[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11841

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. Re: recreational bones
From: Denise Strother

2a. Re: I second the request for a Sample Meal Plan!
From: mwood8402
2b. Re: I second the request for a Sample Meal Plan!
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: A nervous newbie with some specific challenges
From: mwood8402

4a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
From: mlodge
4b. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
From: costrowski75
4c. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
From: costrowski75
4d. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
From: Shella Mansell
4e. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
From: Maiakitas@aol.com

5a. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: Sandee Lee
5b. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: mwood8402
5c. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: Pam Vojtas
5d. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: Morledzep@aol.com
5e. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: Morledzep@aol.com
5f. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: Morledzep@aol.com

6.1. Re: Intro
From: Denise Strother
6.2. Re: Intro
From: Michele Anderson

7a. Re: pawing at mouth after meals
From: Laurie Swanson
7b. Re: pawing at mouth after meals
From: carnesbill

8a. Re: Day # 2....still vomiting!
From: carnesbill
8b. Re: Day # 2....still vomiting!
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: training treats
From: Michael Moore

10a. Re: Mixing meats, etc.
From: carnesbill

11.1. Re: turkey necks
From: betty hinson

12.1. Re: Fish
From: Morledzep@aol.com

Messages
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1.1. Re: recreational bones
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:34 am ((PDT))

Chris, what kind of meal (meat-wise) would this be? How long do you
let the dog eat for? Surely not the 15-20 minutes that some here
recommend? I'm curious because I would love to feed my dog
something like that, that is so engrossing it takes a day to
recuperate!
> Nathalie

Not Chris here, but she is talking about things like heads, pork
shoulders, whole lamb or beef necks, etc. Things that because of
size and/or shape take quite some time to eat. My Pit loves lamb or
goat heads and these take some figuring out. Where do I start, what
do I do now, how do I get that piece out of there? These are the
kind of thoughts a dog that's engrossed in it's meal would ask. The
15 of 20 minute thing is how long you give a dog to start eating
something. Then you pick it up and offer it the next day. I have a
3lb Chihuahua with a pretty severe overbite, it takes him 20 to 30
minutes to eat his fill of a whole pork shoulder roast. It takes the
Pit less than that, unless she is down to the actual shoulder joint,
then working on the bone adds some time. The amount of time it takes
a dog to eat will vary according to the size and dentitia of the dog
and the size an shape of the meal. Denise

Messages in this topic (36)
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2a. Re: I second the request for a Sample Meal Plan!
Posted by: "mwood8402" mwood8402@hotmail.com mwood8402
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:36 am ((PDT))

Chris gave you great advice of course. I just want to add that I too
had a desire for a "sample meal plan" when I was getting started. Now
I know that no such thing exists. Feeding raw gives you the freedom to
tailor the diet to your individual dog. That's what makes it so great
and at the same time so scary at first. We are used to giving our dogs
X amount of "balanced" kibble every day, so the freedom that raw
provides can be shocking. My advice is to just dive in and start
feeding as Chris said. For me, after the first meal it all made sense
and I was able to relax a bit. Though I still measure out portions, I
just can't get over that. ;-)

Good luck!
-Melissa W

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Pam Vojtas" <pam.vojtas@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, I'm new too and can certainly sympathize with the desire for a
simple sample meal plan.
>

Messages in this topic (11)
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2b. Re: I second the request for a Sample Meal Plan!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:43 pm ((PDT))

"Pam Vojtas" <pam.vojtas@...> wrote:
> 1) So I'll use up the already-purchased chicken necks and not
> repeat that purchasing mistake again. But do I have to toss the
ground
> stuff? (i.e. is it inherently bad, or just 'not as good'? )
*****
Feed through your inventory and don't restock. Ground food as part
of a larger body part variety is okay. It's just not optimal.

> 2) What isn't 'edible' bone?
*****
Silly you! Bone that is not eaten is not edible. Varies by dog--so
what else is new? A lamb shank is probably edible by medium size
dogs and up; smaller dogs may be satisfied with nibbling the ends
and the joint Pork bones are almost all of them edible to some
degree. Pork arm or blade roasts offer different bones but both
versions are edible. Theoretically. I've no doubt that pork offers
even the tiniest dog an edible bone.

Is the definition of non-edible: 'if they
> don't attempt to eat it, its not edible'?
*****
No, I'd say if they CAN'T eat it, it's not edible. Dogs often
attempt to eat inedible bones--this is often when tooth damage
happens.

3) So no rec bones at all? A marrow bone (note: I didn't bake so
long as
> to melt the marrow) would keep my boys busy for hours and hours -
great
> for nights when I'm out or when one or the other is off for
training.
*****
Yes, that's my story and I't sticking to it. However, I do
sometimes make exceptions with pups that still wear their baby
teeth. Once the permanent teeth come in though, I don't offer rec
bones. Femurs, with or without intact marrow, really are tooth
breakers. I have a friend who roasts her dog's chew bones. Why do
you guys do that? Honestly, I don't get the cooking part.

Some people give their dogs knuckle bones on the assumption they are
less dangerous. As with everything raw, you get to choose.

So
> do I stick with chewies like their bully sticks - also popular,
but at
> $3 a pop, pretty expensive.
*****
I dole out cow feet, they're as close to "rec" as I get because for
my dogs they are mostly edible. A good workout generally takes the
foot down to a section of bare cannon bone; that's when the ride is
over.

> Oh and just a couple comments, lest you think I'm not a
responsible dog
> owner :-)
*****
How irresponsible can you be--you're here!

Its just I don't want to risk injury and so we have
> been 'cutting back', adding more low-impact exercise in addition to
> training (longer and additional walks adding some hills (well, golf
> course greens)) and taking away any possibility that he scarfs up
a bowl
> of Fancy Feast. Its working, and yes, I am being patient.
*****
That, as they say about the hokey-pokey, is what it's all about.
Full lifestyle change, over time. A chubby dog doesn't just risk
sports injury, it risks weakened joints and heart and liver and
kidneys every day. It risks diabetes. So even if he totally flunks
out of agility, you're doing him a big favor by taking the load off.

>> 'reward BIG', give 'em a jackpot, toss a whole slab of chicken
breast,
> use high rates of reward, for big behaviours use highest regarded
> treats, etc.
*****
Yeah, I think this is more for the human's need than the dog's.
Most beginning handlers are pathologically unable to praise their
dogs. They are self-conscious and their timing sucks. That's part
of training--learning to get over oneself and start communicating
with the dog. So the beginner is taught to emote, exaggerate, be
happy for cryin' out loud.

IMO, dogs get off on quantity not quality. One big hunk of chicken
breast is less gratifying than four cubes cut from the same hunk,
fed one after another after another like a busted slot machine.
Compare "CLUNK" to "clinkclinkclinkclinkclink....clinkclink".

Tossing that hunk of chicken gets the human to interact instead of
standing there like a tree. The human honestly, openly reacting
probably is a greater value to the dog than the food.

Anyway, people have already nailed the advice here--small bits of
whatever turns the dog on.

Any suggestions on how to
> incorporate raw foods as training treats, though?
*****
I mostly don't worry. My only concern is that I can stash the treat
in my mouth for obedience work; for other sports I hardly use
anything and I don't do agility so I don't have to be concerned with
its specific needs. For obedience I use roasted beef heart.
Chris O
(Oh, and yeah, start working on those kitties.)

Messages in this topic (11)
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3a. Re: A nervous newbie with some specific challenges
Posted by: "mwood8402" mwood8402@hotmail.com mwood8402
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:37 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jbronwen" <bronwenjones@...>
wrote:
I've started raw by offering pieces of
> chicken breast (the grissly end), pieces of chicken back and pieces
> of turkey neck. He does NOT chew them. He just scarfs them whole.
*********
You need to feed bigger hunks. Buy a whole chicken, chop it into
quarters or halves and serve it that way. I think you can agree that
there is no way for him to swallow a quarter of a chicken without
some chewing. :-) Even without perfect teeth, I think you will be
surprised at how much he can handle. Let him eat some of it then
pick it up and put in back in the refrigerator until the next meal.

> Second specific challenge Satchel has: I have to feed him several
> times per day, esp. breaking up evening meal into two or he wakes at
> 5 am vomitting bile from 'sour stomach'.
*********
Start reducing the number of meals and don't feed him at the same
times every day. If he throws up some bile, that is normal. But it
will go away once he learns not to expect food at certain times.

> I'm also concerned about the cost. I did try a commercial product
> for a few weeks but at $4/lb I can't afford that. What are my best
> options, given his chewing issues?
*********
Don't bother with commercial stuff. Let him try real food. Chicken
bones are soft, so try those first. If he can't handle them, you can
break them up for him with a hammer, but don't cut up his food for
him. Even with only a few teeth he should be able to tear off hunks
of any meat.

>I feel like I'm failing before I've even begun!
**********
You are doing fine! I hope my advice helped you.

-Melissa W

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
Posted by: "mlodge" mmlodge@att.net mlodge
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:38 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
...
>
> Certainly it's easiest to just not do it.
>
> What I fail to understand is why the meal simply cannot be left to
> defrost on the counter? Why must the meat--if it cannot be fed frozen--
> be fed at a specific time? Why can't mealtime wait until the meat is
> defrosted? Meal TIME should be when the meal arrives, not when the
> clock says so.
> Chris O
>

I agree with you, but then again, that was not the poster's question.

Melissa

Messages in this topic (14)
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4b. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:25 pm ((PDT))

Maiakitas@... wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Thanks for the response, but actually the original question was
regarding a
> freshness issue. My dogs won't touch anything not fresh,
*****
Oh right, duh.
Sorry.

Have you been able to figure out why they are so stubborn?

I realized it was only when the meat was
> not really fresh, just like cats)
*****
I have only fed raw to two cats, one switched as an adult, the other
at 3 months. Both, from day one, were not only willing to eat "old"
food but also thrilled to. Is this "fresh or death" dichotomy a cat
thing that my cats haven't heard about, or is it a learned behavior
I somehow managed to not teach?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (14)
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4c. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:27 pm ((PDT))

"mlodge" <mmlodge@...> wrote:
>> I agree with you, but then again, that was not the poster's
question.
*****
Yeah, duh hey?
Brain flatulence for sure.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (14)
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4d. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
Posted by: "Shella Mansell" shellabella76@sbcglobal.net shellaroo76
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:30 pm ((PDT))

We thaw on the counter. I even set the timer on the microwave to remember it is out. That is a good use for the microwave for RAW feeding in my opinion. My very large Chessy eats partial frozen turkey neck, chicken backs, ect. Otherwise she will swallow almost whole.

Shella
Schnauzer and Chessy

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Messages in this topic (14)
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4e. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
Posted by: "Maiakitas@aol.com" Maiakitas@aol.com maiakitas
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:45 pm ((PDT))

Chris,

I'm not really sure about the cat and fresh thingy, it is just that I have
heard it mentioned frequently on the raw cat list that many cats will only eat
fresh meat. Not all, but many.

I'm sending my animals to the "Chris O Camp of Rawfeeding." I'm packing their
duffel bags, oops Akitas, don't carry duffel bags, they carry sachels, and
they should be there on the 9:00 train. :o)

Regards,
Carla

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Messages in this topic (14)
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5a. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:39 am ((PDT))

No, he gets plenty of bone in his chicken meals. You can (and should) feed
a lot of meaty meals without bone.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Mike Devlin" <mdevlin@aisle10.net>
> I think part of my confusion is that, say I started feeding him beef,
since
> the beef bones are too hard, wouldn't I need to give him something else so
> that he gets his share of bone? like if I gave him a nice meaty cut of
beef,
> let him tear everything off the bone, then take the bone away. Should I
> maybe supplement these meals with like a chicken theigh?

Messages in this topic (13)
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5b. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "mwood8402" mwood8402@hotmail.com mwood8402
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:39 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Devlin" <mdevlin@...> wrote:
> Or am i maybe overthinking this, and that all I need to do is not
worry
> about it on the days that I feed beef? and just have to have some
days that
> have more edible bone?
*********
Yes and yes.

>Am i just not looking hard enough,
> or is it just rare for the supermarket to have anything more, and
that I
> really need to go to an ethnic market or a butcher?
***********
I think it really depends on the supermarket. Some have more variety
than others. It seems to me that more "low end" supermarkets carry a
larger variety of parts.

-Melissa W

Messages in this topic (13)
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5c. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "Pam Vojtas" pam.vojtas@datacore.com pvojtas
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:14 pm ((PDT))

Interesting note - I have been cruising the meat section of my big chain
grocery store and started noticing a lot more 'parts' - beef hearts,
pig's feet, tripe, etc. and mentioned it to the meat manager. He said he
was ordering them because he had several requests from dog owners! So
maybe asking your local grocery meat manager might work.

Pam (just starting out too)

________________________________

From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Mike Devlin

Ideally it would be nice if I could obtain everything he will need for
his
diet from the supermarket when we do our normal shopping? but I cant
seem to
find any organs other than chicken liver. Am i just not looking hard
enough,
or is it just rare for the supermarket to have anything more, and that I
really need to go to an ethnic market or a butcher?

- Mike

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Messages in this topic (13)
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5d. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:17 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/25/2007 10:29:23 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mdevlin@aisle10.net writes:

Or am i maybe overthinking this, and that all I need to do is not worry
about it on the days that I feed beef? and just have to have some days that
have more edible bone?

Mike.. you answered your own question.. see, it's really not hard to feed
raw..

Catherine R.

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5e. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:29 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/25/2007 10:29:23 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mdevlin@aisle10.net writes:

Am i just not looking hard enough,
or is it just rare for the supermarket to have anything more, and that I
really need to go to an ethnic market or a butcher?

Mike,

there really are other grocery stores that have more interesting body parts,
mainstream grocery stores are successful because they only stock the things
that 'MOST' people want to buy. Specialty items are usually only found at
specialty kinda stores.

If you want a good variety of organ meats then ethnic grocery stores are the
way to go if you can't find a meat buying group or co-op in your area.

Catherine R.

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5f. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:37 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/25/2007 10:39:48 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mwood8402@hotmail.com writes:

I think it really depends on the supermarket. Some have more variety
than others. It seems to me that more "low end" supermarkets carry a
larger variety of parts.

Melissa,

not all of us are upper crusty rich folks that only shop at "high end"
groceries.. and yes.. i'm offended.

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (13)
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6.1. Re: Intro
Posted by: "Denise Strother" denisestrother@yahoo.com denisestrother
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:39 am ((PDT))

Is there anything I might need to know specifically for feeding small
dog?
Michele

Hi Michele,
I feed 3 dogs. They weigh 3lbs, 5lbs and 45lbs. The smaller ones eat
the same things as the bigger one. Just feed her, she will let you
know what bones she can eat and what she can't. This may change as she
gets older and stronger. Make sure her food isn't too cold too! Some
small dogs can have their body temp lowered by to much cold food.
Denise

Messages in this topic (124)
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6.2. Re: Intro
Posted by: "Michele Anderson" crunchymommy@gmail.com psycho_loggie
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:31 pm ((PDT))

Thanks. Good to know about cold food.

Michele

On 7/25/07, Denise Strother <denisestrother@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Make sure her food isn't too cold too! Some
> small dogs can have their body temp lowered by to much cold food.
> Denise
>
>

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7a. Re: pawing at mouth after meals
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:17 pm ((PDT))

My dog rubs his snout along the bottom of our bed or the carpet
(lovely, I know...) after most meals. I believe he's cleaning his face
as well. Hopefully that's it for yours, too. Let us know what you
think or how it resolves.

Laurie

Messages in this topic (5)
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7b. Re: pawing at mouth after meals
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:18 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, outcats4@... wrote:
>
> His ears are better, but now Ive noticed that after
> each meal, he paws and paws at his snout.

Barb,
If you think he is pawing at an irritation and not just cleaning his
snout, run your finger along the roof of his mouth and make sure
there is not a bone stuck up there between teeth on the opposite
sides of his mouth. You might also run your finger along the gum
line all around his mouth to see if you feel anything odd.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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8a. Re: Day # 2....still vomiting!
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:18 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cresco299" <gentry.jeffrey@...>
wrote:
>
> But if you
> really need to feed raw stick to only, the grass fed, organically
> grown animals and stay away from chicken! DO NOT TRUST THE
> COMMERCIALLY GROWN ANIMALS.
>
> Is this guy crazy or is there in merit to what he's saying?
>
He's definately loony. "Grass fed" and "organic" are nothing more
than marketing gimicks to charge more money for the same product.
Hundreds of millions of meals are served each day with regular stuff
and we are all fine. :) :) :) If it's OK for humans, It's ok for
the dogs. Don't worry about it. Feed a variety of animal parts
from a vareity of animals and you will be ok.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (13)
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8b. Re: Day # 2....still vomiting!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:00 pm ((PDT))

"carnesbill" <carnesw@...> wrote:
> He's definately loony. "Grass fed" and "organic" are nothing more
> than marketing gimicks to charge more money for the same product.
*****
No, actually they are not. They represent agricultural alternatives
to corporate farms. While "organic" may not offer as much as its
proponents would have us believe, grassfed/finished and fully pastured
livestock do present a notably different product. In either case
though, buying the product and not the hype is paramount. An educated
consumer can indeed get her money's worth.

It is short-sighted to dismiss out of hand the alternatives that are
available, not only for ourselves but our pets. That you choose to
feed the "regular stuff" simply frees up more of the "good stuff" for
thos who choose otherwise. You are not necessarily making a poor
choice; neither are they.
Chris O

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9a. Re: training treats
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:19 pm ((PDT))

>>So here I was following instructions, with string cheese, deli chicken
breast and roast beef, hotdogs, liver chunks, etc and turning my little
athlete into a sausage! I have learned the error of my ways.... I've
gone more natural, used miniscule treats, etc. Any suggestions on how to
incorporate raw foods as training treats, though? <<

Pam -- training treats are such a teeny, tiny amount (done properly -- LOL) of your dog's diet as to warrant not much, if any, thought or change in what you're doing. I train in agility, rally, formal obedience, and dabble in tracking and herding from time to time. I use whatever I grab as treats -- string cheese, garlic hotdogs, commercial treats, leftover "whatever" meat, cooked beef heart. IOW, I don't worry about treats; but I do, as you found out, use very small bits of "whatever" treat I'm employing. I don't worry about "raw" in my treats, and it works fine for us.

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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10a. Re: Mixing meats, etc.
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:32 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vadaski16" <vadaski16@...> wrote:
>
> but here's my main concern (for now): is it okay to mix two kinds
of
> meat (i.e. chicken + pork) in one meal?

It's perfectly Ok, but I would suggest you wait until your dog has
had several meals of each of the meats by themselves to help
eliminate digestive problems.

> and would you recommend adding veggie mush to his food every once
> in a while?

NO

> oh and what about fish? with the bone, it's still an RMB right? so
> should i still mix it with muscle meat?

Fish is fine. Yes, feed it with bone. No need to mix it with
anything if it is large enough to make a meal.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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11.1. Re: turkey necks
Posted by: "betty hinson" b_hinson@sbcglobal.net paps4jesus
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:32 pm ((PDT))

speaking of raw turkey necks Does anyone feed this to small breeds like Papillons?
Betty Hinson
b_hinson@sbcglobal.net
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me Phil 4:13

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12.1. Re: Fish
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:15 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/25/2007 8:22:22 AM Pacific Standard Time,
michelleraia1@yahoo.com writes:

We are planning a deep sea fishing trip in the Gulf.....What Gulf fish
is appropriate to feed? Specifically, are king fish and shark okay.
Also, how often can you feed fish?

***any fish is just fine.. it's all protien variety. Most of the good Omega
3 fish are cold/deep water fish. So most anything that you're going to catch
in the gulf are probably not going to be those type of fish.

But, we all like a variety of meats for our wolves in dog clothing.. i
certainly wouldn't replace the normal diet with fish, but adding fish once or twice
a month maybe a little more is just hunky dory.

Remember that most fish is contaminated in some way, there are websites to
look up the specific type of fish to give you an idea of what that type of fish
may be contaminated with.. ChrisO would have the links.. or you can search the
archives, i don't have them. Fish is good variety, but because of the
possibility of contamination it shouldn't have a major role in a dog's diet.

Catherine R.

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