[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11858

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: fresh meat
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: Rabbit?
From: costrowski75
2b. Re: Rabbit?
From: Monica
2c. Re: Rabbit?
From: Christy B
2d. Re: Rabbit?
From: Nathalie Poulin
2e. Re: Rabbit?
From: Yasuko herron
2f. Re: Rabbit?
From: Yasuko herron
2g. Re: Rabbit?
From: Elizabeth
2h. Re: variety of protin and pork kidney
From: Yasuko herron

3a. Re: Tripe 1st time
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: Upset stomach
From: Giselle
4b. Re: Upset stomach
From: Sandee Lee

5a. A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
From: cresco299
5b. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
From: Nathalie Poulin
5c. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
From: costrowski75
5d. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
From: chaparraltrail
5e. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
From: brutus_buckley

6a. Re: A nervous newbie with some specific challenges - gulping
From: mwood8402

7.1. File - Other related lists
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com

8a. File - Admin-Trim it, Sign it, and Sig lines-PLEASE READ!!!
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com

9a. Re: losing hair
From: scarebetty

10a. Re: Buffalo
From: Yasuko herron

11. dangers of "home cooked"
From: Michael Moore

12a. constipation ?
From: outcats4@aol.com
12b. Re: constipation ?
From: Giselle

Messages
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1a. Re: fresh meat
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:08 am ((PDT))

"doreenchui" <doreenchui@...> wrote:
> Freeze for 24/48 or 72 hrs?
> Doreen
*****
Depends on the oomph of your freezer. A really competent freezer can
probably do the job in 24 hours after the fish is frozen solid--so two
days maybe? I'd say--so that you don't have to keep looking at the
clock--a week is a good amount of time. Almost certainly more than
needs to be done, but a week seems to fit nicely inot a "set it and
forget it" mentality.

Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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2a. Re: Rabbit?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:17 am ((PDT))

"Elizabeth" <rainsou1@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > That said, rabbit is "redder" than chicken but "whiter" than
beef. I
> > suppose to be decisive, I'd classify rabbit as white meat.
> > Chris Ostrowski
> >
> That's really interesting Chris... I didn't know that about red
meat!
> I honestly thought it was just the way the animal is. But, that does
> explain veal pretty well.
*****
Boy, this pull quoate is the result of some serious archive surfing!

Probably rabbit is considered red meat but lack of exercise for
commercial bunnies keeps the meat from becoming red, just as lack of
exercise keeps factory chicken meat whiter than it is in freerange
chickens. Veal flesh is pale because the calf's movement is highly
restricted. Left to its own devices, a calf would be active and its
flesh would be red.

Pork flesh is often paler now than it used to be, not because white
meat pigs have been developed but because contemporary pork
production greatly limits piggy movement (see veal).

In all critters, the more activity the muscles get, the redder they
are.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (21)
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2b. Re: Rabbit?
Posted by: "Monica" mommyof2gals@comcast.net mommyof2gals
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:31 am ((PDT))

The first time my one dog, Loki, tried rabbit he loved it! The other dog,
Tyr, didn't want anything to do with it, but still.when I saw a great sale I
loaded up for Loki.

He has never eaten it again and I've tried several times. Ugh.

I think Tyr whispered something nasty about rabbit to him. ;-(

Monica, Loki & Tyr in IL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (21)
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2c. Re: Rabbit?
Posted by: "Christy B" christyb@cox.net christyb14
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:24 am ((PDT))

When Lola got skinned rabbit she loved it; when she got fur-on gutted
rabbit it took her about 45 minutes to dig in; when she got whole
(fur, head, guts, etc...) rabbit she was confused which could have
easily been mistaken for disgust. It took her 2 days of avoiding,
smelling, pushing it around, turning it around, licking and finally
me hacking into the leg for her to gingerly try it - I left the
rabbit out the entire 2 days which I typically would not have done.
The next rabbit same things but only 1 day or so to finally eat it
and by the third whole rabbit she had figured it out.

Honestly, I think that there is confusion - it kind of looks like a
toy or perhaps could be confused for another animal (puppy/kitten/
etc...) that they know they would be in trouble for being too rough
with - and in my experience it was a waiting it out experience.
However, if anyone who bought rabbit but has given up on it and you
are "stuck" with rabbit and live in southern California, contact me!

Good Luck,
Christy

On Jul 29, 2007, at 8:16 AM, Monica wrote:
> The first time my one dog, Loki, tried rabbit he loved it! The
> other dog, Tyr, didn't want anything to do with it, but still.when
> I saw a great sale I loaded up for Loki.
>
> I think Tyr whispered something nasty about rabbit to him. ;-(
>
> Monica

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (21)
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2d. Re: Rabbit?
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:45 am ((PDT))

My dog didn't like it much either, she ate only the
boniest part (previous post: Poe loves her bones) and
left the rest. She wouldn't touch it.
It's just one kind of meat though, so I wouldn't be
too worried.

Nathalie

--- Elizabeth <rainsou1@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Do anyone else's dogs hate rabbit? My dog will not
> eat rabbit-period.
> Not even ground, not even cleverly disguised with
> eggs, ground beef,
> ground goat, etc. I gave up feeding it to her. I
> just was wondering if
> this was common amongst people's dogs!
> -Liz
>
>

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Messages in this topic (21)
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2e. Re: Rabbit?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:20 am ((PDT))

>I just was wondering if this was common amongst people's dogs!

Hi,Liz. I have just introduced rabbit to my dog recently. Like pauline's dog, my dog try to get the bone out from meat,but since she find it hard ,so,she end up eating all but not thrilled.
Since I found it on first day of introducing rabbit meat and plus she had little wet poo end,so,I cut the rabbit portion half and combined with chicken feet and other meat to feed entire meal. I show rabbit only first and after she finish it up,Igrabb the other part of meal and let her finish off her meal so that she is not going to pick other meat and leave rabbit left.

She is not completely refusing to eat,but not thrilled. I still have more rabbit in freezer so,I think I will feed it as combo meal with some other meat.That makes easier for her to finish it off her rabbit.

After I finish it off the rabbit.. possible that it will be pulled from menu.

Now,how many protin sourcee are you all feeding? I was curious if for example,commercially available beef,lamb,chicken,Turkey,Pork,fish are good enough just that or not.
I know that rawfeeding needs variety of protin source but if those are good enough just that?

Curious.

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (21)
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2f. Re: Rabbit?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:22 am ((PDT))

>In all critters, the more activity the muscles get, the redder they are.

Hi,Chris. That is interesting to know! If that was true,then, goat or Elk or ostrich (Have not fed it to palette but saw very red color in meat) is excersising very well and that is why meat is red.

It is more interesting if you think about fish. Some fish is white meat like flounder and some is quite red like Tuna and some is pinky like snapper,and some are orange like Salmon.
I wonder if that all relating to how much they swim ?? Just curious thoughts.

But,rabbit talk was very interesting,thank you,Chris.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (21)
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2g. Re: Rabbit?
Posted by: "Elizabeth" rainsou1@yahoo.com rainsou1
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:43 am ((PDT))

Hi Yassy,
Well I'm feeding pretty much all those things! I feed chicken, turkey,
duck, lamb, goat, beef, pork, fish, eggs and cornish rock hens. For
organs I feed beef tripe and spleen; beef, chicken and lamb hearts
(more as a muscle meat;) Beef and chicken liver, and beef kidney. I
think what you're feeding is enough as long as you include some organs.
-Liz

> Now,how many protin sourcee are you all feeding? I was curious if
for example,commercially available beef,lamb,chicken,Turkey,Pork,fish
are good enough just that or not.
> I know that rawfeeding needs variety of protin source but if those
are good enough just that?
>
> Curious.
>
> yassy
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who
knows.
> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (21)
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2h. Re: variety of protin and pork kidney
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:29 pm ((PDT))

> I feed chicken, turkey,duck, lamb, goat, beef, pork, fish, eggs and cornish rock hens. For
>organs I feed beef tripe and spleen; beef, chicken and lamb hearts(more as a muscle >meat;) Beef and chicken liver, and beef kidney.

Hi,Liz.Thank you for your response. Since I read a lot that protin needs to be varied for rawfeeding unlike kibble which you can keep feeding same flavor long time although routate every 3 months to other brand,I was aiming to gather various kinds of protin but if those were good enough then,I may be able to bit cost down. Good to know. Thank you.

I am reserving Duck and cornish hen for elimination diet if or when palette needed such diet.

Do you know any grocery store you can buy pork kidney? I thought shoppers was carrying it but they carry just pork liver not pork kidney. I am not in hurry but if you know grocery store that carry it,please let me know.

pepspoultry in PA is holding my pending order for a month now and, I cannot rely on if things come here or not,so,I ordered almost same thing to others and I forgot to get pork kidney when I did so. My freezer does not have much space and i was tending to get 1lb or 2 lb package at grocery store but so far,I have not found strore that carry it.
I definitely can wait till next stock up time,but I wanted to know if any grocery store carry it.

THank you

yassy

---------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (21)
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3a. Re: Tripe 1st time
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:32 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, <Bordomom@...> wrote:
>
> I'm picking up 5 lbs. tripe today. Can someone tell roughly how
much to feed a 120lb. dog the 1st time out.
*****
I've never thought of green tripe as a "back into" sort of food. If
your dog needs slow intros for digestive stability, you should
definitely introduce green tripe as you would any new food.
Add "some" to a meal, a side dish as it were.

If your dog doesn't have new food issues, feed more tripe.

FWIW, no dog I have fed green tripe to has had digestive distress as
a result. It is not unusual for me to feed my adult retrievers a big
pile of meat trim plus an equal amount of green tripe. That's
probably a pound or so of tripe--no digestive issues.

Five pounds of green tripe for a 120lb dog will not last very long!
If you need it to last longer, feed it as a side dish. If you can
readily get more, feed it more generously.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Upset stomach
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:15 am ((PDT))

Hi, Doreen!
I noticed that you don't mention you feed turkey or pork?
what about trying fish or venison, or goat or rabbit? Are you feeding
organs, like liver, kidneys, sweet breads, etc.? Beef or veal heart
can be a great source of red meat.

In your later message you mention that you are switching an older dog
over to raw slowly. Kibble in the house with a fussy dog *may* make
them hold out for the more familiar, smellier stuff.

I'd ditch the kibble and get the smell of it out of the house!

I'm not sure how you package your raw for the freezer, but you could
place meal sized portions in plastic bags and freeze them. That way,
you could feed a day or two of chicken, then move easily to a day or
two of beef, then on to another protein.

Does he prefer boneless meat, or enjoy crunching bones? Offering
something crunchy, like a chicken foot or pork neck bone to chew along
with a boneless meal may make it more palatable.

Feeding probiotics, digestive enzymes before a beef meal may help his
digestion of it. Get the kind that are enteric coated and need to be
refrigerated.

Slippery Elm Bark Powder may help if he gets to the point of stomach
upset and runny stools.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I noticed that my whippet will have a upset stomach after about eight
> days of feeding raw. He will have running stool for a day or two. I
> will normally refrain from feeding him on these days. His diet consist
> of mainly beef. I wonder is it too 'hot' for his system and therefore
> have running stools.
> When I first started him on raw, it was chicken then beef, then
> lamb/mutton.
> As far as I know, Hounds are fussy eaters. These days, if i feed him
> chicken, he does not eat even if i give it to him again next meal time.
> It's really difficult to feed him.
> When I feed him lamb/mutton, his stool is soft. Beef is fine but not
> for long.........then appears his upset stomach.
> I use to tell my friends, he needs a chef from a 6 star hotel!
> To be honest, his eating pattern upsets me terribly.
> Thanks for reading.
> Doreen
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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4b. Re: Upset stomach
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:24 pm ((PDT))

Oh, I'm sorry. Somehow I missed that these were two different dogs you were
switching!

So...how long has he been eating raw? A few days ago you said he was
getting raw in the morning and Abady at night...so did you just quit the dry
food in the past few days? When you say he is on full raw now, what does
that mean? What exactly are you feeding?
Mostly beef would mean mainly meat, no bone....is that right???

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "doreenchui" <doreenchui@yeos.com>

-The whippet is on full raw now. He younger, only 2, easily to
switch. As for the 'senior' schnauzer, I am switching slowly.
Doreen
-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Doreen,
>
> You said in previous messages that you have been feeding Nature's
Variety
> and Abady. It's no wonder his system is screwed up.
>
> From: "doreenchui" <doreenchui@...>
>
>
> I noticed that my whippet will have a upset stomach after about
eight
> days of feeding raw. He will have running stool for a day or two. I
> will normally refrain from feeding him on these days. His diet
consist
> of mainly beef. I wonder is it too 'hot' for his system and
therefore
> have running stools.
> When I first started him on raw, it was chicken then beef, then
> lamb/mutton.

Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
Posted by: "cresco299" gentry.jeffrey@yahoo.com cresco299
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:27 am ((PDT))

I had a startling revelation last night that I thought could be
beneficial to the rest of the "newbies" out there like myself.

I've been feeding raw for about 4 weeks now and like most of you, it
has been primarily chicken. I typically cut a whole chicken into
quarters for individual meals. Cutting the meat is often extremely
messy or extremely difficult; depending on how frozen it is.

Last night, I was feeling a little frustrated with various issues and
just didn't feel like taking the time to thaw out a chicken to the
point where I could cut it up. So, I ran out to the shed, grabbed my
hack saw and went to town.

This was a cheap hacksaw that I got at Home Depot for about $10. It
sliced through a frozen chicken like a hot knife through butter. And
there was very minimal mess (no fluids, blood, etc). Even better,
because the teeth on the hack saw are so fine, the sections of bone
that were cut into were so smooth it was as if I hadn't even cut the bone.

It would help to let it thaw for bit, so its not so darn slippery but
I think the Hack Saw is a real nice addition to my kitchen utensils!

Jeff

Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
Posted by: "Nathalie Poulin" poulin_nathalie@yahoo.ca poulin_nathalie
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:46 am ((PDT))

You know what else works really well?
Just give the dog the whole chicken. No need for a
hack saw, no mess, no fuss! (Well maybe a little mess,
but that's to be expected when feeding raw!)

Nathalie

I typically cut a whole
> chicken into
> quarters for individual meals. Cutting the meat is
> often extremely
> messy or extremely difficult;

> This was a cheap hacksaw that I got at Home Depot
> for about $10. It
> sliced through a frozen chicken like a hot knife
> through butter. And
> there was very minimal mess (no fluids, blood, etc).

> I think the Hack Saw is a real nice addition to my
> kitchen utensils!
>
> Jeff
>
>

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Messages in this topic (5)
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5c. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:10 am ((PDT))

"cresco299" <gentry.jeffrey@...> wrote:
>> This was a cheap hacksaw that I got at Home Depot for about $10. It
> sliced through a frozen chicken like a hot knife through butter.
*****
I used to use a hacksaw when dismantling turkeys but now rely on
pruning shears to cut through the bone; chickens take about three
minutes with a pair of EMT shears (kitchen shears are fine) and are
neither messy nor difficult.

I think your solution is more gizmo infatuation than anything, but
given the stress you're under right now, if gizmoid entertainment
provides some relief, who's to say no?

If you've got something big and frozen that needs feeding, give put it
out and let the dog work on it to its satisfaction.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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5d. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
Posted by: "chaparraltrail" chaparraltrail@yahoo.com chaparraltrail
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:21 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> I think your solution is more gizmo infatuation than anything

One person's "gizmo" is another person's salvation. As an ultra-light
backpacker, I have had friends laugh at some of my strange
innovations...only to have them try it later and like it. Likewise I
have thought someone else's methods are bizzarre, only to find later
on that I really liked them.

As a species that relies heavily on tools, we are all a bit gizmo-
infatuated, IMHO. It is "species-appropriate."

;-)

Lori

Messages in this topic (5)
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5e. Re: A Eureka Moment....Hack Saw Heaven!
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:07 pm ((PDT))

Maybe I'm having an off day, but I found the "you know what else works,
just give the dog the whole chicken" reply to this post rather snotty
and unnecessary. I appreciate people offering tips/tricks they have
discovered to be handy.
Having just been on vacation, carrying around whole chickens would have
been a tad inconvenient. Of course, I wouldn't have carried around a
hacksaw either, but hopefully I made a point in there somewhere <g>

-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Re: A nervous newbie with some specific challenges - gulping
Posted by: "mwood8402" mwood8402@hotmail.com mwood8402
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:19 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jbronwen" <bronwenjones@...> wrote:

>My toothless wonder (or 'less teeth' wonder) tackled a whole chicken
>breast today!
***********
Yay! I'm glad it's working out.

> once he's eaten what I want him to, do I just take it away?
***********
Sure!

>I notice that Satchel does not lie down and 'hold' his meat with his
>paws to help as he pulls at it. He just stands over it as turns his
>head as he chews.
> Can I help him learn this?
***********
I don't know if you can, but I don't really think you need to. My
Sheltie eats that way, he never uses his paws, and it works out just fine.

-Melissa W

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7.1. File - Other related lists
Posted by: "rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com" rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:25 pm ((PDT))

This list is part of a group of lists run by the same moderation team. Since several of the lists are quite large we often encourage that threads be taken to some of the smaller subject specific lists so you may want to join the lists that cover issues you are interested in now.

The lists are:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oldrawguys/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/catandkittenhealth/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learntoshow/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DogHealth/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dogmentor/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawbreeder/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawPup/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RMBLobby/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canineaggression/

And if you are stuck on a particular issue that you just can't seem to work out, try this list:

http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/rawissues

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BasicRaw/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalFerrets/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawVet/
For vets, vet techs and vet students only

There is also a list of lists where other raw feeding lists can be found. Many are breed specific, location specific or subject specific.

http://www.rawlearning.com

Thanks from the moderation team!

Messages in this topic (114)
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8a. File - Admin-Trim it, Sign it, and Sig lines-PLEASE READ!!!
Posted by: "rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com" rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:25 pm ((PDT))

Hello all! (Don't delete without reading. Yes, there is a test later.)

Firstly, the raw feeding list was established in 1999. It has evolved under a couple of different names, but remains with primarily the same list moderation team.

This primary objective of the list is to provide a place where people who
feed raw food or who want to feed raw can discuss this and closely associated issues.

This is not a list to discuss which kibble or home cooking method is best.
There are other email lists that can provide you with that sort of forum.
The forum here is specifically to discuss appropriate raw diets.

*******A learning environment

We aim at all times to maintain a learning environment.
Every so often someone joins the list with a different agenda.
We work hard in the background to do everything we can to keep discussion on topic at all times, and those who don't find the environment comfortable (about 0.5%), we encourage to join other more suitable email lists.

The most important thing is you join a group you are comfortable with.
We acknowledge the vast differences that exist between people and their learning styles, and as you'll appreciate we can't make everyone happy.

Now for a few of the easy rules:

*******PLEASE TRIM YOUR POSTS

This means when you are replying to an email DO NOT include the ENTIRE EMAIL in your reply.

You can include a SMALL portion of the email you are replying to. Try to stick to a couple of relevant lines.

Delete all headers and footers.

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This means when you are to sign your name at the bottom of every single mail you send to the list.

List members who continue to send unsigned posts after being warned risk having their mail deleted!!

**********CHANGE THE SUBJECT LINE WHEN THE SUBJECT CHANGES
This is a high volume list. Changing subject lines allows people to delete those messages that are topics they have no interest in. IF you change subject lines properly then when responding to a post of the same subject you should not have to include ANY of the email you are responding too since those reading the thread will be able to follow it anyway.

********NO MONSTER SIGNATURES PLEASE!
Several lines are ok but nothing over 4 lines please.
(and please don't advertise in your signatures either)

*********NEW MEMBERS ARE MODERATED.
You will not get OFF of moderate until you prove you can trim your posts and change your subject lines. ALSO the moderators do not have time to trim your posts for you so if a post comes through moderate that is not trimmed it will be sent back to you to trim before it is sent to the list.

If you are currently off of moderate but stop changing subject lines or trimming posts for some reason you will be put back on moderate.

Following these simple rules will make life easier for folks on digest
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Thanks so much.

List Moderators

Messages in this topic (4)
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9a. Re: losing hair
Posted by: "scarebetty" scarebetty@yahoo.com scarebetty
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:03 pm ((PDT))

> I don't see why it couldn't happen to dogs in a similar way.
> Her hormones may still be balancing out to prepregnancy levels,
> especially if she is still nursing the pups.

Yeah, my hair fell out like crazy!! Thought about that with her, but
didnt know if dogs lost their hair after pregnancy.
>
> Why don't you bathe her with a gentle shampoo, massaging her skin,

I will bathe her this afternoon altho she really hates it!!

> You could add more variety to her diet; especially organs like liver,
> kidney, sweet breads, etc. Turkey is easily obtained, and maybe you
> could find some venison or other red meats. Beef or veal heart is a
> great lean red meat to feed, and not expensive. Does she get enough
> edible bone?

I think that she gets plenty of bone-from the chicken quarters, right?
I tried her on beef hearts at first, but it gave her diarrhea when I
gave her very much. But I will try it again. I will get more beef and
come Nov. I will have plenty of venison. I have been giving her beef
kidneys, chicken liver,not too much tho-didnt want to over do it.
>
> A good quality Salmon or Fish Body Oil couldn't hurt, either. Make
> sure it doesn't have any plant based oils or additives.

I have been giving her fish oils for the past few days. Will check on
the ingredients.
Thanks for your help and I will get back to you.
Betty

Messages in this topic (9)
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10a. Re: Buffalo
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:13 pm ((PDT))

>Well, just bear in mind that as long as Palette's poo isn't uncontrollable, there *aren't* any >problems to fix.

Hi,Sandy. So, for example,when I fed hunk of Lamb for the first time, she had slid head with wet end and messed her butt fur. I thought that I needed more bone to it,but did not needed it? It is same thing with rabbit too.When I fed rabbit first day,I saw her poo had solid head with wet end and her butt fur was messed,so,I gave bit bone to it and cut back rabbit portion and made it to combo meal;buffalo and rabbit and desert chicken feet. I did not needed to and just let it be and wet end was fine?? I fixed the watery poo from Lamb tongue the same way;combo meal with more bone.

>I think you mean www.northstarbison.com instead?
Oops,yes,I am sorry.I messed up.Yes,that is where I order buffalo from. It is not $1 per pound category but their meat is real tasty and shipping fee is great so,I ordered them some times. I don't buy in bulk like 30 lbs of meat for that place and that maybe different from you plus I do not have big dog.But,if you had a chance and try it,try that meat and you and Griffin both would love them.

> Bison is definitely on his top-3 favorite foods of all time list.

Yes,palette love Buffalo too. And, she ,for some reason get very jumpy when I feed Angus Beef .She still get excited for Beef not Angus Beef but she definitely likes Angus better for some reasons. I wonder taste different or not. Sometimes,I see sale on Angus Beef and if the package was 3-4 dollars,I pick up and give it to her.She love them.Sometimes,I find London Broil Angus beef 2 dollars so,I pick that up too.

I know one place that sell buffalo meat 2 dollars per pound average.
BUT,I like their meat a lot and like to order long time but,not so much great about business..
This guy has my pending order 1 month now and i keep contacting but no response.I do not think i can rely on him.

His price is real good so,when I first started rawfeeding, I ordred products though his web and when the web lead to paypal page,you think you ordred ok,but he ship stuff (3 times or more without any words to me)and tell me later payment is denied(because he does not want to pay 3% more to paypal) and then he tell me total usually 30 dollars more for each order i have made than the total through web and I had to re-pay with check later.
It shows paypal and credit card ok on his web but,he does not want me to order through his web to order stuff and e-mail/phone to order and he tell me total cost and then I send check later.

However, the last order i have with him, I am on hold for a month!! Luckily,he does not have my money in his hand so, no worry about money but so disappointed. I won't use him anymore I think..Too bad his price and quality of products were good..

You might have liked his products as well. So,I knew the good place to order stuff price-wise before it happened,but unfortunately,I do not think it is good to refer his place to you since bad experience with me..

Umm, other place i have ordered buffalo before northstar bison in WI, I ordered in NH

www.yankeefarmersmarket.stores.yahoo.net

Their buffalo is not as meaty as WI's Buffalo but price wise,probably affordable category.
I think shipping to VA was around 19 dollars or so.I think I ordered less than 20lb if I recall correctly. They carry Elk,Ostrich,Buffalo and Lamb.They are out of Buffalo heart now but the heart is 1.5 dollars per pound.

And you know prey4pets(nicole);KY carry Buffalo too.

yassy

ps:Sorry for my mini rant about my bad experience..

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Messages in this topic (5)
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11. dangers of "home cooked"
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:30 pm ((PDT))

>>It is one thing to prefer processed food...but to claim a more
natural diet is DANGEROUS? Kind of reminds me of the flack women
took 50 years ago (with some doctors) when they wanted to breast
feed human babies. How COULD those silly women think
their "homemade" milk could compete with modern science?!?<<

Lori -- what a great analogy!!! I'll be using this in the future somewhere..... Thanks!!!

-- Anne Moore (M-Tak PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue) in NW Ohio

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12a. constipation ?
Posted by: "outcats4@aol.com" outcats4@aol.com barb5ducks
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:17 pm ((PDT))

My dog will often go 2 days maybe 3 without pooping and I get really
stressed when this happens. I add pulverized organic vegetables to his meat and
pumpkin, but wonder if its that he is getting too much meat ? is this normal
and can i relax, or is something off ?

barb

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Messages in this topic (2)
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12b. Re: constipation ?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:34 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Barb!
This is a normal change, and 'perk' of raw feeding! The raw
meats, bones and organs are so digestible that there is much less
'trash' to be pooped out, and consequently, your dog poops less
frequently, too.

Your dog is not getting *too much meat*, he's getting so much less
indigestible cr*p!

No one *wants* to have to clean up more poop.

Relax!!

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

btw, you could add a little Salmon or Fish Body Oil to his diet, this
can provide a little natural lubrication, if he strains to go. Its
also a great source of Omega 3s, which a lot of dogs could use more of
in their diet.

> My dog will often go 2 days maybe 3 without pooping and I get really
> stressed when this happens. I add pulverized organic vegetables to
his meat and
> pumpkin, but wonder if its that he is getting too much meat ? Is
this normal
> and can I relax, or is something off ?
>
> barb

Messages in this topic (2)
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