[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11850

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Buffalo Heart
From: Carol
1b. Re: Buffalo Heart
From: susan/foxfire
1c. Re: Buffalo Heart
From: Ross Senger

2a. Re: Chicken is working
From: Sandee Lee

3a. Re: older dog
From: Sandee Lee
3b. older dog
From: Shannon Hully
3c. Re: older dog
From: Marjorie Trebino
3d. Re: older dog
From: Shannon Parker

4a. Re: fresh meat
From: Sandee Lee

5a. Re: rawfeeding
From: Sandee Lee
5b. Re: rawfeeding
From: susan/foxfire

6a. Re: cooked bones
From: Nathalie Poulin

7a. Re: Another (less severe) vomiting question
From: Erica Mills

8a. Re: protein percentage?
From: Nathalie Poulin

9a. Re: Okay, how much diarreha is too much for a 9 week GS pup?
From: Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com

10a. Re: muscles building
From: Tina Berry

11a. Re: Chicken feet
From: Marilyn Neil

12a. Re: Constipation
From: Cheryl
12b. Re: Constipation
From: Sandee Lee
12c. Re: Constipation
From: Ross Senger

13a. Tell me about 'tripe'
From: pvojtas
13b. Re: Tell me about 'tripe'
From: outcats4@aol.com
13c. Re: Tell me about 'tripe'
From: Goin8@aol.com

14a. How much
From: rbmc1231937

15a. Re: Vomiting up all raw food?
From: Ross Senger

Messages
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1a. Buffalo Heart
Posted by: "Carol" onejoyfulmoose@yahoo.com onejoyfulmoose
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:12 am ((PDT))

A friday Smile

Just feed Buffalo Heart to my 2 Leos last night. The bitch loved it
and the male said No Way Mom. I tried cutting it into smaller chunks,
hand feeding and he'd take it, roll it around in his mouth and lay it
back down at my feet.

Even though I found a good supplier who'll ship, guess I won't get it
again.

Carol
Owned by 2 Leos in Ohio

Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: Buffalo Heart
Posted by: "susan/foxfire" fxfireob@mac.com thadnsusan
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:24 pm ((PDT))

Try dehydrating it. Our dogs, an 8 yo GSD & 9 mo Great Pry, are moody
eaters and when they refuse raw and wet offal we dehydrate it and
they gobble it up. I love Leos :)

hth,
Susan

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007, at 12:48 PM, Carol wrote:

> A friday Smile
>
> Just feed Buffalo Heart to my 2 Leos last night. The bitch loved it
> and the male said No Way Mom. I tried cutting it into smaller chunks,
> hand feeding and he'd take it, roll it around in his mouth and lay it
> back down at my feet.
>
> Even though I found a good supplier who'll ship, guess I won't get it
> again.
>
> Carol
> Owned by 2 Leos in Ohio
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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1c. Re: Buffalo Heart
Posted by: "Ross Senger" rosssenger@shaw.ca rosssenger
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:23 pm ((PDT))

> Just feed Buffalo Heart to my 2 Leos last night. The bitch loved it
> and the male said No Way Mom.

I feed my two Danes Buffalo Heart all the time, it took a few days
of "refeeding" to give them the idea they were suppose to eat it, but
one they got the idea they were fine.

On a side note, introdue the heart slowly, some dogs cant handle a full
heart meal right away. I had some really poopy problems when I first
started feeding heart in quantity.

-Ross S

Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Chicken is working
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:30 am ((PDT))

Great...now you need to get her something with more meat. Wings are far too
bony.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Cheryl" <parkbunny@verizon.net>

So, when I got
> done doing the dishes feeding him. .. what do I find?? Rayna had gone
> BACK in her crate to eat her other piece of chicken wing. now that!!!!!
> I love. !!!!! love it.. looooovvvvvvit.. !!!! lol

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: older dog
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:38 am ((PDT))

Stop Nature's Variety, hand him a chicken part. If you think there is going
to be a problem because of age, begin with small meals. I wouldn't consider
a small breed a senior at 8 1/2...I switched my most recent Dane rescue when
he was 7 with no problems.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "doreenchui" <doreenchui@yeos.com>

I have a 8 1/2 yr old mini schnauzer who is on nature variety.
How do I start him on raw?
Any issue on starting one that's already a senior?

Messages in this topic (9)
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3b. older dog
Posted by: "Shannon Hully" summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com bluehankw
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:57 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Doris Siefker" <dks7@...> wrote:
>
> I have a 8 1/2 yr old mini schnauzer who is on nature variety.
> How do I start him on raw?
> Any issue on starting one that's already a senior?
> Doreen

I started my 12 year old GSD with a digestive disease on raw a few
months ago and it did wonders for him. It made his final months much
more pleasurable for him. I only wish I'd made the switch much
earlier! (not implying he'd still be here if I had, just that he
enjoyed eating so much once I switched him I felt guilty for having
been afraid to try it for so long)

Shannon

Messages in this topic (9)
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3c. Re: older dog
Posted by: "Marjorie Trebino" mtrebino39@hotmail.com marjoriettt
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:24 pm ((PDT))

Hi Shannon
I am really really new to this list but I can tell you my experience. I
have 3 old old english. Two are 12 years old and one is 11 and a border
collie that is 4. I tried to switch them all over. One 12 year old and my
11 year old and of course the BC took to it like it was ice cream. The
other old girl would not eat. So I tried searing the meat. Still no go. I
tried cooking hamburger with just a small amount of raw. I tried cooking
ground turkey with just a small amout of raw. She just wanted her kibble.
She would eat raw egg though and loved that. I have not been feeding raw
for to long and I would offer her a bit of raw this and that. She now gets
her herbs in raw hamburger meat. She must have decided the other dogs were
getting something she wasnt. She will eat a small piece of raw steak still
won't touch liver or chicken but this morning I gave all the dogs a turkey
drum stick. I had planned on giving my big dog two but gave it to my old
girl and she ate a good part of the leg but left most of the meat. I am not
sure if she will live long enough to get to raw but at least I know she is
getting some really good stuff along with her kibble. She has a lot of
health issues so I was not willing to wait her out although I did not feed
her for one full day. Just did not feel her body could go longer without
food. I really feel good that my dogs are eathing raw and this
weekendeveryone was talking about how great my BC's coat looked. Must be
the raw I have not changed anything else. margie

>From: "Shannon Hully" <summerwolf@theherbalhotline.com>
>Reply-To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
>To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [rawfeeding] Re:older dog
>Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 18:33:42 -0000
>
>--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Doris Siefker" <dks7@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have a 8 1/2 yr old mini schnauzer who is on nature variety.
> > How do I start him on raw?
> > Any issue on starting one that's already a senior?
> > Doreen
>
>I started my 12 year old GSD with a digestive disease on raw a few
>months ago and it did wonders for him. It made his final months much
>more pleasurable for him. I only wish I'd made the switch much
>earlier! (not implying he'd still be here if I had, just that he
>enjoyed eating so much once I switched him I felt guilty for having
>been afraid to try it for so long)
>
>Shannon
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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3d. Re: older dog
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:20 pm ((PDT))

Hi Doreen,

I switched my 12 year old greyhound, and 8 year old Argentine dogo to raw 8 and 4 months ago respectively and had no problems. I switched them both cold turkey (so to speak) and neither of them had any problems with the adjustment. They both went through a "detox" period, having mucous in the stools and runny eyes, etc...but that only lasted a couple of weeks and they are doing wonderfully. I started the Greyhound on a ready made raw diet consisting of veggies and meat, and after getting much needed advice from this list, I switched her to raw meat, bones and organ only...and a bit of egg. They Dogo was switched directly to prey model and he's doing wonderfully. His coat went from sparse and dry to full, soft and he is shedding much less!

Ditch the Natures Variety right away and give him the good stuff....it's so easy to do!

Shannon

Doris Siefker <dks7@cox.net> wrote:
I have a 8 1/2 yr old mini schnauzer who is on nature variety.
How do I start him on raw?
Any issue on starting one that's already a senior?
Doreen
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Messages in this topic (9)
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4a. Re: fresh meat
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:44 am ((PDT))

No reason to unless you are feeding fresh squirrels or wild rabbits or boar.
Most grocery food meat has already been frozen, but regardless there is no
need to freeze commercial food.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "doreenchui" <doreenchui@yeos.com>

do u need to freeze all meats before feeding?

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: rawfeeding
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:48 am ((PDT))

Greg,

No need to wean...just buy a chicken or two, cut into quarters, hand to
dogs. I feed my Danes chickens halves or whole depending on size, fish,
turkey, pork roasts of various kinds, slabs of ribs, beef cheeks, heart,
tripe, brisket, whole oxtail.
And tongue, liver, kidney and whatever other organs I can find from various
critters. No special menu...whatever I find on sale and is in my freezer
gets fed!

Take a look at Kevin's recipe section....
http://www.RawFedDogs.net/

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Greg Cobb" <gcobb13@yahoo.com>

> I am looking for some ideas and menus for a 2 1/2 f Neo and 12 m Lab mix;
would like to know how fast to ween them from the other stuff; also looking
for some people to let me know what they feed their dogs in the course of a
day and week; cost of rawfeeding.

Messages in this topic (24)
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5b. Re: rawfeeding
Posted by: "susan/foxfire" fxfireob@mac.com thadnsusan
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:24 pm ((PDT))

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007, at 12:10 PM, Greg Cobb wrote:

> I am looking for some ideas and menus for a 2 1/2 f Neo and 12 m
> Lab mix;
We feed once a day with occasional "fasting" day but only if they are
on weight if underweight we don't fast
> would like to know how fast to ween them from the other stuff;
We never weaned instead just stop the old food and give the new.
sometimes they can get diarrhea but we wouldn't get concerned unless
it goes on for more than a 3 or 4 days, because some of it is
necessary detoxing. If it does last we use something to bind like
clay & pectin or you can use a product like these http://
wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/tummy_trouble.html or http://

www.nativeremedies.com/petalive/petaliverunipoo-pet-diarrhea.html.

My feeling is feeding kibble and raw at the same time you run the
risk of bloat, better to let them work it out and support the body
while making the transition if it needs it.
> also looking for some people to let me know what they feed their
> dogs in the course of a day and week; cost of rawfeeding.
>
> Greg Cobb
>
We buy in bulk and for the most part we eat the same meats as our
dogs eat. We try having at least 3 different meats in rotation at any
one time. Right now we have beef, chicken, pork, lamb, goat, buffalo
& salmon, and try and keep any one meat source as no more than 1/3 of
their diet. If we do end up with lots of one meat and feed only one
meat we try and not feed it more then a few months then dropping it
or dramatically reduce for a few months.

We feed about 2% adult body wt (more if your dogs are working high
energy output dogs; less if they seem to have a slower metabolism)
and it costs on average about $2/lb. but it depends on your sources
chicken is clearly cheapest - we pay about $.60/lb for natural raise;
and meats like goat can be as much as $3.50 or more; and if you buy
commercially raised or natural, pastured or grass-fed meats the price
will greatly effect the price as does buying in large amounts or small.

hth,
Susan

Messages in this topic (24)
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6a. Re: cooked bones
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:55 am ((PDT))

There shouldn't really be any "recipes" that you need
for raw feeding.
Raw feeding is EXACTLY that, RAW.
Grab a chicken, a chunk of pork/beef/lam/goat/rabbit
and give it to your dog. That's it.
Anything regarding "recipes" usually (from my
understanding) includes either pressure cooking, rice,
yogurt, pumpkin, grain-based oils, fruits and veggies.
ALL of which are species inappropriate for dogs.

Stick to raw, and don't worry about the rest.

Nathalie

there are recipes I see
> people feeding that
> use the pressure cooker and they say those bones are
> okay? Why is that?

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Messages in this topic (6)
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7a. Re: Another (less severe) vomiting question
Posted by: "Erica Mills" millser25@yahoo.com millser25
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:56 am ((PDT))

My GSD ended up getting EPI, which is actually genetic in the breed, at 18 months. It can come up at any age in dogs.

Thanks Shannon,
What is EPI?
Erica


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Messages in this topic (5)
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8a. Re: protein percentage?
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:58 am ((PDT))

Just for the record, I'm pretty sure that vets ask
what you feed your dog because that opens a way for
them to make more money by pushing whatever dog food
they have at their office.
Since most people believe/trust blindly, they'll buy
their dogs whatever food is "best" for them,
especially if it's backed by a vet.

Luckily for all of us, however, we know better not to
be fooled by any of their shananigans!

Nathalie

> It's seriously none of your vet's business what
> you're feeding. You are
> paying him to diagnose a problem. Or even for
> regular wellness visits and
> checkups (which we don't do).

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Messages in this topic (10)
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9a. Re: Okay, how much diarreha is too much for a 9 week GS pup?
Posted by: "Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com" Hllywoodcaper7@aol.com irishcateyes1
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:59 am ((PDT))

Thanks Chris! Will do! Tamatha :)

Any dog can teach a child responsibility and commitment.

A German Shepherd Dog will show the child the meaning
of dedication.

"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life,
his love, his leader. He will be yours faithful and true, to the last beat of
his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." --Unknown

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Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. Re: muscles building
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:59 am ((PDT))

"What type of meat is good for musle building? Beef or venison?"

Based on my recent experience VENISON. I just ran out and switched to beef
from my butcher (way too fatty for summer) and my bunch put on FAT
(slightly) but enough to notice. So right now mine are on whole chickens
until I can get venison in Sept. Major difference unless you are really
really giving them a work out - mine swim for 30 minutes daily in a very
swift moving river and although I know could have just cut back on the beef
intake, I like the leaness of venison way better.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

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Messages in this topic (2)
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11a. Re: Chicken feet
Posted by: "Marilyn Neil" ems1classic@btinternet.com marilyn9751
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:02 pm ((PDT))

Sounds like a horror story, how can you watch?

costrowski75 <Chriso75@AOL.COM> wrote:
I give one foot to my cat for a treat and though sometimes she eats the
whole thing, usually she nibbles the toes down to the stub. And leaves
the stub. Whatever the stub is called. Foot?
Chris O

Ems xxx

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (26)
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12a. Re: Constipation
Posted by: "Cheryl" parkbunny@verizon.net vessels13
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:10 pm ((PDT))

oh boy Jeni, tweak it eh? aggggg. okay. I don't know about ratios yet
so please don't throw that in there. Let me get my feet wet with the
idea of the chicken backs and when. Then we can go on ratio. I hope I
really don't have to do that. I hate math. I just want to take a hunk of
meat or what ever, add veggies and go. lol KISS for me.
I'm counting this chicken piece and a Natures Variety breakfast.
Cheryl

John and Jeni Blackmon wrote:
> No.
> Boy, you ask easy questions:)
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (20)
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12b. Re: Constipation
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:00 pm ((PDT))

Cheryl,

You are going to have to think about ratios a *little* bit or you are going
to end up feeding far too much bone. The majority of the diet needs to be
meat...right now you are feeding wings and talking about backs, both of
which are far too bony. Plus I would just about guarantee that Nature's
Variety is high in bone and thus lacking in meat and fat.

It is really simple, but you need to keep in mind that close to 80% should
be meat, only 10% edible bone and 10% organs....no veggies! You don't
really have to weigh and get carried away with ratios...just look at the
food and make sure it is a tiny bit of bone slathered in lots of nice meat!
A chicken breast would be a better example of a meaty bone than a back or
wing...it is about 20% bone.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Cheryl" <parkbunny@verizon.net>

> oh boy Jeni, tweak it eh? aggggg. okay. I don't know about ratios yet
> so please don't throw that in there. Let me get my feet wet with the
> idea of the chicken backs and when. Then we can go on ratio. I hope I
> really don't have to do that. I hate math. I just want to take a hunk of
> meat or what ever, add veggies and go. lol KISS for me.
> I'm counting this chicken piece and a Natures Variety breakfast.

Messages in this topic (20)
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12c. Re: Constipation
Posted by: "Ross Senger" rosssenger@shaw.ca rosssenger
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:27 pm ((PDT))

> I'm having the opposite problem that most of the
> others who just made the switch seem to be having.
> Harley has been really constipated yesterday and
> today.

I had the same problem with my Danes to begin with. My older Dane (1
year 9 months now) actually wasent able to push it out... got stuck
half way... he ran over to me with a hunched back whining for help. I
had to grab some toilet paper and assist :P

I have learned since that the proper amount of organs (%5 kidney, %5
liver) is really important. And if you are really worred about
constipation give them a feed of liver and stand back!

I now bag up organs in small ziploc bags with one days ration in
them. Unthaw and feew one bag per dog per day.

Hope that helps,

-Ross S

Messages in this topic (20)
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13a. Tell me about 'tripe'
Posted by: "pvojtas" pam.vojtas@datacore.com pvojtas
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:25 pm ((PDT))

Ok, we have made the plunge - Charlie and Quincy enjoyed their chicken
breast w/ ribs last night! So today I visited Walmart to see what other
cool things I could buy (got more chicken parts, some pork country ribs
and chicken hearts). There I saw two different types of tripe:
honeycomb, which looked like white bubble wrap and beef tripe, which
just looked disgusting. I had been feeding the boys canned Solid Gold
Green Cow Tripe, which they loved. Any one have any thoughts on raw
tripe?
Pam
p.s. Still can't bring myself to buy things I recognize - no chicken
feet, no pigs feet, and certainly no tongue. Maybe someday I'll get
over it.....

Messages in this topic (3)
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13b. Re: Tell me about 'tripe'
Posted by: "outcats4@aol.com" outcats4@aol.com barb5ducks
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:20 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/27/2007 4:27:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pam.vojtas@datacore.com writes:

p.s. Still can't bring myself to buy things I recognize - no chicken
feet

All I know is dont buy the white tripe in the foodstores, its bleached,
processed and acid washed and has basically no nutrient value.

I have been buying chicken feet, but cant get myself to give them to him, so
I boil them up and make a gel like broth. I still cant bear to look at them
in the pot. Im a vegetarian, and I also care for injured ducks, so it makes
some things just really difficult, but i can do gizzards, heart, liver, and
necks - just not duck!

barb

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Messages in this topic (3)
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13c. Re: Tell me about 'tripe'
Posted by: "Goin8@aol.com" Goin8@aol.com menoebs
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:20 pm ((PDT))

Green tripe ...if you buy it you should have another freezer or fridge for
only doggie food. It will make your household food stink and taste like well
....just like it smells. Like Sh!t. If you feed green tripe you need to have a
strong stomach and a bottle of clorox clean up handy because ANYTHING it
touches it will make smell like that and it doesnt come out with just soap n
water.
On the other hand....the dogs LOVE it. Its good for them!

Audrey Johnson

"My Goal in Life is to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am!"

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Messages in this topic (3)
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14a. How much
Posted by: "rbmc1231937" rbmc1231937@yahoo.com rbmc1231937
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:26 pm ((PDT))

how much tripe with gullet and spleen do I feed a 80 LB Dog to be of
benefit to his healthy diet. It id expensive with the shipping .
Barb&Reily

Messages in this topic (2)
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15a. Re: Vomiting up all raw food?
Posted by: "Ross Senger" rosssenger@shaw.ca rosssenger
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:33 pm ((PDT))

When I first started my dogs on raw they would eat and swallow too
fast. There bones wouldnt be chewed up enough and they would Vomit. I
justleft them in the room and 99.9% of the time it would be gone within
mins... gross but true. They didnt chew enough the first time and
needed to "re-chew" the food.

As long as they are still pooping, and still seem heathy, they probably
are. Just give them some time to eat or "re-eat", don't hover over
them, some dogs get pretty embarrised when eating.

good luck

-Ross S

Messages in this topic (8)
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