[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11851

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: A nervous newbie with some specific challenges - gulping
From: jbronwen

2a. Re: Tell me about 'tripe'
From: Sandee Lee
2b. Re: Tell me about 'tripe'
From: costrowski75

3a. Mini Rant (was "protein percentage")
From: Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)
3b. Re: Mini Rant (was "protein percentage")
From: pet.wellness
3c. Re: Mini Rant (was "protein percentage")
From: chaparraltrail
3d. Re: Mini Rant (was "protein percentage")
From: costrowski75

4. Refusing organs
From: millser25

5a. Newbie with various questions
From: sarahfalkner
5b. Re: Newbie with various questions
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: Poo less, pee more
From: Laurie Swanson
6b. Re: Poo less, pee more
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Constipation
From: Laurie Swanson
7b. Re: Constipation
From: Cheryl
7c. Re: Constipation
From: Sandee Lee

8. Windfall
From: halojo45

9a. Re: older dog
From: Cheryl
9b. Re: older dog
From: Sandee Lee

10a. Looking for excellent summary post....
From: woofwoofgrrl
10b. Re: Looking for excellent summary post....
From: Sandee Lee

11a. Re: protein percentage?
From: tinybabypony

12a. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: emdeefa

13a. In memory of Harley 10/26/97 thru 07/27/07
From: cornerstone_bullmastiffs
13b. Re: In memory of Harley 10/26/97 thru 07/27/07
From: michael@brooksweb.org

14.1. Re: Chicken feet
From: costrowski75

Messages
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1a. Re: A nervous newbie with some specific challenges - gulping
Posted by: "jbronwen" bronwenjones@sympatico.ca jbronwen
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:34 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:

> You may be surprised what he will be able to handle with his
> remaining teeth, but feeding small pieces that can be swallowed whole
is not
> the way to go.

Well, thanks to your suggestion I gathered my courage. My toothless
wonder (or 'less teeth' wonder) tackled a whole chicken breast today!
It took him 45 minutes to consume it all but he did it!!! Yaaaay.
<mommy is proud>

So now I know I can get him his bone content. As for boneless meals,
in order to give a piece big enough that he can't scarf, it will have
to be way more than his alottment for that meal, or even that day. So
once he's eaten what I want him to, do I just take it away?

I'm also dubious that he will be able to tear beef/pork as successfully
as he could tear the chicken - we'll wait and see I guess. I notice
that Satchel does not lie down and 'hold' his meat with his paws to
help as he pulls at it. He just stands over it as turns his head as he
chews.
Can I help him learn this?

Bronwen

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: Tell me about 'tripe'
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:45 pm ((PDT))

Pam,

Don't bother with tripe from the grocery store...it's been cleaned,
bleached, etc. for human use. Raw tripe is good stuff but you won't be able
to buy it in your market!! :))

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "pvojtas" <pam.vojtas@datacore.com>

Ok, we have made the plunge - Charlie and Quincy enjoyed their chicken
breast w/ ribs last night! So today I visited Walmart to see what other
cool things I could buy (got more chicken parts, some pork country ribs
and chicken hearts). There I saw two different types of tripe:
honeycomb, which looked like white bubble wrap and beef tripe, which
just looked disgusting. I had been feeding the boys canned Solid Gold
Green Cow Tripe, which they loved. Any one have any thoughts on raw
tripe?
Pam

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Tell me about 'tripe'
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:23 pm ((PDT))

"pvojtas" <pam.vojtas@...> wrote:
There I saw two different types of tripe:
> honeycomb, which looked like white bubble wrap and beef tripe, which
> just looked disgusting. I had been feeding the boys canned Solid Gold
> Green Cow Tripe, which they loved. Any one have any thoughts on raw
> tripe?
*****
To paraphrase Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars, these aren't the tripes you
want.

The tripe you want won't be found along side meats approved for human
consumption. The tripe you saw is bleached and cleaned and stripped of
anything remarkable. The stomach tissue itself is a mediocre protein.
You can buy these tripes for fun toys if you want but I think you can
find better body parts to spend your money on.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Mini Rant (was "protein percentage")
Posted by: "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" carolyn.garnaas@siemens.com carolyn.garnaas
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:30 pm ((PDT))

I had to take Molly to the vet to get her ears attended to, and there
was a huge poster sitting right out on the counter stating in large
print that due to the recent melamine scare (where thousands of animals
died, not hundreds like the media said), some people are considering
preparing home-cooked meals for their dog.

The vets who wrote the poster actually claimed that it is DANGEROUS to
home-cook food for your dog. Instead they recommended a (very expensive)
consultation with their "canine nutrition specialist" to ensure that the
dogs get a balanced diet. Then they recommended some "balanced" k**ble.

Balderdash. I had to bite my lip not to laugh right out loud. So did
Molly. But it's also hard not to become angry over this kind of
misguided, self-serving advice.

Carolyn J. Garnaas

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Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: Mini Rant (was "protein percentage")
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:25 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)"
<carolyn.garnaas@...> wrote:
>
> Balderdash. I had to bite my lip not to laugh right out loud. So did
> Molly. But it's also hard not to become angry over this kind of
> misguided, self-serving advice.
> Carolyn J. Garnaas
>
***
Self-serving is one thing. Believing your own bull is another. I am so
disappointed in the veterinary profession.
Pamela

http://www.pet-wellness-update.com
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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3c. Re: Mini Rant (was "protein percentage")
Posted by: "chaparraltrail" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:49 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)"
<carolyn.garnaas@...> wrote:
>
> The vets who wrote the poster actually claimed that it is
DANGEROUS to
> home-cook food for your dog.

It is one thing to prefer processed food...but to claim a more
natural diet is DANGEROUS? Kind of reminds me of the flack women
took 50 years ago (with some doctors) when they wanted to breast
feed human babies. How COULD those silly women think
their "homemade" milk could compete with modern science?!?

It is important to have a vet with whom you can speak openly.
Websites and e-mail lists are great, but no substitute for a good
vet. In those rare instance where there might be a problem with a
raw diet (just like there are humans with PKU, and other
intolerances to normal nutrients), you want a vet who will work with
you to keep the diet as natural as possible, not blemae you for your
DANGEROUS choices.

Lori

Messages in this topic (4)
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3d. Re: Mini Rant (was "protein percentage")
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:36 pm ((PDT))

"Garnaas, Carolyn (MED US)" <carolyn.garnaas@...> wrote:
>> The vets who wrote the poster actually claimed that it is
DANGEROUS to
> home-cook food for your dog. Instead they recommended a (very
expensive)
> consultation with their "canine nutrition specialist" to ensure
that the
> dogs get a balanced diet. Then they recommended some "balanced"
k**ble.
*****
When my big Lab was a little Lab still and I was taking him to
UCDavis for work on his elbow dysplasia, I was asked--not by the vet
but rather by one of his students--what I fed and when I said raw the
woman gave me a condescending little smile (similar to "Doctor will
see you now") and told me they'd be happy to work up a good diet for
me.

Oh, thanks so much. Would that be with or without help from Science
Diet?

I am grateful for the fine work UCD did on my Lab's elbows. I know
many dog owners whose dogs benefitted from the ministrations of Davis
vets. I'll give them that. But no way am I gonna let them feed my
dogs!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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4. Refusing organs
Posted by: "millser25" millser25@yahoo.com millser25
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi,
I've been trying to introduce organs to my dog, but he hates them.
Occasionally, he'll eat liver, if I chop it up into pieces and mix it
with ground meat or other chunks of meaty meat. I offered him hunks
of cow heart last week. He eventually ate the heart hunks the first
two days I offered it, but refused it after that. I offered liver
again and he refused. Next I offered beef kidney. He rolled it
around in his mouth a few times, but wouldn't eat it. I tried cutting
it into pieces and mixing it with pieces of meaty meat, but he ate
around it. After about half an hour, I took it away from him, and
offered it again the next morning - alone. He still refused, so I
pulled it away after about half an hour. I offered it a third time
for dinner, and he continued to refuse. I'm concerned that I won't be
able to incorporate organs. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Erica

Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Newbie with various questions
Posted by: "sarahfalkner" Sarah.Falkner@gmail.com sarahfalkner
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:35 pm ((PDT))

Hi all, I read through most of the posts, and still have a couple of questions.

I'm really glad to find this list, I've tried to feed my companion cats all raw food for years
on and off, but not only have I in the past gotten flak from friends, vets etc., but against
my intuition I followed recipes--the only "authoritative" raw food info I could find for
years--which always included some grain and/or veggies, and usually a complicated and
expensive blend of supplements, all of which naturally the cats would leave on the plate
having carefully picked out the meat, and then I would worry my friends/vet/etc were right
that I wasn't giving them balanced nutrition, and feeling guilty and pressured I would go
back to feeding some high-end canned food like Wysong, Abady or Wellness, with
occasional "treats" of raw muscle and organ meat. So I'm now glad to find information and
experienced advice that both goes better with my intuition, and with what my cats actually
seem to want to eat! I just want to make sure I present them with a good balance of
choices in the best forms.

Would love to hear what people have to say:

1. Is there a FAQ file, especially one with a recommended reading list?

2. There seem to be various opinions online about grinding vs. not grinding bone. For 2
fairly healthy cats with all their teeth, does anyone have any good reasons for grinding
bones? On the other hand, this is the "sticking point" with my cats--they've always
happily dug into raw muscle and organ meat, but have avoided bones. They'll chew on
chicken necks and drag them around the house, but not eat the bones. With transitioning
to a total raw diet, how long is ok for them to be finicky about bones, when do I
(hypothetically) need to start worrying they're not still eating bones? Anyone have any
great tips for transitioning cats to eating bones?

3. Optimal percentages and ratios of nutrients... seems important to be both thoughtful
and relaxed, seems sensible to me not to have every meal identical but to try to average
out percentages over numerous meals. Anybody have a relaxed good rule of thumb for
this, like weekly suggested amounts of different types of meats?

4. I've read such conflicting things about cats and fish, the fishmongers and fearmongers
sure disagree! I know for myself, eating oily fish like salmon, mackerel, sardines etc.
many times a week makes a huge difference in my health on so many levels. The anti-fish
for cats camp never indicates exactly how much fish in the diet it is that would potentially
inhibit feline vitamin B absorption... again, anbyody have a good rule of thumb, like weekly
suggested fish meals? Anybody ever seen a cat harmed by fish?

5. I would find it helpful personally if a couple of experienced people who take the more
relaxed approach about percentages and ratios could describe, say, a sample week's worth
of meals for a cat.

Hmmm, I think that's about it for now. ;-)

Thanks everybody,

Sarah

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Newbie with various questions
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:28 pm ((PDT))

"sarahfalkner" <Sarah.Falkner@...> wrote:
>> Would love to hear what people have to say:
>
> 1. Is there a FAQ file, especially one with a recommended reading
list?
*****
No.
You can get all the info you need from the list archives. I think
you might find RawfedCats <http://www.rawfedcats.org/index.htm>
especially useful. Also consider a sister list to this one--RawCat--
if you want to bask in the single species attention it offers.
Subscribe: rawcat-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Most of the obvious raw feeding books focus on dogs and the few that
address cats seem to get all caught up in trying to feed grains and
veggies to cats (as you pointed out).

> 2. There seem to be various opinions online about grinding vs.
not grinding bone. For 2
> fairly healthy cats with all their teeth, does anyone have any good
reasons for grinding
> bones?
*****
Other than for exceedingly toothless cats and for the purposes of
transitioning, there's no reason to grind. Grinding defeats two of
the truly great virtues of whole raw food--achieving and maintaining
oral health. Do not grind unless you absolutely have to.

With transitioning
> to a total raw diet, how long is ok for them to be finicky about
bones, when do I
> (hypothetically) need to start worrying they're not still eating
bones? Anyone have any
> great tips for transitioning cats to eating bones?
*****
Ha! As long as it takes. My two cats took immediately and joyfully
to raw but I hear tell that's highly unusual. You CAN transition a
cat to a whole raw diet but you have to be more patient and cunning
than they are. Again, consider joining RawCat, if only for the
archives.

> 3. Anybody have a relaxed good rule of thumb for
> this, like weekly suggested amounts of different types of meats?
*****
I apparently feed my cat all wrong, but it seems to be working okay
for her. Mostly I just give her a small chunk of whatever meat the
dogs are getting (except for store bought beef that doesn't sit well
at all), plus a chicken neck or a whole quail or a turkey neck or a
whole sardine (not in the same meal of course but perhaps sometimes
in the same day). I give her bits of heart and kidney and spleen
(she loves it all) and from time to time she gets a pork should blade
bone to clean up after my pup has finished cleaning it up.

The only guidelines I give myself are to feed more red meat than
white, to feed meaty bones several meals a week and not to leave
thawing body parts where she can get at them.

It takes zero rules of thumb if you can feed whole prey. That's
easiest: get XX, feed it. No weighing, no measuring.

> 4. The anti-fish
> for cats camp never indicates exactly how much fish in the diet it
is that would potentially
> inhibit feline vitamin B absorption... again, anbyody have a good
rule of thumb, like weekly
> suggested fish meals? Anybody ever seen a cat harmed by fish?
*****
I don't consider fish mandatory and I know there's the thiamine
deficiency issue to worry about, but if your cat is keen on fish and
you feed fish occasionally as one of a variety of proteins, I don't
believe it's a problem. I've certainly read of cats with thiamine
deficiency but I can't say I've met one up close and personal. I'm
sure others will have more and better information.

> 5. I would find it helpful personally if a couple of experienced
people who take the more
> relaxed approach about percentages and ratios could describe, say,
a sample week's worth
> of meals for a cat.
*****
Other than my thumb rules as listed above, I've never worried about
percentages and ratios. More meat than bone; more red meat than
white; squidgy ick organs when I remember and certainly when I am
feeding same to the dogs. Again, I imagine others will contribute
here, and you probably should join RawCat.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: Poo less, pee more
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:26 pm ((PDT))

Couldn't he be peeing more since his food has a much higher water
content now? I would venture a guess that most non-raw dogs are
dehydrated to some degree. They are designed to get most of their
water from their food, and when they're on cooked food (kibble or
canned), there's much less water in the food.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "doreenchui" <doreenchui@> wrote:
> >
> > I noticed that since my whippet started on raw, he poo much much
> lesser
> > but pee much more.
> *****
> Pooping less is appropriate since you are feeding more digestible
> food. But there's no reason for him to be peeing more unless you are
> regularly feeding him highly salted food. If his diet is minimally
> processed with no added salt and he's not getting salt from other
> sources, you may want to discuss this issue with a vet.
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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6b. Re: Poo less, pee more
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:36 pm ((PDT))

"Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...> wrote:
>
> Couldn't he be peeing more since his food has a much higher water
> content now? I would venture a guess that most non-raw dogs are
> dehydrated to some degree. They are designed to get most of their
> water from their food, and when they're on cooked food (kibble or
> canned), there's much less water in the food.
*****
Well possibly but I don't recall my dogs increasing their peeing when
switched to raw and I don't recall significant list focus on the issue
overall. Seems to me that if dietary water were the cause, other
people would have noticed an increase as well.

It would be my entirely off-hand guess that dietary water is less than
the supplemental water drunk by kibblefed dogs.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Re: Constipation
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:26 pm ((PDT))

It varies w/the dog and what/how often they're fed. Mine gets fed once
a day or every other day and goes about the same--usually once a day,
sometimes every other day, occasionally more or less.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cheryl <parkbunny@...> wrote:
>
> since feeding raw changes the stooling, how often do they go when on
> this type of plan.???
> Cheryl
>
>

Messages in this topic (23)
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7b. Re: Constipation
Posted by: "Cheryl" parkbunny@verizon.net vessels13
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:23 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: REMEMBER TO SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

someone said to get a back, leg, and you say these aren't high meat
parts... I just started, out the gate cleanI think wednesday was my
first day here. So... This is all new to me. I'm not sure I agree on
net getting vegetables but yet, "m new. I have to learn why not some
veggies i.e. carrots or potatoes. If raw is raw then how come there
is so much to talk about when it appears as simple as give em a leg
or some other animal and you're all set???

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Cheryl,
>
> You are going to have to think about ratios a *little* bit or you
are going
> to end up feeding far too much bone. The majority of the diet
needs to be

Messages in this topic (23)
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7c. Re: Constipation
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:41 pm ((PDT))

Cheryl, it is as simple as handing out pieces and parts...but the parts you
are feeding or thinking about feeding (wings and backs) don't have enough
meat so eventually you need to add meat and organs. If you look at the
natural diet of a carnivore, it is mostly meat....and no veggies!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Cheryl" <parkbunny@verizon.net>
someone said to get a back, leg, and you say these aren't high meat
parts... I just started, out the gate cleanI think wednesday was my
first day here. So... This is all new to me. I'm not sure I agree on
net getting vegetables but yet, "m new. I have to learn why not some
veggies i.e. carrots or potatoes. If raw is raw then how come there
is so much to talk about when it appears as simple as give em a leg
or some other animal and you're all set???

Messages in this topic (23)
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8. Windfall
Posted by: "halojo45" hanne@hajo.us halojo45
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:26 pm ((PDT))

Just have to share :
When picking up fresh tongue from the slaughter house, I was able to
score about 10 (TEN) hogs' heads (free of charge) . Shared with a
neighbor, who also raw feeds his St.Bernards (also a list member).
My Berner boy, very satisfied and panting after his feast, left only
the jaw and teeth. My Pyr girl is lying right beside her crate, still
guarding her left-overs.
My heart welled with joy watching these two beasts attack the
heads ....
Hanne

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9a. Re: older dog
Posted by: "Cheryl" parkbunny@verizon.net vessels13
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:04 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

I have nature's variety also. Can't we use it for the vegetable that
is in there? and convenience? Like tonight. I'm at work and won't
get home until11:30. I have the NV and I can thaw one of those
medallions out pretty quick. I have no raw meat in the fridge... I
don't have a senior pet either. Does age have any thing to do with
raw feeding or how much? or what to add,

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Stop Nature's Variety, hand him a chicken part. If you think there
is going
> to be a problem because of age, begin with small meals. I wouldn't
consider

Messages in this topic (11)
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9b. Re: older dog
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:16 pm ((PDT))

Why would you want to feed vegetables to a carnivore? It's just as
convenient to feed a chicken quarter!

I don't think age has much to do with anything.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Cheryl" <parkbunny@verizon.net>

I have nature's variety also. Can't we use it for the vegetable that
is in there? and convenience? Like tonight. I'm at work and won't
get home until11:30. I have the NV and I can thaw one of those
medallions out pretty quick. I have no raw meat in the fridge... I
don't have a senior pet either. Does age have any thing to do with
raw feeding or how much? or what to add,

Messages in this topic (11)
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10a. Looking for excellent summary post....
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:24 pm ((PDT))

Sometime within the last month, somebody wrote up an amazing description
of the prey model diet.
It had more than just ratios and percentages, and it was beautifully
concise and well written. I've searched through the
archives and I can't find it. If someone else remembers this post,
could you please sent the link?

Thanks!
Christine

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: Looking for excellent summary post....
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:29 pm ((PDT))

It was great, wasn't it? So great, I saved it.....
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/135764

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "woofwoofgrrl" <cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com>

> Sometime within the last month, somebody wrote up an amazing description
> of the prey model diet.
> It had more than just ratios and percentages, and it was beautifully
> concise and well written. I've searched through the
> archives and I can't find it. If someone else remembers this post,
> could you please sent the link?

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11a. Re: protein percentage?
Posted by: "tinybabypony" bethanyfalter@hotmail.com tinybabypony
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:31 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

I understand why some of you are reluctant to mention to your vet(s)
that you feed a raw diet. However, the more healthy raw-fed pets people
in the veterinary profession see, the more comfortable and supportive
they may become of it. If the only folks that mention they are feeding
raw are the ones who are there with an illness such as GI upset, as
someone mentioned, that will be their frame of reference for raw fed
pets. Change is slow and difficult, but the more good examples they see
of raw-fed pets, the better, IMO.

Just my humble little opinion.

Messages in this topic (11)
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12a. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "emdeefa" mdevlin@aisle10.net emdeefa
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:33 pm ((PDT))

so I was at the grocery store tonight (Market Basket) and apparantly I
wasnt looking hard enough. Actually, I really am not sure how I missed
all this stuff.

For organs, aside from the chicken livers, they had beef liver, beef
kidney, beef heart, and tripe. So it looks like until I find a better
place that I can at least get some variety. I got some beef kidney,
and hopefully he likes it.

I wrote down the cuts of beef/pork that seemed affordable, and was
just searching through the list archives to see whats ok.

They had pork necks, but from what I read in the archives, pork necks
are only ok if they are big? because sometimes they are cut into small
triangles? the necks I saw looked real big, does that mean they are
ok? they looked like they were easily the size of my dogs head (like 2
fists put together in size).

I got pork spare ribs and pork chops. From what I was reading, spare
ribs dont have enough meat, and the pork chops have bones that are too
small? so I was thinking that if I gave a pork chop (with the bone
removed) with a rib or two, that would even things out right? The ribs
seemed plenty big and I think he will love to pick the meat off of them.

Then after a couple days, throw in one of the chicken theighs I have
to get some bone since he cant actually eat the rib bones right?

Some other cuts of meat i saw that seemed cheap were beef chuck roast
and pork butts. Anything special I should know about them?

what about beef feet? should those be considered more like a treat
than a part of a meal? They also had oxtail but from how it was
packaged, it looked like a big 2 pound square. I am assuming its all
sliced up in smaller pieces, which would mean its not safe for him to
eat and it should be avoided right?

these bones scare the crap out of me.

last thing. So i should avoid the tripe since it was the white kind,
right?

Thanks for everyones help. I'll get this eventually.
-Mike

Messages in this topic (18)
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13a. In memory of Harley 10/26/97 thru 07/27/07
Posted by: "cornerstone_bullmastiffs" cornerstone_bullmastiffs@yahoo.com cornerstone_bullmastiffs
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:49 pm ((PDT))

Dear Harley,

Momma's gonna miss you, you precious girl. I have never had anyone
love me as unconditionally as you have over the past 10yrs of your
beautiful life. You have taught me more about life than any school
book or classroom. The world would be a better place if more people
were like you. You were there for me through my first marriage, my
divorce, moving to Peru and then to Tennessee and then getting
married again. You took it all with quiet strength and grace and
stood beside me and loved me through it all, even when I didn't
deserve it. I will never have children and you were the closest I'll
ever have. We have shared so much joy and laughter over the years and
have even shared a few tears. You are my heart and soul and my best
friend. The void your absence has left will never be filled, Harley.
I love you so much. It only been a few hours since you went to be
with God and my heart aches to see you again. The house feels empty
and you weren't there to greet me at the door. I already miss the way
your fur feels and even your smell. I miss the way you get so excited
to see me the you fall over and do a happy dance. If only humans
could communicate that well..... I take comfort in knowing you are
not in anymore more pain and you have no allergies and you can
breathe! Best of you don't have to take anymore pills! I find it no
coincedence that the word DOG is GOD spelled backwards. You were the
mirror image of everything He stands for: strength, grace, love,
forgiveness......I thank God for every moment spent with you Boo-
bear. What a blessing you have been to me. God sent me an Angel here
on earth and it came with brown fur and four legs. I can't thank Him
enough for sharing you with me. I can't wait to see you again. Some
day I know you'll meet me at the pearly gates! Momma loves you Baby
girl!!
Your Momma,
Cheryl

Messages in this topic (2)
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13b. Re: In memory of Harley 10/26/97 thru 07/27/07
Posted by: "michael@brooksweb.org" michael@brooksweb.org newyawkyanx
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:50 pm ((PDT))

here are thoughts of comfort for you
-michael

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 00:58:44 -0000, cornerstone_bullmastiffs wrote
> Dear Harley,
>
> Momma's gonna miss you, you precious girl. I have never had anyone
> love me as unconditionally as you have over the past 10yrs of your
> beautiful life. You have taught me more about life than any school
> book or classroom. The world would be a better place if more people
> were like you. You were there for me through my first marriage, my
> divorce, moving to Peru and then to Tennessee and then getting
> married again. You took it all with quiet strength and grace and
> stood beside me and loved me through it all, even when I didn't
> deserve it. I will never have children and you were the closest I'll
> ever have. We have shared so much joy and laughter over the years and
> have even shared a few tears. You are my heart and soul and my best
> friend. The void your absence has left will never be filled, Harley.
> I love you so much. It only been a few hours since you went to be
> with God and my heart aches to see you again. The house feels empty
> and you weren't there to greet me at the door. I already miss the way
> your fur feels and even your smell. I miss the way you get so excited
> to see me the you fall over and do a happy dance. If only humans
> could communicate that well..... I take comfort in knowing you are
> not in anymore more pain and you have no allergies and you can
> breathe! Best of you don't have to take anymore pills! I find it no
> coincedence that the word DOG is GOD spelled backwards. You were the
> mirror image of everything He stands for: strength, grace, love,
> forgiveness......I thank God for every moment spent with you Boo-
> bear. What a blessing you have been to me. God sent me an Angel here
> on earth and it came with brown fur and four legs. I can't thank Him
> enough for sharing you with me. I can't wait to see you again. Some
> day I know you'll meet me at the pearly gates! Momma loves you Baby
> girl!!
> Your Momma,
> Cheryl
>
>

--

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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14.1. Re: Chicken feet
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:10 pm ((PDT))

Marilyn Neil <ems1classic@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds like a horror story, how can you watch?
*****
I dunno. Doesn't seem horrible to me. The foot is quite dead, quite
detatched from the rest of the bird, which is also dead. No worse I
don't think than eating the heads off Animal Crackers.

Hmmm, maybe there's a connection.

Some of the NOVA footage of big cats tackling zebras etc. is more
grotesque, IMO. Although the big cats are more elegant and graceful in
attack mode than my silly cat is.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (27)
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