[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12412

There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Sardines
From: Sai Simonson
1b. Re: Sardines
From: Yasuko herron

2.1. Re: Introducing the raw food diet! HELP!!!
From: windmilldairy
2.2. Re: Introducing the raw food diet! HELP!!!
From: carnesbill

3a. turkey necks/ground beef/ribs
From: Laurie Swanson
3b. Re: turkey necks/ground beef/ribs
From: Yasuko herron

4a. Re: HUNGRY DOG
From: Laurie Swanson
4b. Re: HUNGRY DOG
From: katkellm
4c. Re: HUNGRY DOG
From: Yasuko herron

5. Charley's Off his feed
From: becca1066

6a. Re: Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
From: homesforallpets

7.1. Re: So I decided to switch
From: cutensexyb89
7.2. Re: So I decided to switch
From: Yasuko herron

8a. Feeding meat from ill animals
From: Maria
8b. Re: Feeding meat from ill animals
From: windmilldairy

9a. Re: To worry or not to worry?
From: Yasuko herron
9b. Re: To worry or not to worry?
From: carnesbill

10a. Need a logical response
From: diannem200400
10b. Re: Need a logical response
From: Heather

11.1. Re: Over ambitious was Newbie Intro
From: Giselle

12. Relevant to several threads -runny stools/ lack of appetite/ weight
From: sisterloui

13. dehydrated raw
From: peggyparker_4

Messages
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1a. Re: Sardines
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:26 pm ((PST))

Oh well, I asked Google and being behind in the digests this may already
have been mentioned.

Sardines or pilchards are a group of several types of small oily fish
related to herrings, family Clupeidae. Sardines were named after the
island of Sardinia, where they were once in abundance. [1]

The terms are not precise, and the usual meanings vary by region; for
instance, to many people a "sardine" is a young European pilchard. A
generalisation is that if the fish is under 4 inches long (10 cm) it is
classed as a sardine, and if larger than 4 inches it is classed as a
pilchard. The FAO/WHO Codex standard for canned sardines cites 21
species that may be classed as sardines;[2] FishBase, a comprehensive
database of information about fish, lists at least six species called
just "pilchard," over a dozen called just "sardine," and many more with
the two basic names qualified by various adjectives.

Canned "sardines" in supermarkets may actually be sprats (such as the
"brisling sardine") or round herrings. The actual sizes of the fish
canned varies by species. Good quality sardines should have the head and
gills removed before packing.[2] They may be also eviscerated before
packing (typically the larger varieties), or not; if not eviscerated
they should be free of undigested or partially digested food or feces[2]
(accomplished by holding the live fish in a tank for long enough that
their digestive systems empty themselves). They may be packed in oil or
some sort of sauce.

Wikipedia

Sai

Messages in this topic (23)
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1b. Re: Sardines
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:30 pm ((PST))

>They may be packed in oil or some sort of sauce.

Packed in water is the one you want to pick and feed.No sauce,no oil in can.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (23)
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2.1. Re: Introducing the raw food diet! HELP!!!
Posted by: "windmilldairy" drwindmill@gmail.com windmilldairy
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:26 pm ((PST))

Jerri-

I would allow her to miss a couple of meals, then she will probably gladly eat whatever you
give to her.

Pat

Messages in this topic (32)
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2.2. Re: Introducing the raw food diet! HELP!!!
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:45 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Jerri Buiting <jerribuiting@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi~
>
> I decided to start Mocha on the raw food diet and went out
> and bought a
> couple of chickens and an extra package of liver/gizzards
> since most everyone suggested I start out with chicken.

Great, welcome to the world of raw feeding. Put the liver/gizzards
in the freezer for a couple of months. You don't need to feed
organs early in the new diet. They are very rich and can cause
digestive upset.

> She won't touch it. She took it out of my hand and
> promptly dropped it on the floor and walked away.

Thats not an unusual first reaction. She probably hasn't figured
out that it's ok to eat this stuff.

> I tried feeding it to her by hand for a few minutes and she
> just got frustrated (so did I)!

Yeah, that often happens in the beginning. She is very confused and
doesn't know what she is supposed to do. It may take her a day or
two.

> I've looked at a few more entries and sites. Some say to
> start introducing the raw diet with cooked meat and cooking
> it less and less every day.

I don't advise that. In my mind, its just not a good idea.

> I'm worried about the bones then -- do I grind them up and
> cook them with the meat since cooked chicken bones are what is bad?

Thats the reason I don't advise to food with any type of cooking.

> Most of what I read indicates that dogs LOVE the raw
> food--of course, why could I have it easy? Any ideas out there?

Yes, fast her for a day. Then offer the chicken again. You might
pull off a piece or two and lay next to the main portion. Then
wait. If she doesn't go for it in 10 or 15 minutes, take it up and
put it back in the fridge. Bring it out next meal and begin all
over again. She will pretty quickly figure it out.

In a few days you are going to be writing in asking how to slow down
her eating. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (32)
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3a. turkey necks/ground beef/ribs
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:47 pm ((PST))

Hi Kathy,

I'd save the turkey necks for later when you see how your dog eats.
They can be choking hazards. Also search the archives for more info
and opinions.

The ground stuff is ok, but not ideal for it to be a big part of the
diet. It doesn't offer any engagement/ripping/tearing, or dental
cleaning, etc. Good way to get some cheap beef, though.

I occasionally feed beef ribs to my Boston Terrier. The bones are too
hard for him so I remove them when he's cleaned them off (he doesn't
make much progress, so I know he's having trouble crunching them, and
he's got 2 chipped teeth from before I knew better on that...).
They're a good workout and good for cleaning teeth, but may not be that
great of a deal, considering what your dog actually gets out of them.

Bill always says that he has good luck special ordering from a smaller,
independent grocer, and that makes sense. See if you have a small
market where they are more interested in ordering you cases of stuff--
anything economical, including maybe beef heart.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "homesforallpets"
<homesforallpets@...> wrote:
> Also we happened to go by Walmart (only grocery shop in town that is
> reasonable) and a lot of stuff is marked down due to shelf life.
> Like Turkey necks, chicken liver, ground chuck,
> ground "hamburger". . .Are bone in Beef back ribs ok to offer?
>

Messages in this topic (16)
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3b. Re: turkey necks/ground beef/ribs
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:30 pm ((PST))

>They can be choking hazards.

Hi.If you learn dog's eating habits,that can be fed.My dog is chewer so,I give her Turkey Neck with added meat.She loves it and she crunch down very good. I have no problem feeding it to her.

I think Ground beef is all right but,I think it makes my dog runny poo probably fattier than meat she can handle well,so,I do not feed it other than the reason ground anything does not require dog to rip,chew etc.

Beef ribs,Buffalo ribs,etc I feed to my dog and she ets bone all most of the time.No problems for teeth wise too.Only bone cannot eat by her is oxtail bone.She does not make any dent so,I take it away.

Ribs are sort of fatty so,I do not offer all of the time.When I offer,I offer with added meat.

yassy

yass

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Messages in this topic (16)
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4a. Re: HUNGRY DOG
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:47 pm ((PST))

Hi Pam,

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "pamela993748" <pamduthie@...>
wrote:
> So I have tried increasing his food but any time I give him extra
he
> is sick in the night or has runny poo
> - if I give him the 2% (ish) he has had no problem with any food I
> have given him but upping the food does not seem to work for him

***Have you tried feeding 2 meals a day? You could do that for a bit
until things have improved, and then start gradually increasing meal
size again until you've dropped the 2nd meal.

is there foods that are
> higher fat that I should be feeding him

***Unless you really want to, and his diet is extremely lean (all
skin and fat removed, and very lean cuts), I personally wouldn't
increase fat much at this point with the already present runny poo
issues. That might make things worse in that dept.

> Sorry if I am hijacking the question - I thought it was relivent to
> the origonal (and I am new so scared to start my own question :o) )

***What is there to be afraid of? But it's not hijacking--that's how
it works, it's just a discussion and we can all participate! :-)

Laurie

Messages in this topic (14)
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4b. Re: HUNGRY DOG
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:02 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "pamela993748" <pamduthie@...> wrote:
> I have a 9 month old pup who has been on raw for about 1 month
> He did not eat well on kibble - about 25% of what he should have (on
> a good day)

Hi Pam,
I had a dog who was like yours before raw. He was so skinny at around
a year that friends would come around and say stuff like geez do
something about him. He ate just enough kibble to keep him going.
Now don't get me wrong, he wasn't sickly or anything, just super
skinny because he hated to eat. When i switched to raw he began to
eat with gusto, but he still wouldn't eat more than 2% of his then
current weight, and according to what he weighs now, and he looks
good, he was about 15lbs under weight. If i fed him more than a
pound, he now eats 2, he either refused the extra or returned it to me
and wouldn't re eat it. I ended up giving him a tad bit more food
every week. Gradually, week by week, he ate a little more food.
After about 4 months of raw food, i started to offer him big meals,
like a whole chicken or turkey or roast, and let him eat til he quit
eating. He was able to keep what ever he ate down, and has been a
super eater ever since. I guess the moral of my story is add a
smidgen more food each week and in about 3 more months you should see
a huge turn around in him. HTH, KathyM

Messages in this topic (14)
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4c. Re: HUNGRY DOG
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:44 pm ((PST))

>> So I have tried increasing his food but any time I give him extra
he is sick in the night or has runny poo

Hi. If feeding more cause the runny problems, you can feed smaller meal each time you feed frequently.

For example,my dog 34lb gets roughly around 10-13oz perday but if she had problems you are facing to,what I would do is that feed frequently and if i were feeding only once a day,then,I feed 2-3 meals a day and then, each meal will be like 4oz,3oz, 3oz;total amount devide through the day.

Then,if that did not fix the problems, I try removing skin of poultry or cut off visible fat in meal.

Usually those two method works for my dog.

Or,feed combo meal. Like Tongues are usually fattier than normal meat and run around 60-70% fat in it. Lamb tongue is 70% fat.My dog seem to have fat problem;too much fat in meal cause runny poo.So,when I fed Tongue,I usually maje combo meal with other meat like Boneless beef with Beef Tongue or Lamb tongue with Boneless tongue etc. THat solved problem too.

I think Mutton is very fatty meat but lamb as well.Ribs are usually around60% fat.Lean is Turkey but Cornish Hen is 60% fat too.

Some dogs are ok with lots of fat in meal but somedog may need tweak in meal.

If you like to see how much fat in meat,look up the site at www.nutritiondata.com

It tells you how much carb,how much protin,how much fat in piece of meat.

I found chicken feet is also 60% fat.My dog do well on it but I do not feed it often and I make it as very valuable thing for her and use to trade with big big meat to give up for next time also feed along with fish. Cheap chicken feet does traing very good and no snapping or no growlin to take out her meal when I feed big one.

Or..runny poop maybe you just need more bone to meal,You just experiment and see what works for your dog,

I recommend to keep Journal.It really helps for Detective work like that.

yassy

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5. Charley's Off his feed
Posted by: "becca1066" becca1066@yahoo.com becca1066
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:47 pm ((PST))

OK, I'm not panicking yet-but except for some rabbit pinkies day
before yesterday he's not eating. Wed. I gave him a rabbit-never
touced it. yesterday it was pork neck bones-usually a favorit-
they're still out there today

This is not normal for him (115 lb GSD, raw fed most of his life)
He is active, playing, acting normal, but not tearing into his food
is not him

he has been eating the pinkies (I raise rabbits and had some losses)
but nothing else that I can tell (he will occassioanly catch and eat
a squirrel)

he does have a place on his tail he has been chewing-no idea what
started it but I have been putting peroxide & gentle iodine on it-
went through the whole lick granuloma with another dog)

I've got a few goodies left to try but I am little concerned

any ideas?

becca

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6a. Re: Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:30 pm ((PST))

> >
> Sometimes you really do get what you pay for. Read the ingredients
> on that cheap kibble. Seven bucks a month is probably too much for
> what's in it!

Yes, I know that is why I am looking to switch her.

> I don't know where you live in Missouri, but I those prices are
> SCARY! I live in NW Missouri, and I got chicken leg quarters
> recently for 39 cents/lb., and can get them any time for about 50
> cents.

I'm in Clinton. Yes sometimes very scary. Its getting hard to shop
the grocer and feed my family. Going to try to find a yocal to get
meat for us and the animals from.

I went to the store and well if I look REALLY hard I can find stuff
not too bad. I'm going to put a sign in my local feed shop offering
to pay for stuff from people who process their own or pay to have it
done, I bet they can get the odds n ends from the processor for not
too much or free and do a slight mark up to get it to me.

> Quarters with the bone or whole chickens will be much cheaper than
> that bag of breasts. Leg QUARTERS (not drumsticks or thighs) seem
to
> be cheapest of all. Look for pork shoulder. I have gotten it for
as
> little as 89 cents/lb.

Good idea! We are getting everything we need day after Christmas
(everything gets marked down seems like) we do not eat much (if any)
pork but doesn't mean Angel can't.

Many grocers discount meat that
> is approaching its human-consumption expiration date. Look late at
> night or first thing in the morning to pick off these bargains. I
> have gotten perfectly good meat for myself this way, provided I was
> going to cook or freeze it that day.

So have I, actually saw a lot of stuff marked down like that today,
hope some is still there Monday. Like Turkey necks, they had lots of
turkeynecks marked $1.50 or about that in a pack of looked like 3 or
4.

> You mentioned a cat, too, I believe. Is it also raw-fed? If so,
> rats (not babies, but not huge, either) would be ideal whole prey.
> If you are not raw-feeding your cat and want to start, be aware
that
> the transition can be slower than with dogs, and cats should never
be
> deprived of what they WILL eat to hurry the process.

I have 2, they don't eat raw. Been trying since they were kittens
(they are four), however we started having troubles with mice and
they are eating them so I think Rats will be a good start!

Thanks!

Kathy in MO
Angel - Black Lab
Oreo & Turkey - cats

Messages in this topic (16)
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7.1. Re: So I decided to switch
Posted by: "cutensexyb89" cutensexyb89@yahoo.com cutensexyb89
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:30 pm ((PST))

No
I don't know the different types, I just thought it would be a good
idea to know when it stops being just an upset stomach, or too fatty
of a food, to something that needs medical attention and how to tell
the difference.

My one dog Kahlie had a hernia and had surgery about 1 month ago,
could the tear and stitches in her stomach make a difference on if the
bone can pass through?
Madie
>
> *** Parasites in commercial meats are extremely uncommon. The symptoms
> would depend on the parasite in question. Is there a particular one
> about which you are worried?
>
> --Carrie
>

Messages in this topic (32)
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7.2. Re: So I decided to switch
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:16 pm ((PST))

>I am going to alternate between chicken parts, and hopefully find some
whole chickens to cut up, do the small game hens count as chicken?


Hi. Cornish Game hens are Baby chicken basically and, one bird usually weigh around 2lb and I bought Tyson brand Cornish hen that comes with 2 birds in one package and I used coupon so,it was little good buy.Bone-wise,since baby chicken,much softer bone than regular chicken,I think. Fat% wise,look at www.nutritiondata.com,search Chicken,Cornish game hen and you see the fat%.

Also,recently I got Fowl(in Nov I think),and it was I thought Gunia Fowl but when asked to consumar affair section at grocery store,they told me on the phone that it is a Stewing chicken or overgrown chicken.So,it looks,to me,a little harder in bone but not as hard as Turkey bone and meat looks chew when I observe palette eating it. She likes both though.

>would that upset them?

If you did not overfeeding them,probably won't. But if it did,you can try feeding without skin or less skin on it.THat solve some fat% problem in one sitting.

>I am going on a road trip with the girls in a week and think it would be easier to buy a small hen or 1/2 a chicken for them instead of having to get individual pieces.

I did try road trip to IN this year for the first time with rawfeeding my dog. What I did was.. plan the meal for 1 week ahead of time and bag the one day worth items in zip bag(freezer bag ) with date on it so that you know what day you feed it. If the date was no matter,you just devide items in zip bag and no date on it will be fine.

I kept Gelpak that comes when receiving meat from suppliers and I used about 5-6 paks this time. I used cooler and place some Gel pak on bottom,put items I like to feed while i am away from home in there and top off with another Gelpak.Only road trip day's meat is thawed and others are frozen like a rock.

We did 11hour trip yesterday from VA to IN.I was curious,how the meat was. The meat was still frozen and Gelpak was little softer parts on surface but bottom one was pretty hard still and,I was amazed how well it worked. I put thawed chicken in the cooler too inside the small bowl (but chicken itself in zip bag),it stayed cool too.

I did not have to worry about medalion thing you talking about;pre-made.

Canned fish is good too to add in your feeding list because you do not have to worry about keeping it cool all the time,just drain and feed(get one packed in water though).

My dog still gets liver too.I pre-packed bits of liver after thawing the liver and cut to amount you want and add to frozen meat and froze it together. THat way,you just dump whenever you want to feed it. So,she still gets tripe too.

And on trip day,I fed her 1 hours before leaving house to make sure car ride would not give her tum prob.and fed dinner after arriving the destination. My dog never vomit bile now no matter what time I feed.Sometimes,we get late from grocery shopping and have late dinner and she is fed after we be fed but she is fine.She can handle that.She became more flexible on feeding schedule after switch.

>They have had some gas and seem a bit tired, probably from the pigs foot I gave them last night,

Did you give it as rec bone?? It is bone,skin,cartilidge etc but not enough meat on it to make it as meal. If you want it to be meal,add boneless meat to it and you are not going to get little nudget poo with frequent poopy time.


>(is their a difference)

I think,Lrg quarter is total of thigh portion and Drumsticks. 2 things makes it to Leg quarter.
Am I wrong??

> would it do damage to give themsome Primal (pre-made raw) once a week?

Well,bad thing about pre-made is some may have veg or vitamins in it(I am not sure for sure because I never bought it but i am guessing) and you have no control of waht goes into dog tum. And,not require chewing ripping action like meat itself does.

If you cannot bring coolers, you can buy little package of meat on the road trip and feed it.

>Also what does trim your message mean?

Deleting unnecessary lines you don't need to answer to.

yassy

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8a. Feeding meat from ill animals
Posted by: "Maria" plava_93@yahoo.com plava_93
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:30 pm ((PST))

I posted a while back about goats with copper deficincy. I got three of
them and the owner sent the livers off to be tested. They had CAE
(Caprine arthritis Encephalitis)
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/caefaq.aspx

Would feeding these goats harm mine and my cousins dogs? Since the
virus often passed from doe to kid the woman is probably going to have
this happen to all of her goats. She already has two more that I will
be getting next month, their joints get really bad at about 3-5 years
of age and most of her goats are around that age.

Thank you.
Maria

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8b. Re: Feeding meat from ill animals
Posted by: "windmilldairy" drwindmill@gmail.com windmilldairy
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:45 pm ((PST))

I wouldn't worry about feeding the meat, that arthritis cannot be passed to dogs.

Pat

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9a. Re: To worry or not to worry?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:31 pm ((PST))

>It's almost sad to not be able to feed him as much as he wants because he tends
towards plump, anyway, and his bum rear leg restricts his exercise, so
definitely a potential to chunkiness. He should weigh about 20-22#,
so he gets about 8oz/day.

My dog is on plan to loose some weight too.I tried just reducing the amount you feed, but it did not work with increased excercise activity.

My dog is Corgi so,she has loong back with short stabby legs so,keeping the lean weight is a must for her.Not good for her long back.

Heaviest she was 36lb. She is taller than normal Corgi which is 12inch in average I read but she is 14" tall,so,I think that 30lb or so is probably better weight for her considering her being tall,so,I am working on it.

If you reduce the food,yes, you feed less calorie but,large number of calories are coming from Fat.Maybe that is why my dog could not loose on that method to loose weight.

I reduced calorie but did not reduce amount too drastically.I am giving her moderate fat% around 38-40% in average in a week. I tweak menu by calorie total and average fat% in meal and it is working.She is now 34lb.It is not big change but I do not want to loose her weight too drastically and as long as she is not going to gain again,I like slow steady approach.
For owners,it is little bit of work to do,but I do not mind working on it if it helps my dog so,I started doing this and it is rough numbers you get on web but you still can get rough ideas how much of what calories you are feeding and fat% so,it helps.

you can see fat% or calorie at www.nutritiondata.com and if you really like what i am doing you can register at the site for free to make your own pantry and you can click item and add to pantry and you put amount you want to feed and it gives you total cal and total fat% and other nutrition numbers if you wish to look at like if you were interested in taurin amount you can see that too... Just a rough idea.Not exact.

One thing I really l ike thesdays are Frog leg. It took a little time for my dog to eat all raw (one day) but,it is very lean and soft bone and looks quite good protin source.So,I used to feed chicken feet 2 times a week along with fish but I switched to one time with Frog leg and one time with chicken feet. That worked good. And I feed Rib occasionary but not as often as it was and tongue meals are now always combined with other boneless meat to make fat% lower than tongue itself.I do not go for extreme low fat though because dog needs fat.

>They get some beef, pork, and some turkey, but generally boneless,

Well,bones are..for beef,some may not feel comfortable but I am comfortable feeding Neck,Rib,tail.Oxtail seem to be unedible bone to my dog so,I just take it away but ribs and Neck,she eats all but I do not say those are softer bone.Hardest bone among 3 protin sources you put here.

Pork ribs are quite soft bone and,Neck bone is soft too.Not too soft but softer side bone.

Turkey bone is sound hard bone when you hear the cruncxh sound but it is not as hard as beef at all and no problems.In fact,my dog had Turkey today.She really likes Turkey too.

You know,even among boneless,you can give variety among 4legged animals,

there are heart(usually not too expensive),Tongue,and big hunk of roast(cost effective i think).

As for poultry,buying the whole birds are much much cheaper than trying to buy all kinds of parts and usually boneless is expensive too(I bought Boneless chicken breast because I need it to make for pizza tomorrow for family and it was 5 dollars with 3 breast!!) . Maybe if you buy Whole Turkey and cut up,it is more economical.Plus you get giblet bag too if you buy a whole birds and 1 neck of course and,you get little variety with just buying whole birds.

10lb of Turkey would last quite long.

> I never get them pork necks, either, because here, they are sold in small bony chunks,

Ask the meat guy if they got unsliced bone back the counter.I got whole oxtail that way.You usually would see 1 inch chunk of bone for soup but nope,I got 4-5lb oxtail at local grocery store because I asked for it.So,ask the guy and you may find a treasure!!

yassy who is away from home in VA and now in Indiana state after 11hr car drive..

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9b. Re: To worry or not to worry?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:31 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "tobrlaka" <tobrlaka@...> wrote:
>
> They get some beef, pork, and some turkey, but generally boneless,
> (and not very often, due to expense)because she always regurges the
> tip of the beef rib (and it sounds like she's bringing up a
> house when she does), and I'm afraid pork and turkey bones
> would be even more troublesome.

Hey Brenda, Actually the pork and turkey bones are nowhere near as
troublesom as beef bones. I don't feed my dogs beef bones at all
but they handle pork and turkey bones easily. Try a rack of pork
ribs or any turkey part. I'm sure they will do fine.

> I'd like to take advantage of the anticipated post-holiday sales of
> pork and turkeys....but aren't turkey bones just too splintery
> for 20# dogs?

No, they should be able to handle them ok. I don't think turkey
bones are any more "splintery" than chicken bones.

> I'd like them to get more variety....but I'm shy of the bony parts,
> aside from chicken........

Try'em, you'll like'em. :) :) :) Then non-boney parts of the pig
are great too.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. Need a logical response
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:07 pm ((PST))

We had a near tragedy yesterday. I have an old guy with bad teeth and
I cut up his meat for him. I missed cutting a piece of pork and he got
one about the size of a baseball. He swallowed it and it got stuck. I
had my hand down his throat up to my wrist and could not get the
slippery thing out. He passed out and we thought he had died. I kept
digging anyway and got it out and he finally took a breath. He is okay
today. My husband, however, is not. Now he thinks I should cut up all
the dogs' (I have 5) meat into bite sized pieces. I try to feed the
others pieces of at least 2 lbs. or so and I tried to explain (badly)
that the dogs rend and tear as they eat the meat. He says that will
only get the meat down to a size that they can swallow and inevitably
they will get a piece that causes choking. I don't know how to
describe the process logically enough to convince him that I am not
going to kill the dogs one at a time. Help! (and thank you!)

Dianne M.

Messages in this topic (2)
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10b. Re: Need a logical response
Posted by: "Heather" newbeginnings06@gmail.com malignstar
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:37 am ((PST))

Your dog was not used to really chewing up his meals, so as a habit he
swallowed or lightly chewed what you gave him. It was a freak
accident. Your other dogs that ARE used to chewing shouldn't have a
problem because they are used to using their jaws. Sometimes my cat
will not chew properly and up it comes. It was probably at a part in
his throat that he couldn't regurgitate it. Hope your boy isn't too
traumatized by it all.. though I imagine it was scarier for you!

Heather

Messages in this topic (2)
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11.1. Re: Over ambitious was Newbie Intro
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:20 am ((PST))

Hi, Jo!
Not sure if you've posted how much your Aussie weighs.

And, not sure how much 200 g is, uh, a bit over 7 oz?

Not much, it seems - if your dog is about 45 lbs - 3% of 45 lbs = 1 lb
5.6oz for a meal?

If so, then 3 sardines would be about 1/3 of a meal for her.

I'd feed one (or 1/2 of one) next time, with a scaled down version of her
regular meal, and build the amount of sardines you feed her from there.

Once she is used to it, she should be able to eat an entire meal of fish. My
girl can eat a whole mackerel or 2 lbs of sardines at one whack. I usually
serve them right out of the freezer. Gives her a bit of resistance to crunch
them up frozen in a clump.

On Dec 22, 2007 2:26 PM, Jo <mistielass@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi Giselle
>
>
> > BTW, did you give her the chance to re eat it?
>
> Yes she did re eat it. It cost too much to throw away. LOL
>
> > Just remember, less is more, gradual is better than all at once.
>
> Yes I did get a bit over excited with it all. I will know in future. If
> she had been used to it was it the right quantity, or was it still too
> much for an experienced dog?
>
> Regards
> Jo
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (35)
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12. Relevant to several threads -runny stools/ lack of appetite/ weight
Posted by: "sisterloui" habershon@aol.com sisterloui
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:38 am ((PST))

Hi there,

I didnt want to derail any of the above questions but i find my
comments all seem interlinked in a way.

I only have domestic pets but my family does have members who are
game keepers or who own hunting dogs. They frequently have "starving
days" very often once a week. I was taught this mimics the feeding
cycle in the wild, ie they would often NOT catch prey and eat every
day.Our habit of feeding everyday at a regular time doesnt give the
gut time to recover. Please note this is just a family thing, i have
nothing to back this up but it seems reasonable.

If my dogs do get runny stools they again were starved for 24 hours
to allow "whatever" had caused it to leave the system then feeding
would start again with a very low fat high protein and small meal.

Some of you may remember me asking advice about whether to put
a "visiting" spaniel onto raw meat from kibble for the short period i
had her? She was a terribly slow and picky eater on kibble. She didnt
seem to recognise "raw" as food, but by observing my Labrador wolfing
dinner down (excuse the pun) she soon took to the meat and thoroughly
enjoyed it.

My plan "B" was, if after a week she still wasnt eating was to lace
the raw meat with a little gravy to help her identify it as food.
My plan "C" was to add raw and reduce kibble over a period of 2
weeks. Not ideal I agree but I was prepared to do anything to get her
off the kibble.

She didnt seem to want meaty bones either, but after watching my Lab
eating, she soon pinched the bone off him and tucked in herself.

I am never concerned if my dogs are off their food for a few days,
more than a week though and i would be calling on the vet to have
them checked over.

I dont have experience of underweight dogs but i do have one thought
on the over weight ones. My lab was over weight and after about 18
months on feeding raw has only lost a few pounds in weight. BUT he
has lost an awful lot of fat and toned up and gained muscle.

I described it to friends and family as the atkins diet for dogs. In
humans unused carbs are converted to fat, protein isnt. I wondered if
a similar thing happens with dogs ? I have no way of weighing my lab
on a regular basis so I did take his waist measurement and this has
gone down by several inches.

I would appreciate your thoughts on this matter.

Many thanks, and sending you all best wishes for a wonderful
Christmas.
Jane,
(sisterloui)

Messages in this topic (1)
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13. dehydrated raw
Posted by: "peggyparker_4" peggyparker_4@yahoo.com peggyparker_4
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:49 am ((PST))

Has anyone had any experience with the food from The Honest Kitchen?
After struggling with pure raw for a month with my 4 month 3lb. puppy,
I became concerned that he wasn't getting enough nutrients. He doesn't
know what to do with a bone, and the butcher could not grind one up for
me, so I ordered a 4lb. bag of the dehydrated, add raw meat to it and
he is loving it. It is good to see him dive into his food instead of
eyeballing it with disdain and confusion. If I could find a bone shaped
like a shoe, I bet he would know what to do with it then.
Peggy

Messages in this topic (1)
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