[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11860

There are 18 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. fear of bones (was Re: constipation ?
From: Laurie Swanson

2a. offal variety - how necessary?
From: zest_741
2b. Re: offal variety - how necessary?
From: Laurie Swanson

3a. Re: constipation ?
From: Morledzep@aol.com
3b. Re: constipation ?
From: Giselle
3c. Re: constipation ?
From: Laurie Swanson

4a. Re: Duck
From: ginny wilken

5a. Re: Pork Loin
From: Morledzep@aol.com
5b. Re: Pork Loin
From: Morledzep@aol.com

6. Re: yassy, meat variety
From: Morledzep@aol.com

7. Re: yassy, fish
From: Morledzep@aol.com

8. reddness from meat???
From: Ivette Casiano

9. Starting raw with a surgery near
From: pigasus718

10a. Re: Upset stomach
From: doreenchui
10b. Re: Upset stomach
From: doreenchui

11. salmon caused illness?
From: graceacrestraci

12a. another newbie question
From: quiltingtuppy

13a. Re: Buffalo Heart
From: Carol

Messages
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1a. fear of bones (was Re: constipation ?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:14 pm ((PDT))

Hi there,

Most of us had to get over our fear of feeding bones. And you still
want to keep an eye on the dog, and feed appropriate bones for his size
and eating style. But if you choose wisely and give it a try, you will
learn what works best and get more and more comfortable. Is your dog a
pretty good bone-chewer, or does he try to gulp large items? What
bones have you fed and how did it go? Are you comfortable feeding any
certain types yet?

You can do whole fish, which is a super-comfy way to get bones into a
dog. My dog is smaller than yours (20 lb. Boston), but he does have
gulping tendencies (much better after several months of feeding prey
model). He does great w/lamb necks (cut into about 2-3" wide by 6"
long chunks), big pork necks, goat/lamb legs, turkey thighs, pork or
lamb ribs. There are lots of other options, too, of course. Some of
the items I mentioned are fairly boney, so I usually add some meat or
organs to many of those meals. Chicken is easy, too--just go with
bigger parts he'll have to work at a little--like quarters, halves, or
whole, as opposed to something that might be gulped whole like a
drumstick or wing.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, outcats4@... wrote:
> Im still afraid of some bones - He's a fairly large dog, a malinois
> /greyhound mix, and he seems to have no problem eating bones, its
just me getting
> over my fear of it. I get worried every time i feed chicken legs or
lamb bones,
> so i havent been feeding the meat with the bones. i

Messages in this topic (12)
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2a. offal variety - how necessary?
Posted by: "zest_741" zest_741@yahoo.com.au zest_741
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:22 pm ((PDT))

Hi, I posted this on a sighthound list but no-one replied, so I'm
hoping to have more luck here :)
For 4 months or so I've been totally raw feeding after doing a hybrid
model for a while before that.
I have found it easy to get variety in RMB's and meaty cuts, but not
offal.
All I can find in offal is liver (pork, chicken, lamb, beef & goat)
and kidneys (pork and lamb). No procesors or abattoirs that I can find
around here.
Are liver and kidneys enough if I rotate between the species?
I feed each about once a week, is that often enough?
Lamb brains are also available but very expensive, are they worthwhile
enough in nutritional terms to add in once a month or so?
I feed tongue and heart too but class them as meat rather than
offal.My dogs are both Borzoi, one adult and one 8 month old.
Thanks in advance, I really need some help!
Kerry

Messages in this topic (2)
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2b. Re: offal variety - how necessary?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:19 am ((PDT))

Sounds like you are doing pretty good to me! That's quite a bit of
variety in organs. I don't know how we would really know how much of
each thing is necessary for optimal health. I just think about
nature and a whole prey animal, and keep trying to improve in quality
and body part variety, but I also think it's a fun hobby. :-)

If you want to keep looking...Have you checked for pork spleen (my
dog LOVES that!) or heads at Asian markets? Have you looked for
sweetbreads (I've only seen them at one grocery store and they were
pretty pricey.)? You could order tripe w/trachea/gullet/etc.
online. Is there a buying group/co-op near you? You might find odd
items that way, too. I just got a couple lamb heads from mine
(WA/OR). You could keep an eye out for turkeys/organs around
holidays. If you do whole fish, you can get some eyeballs, guts and
brains that way, too.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "zest_741" <zest_741@...> wrote:
> All I can find in offal is liver (pork, chicken, lamb, beef & goat)
> and kidneys (pork and lamb). No procesors or abattoirs that I can
find
> around here.
> Are liver and kidneys enough if I rotate between the species?
> I feed each about once a week, is that often enough?
> Lamb brains are also available but very expensive, are they
worthwhile
> enough in nutritional terms to add in once a month or so?
> I feed tongue and heart too but class them as meat rather than
> offal.

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: constipation ?
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:37 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/29/2007 3:18:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
outcats4@aol.com writes:

My dog will often go 2 days maybe 3 without pooping and I get really
stressed when this happens. I add pulverized organic vegetables to his meat
and
pumpkin, but wonder if its that he is getting too much meat ? is this
normal
and can i relax, or is something off ?

Barb,

you can't hardly feed too much meat unless you're just completely overfeeding
the dog. there is no need for veggies, or pumpkin.. feed MOSTLY meat, a
little bone and a little organ meat.. approximate percentages would be 80% meat,
10% edible bone, and 10% organ meat.

no need for veggies, not as a normal part of the diet.. but they will make
things move when you're feeding too much bone.. still it shouldn't be a regular
part of the diet. no harm in feeding them as treats now and then though, if
you feel the need.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (12)
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3b. Re: constipation ?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:26 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Barb!
You've come quite a long way already!

You just need to ditch the veggie stuff, and let your fellow eat some
whole meat with bones.

Feed soft bones to begin with, chicken, rabbit & fish is great to help
you get over the 'scary bones' feeling. The more you feed, the more
confident you will feel. And the better your dog does on the raw diet,
the better he will look!

Pork, turkey, lamb, venison and goat bones are mostly edible, too. The
long leg bones and some rib bones may not be completely edible, but
you can always take them up after your dog strips them of what he can
eat. Every bone you feed doesn't have to be completely edible, only
10% of the total diet needs to be bone. And some meals can be meatless.
So, be worried, and watch him while he eats, but feed those bones!
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I was feeding the Volhard diet, but slowly stopped adding the
grains. He
> wasn't doing too well on that diet, and I was afraid of bone meal,
so I didn't
> add that.
>
> I'm still afraid of some bones - He's a fairly large dog, a Malinois
> /greyhound mix, and he seems to have no problem eating bones, its
just me getting
> over my fear of it. I get worried every time I feed chicken legs
or lamb bones,
> so I haven't been feeding the meat with the bones. i

Messages in this topic (12)
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3c. Re: constipation ?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:19 am ((PDT))

My dog does this sometimes, too. I wouldn't worry unless you're
feeding a lot of bone and his poops are dry and crumbly and/or it
seems like he's straining to go. I really doubt you're feeding too
much meat, since that should be the bulk of the diet. How often are
you feeding? Do you mean you add veggies and pumpkin all the time,
or just when you want to get him to poop? I've heard people use
pumpkin to try to remedy loose stool, so if you're using that all the
time, it might be contributing to constipation.

Laurie

>
> In a message dated 7/29/2007 3:18:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> outcats4@... writes:
>
> My dog will often go 2 days maybe 3 without pooping and I get
really
> stressed when this happens. I add pulverized organic vegetables to
his meat
> and
> pumpkin, but wonder if its that he is getting too much meat ? is
this
> normal
> and can i relax, or is something off ?

Messages in this topic (12)
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4a. Re: Duck
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:45 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 29, 2007, at 7:48 PM, Katie wrote:

> i'm reposting in the hope that someone will ahve some words of
> wisdom to share?

Okay.... It is highly unlikely that these are true food allergies,
and for that reason they should do very well on the same proteins raw
and unprocessed. What they may have is chronic disease from previous
insults - which is to say their immune systems are overly reactive.
If, and maybe even not if, you can find foods that do not make them
itch, you can put off dealing with the disease within for a while.
But it will continue to cause problems for them. You might wish to do
some reading on homeopathy and how it works to help the body readjust
itself after the insults of poor food and drugs. In the meantime,
remember that their "allergies" are not to foods, really, but the
foods are just the triggers. That's why they keep changing, because
it doesn't really matter to the body, which will show symptoms
paradoxically no matter what gyrations you go through with the diet.

If it's from the food, they will stop itching. If they don't stop
itching, it's a sign to you to go beyond diet. Whatever you do, do
not use steroids or other drugs like antihistamines. These will
really set them back.

ginny and Tomo, our two cents'

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (18)
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5a. Re: Pork Loin
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:25 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/29/2007 3:35:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
loulou_bean@yahoo.com writes:

Is the loin okay? It seems big
enough that he won't swallow it whole, but there
really is no bone stopping him from doing it. Any
advice would be great. Thanks,

***I'm sure your peke will be in "hog heaven" getting a whole pork loin all
for himself. It'll probably take him most of the next year to eat it.. but i
have no doubt that he won't complain one bit.

I personally, for such a small dog, would go with spare ribs in 3 - 4 rib
slabs.. that's a meal and a workout and some bone if the dog so chooses all in a
neat little package.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (9)
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5b. Re: Pork Loin
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:44 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/29/2007 7:42:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
linoleum5017@yahoo.com writes:

My dog loves the bone-in pork loin - our butcher cuts it in whatever
size hunks I ask, and it's fairly cheap - $1.70/lb. He's got big
teeth, it seems, and can crunch with the big guys. I've not had a
problem with those bones, (yet, anyway.) Does this list 'not'
recommend them? (I can take them away from him, in that case.)

Lynn,

bone-in pork of any size or shape is just hunky dory... except stuff like
pork chops where the bone is cut long ways with a saw..

there is no part of the pig that isn't edible, either for humans or dogs, my
grandma used to say they eat everything but the "oink".

for very young dogs, puppies, does with chewing issues, it's loads of fun to
go to the local asian market and buy pork snouts and/or faces. Keeps them
busy for hours and you laughing the entire time.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (9)
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6. Re: yassy, meat variety
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:35 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/29/2007 10:26:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,
sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com writes:

Now,how many protin sourcee are you all feeding? I was curious if for
example,commercially available beef,lamb,chicken,Turkey,Pork,fish are good enough
just that or not.
I know that rawfeeding needs variety of protin source but if those are good
enough just that?

Yassy,

If that is what is available then thats going to be good enough. But always
keep an eye out for more and different kinds of meat. I don't know where you
are, but here in California (USA), Pork is inexpensive, easy to find and very
safe for people and dogs.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (1)
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7. Re: yassy, fish
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:54 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/29/2007 10:22:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com writes:

It is more interesting if you think about fish. Some fish is white meat like
flounder and some is quite red like Tuna and some is pinky like snapper,and
some are orange like Salmon.
I wonder if that all relating to how much they swim ?? Just curious thoughts.

Yassy,

yes.. that is exactly the reason that different fish have different color
meat. There is also a big difference between farm raised and wild, the farm
raised fish have much lighter colored meat than the wild fish because the wild
fish actually have to work and swim to stay alive. Farm raised fish (also
applies to meat animals) don't have to work or swim to find food, it comes to them,
and they don't have to run away from predators.

Catherine R.

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8. reddness from meat???
Posted by: "Ivette Casiano" ivettecasiano@yahoo.com ivettecasiano
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:18 am ((PDT))

I'm a newbie, have been feeding my 7 yr. yellow lab raw only a few months. He's doing well but I'd like to know if it's possible for his fur around his elbows and paws to get orange due to feeding red meats?
Ivette

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Messages in this topic (1)
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9. Starting raw with a surgery near
Posted by: "pigasus718" pigasus718@yahoo.com pigasus718
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:18 am ((PDT))

Hi,
I'm new here and have been trying to read up on all the posts.
My question is, I was planning on starting my two on raw for the
morning meal tomorrow. I found out saturday that my shih tzu,Lilo, has
3 kidney stones and has to have surgery tuesday and can't be fed after
6pm tomorrow.
Should I go ahead and start raw, or wait till a couple of days after
her surgery when her system has had time to recover a little?
Any experience/thoughts/observations would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Robyn

Messages in this topic (1)
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10a. Re: Upset stomach
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:20 am ((PDT))

>
> Hi Sandy
> My whippet starting taking raw in the morning since 2 months ago.
> Just meat, chicken, beef, mutton/lamb. Fish, once in a while, as
> treats, never as the main meal.
I tried giving with bones(chicken)> but he does not like it.
I am trying to get him eating raw boneless
> meat first, get his stomach right and slowly introduce other things.
> I started full raw recently, meaning no Abady. With chicken(he does
> not like it) and beef, his stools are alright but not with
> mutton/lamb, it tends to be loose. Beef fed for more than 6-7 days
wii result in an stomach upset.
For each new protein, I start
> with 50gms.
> Doreen

Messages in this topic (9)
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10b. Re: Upset stomach
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:24 am ((PDT))

>
> I live in Singapore. We do not have turkey here except for the
> Christmas season. No rabbit meat too. We only have pig and
> chicken organs here. I do feed fish once in a while, seabass or
> grouper. Will try cod fish soon.Venision is very hard to come by
and
> I happen to chance upon it just few days ago in a wholesale factory
> outlet. I paid frozen venison for USD 29 per kg. Frozen beef is USD
> 10 , frozen goat(whole leg) is USD15. Chilled beef is USD 22. All
> these are from wholesaler and if you buy it from supermarket, it's
> probable 2 1/2 times more.
> I'm not worried about the kibble as he's totally not interested.
> Yes, i packed all the meat in meal sized portions. I used to feed
> him 2 days this and 2 days that but I read somewhere that it's
> better to feed one kind for a week and then switch.
> He prefers boneless meat. i tried many a times to give him chiken
> necks and backs but he simply refuse it after a couple of bites.
> Then at next meal time, he will go into hiding.
> I have just started giving digestive enzymes yesterday.Perhaps, I
should try giving it before his meal.
> He had chicken after his fasting day and this morning, I tried
> giving him chicken again this morning and he had refused.
> His eating habits differ now and then. .
> For your info, my whippet came to me when he was 15 months old.
he's
> now 2 yrs old. My schnauzer have been with me since he was 3 mths
old.
Doreen
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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11. salmon caused illness?
Posted by: "graceacrestraci" RTGandA@integrity.com graceacrestraci
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:24 am ((PDT))

My 14 month old dog, eating raw for 2 months, is off his feed and
moping. I fed him raw salmon about 10 days ago of which he threw it all
up and then some. I was told afterward salmon has a parasite. Anyone
have any knowledge/experience with this?
Traci

Messages in this topic (1)
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12a. another newbie question
Posted by: "quiltingtuppy" mamacass@iprimus.com.au quiltingtuppy
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:54 am ((PDT))

Hi Everyone,

Charlie (10 week mini/medium labradoodle pup) loved his first ever chicken back tonight,
finally we've started raw. He was pretty impressed!

My (latest!) question - is there such a thing as breed appropriate raw food, or is it just a
matter of the difference of jaw strength of a chihauha vs a malamute? Like would a small dog
in the wild only catch and feed on a small animal?

Hope this makes sense, my (human) kids are doing my head in today!

Regards
Stephanie

Messages in this topic (5)
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13a. Re: Buffalo Heart
Posted by: "Carol" onejoyfulmoose@yahoo.com onejoyfulmoose
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:41 am ((PDT))

-
At 99 cents/lb it isn't costly for me to obtain. And, they're close
to where my Aunt lives so even if they didn't ship I can stock up
when I go in that direction.

Carol

>
> Carol,
>
> As much as i suggest meat variety, i have to admit that i just
don't see
> enough difference between beef heart and buffalo heart to justify
the difference
> in price. And if you have a dog that can tell the difference and
doesn't like
> buffalo heart, beef heart is cheap and good... no need to sweat the
small
> stuff.
>
> Catherine R.
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-
new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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