Feed Pets Raw Food: [rawfeeding] Digest Number 11843

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Raw Chicken
From: kristinasantes
1b. Re: Raw Chicken
From: Chia
1c. Re: Raw Chicken
From: Sandee Lee
1d. Re: Raw Chicken
From: kristinasantes
1e. Re: Raw Chicken
From: Sandee Lee

2a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Last Question, Promise-For Today
From: doreenchui
2b. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Last Question, Promise-For Today
From: Chia
2c. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Last Question, Promise-For Today
From: Sandee Lee
2d. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Last Question, Promise-For Today
From: costrowski75

3a. Starting out a Tibetan Spaniel on rawfeeding
From: susanne_webber
3b. Re: Starting out a Tibetan Spaniel on rawfeeding
From: Chia
3c. Re: Starting out a Tibetan Spaniel on rawfeeding
From: Sandee Lee
3d. Re: Starting out a Tibetan Spaniel on rawfeeding
From: costrowski75

4. Question from Newbie
From: delcaste

5.1. Metabolism - WAS: Re: recreational bones
From: Nathalie Poulin
5.2. Re: Metabolism - WAS: Re: recreational bones
From: Sandee Lee

6. Dehydrated Liver considerations
From: ychinook

7a. Re: help for IBS
From: Sandee Lee
7b. Re: help for IBS
From: Nathalie Poulin

8a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
From: Shannon Hully
8b. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
From: costrowski75

9a. Re: Duck? How rich?
From: Nathalie Poulin

10. Questions RE rawfeeding GSP Sambuca--now he has 'die' 'a' 'rear' ha
From: Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com

11.1. Re: turkey necks
From: Rebecca Little

12a. Newbie here
From: paperfibe

Messages
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1a. Raw Chicken
Posted by: "kristinasantes" kristinasantes@yahoo.com kristinasantes
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:51 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

Thank you very much,
Kristina

Messages in this topic (10)
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1b. Re: Raw Chicken
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:04 pm ((PDT))

I am pretty new to the group. I bought at Trader Jo's some raw chicken
drumsticks and whole raw chicken for my 3 years old boxer. Can I just
give it the way it is without worring that she is going to chock on
chicken bones?
#### I would definitely give a dog new to raw a half or whole chicken...to
train him how to eat properly since he will not know exactly what to do.
With a small drumstick only, he may gulp it.

In time, once he teaches himself how to chomp, gulp, tear, as nature
designed him to, you will be able to gauge whether or not he can be offered
smaller parts from time to time.

BUT, that is with your careful but discreet observation ... your judgement.
It is always a case of 'know thy dog' . That phrase will be earned with
time.

Take the whole or half chicken, depending on how large your dog. Perhaps
slash the flesh a bit so he can see it is meat, and let him discover how
lovely REAL food is. If he refuses it. Don't make a fuss, remove after a
short while, and offer the next day.

Chia & Ricco
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Messages in this topic (10)
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1c. Re: Raw Chicken
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:12 pm ((PDT))

Yes you can, Kristina. Probably the majority of the over 9000 members of
this list feed chicken!! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "kristinasantes" <kristinasantes@yahoo.com>
I am pretty new to the group. I bought at Trader Jo's some raw chicken
drumsticks and whole raw chicken for my 3 years old boxer. Can I just
give it the way it is without worring that she is going to chock on
chicken bones?

Messages in this topic (10)
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1d. Re: Raw Chicken
Posted by: "kristinasantes" kristinasantes@yahoo.com kristinasantes
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:34 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Yes you can, Kristina. Probably the majority of the over 9000
members of
> this list feed chicken!! :)
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "kristinasantes" <kristinasantes@...>
> I am pretty new to the group. I bought at Trader Jo's some raw
chicken
> drumsticks and whole raw chicken for my 3 years old boxer. Can I just
> give it the way it is without worring that she is going to chock on
> chicken bones?
>
I have been giving her chicken breasts with no bones. I thought it
used to be said that dogs can choke on small chicken bones. Please
correct me if i am wrong. Can I give just a whole chicken wihh all the
bones there?
Sorry, I am relly new to this, but I have best wishes for me dog :)

Kristina

Messages in this topic (10)
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1e. Re: Raw Chicken
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:43 pm ((PDT))

Yes, the whole chicken with all the bones...as long as they are raw!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "kristinasantes" <kristinasantes@yahoo.com>
>
I have been giving her chicken breasts with no bones. I thought it
used to be said that dogs can choke on small chicken bones. Please
correct me if i am wrong. Can I give just a whole chicken wihh all the
bones there?

Messages in this topic (10)
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2a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Last Question, Promise-For Today
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:51 pm ((PDT))

I started on raw about 2 months ago. My fussy whippet doesn't eat
anything for long . Kibbles and raw inclusive. I been feeding raw
chicken, beef, mutton. Sometimes 1 kind aday and sometimes I mix 2
kinds. He eats for 2 days and stop eating for 1 or 2 days. I keep
throwing meat away. Raw is in the morning and evening he gets Abady.
Pls advise.
Doreen

Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Last Question, Promise-For Today
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:02 pm ((PDT))

### fussy dogs are made, not born, I stopped trying to please my dog LONG
ago and he gets what's offered and goes hungry till 24 hours later if he
doesn't care to eat it , period.

Of course, this is said assuming your dog is healthy, with no teeth/oral
issues of course.

Are you saying you are feeding raw & kibble? If so, why? Kibble truly is a
horrible product and should be discarded entirely. Is he digesting the
variety properly? Any digestive upsets with so much variety after only two
months? How old is he? Truly we need more details. But, the one thing you
may wish to do, or perhaps, 'should' do, is create a hungrier dog. Feeding
once a day is a much better way to encourage an appetite and also encourage
all dogs to eat large, cumbersome pieces that clean his/her teeth and create
a longer meal duration which also lets them feel more satisfied. Imagine
him tearing into a half a chicken..really having to work for his meal.

Remember, a dog is a Wolf. Feed as close to nature as possible. Large
meals, smaller meals..the odd fast, which your dog seems to do... all this
will enhance his digestion, cure his fussiness, and get him as healthy as
possible. Why throw meat away? These are dogs, remember? I give my dog
meat that is past due on a regular basis. Keeps him strong!!
Remember..these are predator, dogs...not people with fur. ;-))

Chia & Ricco

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Messages in this topic (6)
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2c. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Last Question, Promise-For Today
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:15 pm ((PDT))

Doreen,

Dump the kibble, feed him raw. No need to throw food away. If he doesn't
eat it, put it back in the fridge and serve it at the next meal.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "doreenchui" <doreenchui@yeos.com>

Messages in this topic (6)
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2d. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Last Question, Promise-For Today
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:40 pm ((PDT))

"doreenchui" <doreenchui@...> wrote:
I been feeding raw
> chicken, beef, mutton. Sometimes 1 kind aday and sometimes I mix 2
> kinds. He eats for 2 days and stop eating for 1 or 2 days. I keep
> throwing meat away. Raw is in the morning and evening he gets Abady.
> Pls advise.
*****
One. Get rid of the Abady. When he's hungry, let him eat real food.

Two. Take his lead. When he's hungry he'll eat. When he turns way
from what you've offered, collect it back up and feed it again at the
next meal. Did I mention get rid of the Abady? Get rid of Abady.

Three. Change the subject line when you change topics. Or start a
whole brand new topic of your own.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Starting out a Tibetan Spaniel on rawfeeding
Posted by: "susanne_webber" susanne_webber@yahoo.com susanne_webber
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:51 pm ((PDT))

Hi,
i am planning to switch my Tibetan Spaniel (toy sized dog) to
rawfeeding. Couple of questions:
1. Can brown rice be added to the diet? He loves it!
2. Can anyone recommend a supplement? Are these a good idea?

He has a collapsed tracea which I believe kibble is irritating because
he seems to cough a lot after eating.
Thanks for your help!
Susanne

Messages in this topic (4)
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3b. Re: Starting out a Tibetan Spaniel on rawfeeding
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:08 pm ((PDT))

#### Rice is NOT appropriate for a carnivore in any way. That he loves it
is not a reason to feed it. Those calories are not digestible and strain
the digestive system only doing him harm.

Give him all the nutrients he deserves from the flesh and organs of assorted
animals sticking with one only for a week or two to let him adapt.

Remember, kibble fed dogs that 'love' certain things, usually do so because
they are in a constant state of hunger and malnutrition. With a little time,
all cravings or most at least, for inappropriate foods, disappears since
they truly become content and satisfied.

Fresh, real carcasses or large meaty bones, no vaccines or chemicals..lots
of fresh, pure water and exercise. It doesn't get any better then that!

Chia & Ricco

(the only supplement would be fish oil if commercially raised meats are fed
and if your dog doesn't like to consume fish).

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Messages in this topic (4)
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3c. Re: Starting out a Tibetan Spaniel on rawfeeding
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:13 pm ((PDT))

Hi Susanne,

No rice, no supplements unless there is a need. I would concentrate on
getting him switched to raw and then give him a little rice as a treat
occasionally if he handles it ok.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "susanne_webber" <susanne_webber@yahoo.com>
i am planning to switch my Tibetan Spaniel (toy sized dog) to
rawfeeding. Couple of questions:
1. Can brown rice be added to the diet? He loves it!
2. Can anyone recommend a supplement? Are these a good idea?

Messages in this topic (4)
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3d. Re: Starting out a Tibetan Spaniel on rawfeeding
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:50 pm ((PDT))

"susanne_webber" <susanne_webber@...> wrote:

> i am planning to switch my Tibetan Spaniel (toy sized dog) to
> rawfeeding. Couple of questions:
> 1. Can brown rice be added to the diet? He loves it!
*****
Doesn't matter that he loves brown rice. He'll love real food too,
and real food--meat, edible bones, organs--will be much better for
him. Ditch the rice. Later, after you and he have gotten yourselves
squared away on a good raw diet, maybe then you might give him rice
treats every once in a while. But for now? Nope.

2. Can anyone recommend a supplement? Are these a good idea?
*****
Specific supplements can be helpful when dealing with specific health
issues. No health issues, no supplements. Assume none are needed
until your dog shows you otherwise. Spend your doggiedollars on the
best foods you can afford!

> He has a collapsed tracea which I believe kibble is irritating
because
> he seems to cough a lot after eating.
*****
While kibble is at the very least irritating, I'm guessing there are
other factors involved here. I know nothing about collapsed tracheas
but I DO know there are people on this list who can help you create
the best menu for your boy.

It's good you've chosen to get rid of the kibble.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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4. Question from Newbie
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:28 pm ((PDT))

My two pugs gulp their food, whatever it is big or small and once they
have gulped everything, they swallow it and immediately throw it back
up. They do this about three/four times while they are eating. This is
an everyday thing. I caught one rolling on the floor going round and
round til I got the food out of her throat. She does use her paws to
tear at her food very gingerly to some extent. The other bozo goes all
over the floor trying his best not to come close to the raw meat. Is
this style of eating normal? I don't think they'll be growing out of
this.(I never mention the Pittie because he's such a great eater, lol.)

Silvina and the pugs

Messages in this topic (1)
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5.1. Metabolism - WAS: Re: recreational bones
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:29 pm ((PDT))

This is great, thanks so much!
I went to the butcher today and bought a goat
shoulder/part of the leg, and when I laid it down for
Poe (german shepherd/husky) she only decided to eat it
when she saw the bone part. She seemed to focus a lot
on the bone. There is lots of meat on it, and she
really seemed to like it, but really went for the
bone. She ate for about an hour.
I figure by the time she finishes it, there's enough
meat on it that she'll be fine.

Another thing, I notice she's been pooping a LOT
lately, even though it's pretty dry and crumbly
(probably from all the bone she eats). Is this normal?
I'm talking like, 3 or 4 times a day/night.
She's had accidents in the house for the past 3
nights. I'm assuming that I'm feeding her too late
(sometimes 4pm, sometimes 6pm or 7pm) so I'm going to
start feeding her earlier and hope that she'll pooh
before bed and not during the night on the floor..
Do you notice that when you feed at a specific time
that they pooh at a specific time? It seems like she
isn't quite pooping out everything that she needs to,
so she does it in intervals.
She doesn't seem constipated though, she doesn't have
to strain to get it out.

How fast do your dogs metabolize a meat meal? Or a
bonier meal?

And this little aside:
Also, the butcher laughed when I told him the meat was
for my dog and he told me that he wished his wife
would feed him as well as I feed my dog! They even
gave me a free goat neck (that's worth about 10$-$15)
on top of the one that I bought because they like how
much meat I buy for my dog!

Nathalie

. The amount
> of time it takes
> a dog to eat will vary according to the size and
> dentitia of the dog
> and the size an shape of the meal. Denise
>
>

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Messages in this topic (38)
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5.2. Re: Metabolism - WAS: Re: recreational bones
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:34 pm ((PDT))

Dry and crumbly is normal when you feed too much bone. And I find with my
Dane after a bony meal, when he has to go, he has to go right NOW! That dry
crumbly stuff just seems to want to pop out! :)

I think when you start feeding more meat that problem will be solved.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Nathalie Poulin" <poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca>
>
> Another thing, I notice she's been pooping a LOT
> lately, even though it's pretty dry and crumbly
> (probably from all the bone she eats). Is this normal?
> I'm talking like, 3 or 4 times a day/night.
> She's had accidents in the house for the past 3
> nights.

Messages in this topic (38)
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6. Dehydrated Liver considerations
Posted by: "ychinook" chinook.nr@tds.net ychinook
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:30 pm ((PDT))

I've done a little googling regarding the nutrient contribution of
dehydrated liver to take into account. So far all I've found is a
study using rats so I thought I'd ask here as one or more of you have
probably already done more extensive research.

I keep a good supply of dehydrated grass fed beef liver on hand for
treats and with my 130 lb malamute the amount given is not significant
in his diet, but for my wife's new GR puppy I'm thinking such should
be taken into account. By taken into account I'm going on the premise
that raw liver should not be more than three to five percent of diet
over time - actually I probably average out to about 3 percent of my
malamutes diet.

So, does dehydrated liver contribute the same amount of nutrients and
especially the fat soluble vitamins as raw liver or something less?

Best to all,
Lee, Karen, Buddy Bear and Holly

PS: I took a cute photo of little Holly (the GR puppy) taking Buddy
Bear (the 130 lb malamute) for a walk, but cant seem to figure out how
to share the photo here. So if you'd like to see it just drop me a
line.

Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. Re: help for IBS
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:43 pm ((PDT))

Hi Lynda,

What have blood tests shown? Any out of whack pancreatic or liver enzymes?
This could be the result of chronic pancreatitis...or something like IBD or
colitis. If she has pancreatitis, it would be nice to know so you can find
the cause and treat it...and supplement her diet with the appropriate
enzymes.

Regardless, the very best you can do is get them both switched to raw ASAP!
Start out with frequent small meals for the girl, possibly remove fat and go
low bone in the beginning. I think I would also use a good digestive enzyme
for her.

You might just want to start her out with bone-in chicken breasts...lots of
meat and small easily digestible bones. The male could get a quarter of a
chicken easily.

You really need to get this resolved...this is not healthy and she needs to
be back in the house with her family. So dump the kibble, canned, yogurt
and psyllium and get this girl going on the best possible diet, which of
course is raw!! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "lhmcmaken" <lhmcmaken@yahoo.com>

Her problem is diarrhea
that starts for no reason I can figure out, and can continue for more
then a week. Very liquid and horrid. I have cleaned up her messes
more than 100 times now and just can not handle it any more. So we
are keeping them outside until we can figure it out. I have given her
different human anti diarrhea pills and that has helped sometimes. I
have given her probiotic, yogurt, restricted her food intake,
switched from canned back to kibble, added psyllium husks and slippery
elm bark capsules. But I do not know the dosage to use for the
psyllium (am doing ½ teaspoon) or for the SEB. Once I over dosed her
and she got constipated. I would love to go raw for both dogs but
with her diarreaha I am just afraid to. In the reading of the posts
to this group, it seems upset stomach and bowels is commen. Sorry for
this long post but I am confused about what to do, and very sad that
both dogs can no longer be housedogs.

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: help for IBS
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:25 pm ((PDT))

Take the dogs off kibble IMMEDIATELY.
No more kibble junk, no more canned junk.
The diarrhea is probably from the crappy kibble. There
is no such thing as the "best" kibble.
KIBBLE = GARBAGE. PERIOD.

Seriously, if you care about your dogs' health, go out
RIGHT NOW and buy a whole chicken, cut it in half and
give each half to your dogs.

Chicken is the blandest and most easily digestable
meat/bones. Feeding her REAL food, with the bones from
the chicken should help her stomach issues.
And if she has a litte diarrhea while her body
adjusts, is that really as bad as CONSTANT diarrhea?
At least with raw, it *should go away.
(*Ruling out any worms/sickness etc)

From what it sounds like, your dogs would probably
benefit HUGELY if you switched to raw.
Chicken backs are too bony for dogs as big as great
danes!

Try whole chicken for a week or 2, just to see if it
helps your pups, and if it works as well as I imagine
it will, post us with an update and we'll help get you
onto other meats.
Feeding raw it the BEST thing you can do your dogs!
You should also check the archives for previous posts
about IBS, there's lots of information there.

But first things first, GET THEM OFF THE KIBBLE!

Nathalie

ps. go to

www.rawfed.com/myths

and check out the
wealth of information that's there.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:24 pm ((PDT))

I've been gone for quite some time so hopefully I'm not stepping on any
toes just jumping into the discussion like this.

Actually, cats did not evolve to eat "old" food. They are obligate
carnivores and don't scavenge, (generally. Domesticated cats have
learned unnatural things about garbage cans.). They don't have the
same quality of digestive enzymes as our dogs do, so they cannot handle
older, spoiling meat nearly as well. Nor can they handle cold meat.
Since they eat only what they kill, and they usually don't kill
anything large, their system isn't evolved to deal with meat that has
been left to cool.

Cats of all ages can be switched, I switched my three (the oldest was
12 when we switched him, and he took to it the fastest!) this past
January and there's been no looking back. It took the younger two a
while to really get into it, but it was so worth it.

Good luck with your cats, they tend to be much more difficult to switch
but it really is worth the effort.

Shannon H.

>
> Have you been able to figure out why they are so stubborn?
>
>
>
> I realized it was only when the meat was
> > not really fresh, just like cats)
> *****
> I have only fed raw to two cats, one switched as an adult, the other
> at 3 months. Both, from day one, were not only willing to eat "old"
> food but also thrilled to. Is this "fresh or death" dichotomy a cat
> thing that my cats haven't heard about, or is it a learned behavior
> I somehow managed to not teach?
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (17)
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8b. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:54 pm ((PDT))

"Shannon Hully" <summerwolf@...> wrote:
> Actually, cats did not evolve to eat "old" food. They are obligate
> carnivores and don't scavenge, (generally. Domesticated cats have
> learned unnatural things about garbage cans.). They don't have the
> same quality of digestive enzymes as our dogs do, so they cannot
handle
> older, spoiling meat nearly as well.
*****
Ah, well it's a good thing my cats can't read. I'll not tell them
they're not supposed to eat "old" food and I certainly won't tell them
I'm supposed to be feeding them freshly killed food and I suspect we'll
continue to get by.

Good to know though. Thank you.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (17)
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9a. Re: Duck? How rich?
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:25 pm ((PDT))

You could still feed her the lamb, just add SMALL
pieces to the turkey. Same with chicken and pork.
Start small until her body gets used to it then
gradually increase.
Also, stick with just one meat source (with the
turkey). If you have lots of lamb, start with tiny
chunks here and there added to the turkey.
As for the duck, always start a new protein slowly!
Again, just add small pieces every few meals or so to
make sure her body gets used to it.
My dog was 9 months when I got her and I just started
her with a whole chicken. It lasted a few days and
then I gave her pork. 2 days later I threw in some
goat. I figure that she's a pup and probably
resilient. She had some loose poops but now she eats
almost everything I give her, except wild hare.. she
doesn't seem to like that much.
Anyways, just go REALLY slow with introductions to new
meat.

Nathalie

--- Sonja <ladyver@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> My lab has been eating turkey, mostly. She's OK with
> chicken and pork maybe once a week, but if I feed
> more of either to her she tends to have reactions to
> it. I'm contemplating trying duck.....do I need to
> go slow with this protein? When we first started
> raw, I got too ambitious and threw lamb at her too
> soon. The poor dog paid for my mistake for three
> days. I still have all of that frozen lamb but would
> like to know where duck falls into the raw feeding
> mix. Is it considered too rich for a dog who is
> doing well on turkey and has exposure to a few other
> proteins?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>

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Messages in this topic (2)
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10. Questions RE rawfeeding GSP Sambuca--now he has 'die' 'a' 'rear' ha
Posted by: "Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com" Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com irishcateyes1
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:34 pm ((PDT))

Anyway, enough with my bad joke--not enough sleep last night provokes such
crassness.

Sambuca has been RAW fed for a week and a half now. He has been getting
minimally/or not enhanced chicken quarters, whole fryer chickens quartered,
gizzards, and a few hearts for over a week with no problems.

Now two days ago, in a moment of daftness, I decide to get some chicken liver
and instead of giving him a small amount (I found out after I gave it to him)
I loaded the boy up with about 2 1/2 Tablespoons worth in a day. Too much?
Yeah for him I think so. :)

And to make it worse, that same day I also bought different chicken than I
had been feeding (Perdue--enhanced with 12% chicken "broth")--again, mistake as
I forgot to read the package. So along with the enhanced chicken and the
'McD's supersized' serving of liver my boy developed explosive diarrhea that day
and the next. The last two nights and days have not been too incredibly fun
and lesson learned--never shop on three hours of sleep and always read the fine
print . . .

Today is the third day of the upset tummy, but it has improved because when I
realized my mistake yesterday evening, I made a point to return to the store
early this morning and buy the right chicken for him. I bought what I had
been feeding him previously with no problems--chicken without enhancements and no
additional liver for the time being.

His poop is better today (more frothy (sorry) now and mucousy--but not as
watery but again not yet solid). DH was freaking out on me in the wee hours of
the morning and discussing the horrid K word to firm him up temporarily. NOPE
not going happen and didn't. :) HA!

So today is the first day of returning to serve him the non-enhanced chicken
and I am wondering when he will be back to "normal" as far as his poops are
concerned? I did notice today was better and not so sudden and frequent nor as
volatile. :)

How long is too long for diarrhea for a 9 week old pup?

Next question. . . if it was just the liver I think I would have noticed an
improvement by the third day of not feeding anymore, correct? Going on this
assumption, I think it was more of the enhanced chicken that has caused this
issue. Possibly it could have been a double whammy too.

Also, it couldn't be from switching him from K (breeder's) to raw and it just
finally taking effect after 1 1/2 weeks could it? He had been doing so well
until I made those two dietary changes, unfortunately all in the same day.

What do you think?

P.S. Anyone have any good human recipes for cooking 10lbs + of enhanced
chicken quarters and bone in breasts??? ;) LOL! Guess what is for dinner
tonight. . .

Another note. . how can you tell the difference btwn too skinny and a healthy
lean? I can now see a waistline on him and feel more ribs, but I also wonder
if he looks "too caved in" on the sides and can feel his backbone more. What
is normal?? Again, Sambuca is 9 weeks old today and he weighed 16.9 lbs when
I got him 1 1/2 weeks ago and today he weighed 19 lbs. He is also getting
taller so that might be part of the weight gain too.

Also, might be worth mentioning here. . the past two days I have noticed an
occasional clicking sound when he walks. Almost sounds like nails on hardwood
floors but it does it on carpet and on the grass except a little deeper. He
doesn't seem to notice or act any different nor be in any pain. I took him to
a reg vet today (1st visit and last as we are in the process of finding a
holistic vet who's views are similar to ours). The vet mentioned he was tender in
his left rear leg near the knee and that both knees had cartiledge deposits
on them and they might be flapping around. Has anyone heard of this esp at 9
weeks?? He said we need to watch it and if it worsens or if we see any
lameness we need X-rays. As of right now just wait it out and monitor him and he may
outgrow it.

Again, Sambuca doesn't act any different and the clicking doesn't happen all
the time. The vet 'mentioned' (ha using that word lightly) that it could be a
result of his current inadequate diet. Tsk Tsk, right? Yeah right. Anyway,
he suggested I supplement for the "best nutrition"(get this. . you ready. . )
with K? And Purina no doubt. YIKES! I knew this visit would be unpleasant
but never realized to this extreme. He said dogs are not carnivores but
omnivores and they also need vitamins that only Purina K can provide. Sounds like
the commercial, doesn't it?? I almost silently laughed myself into hysteria.
So again last visit, but my biggest concern was the clicking. Any feedback?

Am I doing something wrong since I have noticed a visual weight loss even
though it may be how he is supposed to look? I know this is the only beginning
stages and until the diarrhea clears up I want to wait on adding another
protein source. I doubt it is what I am doing but thought I would ask in case I am
missing something simple.

Thanks again for your advice and for your patience in reading my diatribe. :)

Tamatha and Sambuca (GSD)

Any dog can teach a child responsibility and commitment.

A German Shepherd Dog will show the child the meaning
of dedication.

"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life,
his love, his leader. He will be yours faithful and true, to the last beat of
his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." --Unknown

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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Messages in this topic (1)
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11.1. Re: turkey necks
Posted by: "Rebecca Little" pbgs@delhitel.net canucme278
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:37 pm ((PDT))

My guys LOVE turkey necks and take their time chewing them completely with no issues even my 95lb male!
Rebecca Little
Peakes Brook German Shepherds
http://sites.centralpets.com/mammals/peakesbrookgsd/index.html

----- Original Message -----
From: michelleraia1
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:22 PM
Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: turkey necks

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

My 40 LB 8 month old standard poodle has been eating turkey necks since
he started on raw....about two months now....It was one of his first
RMBs and he has never had a problem with them.

Messages in this topic (67)
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12a. Newbie here
Posted by: "paperfibe" CollageStudio@bendbroadband.com paperfibe
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:00 pm ((PDT))

Hi all, I've been reading posts and thought I'd better introduce
myself and my new raw fed crew two one year old bulldogs Doc and Wyatt..
They have been eating Canidae kibble until last week. I made the
decision to switch to Raw and have started the boys with elk so far.
Heres a link to their blog of their change over.
http://docwyattraw.blogspot.com/

Looking forward to learning from this group as well has hopefully
someday adding some of my own impute!:)
Deb
Bend, OR

Messages in this topic (17)
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Feed Pets Raw Food

Wednesday, July 25, 2007

[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11843

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