about my Flat Coat Retriever's teeth. Just prior to this
switch, she was
scheduled to have her teeth cleaned. She went in but didn't have the
procedure
because she
had such a low heart rate. Anyway, I have been planning to get her in
to get it
done, but knew
that raw feeding was so good for their teeth, so I have been checking
her teeth
every couple
of days to see if there was any improvement. (Her teeth were really bad.)
Within two weeks
easily, her teeth look MUCH better. There's just a little bit of
discoloration
on the teeth that
her tongue covers up. I may yet be able to save the $500 for her cleaning!
(Plus the concern
about her heart and the anesthesia.)

Thanks for your encouragement.

Libby
Serena and Amica"

*****
1) Libby said in her original post that her dog's teeth were so clean
after only about week of feeding raw that there was only some
discoloration left on the teeth.
That is a far cry from being covered in calculus and plaque and being
in danger of systemic organ infection and failure from long term
unclean teeth.

2) My vet, when I had my first dog, before I knew enough to feed raw,
saved me and my boy from a dental cleaning by using his *thumbnail* to
crush the calculus on his back teeth, and giving me some common sense
info on tooth brushing. My dog didn't like it being done, but we went
slowly, and he survived it very well, and had a cookie after. He
didn't care for tooth brushing either, but survived that many times as
well. ^_^

3) I have had dogs go through veterinary dental cleaning, it doesn't
always remove the staining.

4) Sure, I am glad for veterinary diagnostics, but being notified of a
problem like low heart rate, and choosing any way to allow my dog to
go through a procedure that requires anesthesia for a nonacute,
nonemergency procedure, when I know there are alternatives and no
hurry for them to to take effect, is another matter entirely.
TC
Giselle

> A few things to think about;
> 1) Some dog's teeth become stained from being covered in calculus and
> plaque. A veterinary dental cleaning won't necessarily remove it.
> ===> I beg to differ. The whole point of a veterinary dental
cleaning is
> to remove the calculus and plaque. Staining is hardly an issue
when you're
> concerned about gingivitus and absesses and the possible cardiac
complications
> from mouth infections. It's like chipping concrete off glass:
hard physical
> work that the dog will resent and thus can only be done under a
general
> anesthetic.
>
>
> 2) You don't really want to have your dog undergo an anesthetic
> procedure to remove what essentially amounts to a cosmetic cleaning at
> this point, would you? Especially with the potential to lose her, with
> her low heart rate.
> ===> I agree that she's lucky her vet has an EKG and uses it before
> anesthesia, but, see reference above, it's not just a cosmetic issue.
>
> <======================================== >
> Blessed Be with An Honorable Peace!
> Tante Lin

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: HELP PLEASE? AVOCADO PIT :(((
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:54 am ((PDT))

When I lived in Cali we had several avocado trees in and round my
yard. It was pretty rural and many dogs got "dropped off". (I will
never understand that!) Anyway, I took in several wonderful dogs of
all sizes. They feasted regularly on avocados...I'm sure they got more
than we ever did). I never saw any pits in the poop or the yard. I
don't know where they went, but they were gone. I had some of the dogs
for several years and none of them ever developed any problems from the
pits. One died of old age at 16yrs. Go figure!
Penny & The Menagerie

Messages in this topic (9)
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10a. Re: Cleaner teeth!
Posted by: "Penny (Nickles) Parker" loverladymaggiemae@yahoo.com loverladymaggiemae
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:25 am ((PDT))

I have to chime in here. I just received two ETS's to foster 2 wks
ago. I was told that one needed a dental and perhaps the other did
also. One had terrible breath and several "bad" looking teeth. The
other had terrible tarter and both had inflamed gums. Like I said,
they have been with me for 2 wks and were immediately switched to raw.
Chicken went well so we had some pork necks. They loved them! No need
for a dental for anyone now. The gums are beautiful. I do have to
admit that the "bad" tooth came out somewhere along the line and the
gum has healed perfectly. I do hope that whomever adopts them
continues with raw feeding.
Penny & The Menagerie

Messages in this topic (4)
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10b. Re: Cleaner teeth!
Posted by: "great_dane_devotee" libpowers@mac.com great_dane_devotee
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:20 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Giselle" <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
> If I were you, I'd cancel the procedure. For good.

I think I will.

Thanks!

Libby

Messages in this topic (4)
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11.1. new member
Posted by: "shara brown" scoder@charter.net scoder_2000
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:35 am ((PDT))

Hello,
Im a new member.I just joined today!Someone told me about this group
and feeding raw meats to dogs!I now feed dry food to my dog and i
thought i would stop by and check out more about feeding my dog raw
foods!Im just woundering if any of you have had any problems with feed
your animals raw meats?What are the pro's and con's of feed raw meats!

thanks for letting me join,shara

Messages in this topic (77)
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12. raw feeding my Papillion
Posted by: "maneal_saros" micware@comcast.net maneal_saros
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:11 am ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE REMEMBER TO SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

I have been raw feeding my paperanium for about 3 years and started
feeding my 5 year old papillion a single leg a day but he is having
dirarea problems and the paperanium never had any problems. What shall
I do?

Messages in this topic (1)
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13a. Re: geriatric dogs
Posted by: "tottime47" tottime@aol.com tottime47
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:14 am ((PDT))

Hi,

I have an older dog who exhibits the same behavior when
I introduce a new meat to him...
It's not that they don't realize it's food, they can't figure out
how to eat it.
Instead of putting it in a bowl, could you get a towel and lay it on
that for him?
Maybe cut a few strips in it and let a few pieces of meat, skin hang
off it.

Good luck and yes, you're doing the best for your furbaby!

Carol, Charkee & Moli

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "rawnewfie" <rawnewfie@...> wrote:

> I have a ten year old retriever mix.I have concerns about
> changing her at this older age but we want to try.
> Tonight we tried a chicken thigh. She looked at me like I was
crazy,
> Funny thing is when our tortoise came walking over to check it out,
our old docile retriever
> jumped up and barked and chased her away from the bowl.

Messages in this topic (5)
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14a. Feeding squirrels? (was:Re: parts is parts)
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:41 am ((PDT))

"T Smith" <coldbeach@...> wrote:
>
> I mean no insult to you. I am just curious. Why feed squirrel?
*****
Free is always a good motivator. Also whole prey is the perfect food
package for our dogs, and squirrel--though not likely a major player
in a wolf's diet--easily qualifies in a supporting role. If the
squirrel was hale and hearty until the end, the chances are good it
ate a species appropriate diet itself with few chemicals and
no "enhancements".

I ask because my old vet told me that my dog that
> would eat wild bunnies (if she caught them) would need worming
often because
> they usually carried tapeworms.....
*****
Dogs can get tapes from fleas in any number of situations. The
squirrels can be frozen for a week or so to kill fleas, which would
address that problem. Fecals to test for the presence of worms can
be done every six months or so. And it is not uncommon for a
healthy, rawfed, naturally raised dog to be an inhospitable host for
huge parasite loads. Since there's evidence that light loads are not
necessarily the issue traditional medicine makes them out to be, I'd
say feeding squirrels as part of the diet and monitoring the dog
(which one should do alla time, anyway) would be a reasonable
solution.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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15a. ADMIN/Re: Raw TREATS?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:51 am ((PDT))

Please move this discussion to RawChat. Further posts regarding
procedure will be deleted.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (6)
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16. Hershey squirts
Posted by: "carolejc2007" mooska2me@sbcglobal.net carolejc2007
Date: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:21 am ((PDT))

I started my dogs on their raw diet last Tuesday. They are still on
chicken only. They have been doing fine until yesterday, when I
decided to give them chicken hearts, gizzards and liver for their
morning meal. Previously I had only been giving them chicken
quarters. Later on in the morning my girl who has always had a
sensitive stomach acted like she needed to poop and was straining like
she was constipated. When she finally did go it was pure chocolate
looking liquid. Did the organ meat do this? Was it too soon to
introduce the organ parts of the chicken? Another one had an accident
during the night and it was also dark and runny. Help, what am I doing
wrong?

Also my sensitive tummy girl chews on her chicken piece until
she can fit the remaining piece in her mouth and then swallows it
practically whole. Will this hurt her?

I really want to do this right because I firmly believe it (raw
feeding) is the best thing for my dogs but I'm still so scared I might
be hurting them by doing something wrong! Help! What's a mother to
do????

Carole (Mom of 2 Grey's and 2 Italian Grey's)

Messages in this topic (1)
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