[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11847

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Beef Trachea
From: ginny wilken

2.1. Newbie
From: cosmosis62
2.2. Re: Newbie
From: linoleum5017

3a. Re: meat turning brown
From: mousegirls

4a. Re: Vomiting up all raw food?
From: v_rod_or
4b. Re: Vomiting up all raw food?
From: costrowski75

5a. Re: missing stuff in diet
From: Misty
5b. ADMIN/Re: missing stuff in diet
From: costrowski75

6a. Re: Another (less severe) vomiting question
From: Shannon Hully

7a. Re: Newbie don't know my number yet
From: Cheryl
7b. Re: Newbie don't know my number yet
From: costrowski75

8. Re: Questions RE rawfeeding GSP Sambuca--now he has 'die' 'a...
From: Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com

9a. how do i encourage a new to raw dog to eat bones?
From: Eloise Stanley
9b. Re: how do i encourage a new to raw dog to eat bones?
From: Sandee Lee

10a. Chicken feet
From: Cheryl
10b. Re: Chicken feet
From: Morledzep@aol.com
10c. Re: Chicken feet
From: costrowski75
10d. Re: Chicken feet
From: Cheryl
10e. Re: Chicken feet
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

11a. Constipation
From: Cheryl
11b. Re: Constipation
From: Sandee Lee
11c. Re: Constipation
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

12a. cooked bones
From: Cheryl
12b. Re: cooked bones
From: Sandee Lee
12c. Re: cooked bones
From: bluefilly

Messages
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1a. Re: Beef Trachea
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:58 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 26, 2007, at 12:54 PM, Marjorie Trebino wrote:

> Jennifer, I was wondering the same thing. The one thing I did
> hear is that
> you might want to grind it up as it is very tough. I would be
> interested to
> know if everyone thinks you should grind it. It is a muscle? Margie

It's cartilage. You can grind it, but it's a heck of a good chew.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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2.1. Newbie
Posted by: "cosmosis62" JLW05@aol.com cosmosis62
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:28 pm ((PDT))

Hello. I am a new member and the owner of a 3 year old 12 pound
pap. I have been feeding him raw for about two years and have been
happy with the results. Before starting raw feeding, my dog's teeth
were collecting tarter, he had oxylate crystals and would scratch
himself continously. Now his teeth are tarter free, he is not having
a problem with crystals and he no longer scratches constantly.
However, it has come to my attention that I have been too limited in
my approach and I want to correct this. I have been feeding my boy
chicken wings, liver. ground beef, canned sardines and canned salmon
with an occasional egg, yogurt or some veggies. I also give him a
supplement and a teaspon of organic apple cider vinegar several times
a week as I read that this can sometimes helpful to dogs who produce
crytals.As a treat, he also gets a bully stick once a week. Yesterday
I fed him a short rib and today purchased but have not yet fed pork
spareribs. Like many people making changes, I feel a bit nervous
about these new bones. I almost bought pork necks but they seemed so
sharp that I got scared. I know that these bones should be fine and
won't pierce his intestines like I fear but I need some reassurance.
Also,as my dog is 12 lbs and these bones weigh half a lb or more,
they far exceed the recommended amount of food he should eat a day.
Also, my guy is not the type of dog to eat only what fills him up -
he will eat until he bursts. Thanks
Jan

Messages in this topic (93)
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2.2. Re: Newbie
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:56 pm ((PDT))

Jan,

There are lots of things to learn before you act! Which cuts are good
for your dog? How long to wait before changing to another meat? What
bones are good, and not so good? I recommend you read the posts on
this list for a week or two, REALLY READ, and look up the website
links for specific topics. THEN, when you feel more confident, go
ahead, slowly....

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cosmosis62" <JLW05@...> wrote:
>
> Hello. I am a new member and the owner of a 3 year old 12 pound
> pap. Like many people making changes, I feel a bit nervous
> about these new bones. I almost bought pork necks but they seemed
so
> sharp that I got scared.

> Jan
>

Messages in this topic (93)
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3a. Re: meat turning brown
Posted by: "mousegirls" mousegirls@gmail.com ladysown
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:29 pm ((PDT))

exposure to oxygen will cause that to happen.
OR it could be old meat but that tends to turn greenish more than brown.

outcats4@aol.com wrote:
>
> I just bought a package of meat from the foodstore, ground beef, and
> it went
> from very pink to very brown overnight - does anyone know what might
> cause
> this? It was supposed to be antibiotic, hormone free meat.
>
> barb
>
> .
>
>

--

annette
http://ladysown.blogspot.com/
http://rileysowner.livejournal.com/
http://vellengaviews.blogspot.com/

"What a man is alone on his knees before God, that he is, and no more".-Robert Murray M'Cheyne
"I believe that prayer is the measure of the man, spiritually, in a way that nothing else is, so that how we pray is as important a question as we can ever face"- J.I. Packer

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: Vomiting up all raw food?
Posted by: "v_rod_or" v_rod_or@yahoo.com v_rod_or
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:29 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

I think Spike is okay with the bones. He chews them for a long time
before he swallows. I've inspected his mouth afterwards and haven't
seen any sign of injury.

Still, I'm concerned. Should I just keep feeding him raw and letting
him vomit stuff up? Maybe feed him cooked, boneless stuff for a while
until he recovers? Or...? Any advice you can offer would be greatly
appreciated.

Messages in this topic (7)
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4b. Re: Vomiting up all raw food?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:17 pm ((PDT))

"v_rod_or" <v_rod_or@...> wrote:
> Still, I'm concerned. Should I just keep feeding him raw and
letting
> him vomit stuff up?
*****
My advice would be to start over. Retreat to easily digested meat
(probably skinless chicken breast) and easy to eat bones (chicken
ribs, conveniently attached to aforementioned chicken breast) and
feed less food more often. Make sure the chicken is as minimally
processed as possible--READ the package to make sure the meat isn't
enhanced or injected or "glazed". If you have to try boneless for a
while, you certainly can. Your goal is to get him stabilized.
Perhaps you may have to move to a different protein altogether.

Make sure he's not getting into other things; you might have to visit
the vet to find out if there are mechanical issues preventing him
from digesting his food. And you may have to consider that stress is
the cause of his vomiting. I don't know. These things don't just
happen...there's a reason somewhere.

Feeding cooked meat won't make the meat more digestible; it will be
less digestible.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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5a. Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "Misty" MizzBuckaroo@onewest.net mizzbuckaroo
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:58 pm ((PDT))

From Merriam- Webster's Online Dictionary........
low-end
One entry found for low-end.

Main Entry: low-end
Pronunciation: 'lO-"end
Function: adjective
: of, relating to, or being the lowest priced merchandise in a
manufacturer's line; broadly : INEXPENSIVE

Misty @ Rodeo Ranch USA
(aka Panzino's Ranch for Wayward Dogs)
*******************************

> Melissa,
>
> i'm not going to appologize.. "low end" to me means second class..
not as
> good.. and even lowly community college students should have a
better vocabulary
> and be able to find less offensive ways to express themselves.

> Catherine R. (slapping my wrist so ChrisO won't yell at me)
>

Messages in this topic (17)
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5b. ADMIN/Re: missing stuff in diet
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:18 pm ((PDT))

Okey dokey, I think we can dispense with the high end/low end debate
now. Let's move on.
Thanks.
Chris O
Mod Squad

Messages in this topic (17)
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6a. Re: Another (less severe) vomiting question
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:59 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "millser25" <millser25@...> wrote:
>
> My 18 month old GSD has been on raw for about a year. The last couple
> of weeks he's been eating grass and vomiting it up in the morning and
> evening before feedings. Just in the last few days he's started just
> all out vomiting with no apparent provocation. Nothing comes up but
> some yellowish foamy clear liquid (maybe a third of a cup). While
> walking him yesterday, he kept making these noises like vomit was
> surprising him in his throat and he was swallowing it back down.
> His poo looks good. Although he did have one event of violently
> bloody diarrhea two weeks ago that cleared up with he next poo.
> He remains happy, spirited, and full of energy.

It's probably just a bile thing, anticipating food and not getting it
when his internal clock tells him he should (that clock can be VERY
wrong, hehe) but keep an eye on the other end. My GSD ended up getting
EPI, which is actually genetic in the breed, at 18 months. It can come
up at any age in dogs. If he is having normal poos he likely does not
have it so keep your fingers crossed that he just thinks he ought to be
being fed and go with the suggestions of not feeding so by-the-
clock. :-)

Shannon in Michigan

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Re: Newbie don't know my number yet
Posted by: "Cheryl" parkbunny@verizon.net vessels13
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:28 pm ((PDT))

not sure if I did this right but I gave her a wing, piece with the bone
and the skin. I read someone said something about taking the skin off.
Was I suppose to?

Cheryl

Laura Atkinson wrote:
> You're at the first step of a big change.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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7b. Re: Newbie don't know my number yet
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:27 pm ((PDT))

Cheryl <parkbunny@...> wrote:
>
> not sure if I did this right but I gave her a wing, piece with the
bone
> and the skin. I read someone said something about taking the skin
off.
> Was I suppose to?
*****
Leave the skin on. Trying to skin a wing is a lost cause. However,
next time--feed something larger/something meatier than a wing.

I recommend you buy a whole boid and hack it into convenient
servings: a wing cut with a chunk of shoulder attached would be
nicely meaty. As for serving size, my 10lb cat often gets a wing
attached to a bit of shoulder meat. A slightly larger meal than her
weight warrants but a good workout and a healthy hunk of meat ("hunk"
being entirely relative).

If you NEED to take the skin off, there are easier pieces to tackle.

Remember, if one meal is "too large", you can comfortably remedy the
problem by feeding a subsequent meal that's "too small". It all
works out.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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8. Re: Questions RE rawfeeding GSP Sambuca--now he has 'die' 'a...
Posted by: "Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com" Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com irishcateyes1
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:58 pm ((PDT))

Thanks, Giselle!! Great advice and encouragement. :) Today was better. He
still has diarreha but not so bad--tonight is the true test as it always seems
worse at night in the crate. Also, last night he threw up and it was the
same color as poop with bone in it and undigested chicken gizzards. Horrid
smell--like poop. I hope this is normal and not a back up. He vomitted about 6
times after that outside--I noticed that the last few times were yellow bile and
I was not too concerned. He has never done that before and didn't do it all
today either. I did give him SEBP 2X today--I bought it at a local natural
co-op here this afternoon. I hope it will start to take affect soon. I didn't
have any ground meat so I just mixed it with chicken blood and served it with
his chicken quarter and the 2nd time I just mixed it with water and he lapped
it right up. :)Thanks again for everything!! Tamatha :)





Any dog can teach a child responsibility and commitment.

A German Shepherd Dog will show the child the meaning
of dedication.

"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life,
his love, his leader. He will be yours faithful and true, to the last beat of
his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." --Unknown

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Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. how do i encourage a new to raw dog to eat bones?
Posted by: "Eloise Stanley" e.l.o.i.s.e@sbcglobal.net faintatheart
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:58 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES PLEASE.***

how do I encourage a new to raw dog to eat bones?
eloise has been on raw for a week and I have yet to see her eat a
bone. her poo is very very runny and I am hoping if i can get her to
eat some bones it will help firm things up. do you think they will
firm up soon as she adjusts to raw with out bones? I am only feeding
turkey right now while we start off. I have offered turkey breast
with some back and ribs attached which she attempted and carefully
and skillfully pulled meat away from the bones. I have also offered
turkey wings that were just looked at during meal times. hmm
any advise would be appreciated.
tia

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: how do i encourage a new to raw dog to eat bones?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:27 pm ((PDT))

Try chicken? Softer bones! How old and what size is she? Does she have
tooth problems that would prevent chomping on bone?

Turkey may just be a bit too hard for a beginner, of course depending on
size and age. You could try smashing the rib bones a bit. Wings are far
too bony.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Eloise Stanley" <e.l.o.i.s.e@sbcglobal.net>
> how do I encourage a new to raw dog to eat bones?
> eloise has been on raw for a week and I have yet to see her eat a
> bone. her poo is very very runny and I am hoping if i can get her to
> eat some bones it will help firm things up. do you think they will
> firm up soon as she adjusts to raw with out bones? I am only feeding
> turkey right now while we start off. I have offered turkey breast
> with some back and ribs attached which she attempted and carefully
> and skillfully pulled meat away from the bones. I have also offered
> turkey wings that were just looked at during meal times.

Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Chicken feet
Posted by: "Cheryl" parkbunny@verizon.net vessels13
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:59 pm ((PDT))

I saw chicken feet at my grocery store. Can a toy poodle eat these as is?
cheryl
--

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Messages in this topic (22)
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10b. Re: Chicken feet
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:04 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/26/2007 8:00:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
parkbunny@verizon.net writes:

I saw chicken feet at my grocery store. Can a toy poodle eat these as is?

cheryl,

yep.. probably be more than a snack.. but they are just as good for a toy
poodle as they are for my wolfdogs..

Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (22)
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10c. Re: Chicken feet
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:29 pm ((PDT))

Cheryl <parkbunny@...> wrote:
>
> I saw chicken feet at my grocery store. Can a toy poodle eat these as
is?
*****
You betcha. Big fun.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (22)
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10d. Re: Chicken feet
Posted by: "Cheryl" parkbunny@verizon.net vessels13
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:35 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

how do I know how much meat is enough for a toy poodle of 6 pounds? In
English. i.e. ounces? how much meat do you determine is on a piece of
the chicken wing to know if that's a meal? is it the whole chicken wing
or a piece of the third of the wing that you feed and call it a meal?
.....Cheryl

Morledzep@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/26/2007 8:00:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> parkbunny@verizon.net writes:
>
> I saw chicken feet at my grocery store. Can a toy poodle eat these as is?
>
>
>
> cheryl,
>
> yep.. probably be more than a snack.. but they are just as good for a toy
> poodle as they are for my wolfdogs..
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (22)
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10e. Re: Chicken feet
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:08 pm ((PDT))

I would say it's up to the toy poodle. My great danes love the chicken feet, they are like candy here at this house.
I would ask your dog, and see what it says:)
Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (22)
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11a. Constipation
Posted by: "Cheryl" parkbunny@verizon.net vessels13
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:27 pm ((PDT))

Does feeding raw cause constipation?
Cheryl
--

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (15)
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11b. Re: Constipation
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:35 pm ((PDT))

Only if you feed too much bone.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Cheryl" <parkbunny@verizon.net>

> Does feeding raw cause constipation?

Messages in this topic (15)
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11c. Re: Constipation
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:10 pm ((PDT))

No.
Boy, you ask easy questions:)

Now, when you first start the raw diet, alot of people notice, that thier dogs don't go to the bathroom as often, sometimes not even for a day or two, poop, that is, and that is normal. On the raw diet, your dog uses all the nutrients it needs from the food and only discards what it doesn't. And it likes the raw diet and needs alot of what it has to offer and rarely discards alot, so it does take some time for it to have some to discard. Hense the need to go less and you poopscoop less, or wait a day or two, and it goes to powder, and you can just stomp on it, and it is gone:)

Also, when you are working out the kinks in the diet, say the meat to organ or the bone to meat ratio, some times the poos can get a little runny, you might have to tweek the diet a little, that's where this board comes in real handy, tell everyone here what you are feeding, how often, and what the results are, and they can help you figure out what to do to make it better.

Hope that helps.
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (15)
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12a. cooked bones
Posted by: "Cheryl" parkbunny@verizon.net vessels13
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:28 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

Are pressure cooker cooked bones considered a type of cooked bone that
should not be fed? if so, there are recipes I see people feeding that
use the pressure cooker and they say those bones are okay? Why is that?
--

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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12b. Re: cooked bones
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:47 pm ((PDT))

Pressure cooked, any kind of cooked bones are not appropriate. I don't know
why anyone would say cooked bones are ok...they are not. Cooked bones are
dangerous, sharp, cause impactions. There are many recipes for cooked foods
but that doesn't make them ok.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Cheryl" <parkbunny@verizon.net>

> Are pressure cooker cooked bones considered a type of cooked bone that
> should not be fed? if so, there are recipes I see people feeding that
> use the pressure cooker and they say those bones are okay? Why is that?

Messages in this topic (4)
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12c. Re: cooked bones
Posted by: "bluefilly" bluefilly@gmail.com bluefillyausi
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:09 pm ((PDT))

imho, cooked is cooked. cooked bones can splinter and cause problems.
but some people feed cooked bones and never have any problems with
them.

i remember feeding a cooked chop bone to a cat, and he got an abscess
inside his mouth when it pierced his cheek inside. needed vet
attention. before i knew better :-)

i guess if pressure cooking causes the bone to totally fall apart, it
would be safe.

kim

On 27/07/07, Cheryl <parkbunny@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Are pressure cooker cooked bones considered a type of cooked bone that
> should not be fed? if so, there are recipes I see people feeding that
> use the pressure cooker and they say those bones are okay? Why is that?

--
--------
My inferiority complex is not as good as yours.
Robin Banks
bluefilly@gmail.com

Messages in this topic (4)
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