[rawfeeding] Digest Number 11859

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Pork Loin
From: Eve
1b. Re: Pork Loin
From: costrowski75
1c. Re: Pork Loin
From: linoleum5017

2.1. Re: ground meat
From: Yasuko herron

3a. Re: constipation ?
From: Yasuko herron
3b. Re: constipation ?
From: outcats4@aol.com
3c. Re: constipation ?
From: Sandee Lee
3d. Re: constipation ?
From: outcats4@aol.com
3e. Re: constipation ?
From: Giselle
3f. Re: constipation ?
From: outcats4@aol.com

4a. Post Parvo Feed; was: Day # 2....still vomiting! )
From: cresco299
4b. Re: Post Parvo Feed; was: Day # 2....still vomiting! )
From: ginny wilken
4c. Re: Post Parvo Feed; was: Day # 2....still vomiting! )
From: costrowski75

5a. Question from a newbie
From: Levi
5b. Re: Question from a newbie
From: Giselle

6a. Re: Rabbit?
From: costrowski75

7a. Re: Newbie to puppy rawfeeding question
From: a.flynn@optusnet.com.au
7b. Re: Newbie to puppy rawfeeding question
From: Giselle

8a. cornish hen vs. chicken
From: Joanne Bartling
8b. Re: cornish hen vs. chicken
From: Giselle

9a. introducing organs
From: antarpremal
9b. Re: introducing organs
From: Giselle

10a. Re: Duck
From: Katie

11a. Re: Upset stomach
From: doreenchui
11b. Re: Upset stomach
From: doreenchui

Messages
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1a. Pork Loin
Posted by: "Eve" loulou_bean@yahoo.com loulou_bean
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:34 pm ((PDT))

So, pork seems to be the most common 2nd meat
people have recommended. Does anyone feed the pork
loin? Our supermarket sells it, and it pretty much
just looks like a huge hunk of meat, no bone. The
other pork they sell looks more like a steak and is on
a bone that looks like it might do some damage to our
pekingese's teeth. Is the loin okay? It seems big
enough that he won't swallow it whole, but there
really is no bone stopping him from doing it. Any
advice would be great. Thanks,
Eve & Dan

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Messages in this topic (7)
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1b. Re: Pork Loin
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:25 pm ((PDT))

Eve <loulou_bean@...> wrote:>
> So, pork seems to be the most common 2nd meat
> people have recommended. Does anyone feed the pork
> loin?
*****
Same critter, possibly leaner, certainly (in my neck o' the woods)
more expensive than shoulder. There's no reason not to feed loin.

Our supermarket sells it, and it pretty much
> just looks like a huge hunk of meat, no bone.
*****
It is exactly that, a hunge hunk of meat with no bone.

Is the loin okay? It seems big
> enough that he won't swallow it whole, but there
> really is no bone stopping him from doing it.
*****
I'm not sure that the loin you've found and the loins I see are the
same thing, since the loin I would buy if I could afford it is QUITE
a large hunk o' meat that a Peke could not swallow without
significant effort. But if you do need to do something to complicate
the hunk, you might try cutting into it to make it all floppy and
awkward.

If you are not feeding bone, you might consider buying one of those
pork shoulder roasts, then whacking off much of the meat for boneless
meals later and giving your dog the remnant meaty bone to wrestle
with. My guess he'll get much of the meat off and maybe gnaw on the
bone without making much headway. The "arm" bone (with the "elbow"
joint) may be somewhat easier for him to bust into; the blade bone (a
flatter thing) will probably be more difficult for him to demolish
but he'll be able to nibble quite happily around the edges.

More work for the dog, a bit of edible bone maybe, savings for you.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (7)
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1c. Re: Pork Loin
Posted by: "linoleum5017" linoleum5017@yahoo.com linoleum5017
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:39 pm ((PDT))

My dog loves the bone-in pork loin - our butcher cuts it in whatever
size hunks I ask, and it's fairly cheap - $1.70/lb. He's got big
teeth, it seems, and can crunch with the big guys. I've not had a
problem with those bones, (yet, anyway.) Does this list 'not'
recommend them? (I can take them away from him, in that case.)

Lynne

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Eve <loulou_bean@...> wrote:
>
> So, pork seems to be the most common 2nd meat
> people have recommended. Does anyone feed the pork
> loin? > Eve & Dan

Messages in this topic (7)
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2.1. Re: ground meat
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:36 pm ((PDT))

>You DON'T need to grind your dogs meat OR bones. Big hunks of meat with bone is what >you need!

Hi,Cheryl. I am sorry if I was confusing you with other post. like Gisell has saying here,all you need is hunk of meat with bone and no need to ground meat.

Waht I meant by other posting;mince the meat waht I already have and mix in Slippery Elm,was that I was asking it get less bacteria that way if we want to give ground meat to dog.Really,no need to ground and no food processor needed.It was just my curious question.Sorry.

I was bit nervous before switching but with this list group members' help,I am able to be relax when my dog eats and you would smile seeing your dog improves in health -wise.

My dog fur is softer,clean breath,some waht more energetic,and knowing you are giving preservative or chemical free meal that you have controll over,you will be glad you did switch your diet to.I am one of them.

Good luck!

yassy

ps;Today,I give fish;Jack Mackerral. She must be jumpy,because she loves mackerral!

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Messages in this topic (38)
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3a. Re: constipation ?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:00 pm ((PDT))

> I add pulverized organic vegetables to his meat and pumpkin,

Hi. Usually,some people(not on this list) use pumpkin to fix diarrhea to make poo solid,and veggies are not that diet dog needs.I learnt that by adding bones,you get your loose poo to solid one and no need to feed pumpkin here.

Why not try giving Egg/liver/more meat.

I am not sure how long since you have switched the diet of your dog and what you are feeding but if you post all you feed here,others can help you more I think.

When you switch the diet,the dog goes poo less;my dog used to go 2-3 times a day when kibble fed,but now,most likely 1 a day in average.

Maybe you are giving too much bone to your dog?

Maybe not much help,but pumpkin and veggies are questionable thing.

I hope others can chime in for this topic and help you out.

Good luck

yassy

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Messages in this topic (8)
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3b. Re: constipation ?
Posted by: "outcats4@aol.com" outcats4@aol.com barb5ducks
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:03 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 7/29/2007 7:41:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
megan.giselle@gmail.com writes:

This is a normal change, and 'perk' of raw feeding!


Then this is normal to not go for 2 to 3 days? Ive been kind of worried, as
he always went twice a day. I thought that what goes in, does come out
whether its raw or commercial?

barb

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Messages in this topic (8)
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3c. Re: constipation ?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:06 pm ((PDT))

Barb,

What exactly are you feeding?

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <outcats4@aol.com>

> My dog will often go 2 days maybe 3 without pooping and I get really
> stressed when this happens. I add pulverized organic vegetables to his
meat and
> pumpkin, but wonder if its that he is getting too much meat ? is this
normal
> and can i relax, or is something off ?

Messages in this topic (8)
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3d. Re: constipation ?
Posted by: "outcats4@aol.com" outcats4@aol.com barb5ducks
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:56 pm ((PDT))

Im feeding a combination of meats but not altogether, sometimes pork, beef,
lamb, chicken, turkey, ground beef, all raw,
then I'll add to what ever meat I have chicken gizzards or beef heart and
sometimes chicken liver

3-4 x a week I add a raw egg

SOmtimes I add cottage cheese, and I usually always add mixed organic veggie
pulp. I add some blueberries or pumpkin or apple on occasion.

I give chicken necks a few times a week and knuckle bone 2 x a month.

I dont feed bone with above meats, but add in eggshell.

I was supplementing with Addlife on occasion, but have just bought animal
essential green alternatives. I also add fish oil or cod liver oil 4-5 x a
week.

thanks for your help,
barb

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Messages in this topic (8)
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3e. Re: constipation ?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:27 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Barb!
You're adding, working and spending, a lot more than you need to!

Leave out the cottage cheese, ALL the veggies and fruits, and ALL the
supplements, including the cod liver oil.

Dogs are carnivores, not omnivores. They have no need of plant
materials. They evolved to eat the critters that eat the plants, yeah?

The fish oil is good, unless it has plant based oils added to it. Feed
a good quality Salmon or Fish Body oil, with no additions.

Ditch the ground meats, you want to feed chunks of meat with edible
bones in them. Whole chickens, whole fish, pork shoulder roasts or
picnic hams, whole turkeys, beef/veal heart, beef roasts, lamb roasts
and breasts/ribs, etc.

Dogs need the physical and dental activity provided by whole prey, or
at the least, large hunks of prey animals.

Eggs are ok. Eggshells, don't matter so much. Organs are important.
Heart and gizzards should be fed as muscle meat, not organ. To the
liver, add kidneys, sweet breads, spleen, as much variety of organs as
you can afford and find, in small amounts.

Ditch the knuckle bones - these are tooth wreckers! You want to feed
MEATY bones, softer bones that your dog can consume, entirely or
mostly. Bones from cows are much too hard and dense. Unless your dogs
are careful chewers, or tiny, chicken necks are too small to feed
unless attached to a whole chicken.

Feeding more in line with what your dog has evolved to thrive on will
produce less frequent, smaller poops. When you feed a lot of stuff a
dog wasn't meant to eat, it goes to waste and there is a large volume
of poops as a result.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> I'm feeding a combination of meats but not altogether, sometimes
pork, beef,
> lamb, chicken, turkey, ground beef, all raw,
> then I'll add to what ever meat I have chicken gizzards or beef
heart and
> sometimes chicken liver
>
> 3-4 x a week I add a raw egg
>
> Sometimes I add cottage cheese, and I usually always add mixed
organic veggie
> pulp. I add some blueberries or pumpkin or apple on occasion.
>
> I give chicken necks a few times a week and knuckle bone 2 x a month.
>
> I don't feed bone with above meats, but add in eggshell.
>
> I was supplementing with Add life on occasion, but have just bought
animal
> essential green alternatives. I also add fish oil or cod liver oil
4-5 x a
> week.
>
> thanks for your help,
> barb

Messages in this topic (8)
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3f. Re: constipation ?
Posted by: "outcats4@aol.com" outcats4@aol.com barb5ducks
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:08 pm ((PDT))

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In a message dated 7/29/2007 9:27:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
megan.giselle@gmail.com writes:

You're adding, working and spending, a lot more than you need to!

i was feeding the Volhard diet, but slowly stopped adding the grains. He
wasnt doing too well on that diet, and I was afraid of bone meal, so I didnt
add that.

Im still afraid of some bones - He's a fairly large dog, a malinois
/greyhound mix, and he seems to have no problem eating bones, its just me getting
over my fear of it. I get worried every time i feed chicken legs or lamb bones,
so i havent been feeding the meat with the bones. i

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Messages in this topic (8)
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4a. Post Parvo Feed; was: Day # 2....still vomiting! )
Posted by: "cresco299" gentry.jeffrey@yahoo.com cresco299
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:02 pm ((PDT))

I'm glad to announce that Sassy (3yr old lab/springer spaniel) has
joyfully rejoined my "pack". We were allowed to pick her up this
afternoon. She's a little skittish but is happily sprawled out on the
living room floor sleeping.

The vet was indifferent about a raw diet and said she could resume her
normal eating regime tomorrow morning. But to be on the "safe" side, I
should try cooked chicken and rice for a few days. As you've all
taught me the basic fact that vets are outstanding doctors but lousy
nutritionists, my question is this.

With all the damage that her intestinal tract has endured, is it safe
to re-introduce raw at this point or should I play it safe. I know
cooked chicken and rice has next to zero nutrition for her but I can't
help but wonder if her guts may not be in a condition to accept the
bacteria that comes standard in raw foods.

Any thoughts?

Jeff and Sassy

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: Post Parvo Feed; was: Day # 2....still vomiting! )
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:14 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 29, 2007, at 4:37 PM, cresco299 wrote:

> ....
> With all the damage that her intestinal tract has endured, is it safe
> to re-introduce raw at this point or should I play it safe. I know
> cooked chicken and rice has next to zero nutrition for her but I can't
> help but wonder if her guts may not be in a condition to accept the
> bacteria that comes standard in raw foods.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Jeff and Sassy

Yep, it's wonderful that she's back home! Now then, cooked food,
especially grain, is much harder on the system than raw, harder to
digest, and irritating besides. I'd go with something like boneless
raw chicken breast, or plain meat, for a day or two, and keep meals
small and frequent for a while.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (3)
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4c. Re: Post Parvo Feed; was: Day # 2....still vomiting! )
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:37 pm ((PDT))

"cresco299" <gentry.jeffrey@...> wrote:
>But to be on the "safe" side, I
> should try cooked chicken and rice for a few days. As you've all
> taught me the basic fact that vets are outstanding doctors but lousy
> nutritionists, my question is this.
>
> With all the damage that her intestinal tract has endured, is it safe
> to re-introduce raw at this point or should I play it safe. I know
> cooked chicken and rice has next to zero nutrition for her but I can't
> help but wonder if her guts may not be in a condition to accept the
> bacteria that comes standard in raw foods.
*****
My, what a great recovery! Congratulations.

Cooked meat is not easier to digest and there's no reason to feed any
dog--recovering or status quo--rice. People do, doesn't mean they
should. What bacteria comes standard in raw meats that isn't in life
as we know it? You want to diminish surface bacteria, skip ground
meat. You might want to give her a probiotic to help rebuild the good
bacteria that the antibiotics has destroyed. Give it away from the
ABX.

I'd go with bland, boring, boneless and beige meat, myself. Skinless
boneless chicken breast, boneless white fish, maybe some very lean pork
(yes there is such a thing) if you want to branch out. Otherwise,
chicken ala chicken would be fine.

Hooray for Sassy!
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Question from a newbie
Posted by: "Levi" carebearssparky@comcast.net nairam_1977
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:02 pm ((PDT))

Hi,

I'm in the beginning process of switching my pup to raw. He is an 8
month old lab/husky, who is probably about 65-70 pounds now (he was 55
pounds when he was neutered at 5 months). I was wondering about how
much meat I would need to feed him? Right now I'm just giving him his
kibble and raw bones to chew (big ones, just for the outside and
marrow and entertainment) and occasionally a raw egg.

Thanks,
Levi

Messages in this topic (8)
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5b. Re: Question from a newbie
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:09 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Levi!
Welcome to the raw side!! ; )

OK. Since you're new, I'm gonna answer your Qs and give you the spiel
at the same time. : ) Or enough of it to get you started, anyway.

This list supports the feeding of a species appropriate whole prey
model diet. Dogs are wolves, except for their outer appearance. Wolves
are carnivores. They can survive on plant materials in hard times, but
their optimum food is on the hoof.

What that means for everyday is that you feed whole prey animals,
skin, fur, heads, bones, organs, all included, if you can. If you
can't, you feed large parts of a variety of animals; such as chicken,
turkey, rabbit, pork, beef, lamb, fish, goat, venison, et al. Eggs are
good.

The newbie 'rule of thumb' is to feed 2-3% of your dog's expected
adult weight. This is only a guideline - some pups do better on more,
some less. Small/tiny and very active dogs tend to need 4-5%, some
large/giant breeds of dogs need only 1-2%. Sometimes you need to
adjust almost daily, pups get growth spurts where their needs change
rapidly.

Most pups/dogs go through a period where the kibble fluffiness comes
off, and they appear leaner, but are actually heavier.

I suspect your pup may have exceeded his optimum expected adult weight
by now, unless he is a LOT larger than the average Labrador or Husky.
I averaged out the high and low weights given in the standard for each
breed, and came up with 62.5 lbs. YMMV

If you are feeding your dog 'recreational' bones; beef femur or
'marrow' bones, STOP right now! Cow bones are very hard and dense,
look at what they have to hold up! These bones will wear a dog's teeth
down or break them. If you are feeding prey animals or big parts with
mostly edible bones, your dog will have no need of 'rec' bones. He
will get all the physical and dental activity he needs from engaging
with his food.

So, to get started;
Drop the kibble off at the local shelter on your way to the supermarket!
At the market, buy a bunch of whole chickens.
Cut them in half, slide them in a freezer bag and freeze most of them.
Feed your dog half a chicken once or twice a day.
Toss in the heart, gizzards and liver a bit at a time, or reserve as
treats.
Wa-la! You are feeding raw!

TC and let us know how you progress!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Hi,
>
> I'm in the beginning process of switching my pup to raw. He is an 8
> month old lab/husky, who is probably about 65-70 pounds now (he was 55
> pounds when he was neutered at 5 months). I was wondering about how
> much meat I would need to feed him? Right now I'm just giving him his
> kibble and raw bones to chew (big ones, just for the outside and
> marrow and entertainment) and occasionally a raw egg.
>
> Thanks,
> Levi
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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6a. Re: Rabbit?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:09 pm ((PDT))

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
It is more interesting if you think about fish. Some fish is white
meat like flounder and some is quite red like Tuna and some is pinky
like snapper,and some are orange like Salmon.
> I wonder if that all relating to how much they swim ?? Just curious
thoughts.
*****
I am clueless. I am not that up on fish. You could maybe find out,
let us know?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (22)
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7a. Re: Newbie to puppy rawfeeding question
Posted by: "a.flynn@optusnet.com.au" a.flynn@optusnet.com.au flynn_nn
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:25 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Pamela for that address.

Can anyone give me some feedback on my other questions?

I know they probably seem like silly questions but I am wondering.

He did the refusing his breakfast...then going out to eat grass thing again this morning. He is quite reluctant about the raw food, but it is all I will give him so I am worried about whether he is getting enough to grow properly. When over at my neighbours to let him play with her dog he found a couple of bits of kibble and ate them like he hadn't eaten for a week. (And didn't he have some smelly gas to prove it!!??)

He was on kibble when I got him. I feel he is just eating enough on his raw diet, but he is often reluctant. Being used to lab types who will eat whatever they are given with relish, I am finding this little pups sniffing at his food and walking off very frustrating. I am trying to be relaxed about it, but he is quite lean. Is the tactic of letting him go hungry (by just taking away his food when he refuses it and offering it next meal) to make him keener to eat, safe to do with a 12 week old pup?

Thanks, ann.

> pet.wellness <pet.wellness@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, a.flynn@... wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Also he is due for worming and vaccinating. I am wanting to do more
> reading on these topics and i can't find the links that i saw someone
> post on these topics. So if someone could kindly post those again it
> would be much appreciated.
> >
> > Ann.
>
> ***
>
> Here's a place to start
>
> TruthAboutVaccines · TheTruthAboutVaccines
>
> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/TruthAboutVaccines/
>
> Pamela Picard
> www.pet-wellness-update.com

Messages in this topic (4)
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7b. Re: Newbie to puppy rawfeeding question
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:04 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Ann!
Is there any possibility that you are just not used to the
amounts a tiny puppy can eat?
I remember when I brought my first Schipperke pup home (pre-raw). I'd
only had Newfoundlands prior to that. lol I thought the pup was going
to STARVE to death! I had to readjust my mind to accept that TINY dogs
ate TINY amounts!

If you are giving him large amounts (for him) at one feeding, it is
entirely possible that he may be too full to eat when the next
mealtime rolls around.

You could cut back on the quantity you feed at each meal, to get in
his three-meals-a-day; or just let him continue to eat his fill at a
meal, and refuse the next if he wants to. I'd keep offering at regular
mealtimes, just don't get upset if he doesn't eat then.

Dogs eat grass, I think there are as many reasons why they eat grass
as there are dogs. *shrugs* My best guess is; because they can.

Just because he pounces on a bit of kibble on the floor, I wouldn't
assume he is hungry. Dogs are opportunists, they will eat anything,
edible or not, good for them or not, if it comes their way.

I missed if you said exactly what you are feeding. What *are you feeding?

Being he's a pup, you can pretty much move as fast as you'd like,
adding new proteins and organs to his repertoire. I'd buy small
amounts of several different proteins; game hen, rabbit, pork,
beef/veal, fish, heart, gizzards, etc. and so forth, and introduce a
new one every few days, unless he develops true diarrhea. Then, I'd
back off to the last few proteins fed for awhile. Add organs, too;
liver and kidney and whatever organs you can find, in teensy amounts
to his meals.

You're bound to find that he prefers some meats over others, and those
he will eat more readily.

You haven't mentioned how you are giving him his meals. Are you giving
him a big chunk of meat with some bone that he needs to wrestle with,
to engage his body and mind?

Is he having trouble figuring out that its food you are serving him?
There are things you can do, like lightly searing his meat before
giving it to him or smearing smelly fish oil on it, or
slicing/ribboning the meat; to entice him to chow down.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Can anyone give me some feedback on my other questions?
>
> I know they probably seem like silly questions but I am wondering.
>
> He did the refusing his breakfast...then going out to eat grass
thing again this morning. He is quite reluctant about the raw food,
but it is all I will give him so I am worried about whether he is
getting enough to grow properly. When over at my neighbours to let him
play with her dog he found a couple of bits of kibble and ate them
like he hadn't eaten for a week. (And didn't he have some smelly gas
to prove it!!??)
>
> He was on kibble when I got him. I feel he is just eating enough on
his raw diet, but he is often reluctant. Being used to lab types who
will eat whatever they are given with relish, I am finding this little
pups sniffing at his food and walking off very frustrating. I am
trying to be relaxed about it, but he is quite lean. Is the tactic of
letting him go hungry (by just taking away his food when he refuses it
and offering it next meal) to make him keener to eat, safe to do with
a 12 week old pup?
>
> Thanks, ann.

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. cornish hen vs. chicken
Posted by: "Joanne Bartling" hjbartling@comcast.net hjbartling
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:40 pm ((PDT))

Someone wrote: I am reserving Duck and cornish hen for elimination diet if
or when palette needed such diet.

I thought Cornish hen was chicken. Isn't it?

Joanne

http://www.pbase.com/hjbartling

http://hjbartling.dotphoto.com

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Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: cornish hen vs. chicken
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:32 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Joanne!
Yup!
Just a little younger.
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

> Someone wrote: I am reserving Duck and cornish hen for elimination
diet if
> or when palette needed such diet.
>

> I thought Cornish hen was chicken. Isn't it?
>

> Joanne
>
> http://www.pbase.com/hjbartling
>
> http://hjbartling.dotphoto.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. introducing organs
Posted by: "antarpremal" antarpremal@yahoo.com antarpremal
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:06 pm ((PDT))

Hi Everyone!
This is Jennifer (and Sasha). Who is now 5 months old (Golden mix) I started her on
raw with the help of this list a couple of months ago. So far she is doing very well. I have
been giving chicken and beef liver for a while but now started to introduce veal kidney
since I was able to find it. Also have some heart but haven't tried that yet.

So far I fed a bit of kidney cut up and put into some ground buffalo. She would not
touch it on it's own. (I have to give her the liver frozen as treats as she also does not like
the texture.) She seemed fine with it.

So now what? It was frozen and I defrosted it to cut it and refroze the rest. Is this a
bad idea for dogs as it is for people? How often should I give small amounts, and I have no
idea what to do with those two big frozen hearts in my freezer!

A note to Giselle.

I am also in New Jersey and looking for purveyors. Right now I am still shopping mostly
in the supermarkets. I'd love find someone that supplies more natural stuff.....cage free
etc, and wild game. I was able to find elk at the store but horribly expensive.

And what about fish. These days I am very uncertain of the safety of eating fish myself
and feeding it to my son who is 2. I try to stick to whatever is small. Other than wild
salmon any recomendations out there? We mostly eat Tilapia these days but still it is farm
raised and I don't know if that is good or not.

Thanks so much!
Jennifer

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: introducing organs
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:36 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Jennifer!
Sounds like you all are doing well!
It doesn't hurt to thaw and refreeze meat for dogs. It changes the
flavor for people, dogs don't care. And meat thats a 'little old'
won't hurt your dog. Their digestion is different from ours.

Once or twice a week for different kinds of organs sounds good to me.
Thats what I do. A little more or less often isn't critical.

Partially thaw the heart and cut into portion sized pieces. Slide into
plastic freezer bags and refreeze everything but what you're going to
feed in a couple days. You can feed as a boneless meal, or feed with a
mostly bony bone - like whole pork neck bones.

When I buy, I buy enough for a couple months. So, while I'm packaging
everything for the freezer, I put meatymeat with bonierbones to make a
meal in the same bag. Or, I just put enough of something for a meal in
one bag, and mix/match later.

My market will cut any meat to order - ask yours to cut the heart in
meal sized pieces next time you buy it. Ask them not to trim off the
cap fat and other stuff, its all good for the dog.

You could try searing the liver or kidney in a very hot pan to entice
Sasha to eat it.

I still shop at that rural market I'd mentioned before - no co-ops
near me that I could find, and online stuff is too spendy. I live in a
county that is a tourist destination and is rapidly becoming a
'bedroom community' for Atlantic City casino workers. So, land is
being bought up and built on for housing and businesses and small
farmers are becoming a thing of the past. And prices are rising all
the time.

I don't feed much fish. Even tho' I'm close to the fishing
communities, fish is expensive here. There are sites where you can go
to check what fishes and seafood are good to eat/feed. This is one I
can remember the url to;

http://www.oceansalive.org/eat.cfm?subnav=bestandworst&link=hp
Maybe someone else can post the links to others.

TC, Jennifer, so glad to hear how you're doing!
Giselle
with Bea in Cape May County

> Hi Everyone!
> This is Jennifer (and Sasha). Who is now 5 months old (Golden
mix) I started her on
> raw with the help of this list a couple of months ago. So far she is
doing very well. I have
> been giving chicken and beef liver for a while but now started to
introduce veal kidney
> since I was able to find it. Also have some heart but haven't tried
that yet.
>
> So far I fed a bit of kidney cut up and put into some ground
buffalo. She would not
> touch it on it's own. (I have to give her the liver frozen as treats
as she also does not like
> the texture.) She seemed fine with it.
>
> So now what? It was frozen and I defrosted it to cut it and
refroze the rest. Is this a
> bad idea for dogs as it is for people? How often should I give small
amounts, and I have no
> idea what to do with those two big frozen hearts in my freezer!
>
> A note to Giselle.
>
> I am also in New Jersey and looking for purveyors. Right now I
am still shopping mostly
> in the supermarkets. I'd love find someone that supplies more
natural stuff.....cage free
> etc, and wild game. I was able to find elk at the store but horribly
expensive.
>
> And what about fish. These days I am very uncertain of the safety
of eating fish myself
> and feeding it to my son who is 2. I try to stick to whatever is
small. Other than wild
> salmon any recommendations out there? We mostly eat Tilapia these
days but still it is farm
> raised and I don't know if that is good or not.
>
> Thanks so much!
> Jennifer
>

Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Re: Duck
Posted by: "Katie" kcrockett@mac.com kcrockettla7
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:13 pm ((PDT))

i'm reposting in the hope that someone will ahve some words of wisdom to share?

>>>katie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Katie" <kcrockett@...> wrote:
>
> How long did it take for the symtoms to go away?
>
> i have goldens with allergies . . . their "allergy testing" showed that clancy is allergic to
lamb,
> duck, some kind of fish (don't remember which) and tonka is allergic to venison and
poultry
> (didn't specify - just said "poultry mix".
>
> I'd been told that they may not be allergic to those foods in raw form, so we've been
> experimenting a little. i tried pork last week, and clancy immediately started itching like
> crazy. i retreated back to giving him chicken . . . but am wondering how long he'll itch
ofr!
>
> ...katie
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "chele519" <chele519@> wrote:
> >
> > When I started raw i did an elimination diet. Chicken made her ears
> > beet red and extremely itchy within 30 minutes. I went back to pork
> > and waited til the symptoms went away and tried beef and then turkey.
> > Each of those took a few days for symptoms to start and they weren't
> > as bad as with the chicken but still obvious.
>

Messages in this topic (17)
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11a. Re: Upset stomach
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:41 pm ((PDT))

***TRIMMED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM AND SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.***

I live in Singapore. We do not have turkey here except for the
Christmas season. No rabbit meat here at all. We only have pig and
chicken organs here. I do feed fish once in a while, seabass or
grouper. Will try cod fish soon.Venision is very hard to come by and
I happen to chance upon it just few days ago in a wholesale factory
outlet. I paid frozen venison for USD 29 per kg. Frozen beef is USD
10 , frozen goat(whole leg) is USD15. Chilled beef is USD 22. All
these are from wholesaler and if you buy it from supermarket, it's
probable 2 1/2 times more.
I'm not worried about the kibble as he's totally not interested.
Yes, i packed all the meat in meal sized portions. I used to feed
him 2 days this and 2 days that but I read somewhere that it's
better to feed one kind for a week and then switch.
He prefers boneless meat. i tried many a times to give him chiken
necks and backs but he simply refuse it after a couple of bites.
Then at next meal time, he will go into hiding.
I have just started giving digestive enzymes, yesterday in fact,
after the meal. Perhaps, I should try giving it before his meal.
He had chicken after his fasting day and this morning, I tried
giving him chicken again this morning and he had refused.
His eating habits differ now and then. I am now writing about his
present eating habits. Sometimes, he eats so well that I jump for
joy and I start shouting to the whole wide world about it. believe
me, my furkids means the whole world to me. They are my only family
members.
For your info, my whippet came to me when he was 15 months old. he's
now 2 yrs old. My schnauzer have been with me when he was 3 mths old.

Messages in this topic (7)
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11b. Re: Upset stomach
Posted by: "doreenchui" doreenchui@yeos.com doreenchui
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:53 pm ((PDT))

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: TRIM YOUR MESSAGES***

Hi Sandy
My whippet starting taking raw in the morning since 2 months ago.
Just meat, chicken, beef, mutton/lamb. Fish, once in a while, as
treats, never as the ain meal. I tried giving with bones(chicken)
but he does not like it. I am trying to get him eating raw boneless
meat first, get his stomach right and slowly introduce other things.
I started full raw recently, meaning no Abady. With chicken(he does
not like it) and beef, his stools are alright but not with
mutton/lamb, it tends to be loose. For each new protein, I start
with 50gms.
Doreen
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Oh, I'm sorry. Somehow I missed that these were two different
dogs you were
> switching!
>
> So...how long has he been eating raw? A few days ago you said he
was
> getting raw in the morning and Abady at night...so did you just
quit the dry
> food in the past few days? When you say he is on full raw now,
what does
> that mean? What exactly are you feeding?
> Mostly beef would mean mainly meat, no bone....is that right???
>
> Sandee & the Dane Gang
>
> From: "doreenchui" <doreenchui@...>
>
>
> -The whippet is on full raw now. He younger, only 2, easily to
> switch. As for the 'senior' schnauzer, I am switching slowly.
> Doreen
> -- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@> wrote:
> >
> > Doreen,
> >
> > You said in previous messages that you have been feeding Nature's
> Variety
> > and Abady. It's no wonder his system is screwed up.
> >
> > From: "doreenchui" <doreenchui@>
> >
> >
> > I noticed that my whippet will have a upset stomach after about
> eight
> > days of feeding raw. He will have running stool for a day or
two. I
> > will normally refrain from feeding him on these days. His diet
> consist
> > of mainly beef. I wonder is it too 'hot' for his system and
> therefore
> > have running stools.
> > When I first started him on raw, it was chicken then beef, then
> > lamb/mutton.
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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