[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11856

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Enhanced Pork
From: Nathalie Poulin
1b. Re: Enhanced Pork
From: Laurie Swanson

2a. Re: Not eating raw...
From: Sandee Lee
2b. Re: Not eating raw...
From: chaparraltrail

3a. Re: losing hair - Aaron
From: Giselle

4a. Re: losing hair
From: ginny wilken
4b. Re: losing hair
From: pet.wellness
4c. Re: losing hair
From: Monica

5a. Re: Windfall
From: linoleum5017
5b. Re: Windfall
From: linoleum5017
5c. Re: Windfall
From: chele519

6a. Re: Swordfish and Haddock
From: costrowski75

7a. Upset stomach
From: doreenchui
7b. Re: Upset stomach
From: Sandee Lee
7c. Re: Upset stomach
From: doreenchui

8a. Re: Poe loves her bones...
From: Katie

9a. Rabbit?
From: Elizabeth
9b. Re: Rabbit?
From: Casey Post
9c. Re: Rabbit?
From: jmwise80
9d. Re: Rabbit?
From: Elizabeth
9e. Re: Rabbit?
From: Elizabeth

10a. Re: Lazy eater
From: Morledzep@aol.com
10b. Re: Lazy eater
From: Laurie Swanson

11a. Re: older dog
From: Morledzep@aol.com

12a. Re: fresh meat
From: doreenchui

Messages
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1a. Enhanced Pork
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:20 pm ((PDT))

Hey Gang,

I was at the grocery store (loblaws, Canada) today and
I wanted to pick up some pork for my dog but ALL of
the good chunks are enhanced with salt. There was not
one piece of pork that I could get without some kind
of spiced/salted enhancement.
(The butcher that I go to doesn't have pork.)

Is there anywhere else you can get pork that might not
be enhanced?

Nathalie

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Messages in this topic (11)
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1b. Re: Enhanced Pork
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:17 am ((PDT))

Hi Nathalie,

I go to one moderate and one higher-priced store that both
have "natural" pork without any enhancements. Pork is still pretty
reasonably-priced at these stores, especially when on sale.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nathalie Poulin
<poulin_nathalie@...> wrote:
>
> Is there anywhere else you can get pork that might not
> be enhanced?
>

Messages in this topic (11)
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2a. Re: Not eating raw...
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:37 pm ((PDT))

Jamie,

I would bet the problem is that when they don't eat the food you have made
up for them, they are offered kibble and canned, both of which are probably
far more flavorful with all the enhancers, etc., and those carbs are
addictive. I doubt it's the vegetables they like...most likely it was
cooked chicken, which again is more flavorful than raw.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Jamie Dolan" <jamiedolan@gmail.com>
>
> My parents are not willing to feed only once a day, and they are not
> willing to allow the dogs to skip a meal if they don't want to eat the
> barf mix. If they don't eat there barf, then they get canned or dry.
>
> My mom thinks they like vegetables, she cooked them some chicken with
> vegetables last week and I guess they all ate it.

Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: Not eating raw...
Posted by: "chaparraltrail" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:18 am ((PDT))

> After about a month, the maltese stoped wanted to eat my barf mix for
> some reason, so she got switched back to some cheap canned food.
>
> Now 1 of the shih tzu's (the youngest one about a year and a half)
> often refuses to eat her barf mix.
>
> I can't figure out why they won't eat it at all.

Do your parents believe raw food is better? Or are they just humoring
you? They have set things up such that it is very hard to succeed,
unless the dogs actually prefer raw. If they believe in what you are
doing, perhaps education will help. If not...that's a tough one.

Have you tried changing the formula? Perhaps they really prefer one
kind of meat (duck, salmon, chicke...whatever!) By trying single
foods, you may find some they really like.

Lightly searing the food might help, since they are more accustomed to
cooked or commercial.

This must be pretty frustrating. Is it possible the dogs are picking
that up, and reacting to it? Are your parents communicating to the
dogs that the barf mix is bad?

My dog prefers raw. The only food he is skeptical about is fish. Not
only do I need to cut it into peices, but to get him to try it the
first couple of times, I seared it, then got really excited and told
him how GREAT it was. He looked at me like I must be outta my mind,
but reluctantly ate it. I still need to cut it into chunks, but don't
need to sear it.

If your dogs get the message that raw is GOOD...their taste buds will
probably agree, sooner or later. If they pick up that it is BAD, or
OPTIONAL...they may continue to refuse.

Dogs are kind of like kids who never grow up. Sometimes you need to
model what you want, in a manner the species will understand. For
example, when we adopted our Labrador, he was afraid of water, ran
away from birds and lizards on the trail (they were SCARY), and acted
more like a toy poodle than a Lab. We not only had to teach what we
consider to be essential Labrador behavior, but convince him that he
was NOT BEING PUNISHED, that hiking is FUN, that he WOULD NOT PERISH
if he walked through a trickling stream, spent the night in the
forest, etc. (Now that I think about it...the poor guy was probably in
so much culture shock...he probably would have eaten ANYTHING! Raw-
scmaw...just protect him from things that make the leaves rustle along
the trail...)

Just a thought.

Lori

Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Re: losing hair - Aaron
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:19 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Aaron!
Its probably not a food allergy, but what exactly, are you
feeding? How much? When? What supplements or additives or treats other
people may give him?

We don't B.A.R.F. on this list, but can give you a better way, an
easier way, to feed your dog! : )

I'd point the blame at the environment if it were my dog. Fleas,
mites, some type of spray or chemical.(from inside or outside) Dogs
can have inhalant allergies that affect their skin, or contact
dermatitis.

Its hard to make any recommendations for your dog without a bunch more
info from you.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Chapman" <aaronchpmn@> wrote:
> >
> > so my dogs and I have been on the barf diet now for a couple of months
> > and now I'm noticing that my pit bull is starting to lose his hair on
> > his armpits(if u can call it that lol) and around one of his eyes he
> > has also been doing a lot of scratching underneath his armpits
> > also....is this a food allergy??? what is going on??????? thx in
advance
> >
> > confused and worried
> > Aaron
> >
> How much chicken does he eat? Has he been vaccinated recently?
> Pamela
> www.pet-wellness-update.com
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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4a. Re: losing hair
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:36 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 28, 2007, at 6:13 PM, pet.wellness wrote:

> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Chapman" <aaronchpmn@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> so my dogs and i have been on the barf diet now for a couple of
>> months
>> and now im noticing that my pit bull is starting to lose his hair on
>> his armpits(if u can call it that lol) and around one of his eyes he
>> has also been doing a lot of scratching underneath his armpits
>> also....is this a food allergy??? what is going on??????? thx in
>> advance
>>
>> confused and worried
>> Aaron
>>

You said BARF; does that include veggies? What do you feed? How old
is he? Has he had a full-panel thyroid test?

Don't worry; it may or may not be diet-related, but we can help you
get it figured out.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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4b. Re: losing hair
Posted by: "pet.wellness" pet.wellness@yahoo.com pet.wellness
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:38 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "scarebetty" <scarebetty@...> wrote:
>
> I switched my female to raw when she was about a month into her
> She is shedding a lot, not just individual hairs, but clumps in a
> couple of spots. Along with the shedding she also has a lot of
> dander. Where the hair is coming out in clumps, there is a scaling
> that I would call exema. I feed her a lot of chicken, some pork, very
> little beef. I'm trying to figure out if the hair loss is due to her
>> had a beautiful coat before I switched her-not saying that the raw
> isnt good for her, I know it is, just wonder what to do.
> Betty
>
My dog's hair loss stopped when I stopped feeding him chicken. Right
now after only 2 weeks on an elimination diet, he eats only grass-fed
beef and almost all his allergy symptoms are subsiding. Worth a try.
Pamela

www.pet-wellness-update.com

Messages in this topic (8)
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4c. Re: losing hair
Posted by: "Monica" mommyof2gals@comcast.net mommyof2gals
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:48 pm ((PDT))

Most post-partum bitches loose hair and generally look nasty (fur-wise)
after giving birth. Its just the toll of pregnancy and nursing. I know my
breeder warned me that "mom" wouldn't look so good when we picked up our pup
(we have Keeshonds - tons of hair, huge manes!) so we didn't think she was
ill. The books said the same thing so we know it was the truth. I've since
learned most other breeds go through similar experiences after pregnancy.

If she acts healthy, nurses well, plays, eats, poops etc. she is probably
fine. You can always check with a vet or another breeder to reassure
yourself. But I'm betting she's fine.

Monica in IL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (8)
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5a. Re: Windfall
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:37 pm ((PDT))

Kathy, thanks, I agree with the theory of it.... and I am going to try
it - a butcher near me sells pork heads, (which seems less gross b/c
it's smaller,) and I am working up the nerve to get one. Should take
the Nike challenge: Just do it!

Lynne

How much better it is to use the whole
> animal than to bury it in a landfill somewhere. KathyM who says
> just go for it because your dog will LOVE it.
>

Messages in this topic (10)
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5b. Re: Windfall
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:48 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "chele519" <chele519@...> wrote:
>
> little pigs feet were hanging out of
> the side of her mouth and twitching with every bite.
> Michele

Gee, Michele, thanks, um, for the ..... encouragement.

: )
Lynne

Messages in this topic (10)
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5c. Re: Windfall
Posted by: "chele519" chele519@yahoo.com chele519
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:48 pm ((PDT))

Sandy, you are right. They were not alive. I could never do something
like that. It was hard enough for me to look at them before giving it
to the dog. Apparently it is pretty common for the mother pig to roll
over onto the babies and can't get up in time and they get crushed to
death. Cheryl, sorry that you thought that.
Michele

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cmhausrath" <cmhausrath@...> wrote:
>
> Cheryl <parkbunny@> wrote:
>
> > now that's gross. seeing something eaten live. wow...

> Erg, no, unless I'm the one who's misunderstanding here -- I believe
> the piglets had been crushed by the sow, which was why they were
dead, which was why they were sold (or given?) to a raw feeder.

Messages in this topic (10)
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6a. Re: Swordfish and Haddock
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:18 pm ((PDT))

"chele519" <chele519@...> wrote:
>
> I've never fed fish to my dogs yet but got a few pieces of both of
> these today. I don't eat fish myself so I don't know anything about
> them. Are these ok to feed?
*****
Please refer to these websites to determine the health of the fish
you've got your hands on. There are other sites as well if you need
them. And don't forget to use Google for even more references.

http://www.oceansalive.org/eat.cfm?subnav=bestandworst
http://www.mbayaq.org/cr/seafoodwatch.asp

Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Upset stomach
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:33 pm ((PDT))

I noticed that my whippet will have a upset stomach after about eight
days of feeding raw. He will have running stool for a day or two. I
will normally refrain from feeding him on these days. His diet consist
of mainly beef. I wonder is it too 'hot' for his system and therefore
have running stools.
When I first started him on raw, it was chicken then beef, then
lamb/mutton.
As far as i know, Hounds are fussy eaters. These days, if i feed him
chicken, he does not eat even if i give it to him again next meal time.
It's really difficult to feed him.
When i feed him lamb/mutton, his stool is soft. Beef is fine but not
for long.........then appears his upset stomach.
I use to tell my friends, he needs a chef from a 6 star hotel!
To be honest, his eating pattern upsets me terribly.
Thanks for reading.
Doreen

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: Upset stomach
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:11 pm ((PDT))

Doreen,

You said in previous messages that you have been feeding Nature's Variety
and Abady. It's no wonder his system is screwed up.

You are in control of his eating pattern...dump all that junk and start
feeding him an appropriate raw diet.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "doreenchui" <doreenchui@yeos.com>

I noticed that my whippet will have a upset stomach after about eight
days of feeding raw. He will have running stool for a day or two. I
will normally refrain from feeding him on these days. His diet consist
of mainly beef. I wonder is it too 'hot' for his system and therefore
have running stools.
When I first started him on raw, it was chicken then beef, then
lamb/mutton.
As far as i know, Hounds are fussy eaters. These days, if i feed him
chicken, he does not eat even if i give it to him again next meal time.
It's really difficult to feed him.
When i feed him lamb/mutton, his stool is soft. Beef is fine but not
for long.........then appears his upset stomach.
I use to tell my friends, he needs a chef from a 6 star hotel!
To be honest, his eating pattern upsets me terribly.

Messages in this topic (3)
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7c. Re: Upset stomach
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:20 am ((PDT))

-The whippet is on full raw now. He younger, only 2, easily to
switch. As for the 'senior' schnauzer, I am switching slowly.
Doreen
-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Doreen,
>
> You said in previous messages that you have been feeding Nature's
Variety
> and Abady. It's no wonder his system is screwed up.
>
> You are in control of his eating pattern...dump all that junk and
start
> feeding him an appropriate raw diet.
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "doreenchui" <doreenchui@...>
>
>
> I noticed that my whippet will have a upset stomach after about
eight
> days of feeding raw. He will have running stool for a day or two. I
> will normally refrain from feeding him on these days. His diet
consist
> of mainly beef. I wonder is it too 'hot' for his system and
therefore
> have running stools.
> When I first started him on raw, it was chicken then beef, then
> lamb/mutton.
> As far as i know, Hounds are fussy eaters. These days, if i feed him
> chicken, he does not eat even if i give it to him again next meal
time.
> It's really difficult to feed him.
> When i feed him lamb/mutton, his stool is soft. Beef is fine but not
> for long.........then appears his upset stomach.
> I use to tell my friends, he needs a chef from a 6 star hotel!
> To be honest, his eating pattern upsets me terribly.
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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8a. Re: Poe loves her bones...
Posted by: "Katie" kcrockett@mac.com kcrockettla7
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:33 pm ((PDT))

lol - my little schipperke is the same way. She is 13, and I just started feeding a raw diet
about 4-5 weeks ago. tonight my goldens each had half of a chicken, which was already
chopped into pieces when I got it . . . i gave tara, my schip, and my border/aussie mix
boneless chicken breasts.
As soon as Tonka (the golden who eats closest to Tara) took a pice of his chicken outside,
she stole the other quarter and left her boneless breast for him. It's not the first time she's
done this . . . if she has boneless she'll try to steal a piece from another dog that has a bone!!

Katie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Nathalie Poulin <poulin_nathalie@...> wrote:
>
> Hey gang,
>
> I know that they're only supposed to get %10 edible
> bone, but my dog LOVES chewing on bones.
> When I give her a boneless meal, she always looks up
> at me, after, like I've jipped her out of what's due
> to her.

Messages in this topic (5)
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9a. Rabbit?
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:29 pm ((PDT))

Do anyone else's dogs hate rabbit? My dog will not eat rabbit-period.
Not even ground, not even cleverly disguised with eggs, ground beef,
ground goat, etc. I gave up feeding it to her. I just was wondering if
this was common amongst people's dogs!
-Liz

Messages in this topic (12)
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9b. Re: Rabbit?
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:33 pm ((PDT))

> Do anyone else's dogs hate rabbit?

Yep. Rabbit seems to be one of those "love it or hate it" foods - some dogs
just don't go for it at all, some dive right in.

FWIW, my Lab really, really tried to eat rabbit. He just couldn't stand the
taste of it and made such a face every time he tried to gag it down (hey,
he's a Lab and he knows it's food, so he did try very hard to eat it). He
even tried to eat the bones out of the meat without touching the meat - a
lost cause, there, but he tried.

In my world, life is too short to try and make a dog eat a food he obviously
doesn't like, so we nixed the rabbit for him, no biggie.

Casey

Messages in this topic (12)
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9c. Re: Rabbit?
Posted by: "jmwise80" jmwise80@yahoo.com jmwise80
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:16 am ((PDT))

Mine hates it too. He can be a food guarder if left unchecked. With
rabbit he didn't give a darn and probably would have gave it away.

Michael Wise

Messages in this topic (12)
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9d. Re: Rabbit?
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:18 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Casey Post" <mikken@...> wrote:
FWIW, my Lab really, really tried to eat rabbit. He just couldn't
stand the
> taste of it and made such a face every time he tried to gag it down
(hey,
> he's a Lab and he knows it's food, so he did try very hard to eat
it). He
> even tried to eat the bones out of the meat without touching the
meat - a
> lost cause, there, but he tried.
Casey

Casey,
That is pretty amusing because my dog does the exact same thing! She
tried to eat it, but just could not stand it! The only instance she
would eat rabbit in was when I used to feed Oma's Pride freeze-dried
rabbit to her. I think it must be the texture she hates or something!
But yes, she would make that disgusted face anytime I would try to
encourage her to eat rabbit.
-Liz

Messages in this topic (12)
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9e. Re: Rabbit?
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:18 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
>
> That said, rabbit is "redder" than chicken but "whiter" than beef. I
> suppose to be decisive, I'd classify rabbit as white meat.
> Chris Ostrowski
>
That's really interesting Chris... I didn't know that about red meat!
I honestly thought it was just the way the animal is. But, that does
explain veal pretty well.
-Liz

Messages in this topic (12)
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10a. Re: Lazy eater
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:00 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/28/2007 6:55:33 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mrsdog_lover@yahoo.com writes:

Sometimes I get
fed up, and after 1 hour, I put it straight back in the fridge until
the next morning.
Other times I pretend to give it to an other dog, calling it's name,
and he soon hurrys up to eat!! I sometimes think I've to do with a
stubborn child, or maybe he likes all this fuss and attention!!
Where am I doing things wrong???

Marisa,

this sounds like a dog that has more to eat than he needs. any food left
without being eaten for more than 20 minutes should be picked up and put away
until the next meal time.

Meal time here is at the very most daily.. sometimes every other day..
depending on the size of the last meal.. and what mood i'm in.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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10b. Re: Lazy eater
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:18 am ((PDT))

I don't know much about feeding multiple dogs, but I'm wondering if
he's not comfortable eating, like he can't relax and eat because he's
too busy being on guard and protecting his food from the other dogs.
Seems to me there was a similar situation posted here a few months
ago. When the person started feeding the dog separately (in a crate
or at a different time or in a different room/area), the dog started
eating fine.

Not sure how much you're feeding...it could also be he's getting too
much food and never getting hungry.

Just some thoughts,

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Marisa" <mrsdog_lover@...> wrote:
> Initially, he took the change with enthusiasm, but later on he
started
> to leave his food for later on, keeping an eye on it from the other
> dogs.
> He stays layed down a little distance from it and looks at it with
> indecision!! He often does eat it in the end,after having charged
off
> all evening, who dares to have a sniff at his food!!

Messages in this topic (5)
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11a. Re: older dog
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:11 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/28/2007 6:56:34 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mmlodge@att.net writes:

Now bash away, but I know there are plenty of you here who do the same
thing, you all talk via email because we are all afraid to say we feed
some veggies!!

Melissa,

you must be thinking of someone who really gives a damn what the folks on
this list think..

i got good info from people i trust, and i backed it up with solid research..
and i do NOT feed my dogs veggies as part of their regular diet. But the
baby wolfdog decided she wanted to try a bite of Dad's barbequed zucchini tonight
at dinner.. she didn't ask for a second bite.

I participate on this list to help other folks.. once in awhile.. when i can
get my head on straight and be nice.

Catherine R.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (24)
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12a. Re: fresh meat
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:17 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
>
> "v_rod_or" <v_rod_or@> wrote:
> >
> > > do u need to freeze all meats before feeding?
> >
> > I've heard from several respected folks here that fish (at least
some
> > kinds) should be frozen first...think this has something to do
with
> > bones. Maybe someone can elaborate further?
> *****
> Has zipola to do with bones. It's recommended that fish,
especially
> wild fish, of unknown or uncertain provenence be frozen to kill
> parasites. This is true for all wild meats--ineqivocally. If you
are
> unsure about the critter's circumstances, freeze first.
Freeze for 24/48 or 72 hrs?
Doreen
>
> Freezing will kill parasites; it will not remove toxins, neither
will
> cooking. So if the fish may have come from polluted water--if the
fish
> is not one you would eat yourself--think again about feeding it to
your
> dog.
>
> Bones are not generally affected by freezing.
> Chris o
>

Messages in this topic (6)
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