[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12415

There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: dry nose
From: Casey Post
1b. Re: dry nose
From: spricketysprock

2a. Re: fed cooked tonight
From: Casey Post
2b. Re: fed cooked tonight
From: jmwise80
2c. Re: fed cooked tonight
From: Bumble1994@aol.com

3a. Re: Raw and tear stains
From: Casey Post
3b. Re: Raw and tear stains
From: spricketysprock
3c. Re: Raw and tear stains
From: Heather

4a. Diet Critique
From: Tracy Touzjian
4b. Re: Diet Critique
From: katkellm

5a. Re: Whole chickens
From: Laurie Swanson

6. Thanks and Greetings of the Season
From: Eddie Scholten

7a. Fish question
From: tizianaruff

8a. Diarrhea in a raw fed dog--help!
From: nancymccarel
8b. Re: Diarrhea in a raw fed dog--help!
From: Morledzep@aol.com
8c. Re: Diarrhea in a raw fed dog--help!
From: katkellm

Messages
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1a. Re: dry nose
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:11 pm ((PST))

>>But he's getting less liver and no salmon. I guess it must be one of
these. Liver has a lot of vitamin A, so if the diagnosis was correct that
could be it. (He was getting about 1/3 of a pound of liver daily before,
which is just over 10% of his diet, double the amount recommended here.) On
the other hand salmon has a lot of oil/fat that could have been helping to
"moisturize" his nose.

Salmon oil contains omega 3 fatty acids, which are necessary for skin health
(among other things). Feeding excessive liver for extended periods of time
would concern me because vitamins A and D are fat soluble and can build up
to unhealthy levels...

>What would you recommend as the next step for my dog???

First, I would rule out real health issues like discoid lupus. I'd also
start supplementing with salmon or fish body (not cod liver) oil to see if
it helps his nose.

I certainly wouldn't continue supplementing liver at high levels, but rather
would go back to the recommended 3-5% of the overall diet. I'm not really
buying the vet's vitamin A deficiency diagnosis, myself.

Casey

Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: dry nose
Posted by: "spricketysprock" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:32 pm ((PST))

Interesting. My dog also had a dry nose both pre and post raw. It was
the top, very dry and crumbly. The temperature might affect it or it
could be fat/moisture content in the diet... I recently noticed a huge
improvement, it is still discolored by very soft, fuzzy and normal
feeling, and coincides with my supplementing fish oil pills. So,
perhaps it was the salmon that helped your dog? I also have been
feeding him meals with more fat (duck, pork) so that could have
something to do with it. It's hard to say, and is often trial and
error with these things.

Jess & Toby

Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: fed cooked tonight
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:12 pm ((PST))

> Not really. A little squirrel got somewhere on the power lines he
> shouldn't have. Turbo has refused whole prey up until tonight. Not
> sure if it was the singe or if he just felt like eating tonight. Don't
> really care either. Sorry to waste ya'lls time, but I had to tell
> somebody. I can't quit smilin'.

Michael,

Well, it was bad for the squirrel, but good for Turbo! Way to turn a
negative into a positive!

Casey

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: fed cooked tonight
Posted by: "jmwise80" jmwise80@yahoo.com jmwise80
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:30 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Casey Post" <mikken@...> wrote:
>> Michael,
>
> Well, it was bad for the squirrel, but good for Turbo! Way to turn a
> negative into a positive!
>
> Casey
>

**********Waste not, want not.

Michael Wise

Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: fed cooked tonight
Posted by: "Bumble1994@aol.com" Bumble1994@aol.com bumble1994
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:33 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 12/23/2007 10:05:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
"jmwise80" writes:

Sorry to waste ya'lls time, but I had to tell
somebody. I can't quit smilin'.

****
Hehehe! Not wasting our time. Who else would understand!?!

Lynda

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Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Raw and tear stains
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:18 pm ((PST))

> I am troubled that since we got her, and began feeding her raw, she
> has developed tear stains.

Brenda,

Increased tearing isn't that unusual with a switch to whole foods because
eating now involves all the muscles of the face...

I'd just keep her eyes clean and leave it be for now. Once she's been on
raw for longer, you're likely to see the issue disappear, I'd bet. Those
muscles will build up and develop properly and the tearing should stop.

I will add one caveat - my neighbor's dog had a LOT of tearing when he was
first switched. Watching him eat, I realized something wasn't right - the
tearing was accompanying working way harder at his food than he should
have...long story short, turns out he had a very bad tooth that no one knew
about and it was causing him pain. But he was a Lab and he was going to eat
through the pain, because that's what they do. We got the tooth out and he
ate just fine after that without tearing or struggle. So if there's a lot
of tearing and there's the possibility of a bad tooth, have it checked out.

Casey

Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Re: Raw and tear stains
Posted by: "spricketysprock" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:32 pm ((PST))

That's very interesting; I've noticed the same thing with my dog,
though I'm not sure if it's from raw or not. He never used to have
tear stains pre-raw, whereas it's now a regular occurance. Any ideas?

Jess & Toby

Messages in this topic (5)
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3c. Re: Raw and tear stains
Posted by: "Heather" newbeginnings06@gmail.com malignstar
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:33 pm ((PST))

Tear stains are actually caused by a bacteria. Do you feed her out of
anything plastic? It's a perfect breeding ground for the bacteria.
Always use lead free ceramic or stainless steel bowls, and put them in
the dishwaser so the hot water disinfects them well. Purified drinking
water can also help.

Heather

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Diet Critique
Posted by: "Tracy Touzjian" imcalvinsmom@yahoo.com imcalvinsmom
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:15 pm ((PST))

Hi All,

I'm a RAW feeder newbie. I was hoping someone could take a look at
what I've started feeding and give me some feedback.

Truman is a 1.5 year old Boerboel. He weighs in at about 125 lbs.
He is a bit underweight due to some recent illnesses (he had
testicular torsion and a bout of sarcoptic mange). I'd like to see
him in the 135-140 lb range.

Right now I am feeding RAW in the a.m. and kibble in the p.m.. As
soon as I can convince hubby that this is cost effective and it will
also save on vet bills in the future, I will go totally RAW. He
thinks the dog is eating bettter than we are! Ha Ha.

Here is a sample of what I'm feeding him....

Morning:
1 lb chicken leg quarter (with some back), approx 3/4 lb turkey
neck, and some chicken liver.

Evening:
1/2 of the daily recommended amount of Canidae kibble with 1/4 cup of
yougurt, Grizzly salmon oil and Ester C.

How am I doing? Any suggestions?

Thank you so much for any imput you can offer,

Tracy Touzjian

Messages in this topic (2)
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4b. Re: Diet Critique
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:05 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Tracy Touzjian" <imcalvinsmom@...>
wrote:
> Morning:
> 1 lb chicken leg quarter (with some back), approx 3/4 lb turkey
> neck, and some chicken liver.
>
> Evening:
> 1/2 of the daily recommended amount of Canidae kibble with 1/4 cup of
> yougurt, Grizzly salmon oil and Ester C.

Hi Tracy,
Since i have one of them, too, a dh that is, i won't give you the you
need to ditch the kibble speech. Tell Santa that all you want for
Christmas is to feed a raw diet. :) Anyway, my suggestions,
seriously, other than to drop the kibble, especially since you are
feeding an expensive kibble the cost of going all raw honestly and
truthfully shouldn't be more, it could actually be less, would be to
replace the turkey necks with a meaty meat, think hunk of pork of
lamb or beef, in the morning and not feed any yogurt at all. KathyM

Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: Whole chickens
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:37 pm ((PST))

Or let them eat however much of the chicken you want them to have and
then put it back in the frig/freezer and feed the remainder later.
That would minimize the cutting and ensure you are feeding big enough
pieces that are engaging and not choking hazards.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Sherrel Leininger <meawolf50@...>
wrote:
> *****I guess I need to cut the chickens up. Cut the chickens up into
pieces because I feed twice a day.

Messages in this topic (9)
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6. Thanks and Greetings of the Season
Posted by: "Eddie Scholten" shirl-ed@hotmail.com shirley11964
Date: Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:30 am ((PST))

Hello all,

Just a short 'Thank you' to everybody who posts information to this list.

I love that I have access to a virtual library of information on raw-feeding, tons of mishap-guidance and all manner of experience to learn from (without having to have the said experience first hand).

It's truly heart-warming to know that our GR puppy, Floris, is so healthy and happy and ejoying life (and growing at a rate which seems amazing to me, but I have no experience with pups' weights or this breed). We got him at 8 weeks, and have raw fed since then. Now at 13 weeks he weighs in at 10.2 kilograms, and looking at him, it appears that he's lean and muscular, really solid (I can't see anything I'd call 'puppy fat' on him, maybe that's normal at his age?). He smells fresh, has decent poo and relishes, with great gusto, his RMB's.

Anyway, I'm rambling...but just wanted to express how very grateful we are to this list.

Wishing all of you the very best for the season and hoping you all get what you hope for, and that all your beloved pets are happy and healthy too.

Shirley, Ed, Connor & Floris.
(The Netherlands)


_________________________________________________________________
Download Messenger op je mobiel!
http://www.windowslivemobile.msn.com/nl/

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Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. Fish question
Posted by: "tizianaruff" queentiz@msn.com tizianaruff
Date: Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:30 am ((PST))

I want to feed my younger Weimaraner 10 months old fish. He is been on
the raw food diet since he was 5 months. He does very well with all
chicken, turkey, veal, organs, I feed him even raw egg and some beef
and pig's feet, I even gave him a couple of scallops. I bought blue
trout the other day. Since he was suffering from allergies (hence the
raw food diet), first of all can I give him the blue trout and should I
give him the whole thing?(he is 89 pound).

Also if you can please help me. I am having a hard time figuring out
the math on how much to feed my Yorkie. They are older, both 8 years
old. One weigh 2.2 pounds, the other 5 pound. If i am doing the math
correctly the smaller should get less than 1/2 ounce? That seem so
little. He is the perfect weight for his size.

Than you guys and let me take this opportunity to wish you all a very
Merry Christmas and a happy New year especially the MODERATOR, thank
you!!

Tiziana

Messages in this topic (11)
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8a. Diarrhea in a raw fed dog--help!
Posted by: "nancymccarel" nancytmcc@aol.com nancymccarel
Date: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:05 am ((PST))

Hello everyone--I am sure this question has been asked a million
billion times, sorry for the repetition. I have been raw feeding my
dogs for over two years and they are doing really well.
Unfortunately, my Labrador has recently developed a nasty case of
diarrhea (liquid stools, not just soft). There has been no change in
her diet, I am not sure why this developed. I know that it is not
recommended to give pumpkin or metamucil as these are just bandaids,
and I do have a call into my homeopathic vet to figure out a remedy to
try. But I am not sure what to feed in the meantime. I fasted her
for 24 hours, then yesterday I reintroduced some raw boneless turkey
and raw turkey heart (a smaller amount than I usually feed her).
Stools yesterday were soft but formed and I thought we were coming out
of the woods. Today I fed a raw turkey thigh with bone and right
afterwards she was back to watery stool. Did I go back to regular food
too quickly? Should I fast her again? Go back to boneless meat? We
are also travelling for the holiday, which should make this ever so
much more joyful.....
thanks for the help,
Nancy

Messages in this topic (3)
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8b. Re: Diarrhea in a raw fed dog--help!
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:55 am ((PST))

In a message dated 12/24/2007 5:05:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
nancytmcc@aol.com writes:

Today I fed a raw turkey thigh with bone and right
afterwards she was back to watery stool. Did I go back to regular food
too quickly? Should I fast her again? Go back to boneless meat? We
are also travelling for the holiday, which should make this ever so
much more joyful.....

Nancy,

i would fast her again (only for 1 day, then feed very small for a few days),
but feeding only boneless meat will cause looser stools. you want to feed
bonier meals when they have loose stools. I would make sure the turkey you're
feeding isn't enhanced, first.

OR change what she's eating totally, go to chicken, again making sure it's
not enhanced. the bone to meat ratio is higher in chicken than in just about
anything else we feed. Pork ribs are another high bone meal that MAY help.

I'm betting the cause of the loose stools is stress.. when we travel a couple
of my dogs won't poop for the first few days and then they just can't stop.
And others just lose their bowels all together when they are under any kind of
stress.

I also have a dog that is sensitive to different kinds of water. A change in
the water source ALWAYS causes a bowel change. When we take her with us we
always bring 5 gals of filtered water from home and we never leave for more
than a couple days.

hope this helps,
Catherine R.

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Messages in this topic (3)
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8c. Re: Diarrhea in a raw fed dog--help!
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:55 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "nancymccarel" <nancytmcc@...> wrote:
I fasted her
> for 24 hours, then yesterday I reintroduced some raw boneless turkey
> and raw turkey heart (a smaller amount than I usually feed her).
> Stools yesterday were soft but formed and I thought we were coming out
> of the woods. Today I fed a raw turkey thigh with bone and right
> afterwards she was back to watery stool.

Hi Nancy,
My thought on it is that maybe you shouldn't have made her first meal
boneless turkey and turkey heart. Bone is usually recommended to firm
up loose stools, and even though from your post it seems that the bone
triggered another bout, i would think it might have been the amount of
food versus the inclusion of bone, and so i would again fast for a day
and then go back to the basics and feed bone in chicken with the fat
and the skin removed. I would feed more frequently using smaller
amounts and see how it goes. Hope this gets cleared up before you
need to travel, KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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