[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11842

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Last Question, Promise-For Today
From: Maiakitas@aol.com
1b. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Last Question, Promise-For Today
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: Day # 2....still vomiting!
From: chandler_baby
2b. Re: Day # 2....still vomiting!
From: Cindy Marabito
2c. Re: Day # 2....still vomiting!
From: pet.wellness

3a. Comprehensive exam at Vet office
From: Yasuko herron
3b. Re: Comprehensive exam at Vet office
From: Michelle LaFay
3c. ADMIN/Re: Comprehensive exam at Vet office
From: costrowski75

4.1. Re: Fish
From: Yasuko herron

5a. Life after chicken
From: Eve
5b. Re: Life after chicken
From: magolin0328

6. Ginny and Tomo are Famous!!!
From: woofwoofgrrl

7a. Re: pawing at mouth after meals
From: woofwoofgrrl

8.1. Re: turkey necks
From: costrowski75
8.2. Re: turkey necks
From: Laura Atkinson
8.3. Re: turkey necks
From: costrowski75
8.4. Re: turkey necks
From: Laura Atkinson
8.5. Re: turkey necks
From: michelleraia1
8.6. Re: turkey necks
From: Laura Atkinson

9a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
From: costrowski75

10a. help for IBS
From: lhmcmaken
10b. Re: help for IBS
From: mandarini_gg

11a. Re: Digest Number 11840
From: Bumble1994@aol.com
11b. Re: Digest Number 11840
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

12. Duck? How rich?
From: Sonja

Messages
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1a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Last Question, Promise-For Today
Posted by: "Maiakitas@aol.com" Maiakitas@aol.com maiakitas
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:46 pm ((PDT))

Hi All,

I searched the files because I thought I saw this mentioned somewhere, but
could not find it. Since I have been adding beef, pork, fish, and anything else
I can find, one of my dogs is no longer that thrilled with poultry except for
giblets and organs. If he is getting a variety of other meats, must he have
poultry? What was the verdict on chitterlings? OK or not.

So far, fingers crossed, everything seems to be agreeing with my dogs.

Thanks all for bearing with me during these times of transition from kibble
that I am making far more difficult than they need to be. :o)

Regards,
Carla

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Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Last Question, Promise-For Today
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:38 pm ((PDT))

Maiakitas@... wrote:
one of my dogs is no longer that thrilled with poultry except for
> giblets and organs. If he is getting a variety of other meats, must
he have
> poultry?
*****
Chicken is available, generally afforable, generally easily digested
and the bones of course are soft. Beyond that, chicken is not magic
and there are plenty of other meats to use. Who knows? Perhaps after
a hiatus he'll like chicken again.

What was the verdict on chitterlings? OK or not.
*****
Not worth it, IMO.
Chris

Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: Day # 2....still vomiting!
Posted by: "chandler_baby" chandler_baby@yahoo.com chandler_baby
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:49 pm ((PDT))

Jeff, I'm so sorry you are minus one tonight. Hope your Sassy girl
will be with you again soon.

I found this interesting because my vet when I first started raw told
me my dogs would get TOO much calcium. Good side of it, I have him a
believer now. He isn't feeding raw himself yet but he is moving in
that direction. he is doing a home prepared meal for his fur faces and
has read some books on raw feeding.

Raw diet with American meat is better than corn & by-products in bags.

Best of luck

Roxane
NE Iowa

Messages in this topic (16)
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2b. Re: Day # 2....still vomiting!
Posted by: "Cindy Marabito" doggirl1@earthlink.net rowdycowgirl50
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:03 pm ((PDT))

I would like to add something to the comment about grass fed being a
marketing ploy. I try to buy all of my sources through a co-op that
are guaranteed to be cage free and humanely treated. I drive pretty
far to try and get products that do not come from a factory farm
situation. I think that is important to point out. Whoever has seen
the movie "Peaceable Kingdom" will be able to understand this
decision and also have a better idea of where some of the diseases
mentioned are procured. Cindy Marabito

Messages in this topic (16)
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2c. Re: Day # 2....still vomiting!
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:26 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Cindy Marabito <doggirl1@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to add something to the comment about grass fed being a
> marketing ploy. I try to buy all of my sources through a co-op that
> are guaranteed to be cage free and humanely treated. I drive pretty
> far to try and get products that do not come from a factory farm

I think we're lucky to be in the midst of so much pasture in Austin.
Most everything is within a couple hours.

That said, I wish we'd hear from Jeff an update on his Sassy.
Pamela

Messages in this topic (16)
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3a. Comprehensive exam at Vet office
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:50 pm ((PDT))

Hi,for the first time after switching my dog's diet,she goes to comprehensive exam on next Monday;30th.

I believe they test heartwarm,lhyme,fecal test,blood test etc,but kibble fed dog result and raw fed dog result comes slightly different in some exams? Do I expect some different result than last time?

Since the lady said I can feed and give water,so,before drop off at vet office,I will feed normal raw food.

I was curious about this because the touch of the poo before/after switching the diet is different so,maybe,when fecal test,they maybe find something strange not seeing in kibble fed dogs?I am not sure..

If there were something that for rawfed dog the result is normal but for vet who are getting used to seeing kibble fed dogs' ,if it looked strange and then,if he try to treat whatever was off ,it will be a problems so,I like to know about it.

They wanted to do teeth cleaning when we drop off palette but I said no to that. I really don't need that one even though the cleaning is covered under the pet wellness plan..

I am little bit nervous because this is first exam after the switch ...

thank you

yassy

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3b. Re: Comprehensive exam at Vet office
Posted by: "Michelle LaFay" pawsitivelycaring@gmail.com mblafay
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:23 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: REMEMBER TO TRIM YOUR MESSAGES.***

Is there a reason for doing all these tests? If this is just a yearly or
however long checkup I wouldn't bother personally. You surely couldn't PAY
me to "drop off" either. No way no how do my dogs even leave my sight during
a rare office visit, let alone leave them there. *shudder*

On 7/25/07, Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,for the first time after switching my dog's diet,she goes to
> comprehensive exam on next Monday;30th.
>
> I believe they test heartwarm,lhyme,fecal test,blood test etc,but kibble
> fed dog result and raw fed dog result comes slightly different in some
> exams? Do I expect some different result than last time?
>
> Since the lady said I can feed and give water,so,before drop off at vet
> office,I will feed normal raw food.
>
> I was curious about this because the touch of the poo before/after
> switching the diet is different so,maybe,when fecal test,they maybe find
> something strange not seeing in kibble fed dogs?I am not sure..
>
> If there were something that for rawfed dog the result is normal but for
> vet who are getting used to seeing kibble fed dogs' ,if it looked strange
> and then,if he try to treat whatever was off ,it will be a problems so,I
> like to know about it.
>
> They wanted to do teeth cleaning when we drop off palette but I said no
> to that. I really don't need that one even though the cleaning is covered
> under the pet wellness plan..
>
> I am little bit nervous because this is first exam after the switch ...
>
> thank you
>
> yassy
>
>

--
Michelle LaFay
Pawsitively Caring Pet Sitting
http://www.pawsitivelycaring.com
pawsitivelycaring@gmail.com

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Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. ADMIN/Re: Comprehensive exam at Vet office
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:39 pm ((PDT))

Please take this topic to RawChat. Further postings to rawfeeding
will be inexplicably misplaced. Thank you.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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4.1. Re: Fish
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:52 pm ((PDT))

>Also, how often can you feed fish?

Hi.I hear that 1-2 times a week is good and I feed 2 days fish meal.

I have fed perch,snappers, whiting,haddock,squid,scallop,shrimp, cod,flounder,Mahi Mahi..

and I fed shark fillet today,but since I was not sure if it ok with raw,so, I cooked it.
No salt,no pepper,just cooked.I know it is not preferable but I was not sure about ok or not to feed raw. I got fillet at 1 dollar a week ago and, decided to feed it.

She did loved it and gusto,she was looking for more. Her gutt looks like torelating very well. no gooey poo. I too like to know if raw shark is ok or not.

You also can feed canned mackaerral/sardine/salmon too.
Not in oil but in water.

Avoid pacific northwest salmon,trout,tuna though.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (142)
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5a. Life after chicken
Posted by: "Eve" loulou_bean@yahoo.com loulou_bean
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:52 pm ((PDT))

We have been 100% raw feeding our pekingese for 3
weeks now, and it's been chicken in the morning and
chicken at night. He's doing really well and has
learned to tear and chew like a champ. Does anyone
have a recommendation for the introduction of a 2nd
meat? We've read mixed reviews about beef. Any
advice would be great.
Also, our peke rubs his face along the bottom of
the sofa after he eats, too. After reading today's
post, it seems he's not the only one.

Eve, Dan, and Louis

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Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Life after chicken
Posted by: "magolin0328" maggie.taylor@artlover.com magolin0328
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:25 pm ((PDT))

Pork is Diesel's favorite. Its the next cheapest meat that I can find
so he gets a lot of pork and chicken as the staples of his diet and
then whatever other random things I find cheap or on sale. Its also
pretty digestible from what I've observed when Diesel eats it. He
doesn't always do well with beef so I tend to limit it.

Maggie
Diesel, SDIT

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Eve <loulou_bean@...> wrote:
>
> We have been 100% raw feeding our pekingese for 3
> weeks now, and it's been chicken in the morning and
> chicken at night. He's doing really well and has
> learned to tear and chew like a champ. Does anyone
> have a recommendation for the introduction of a 2nd
> meat? We've read mixed reviews about beef. Any
> advice would be great.
> Also, our peke rubs his face along the bottom of
> the sofa after he eats, too. After reading today's
> post, it seems he's not the only one.
>
> Eve, Dan, and Louis

Messages in this topic (2)
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6. Ginny and Tomo are Famous!!!
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:52 pm ((PDT))

So I opened up my Whole Dog Journal this afternoon and started to read
the next installment in their raw feeding series.
After reading all of these complicated meal plans (some people make it
SO hard on themselves!) - I was getting concerned,
and then I saw a name I recognized - *Ginny Wilkin and her dog Tomo* -
representing the Prey Model diet. YEAH!!!!
Tomo is a very handsome boy with sweet sweet eyes and a totally kissable
muzzlepouche!!!

YEAH!!!

Christine

Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. Re: pawing at mouth after meals
Posted by: "woofwoofgrrl" cmc4lists1@gastrounit.com woofwoofgrrl
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:57 pm ((PDT))

My Border Collie does lays on the floor and rubs her face across the
carpet after eating a good meal and one of my whippets has a particular
evergreen bush that he rubs his face against after he eats. I've always
assumed it was because they are savoring their meals! Unless you can
find evidence of inflammation, pain, or irritation, I'd assume yours is
doing the same!

Dogs have many many more scent glands than taste buds, so it makes sense
to think that savoring a meal would included finding a way to release
the meal fragrances left on ones muzzles after a good meal!!

Christine

anjumdanielle wrote:
>
>
> Barb - not to gloss over any possible allergies or other problem, but
> my dog does this when he's really gotten "into" his meal. I'm pretty
> sure he's just cleaning his face. Might be the same w/ yours.
> Good luck.
> -Anjum

Messages in this topic (6)
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8.1. Re: turkey necks
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:25 pm ((PDT))

"betty hinson" <b_hinson@...> wrote:
>
> speaking of raw turkey necks Does anyone feed this to small breeds
like Papillons?
*****
I think that turkey necks are perfect for small breeds. I think
that's where turkey necks shine. Oh, and for cats, too.

Remember, it is not essential that bones are completely eaten. If the
meat is worked off and some of the bone is nibbled, that's lovely.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (66)
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8.2. Re: turkey necks
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:32 pm ((PDT))

And teething puppies...don't forget teething puppies. Nothin' will
get those loose baby teeth out faster than a semi-frozen turkey neck.

On 7/25/07, costrowski75 <Chriso75@aol.com> wrote:
> "betty hinson" <b_hinson@...> wrote:
> >
> > speaking of raw turkey necks Does anyone feed this to small breeds
> like Papillons?
> *****
> I think that turkey necks are perfect for small breeds. I think
> that's where turkey necks shine. Oh, and for cats, too.
>
> Remember, it is not essential that bones are completely eaten. If the
> meat is worked off and some of the bone is nibbled, that's lovely.
> Chris O

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com

Messages in this topic (66)
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8.3. Re: turkey necks
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:43 pm ((PDT))

"Laura Atkinson" <llatkinson@...> wrote:
>
> And teething puppies...don't forget teething puppies. Nothin' will
> get those loose baby teeth out faster than a semi-frozen turkey neck.
*****
True, but only small breed teething babies! By the time a Lab gets to
teething age, a turkey neck is just the right size for stupid eating.
In fact, my bc pup was trying to inhale them before she was anywheres
near teething.

Oh all right--I suppose a polite teething pup is doable.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (66)
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8.4. Re: turkey necks
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:58 pm ((PDT))

I'll give you that <G> polite teething pups...and polite eating dogs
too <G>. My crew eats them regularly. But they chomp things off in
nice, non-scary pieces.

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com

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8.5. Re: turkey necks
Posted by: "michelleraia1" michelleraia1@yahoo.com michelleraia1
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:29 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

My 40 LB 8 month old standard poodle has been eating turkey necks since
he started on raw....about two months now....It was one of his first
RMBs and he has never had a problem with them.
>

Messages in this topic (66)
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8.6. Re: turkey necks
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:10 pm ((PDT))

Some dogs can handle them easily, I call them the exquisitely polite
eaters. Dogs who would never DREAM of trying to swallow something
whole. Even Robin, my 5 onth old puppy, knows to hold it down with
her paws and knibble along it like an ear of corn and then chomp the
bone down. Obviously your poodle is in that class with my Siberian
Huskies.

But there are people who have monsters who masquarade as dogs and
inhale anything given to them. To these dogs, turkey necks would be
an iffy item to include on the menu.

On 7/25/07, michelleraia1 <michelleraia1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ***MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***
>
>
> My 40 LB 8 month old standard poodle has been eating turkey necks since
> he started on raw....about two months now....It was one of his first
> RMBs and he has never had a problem with them.
> >

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com

Messages in this topic (66)
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9a. Re: Newbie With A Feeding Dilemma -Won't Eat Frozen Either
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:31 pm ((PDT))

Maiakitas@... wrote:
>> I'm sending my animals to the "Chris O Camp of Rawfeeding." I'm
packing their
> duffel bags, oops Akitas, don't carry duffel bags, they carry
sachels, and
> they should be there on the 9:00 train. :o)
*****
<snicker>
I have a friend who sends me her dogs when they need to lose weight.
Chris O

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10a. help for IBS
Posted by: "lhmcmaken" lhmcmaken@yahoo.com lhmcmaken
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:28 pm ((PDT))

Hello. I have two great Danes. Both have been on the best kibble and
now on canned. My male has had skin issues his whole life, and now on
canned food he is almost 100 percent better. I feed him a chicken
back 3 times a week, but if I feed more, he eats grass. He is 7 ½.
My female is a rescue kennel bitch who was in the vets office every
other month since the alpha bitch kept attacking her. She has been
with us half her life now and is 8 years old. Her problem is diarrhea
that starts for no reason I can figure out, and can continue for more
then a week. Very liquid and horrid. I have cleaned up her messes
more than 100 times now and just can not handle it any more. So we
are keeping them outside until we can figure it out. I have given her
different human anti diarrhea pills and that has helped sometimes. I
have given her probiotic, yogurt, restricted her food intake,
switched from canned back to kibble, added psyllium husks and slippery
elm bark capsules. But I do not know the dosage to use for the
psyllium (am doing ½ teaspoon) or for the SEB. Once I over dosed her
and she got constipated. I would love to go raw for both dogs but
with her diarreaha I am just afraid to. In the reading of the posts
to this group, it seems upset stomach and bowels is commen. Sorry for
this long post but I am confused about what to do, and very sad that
both dogs can no longer be housedogs. She stresses and
hyperventilates before walks and dinner and I do not know how to stop
that behavior. She is very happy. He is very happy. And both are
exceptionally healthy except for the diarrhea. she is 135 pounds.
Thanks for any thoughts. take care, lynda

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10b. Re: help for IBS
Posted by: "mandarini_gg" amanda.gasparini@gmail.com mandarini_gg
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:10 pm ((PDT))

My Dane had major stomach issues before I adopted her. She couldn't
hold food down, had explosive diarrhea, and weighed 65 pounds. Her
foster family switched her to raw, and that cured those problems 100%.
They put her back on kibble for adoptability purposes, but I switched
her back to raw about 3 months ago, and everything has gone super so far.

The vets that saw Lola were pretty sure she has Irritable Bowel
Disease. Have you taken her in to get her checked out to make sure
everything is ok?

I really, really think you should give raw a whirl. it can only HELP
not hurt. But go SLOW when you start out. Because of Lola's tummy
issues, I had her on skinless chicken for about 3 weeks, then started
leaving the skin on for a couple weeks. I very gradually added a
little pork into her diet, and now she's eating a much larger variety
of meats.

Whatever kibble or canned foods you are giving your girl contains
stuff that her tummy doesn't want to deal with, so it just shoots it
out the other end. That's not the case with raw.

I'd hate to think the ol' girl had to spend her golden years outside,
away from the people she loves, just because she's not eating the
right food....

Mandi

Her problem is diarrhea
> that starts for no reason I can figure out, and can continue for more
> then a week. Very liquid and horrid. I have cleaned up her messes
> more than 100 times now and just can not handle it any more. So we
> are keeping them outside until we can figure it out.

Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Re: Digest Number 11840
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:31 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/25/2007 2:32:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_Maiakitas@aol.com _ (mailto:Maiakitas@aol.com ) writes:

the original question was regarding a freshness issue. My dogs won't touch
anything not fresh, (they were missing meals, which I had no problem with, but
I realized it was only when the meat was
not really fresh, just like cats) and I have been throwing out lots of meat,

****
Actually, my cats will eat meat that isn't really fresh, and I only have
cats, so this isn't personal experience--but from everything I've read here, if
they don't want the meat you give them, stick it back in the refrigerator and
offer it again tomorrow. It isn't going to get rank enough to actually do
harm before they get hungry enough to eat it, and it probably won't take a lot
of this sort of experience before they will simply eat what is given and be
grateful for it.

Tonight I fed the left overs of some beef tongue that had been put down in
the frig to thaw on Sunday night--just put it in with some bony stuff tonight,
and it was cheerfully inhaled. The chief inhaler threw his up, then ate it
again. This is an old guy who has gone from growling and snarling defensively
over his rawfood 4 months ago to singing loudly to me and arching against me
as he eats, BTW. And the little girl cat, who started out singing with her
meals, is at this moment snarling apparently AT a baby back rib she is trying
hard to demolish, although it took her maybe 10 minutes to finish talking to
me and walking around the thing and BEGGING for something easier to eat!

Sometimes I think I hang out on this board more than the rawcat board
because my cats are more like dogs!

Lynda

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11b. Re: Digest Number 11840
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:42 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/25/2007 2:32:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_mdevlin@aisle10.net _ (mailto:mdevlin@aisle10.net?Subject=
Re:%20missing%20stuff%20in%20diet) writes:

Ideally it would be nice if I could obtain everything he will need for his
diet from the supermarket when we do our normal shopping? but I cant seem to
find any organs other than chicken liver. Am i just not looking hard enough,
or is it just rare for the supermarket to have anything more, and that I
really need to go to an ethnic market or a butcher?

****
I'm in a pretty good sized town, and chicken or beef liver is all I've found
in the standard grocery. I did find beef kidney in the two specialty food
places I've found in town. I've been in 4 ethnic groceries and a Wal-Mart where
a lot of Hispanics shop without finding it. If you have any farmers' markets,
try there. My cats are eating beef heart and rabbit scored from a farmers'
market...

Lynda

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12. Duck? How rich?
Posted by: "Sonja" ladyver@sbcglobal.net lonepalm77
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:41 pm ((PDT))

My lab has been eating turkey, mostly. She's OK with chicken and pork maybe once a week, but if I feed more of either to her she tends to have reactions to it. I'm contemplating trying duck.....do I need to go slow with this protein? When we first started raw, I got too ambitious and threw lamb at her too soon. The poor dog paid for my mistake for three days. I still have all of that frozen lamb but would like to know where duck falls into the raw feeding mix. Is it considered too rich for a dog who is doing well on turkey and has exposure to a few other proteins?

Thanks in advance!

Sonja

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