[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12411

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
From: mozookpr
1b. Re: Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
From: carnesbill
1c. Re: Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
From: Michelle Grabert
1d. Re: Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
From: Sandee Lee
1e. Re: Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
From: homesforallpets

2a. Re: HUNGRY DOG
From: Sandee Lee
2b. Re: HUNGRY DOG
From: mozookpr
2c. Re: HUNGRY DOG
From: Laura Atkinson
2d. Re: HUNGRY DOG
From: Yasuko herron
2e. Re: HUNGRY DOG
From: pamela993748

3.1. Re: Over ambitious was Newbie Intro
From: Jo

4.1. Re: Newbie Questions
From: carnesbill
4.2. Re: Newbie Questions
From: homesforallpets

5a. Re: hip dysplasia
From: Sandee Lee

6.1. Re: Nature designed diet?
From: carnesbill

7.1. Re: need some advice
From: Laura Atkinson
7.2. Re: need some advice
From: homesforallpets

8a. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with dobe
From: Jill Coleman

9.1. Re: So I decided to switch
From: cutensexyb89
9.2. Re: So I decided to switch
From: cypressbunny
9.3. Re: So I decided to switch/loose stools & big meals
From: Laurie Swanson
9.4. Re: So I decided to switch
From: Yasuko herron

10. To worry or not to worry?
From: tobrlaka

11.1. Introducing the raw food diet! HELP!!!
From: Jerri Buiting
11.2. Re: Introducing the raw food diet! HELP!!!
From: Sandee Lee

Messages
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1a. Re: Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:22 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "homesforallpets"
<homesforallpets@...> wrote:
>
>
> Right now I pay $7 for a 40# bag of kibble lasts her the entire
> month. I doublt I could get that much meat with $7. A bag of
> chicken breasts costs $9. Turkeys whole are going for $1.25 to $2
> per pound depending on brand but I'll look day after Christmas.
Get
> paid Monday, will look for stuff on sale. For dogs its ok if it
> doesn't have much people shelf live left right??
>
Sometimes you really do get what you pay for. Read the ingredients
on that cheap kibble. Seven bucks a month is probably too much for
what's in it!

I am new to raw feeding, but I AM an experienced "guerilla shopper."
<g>

I don't know where you live in Missouri, but I those prices are
SCARY! I live in NW Missouri, and I got chicken leg quarters
recently for 39 cents/lb., and can get them any time for about 50
cents. This is one time that cheaper is better. Don't pay someone
to skin and bone chicken for your dogs, it is better for them as is.
Quarters with the bone or whole chickens will be much cheaper than
that bag of breasts. Leg QUARTERS (not drumsticks or thighs) seem to
be cheapest of all. Look for pork shoulder. I have gotten it for as
little as 89 cents/lb. The bone is good, too, lots better than the
wreck bones grocers usually sell for dogs. My sheltie is still
chewing on the one from yesterday's lunch. It's not a meal anymore,
but it beats the heck out beef leg bones, which can chip teeth.

I have noticed prices are up this week, with Christmas dinners
looming ahead, but lots of that meat will probably be on sale after
the holidays are over.

I'm still new to this, and since one of my dogs is picky and the
other will eat anything, but gets very poopy when I rush her with new
items, I am holding off on offering "ripe" meat. However, I am very
eager to beg "throwaway" meats from friends (old, freezer-burnt, and
the like) when I feel confident the dogs are ready for them. There
is some good free stuff right there. Many grocers discount meat that
is approaching its human-consumption expiration date. Look late at
night or first thing in the morning to pick off these bargains. I
have gotten perfectly good meat for myself this way, provided I was
going to cook or freeze it that day.

Dogs don't have to have eggs, but those that enjoy them get a brain-
teaser and a snack all at once (and a bit of entertainment for you,
too -- watching a dog with a whole egg in the shell can be lots of
fun!)

You mentioned a cat, too, I believe. Is it also raw-fed? If so,
rats (not babies, but not huge, either) would be ideal whole prey.
If you are not raw-feeding your cat and want to start, be aware that
the transition can be slower than with dogs, and cats should never be
deprived of what they WILL eat to hurry the process.

Sorry to be so long-winded, but bargain-hunting is a passion of mine,
and mixing it with raw-feeding is simply irresistible.

Cheers,

Wendy

Messages in this topic (13)
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1b. Re: Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:35 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "homesforallpets"
<homesforallpets@...> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry that is what I meant, all animal nothing else.

Cool. :) :) :)

> So no eggs or milk or anything like that?

Eggs are good food later in the diet. If I remember correctly you
are just starting. You can feed whole eggs in a month or two with
no problem. Milk or other dairy products are never good to feed.

> Right now I pay $7 for a 40# bag of kibble lasts her the entire
> month. I doublt I could get that much meat with $7.

You've got to be feeding Ol'Roy, the lowest of the low quality dog
foods. You asked the perfect question ... You CAN'T get that much
meat for that price. The reason is that there is almost no meat in
the food you are feeding. Pure economics says so. Dog food
companies don't get real meat for free. The food you are feeding is
90% ground yellow corn, soybean meal, ground wheat, and corn syrup.
See any meat in there? What little meat is in it is road kill stuff
and euthanized pets. Now do you understand why its $7 for 40#?

> I'll look day after Christmas. Get
> paid Monday, will look for stuff on sale. For dogs its ok if it
> doesn't have much people shelf live left right??

Its ok if its weeks past people shelf life. :) :) :)

> Thanks. I am trying to find local folks to buy odds n ends
> off of.

Cool, thats the way to go. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (13)
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1c. Re: Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
Posted by: "Michelle Grabert" chalienme@yahoo.com chalienme
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:58 pm ((PST))

why is Milk or dairy products bad for them? they like Milk..and cottage cheese and yogurt...and such,,it is bad for them? michelle

carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote: --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "homesforallpets"
<homesforallpets@...> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry that is what I meant, all animal nothing else.

Cool. :) :) :)

> So no eggs or milk or anything like that?

Eggs are good food later in the diet. If I remember correctly you
are just starting. You can feed whole eggs in a month or two with
no problem. Milk or other dairy products are never good to feed.

> Right now I pay $7 for a 40# bag of kibble lasts her the entire
> month. I doublt I could get that much meat with $7.

You've got to be feeding Ol'Roy, the lowest of the low quality dog
foods. You asked the perfect question ... You CAN'T get that much
meat for that price. The reason is that there is almost no meat in
the food you are feeding. Pure economics says so. Dog food
companies don't get real meat for free. The food you are feeding is
90% ground yellow corn, soybean meal, ground wheat, and corn syrup.
See any meat in there? What little meat is in it is road kill stuff
and euthanized pets. Now do you understand why its $7 for 40#?

> I'll look day after Christmas. Get
> paid Monday, will look for stuff on sale. For dogs its ok if it
> doesn't have much people shelf live left right??

Its ok if its weeks past people shelf life. :) :) :)

> Thanks. I am trying to find local folks to buy odds n ends
> off of.

Cool, thats the way to go. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
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1d. Re: Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:07 pm ((PST))

Dairy products aren't species appropriate. Once weaned, many dogs become
lactose intolerant. They are high carbohydrate, high sugar...none of which
dogs require and could produce digestive upsets, feed yeasty problems, etc.
If they are nothing more than occasional treats and your dogs don't have any
problems with them, you can feed a little.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Michelle Grabert" <chalienme@yahoo.com>

> why is Milk or dairy products bad for them? they like Milk..and cottage
cheese and yogurt...and such,,it is bad for them?
michelle

Messages in this topic (13)
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1e. Re: Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:35 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "bluegracepwd" <janea@...> wrote:
>
> Wow, you can just imagine the quality, or absence thereof, in a
> product that costs so little.
>

I KNOW, big reason I want to switch to raw. I was feeding Eagle Pack
to my old dog. It was better than the stuff I can get now.

> So the trick is to find suppliers that will give you a good quality
of
> food, without breaking the bank. The person who pays the most for
> food doesn't win some sort of imaginery competition.

If I could have Dairy goats where I am I would I know they have to
kid every year to produce milk, that would give us goat meat. I
could advertise looking for goat meat from dairy goat owners. . . Are
there any good online places I can order from?

Also we happened to go by Walmart (only grocery shop in town that is
reasonable) and a lot of stuff is marked down due to shelf life.
Like Turkey necks, chicken liver, ground chuck,
ground "hamburger". . .Are bone in Beef back ribs ok to offer?

>
> I'm very lucky where I get a range of food delivered to my house.
I
> pay nothing for delivery, and whole goats and sheep cost me $10-$15.
>

Wow, wish I could get some suppliers like that. Course I probably
need a second freezer now huh?

Kathy in MO
Angel - Black Lab

Messages in this topic (13)
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2a. Re: HUNGRY DOG
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:28 am ((PST))

Hi Sheryll,

Yes, it should be 2-3% of her ideal adult weight, so you could probably add
some more food and see if that satisfies the girl! :)

Ribs and poultry are bone heavy and tilapia is pretty lean. Add some more
nice red meat and fat.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "ohyeachampion" <ohyeachampion@yahoo.com>
I feed her beef back ribs, eggs, tilapia, pork shoulder, turkey butts,
a range of offal, and an occasional cornish game hens. My boyfriend
thinks that I feed a bit more bone then meat but I've recently changed
to feeding her the whole chicken as opposed to chicken parts. For
awhile, she was getting fed ribs and offal alternately, because I
could get a good price on it.

As for her ideal weight, I was feeding her 3% of what she weighs. But
as a puppy I couldn't see feeding her as a 70lb dog. Is that where I
went wrong?

Messages in this topic (11)
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2b. Re: HUNGRY DOG
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:35 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Maggie Smith" <redkeds@...> wrote:
>
> sorry - eating cat poo and trash are behavioral issues, not hunger
> related.
>
> stick with the 3% - adjust up or down as needed. how does she look?
>

To clarify: you are speaking in terms of expected adult weight,
correct? A puppy receiving that precentage of its CURRENT weight would
be hungry indeed.

Wendy

Messages in this topic (11)
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2c. Re: HUNGRY DOG
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:04 pm ((PST))

Yep, that's where you're off. For puppies, you either feed 10% of their
current weight or 3% of their estimated adult weight. I go with the
estimated adult weight and adjust as needed for each individual. Because
then I don't have to weigh the darn puppy each week! I let my puppies get a
smidge plumper than the adults, 'cause the growth spurts seem to happen over
night and then they're lean again.

Robin, for instance, at 10 months old, is still eating around 1 lb a day.
But she's a trim, active puppy (she went out and did 5 miles this AM with
Daddy and the rest of the team). If I were determined to stick to 3% of her
anticipated adult weight, I'd have a malnourished puppy. Her big brother,
Blaze, who is 2" taller than she is and about 15-20 lbs heavier, eats about
the same amount. If I were stuck on a "chart" I'd either be WAY
underfeeding her or way overfeeding him.

So, go feed your puppy :-)

As for her ideal weight, I was feeding her 3% of what she weighs. But
as a puppy I couldn't see feeding her as a 70lb dog. Is that where I
went wrong?

Sheryll and Sherman

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Send more trespassers, the last ones were delicious

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
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2d. Re: HUNGRY DOG
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:00 pm ((PST))

>She's extremely fond of cat poo and w/ research we found that the behavior signals a hungry dog.

HI.I do not think that one of hungry dog signe be poop eating.Dog eats poo because poop has some undigested thing I hear. Or leant by mother who eats litters poo to clean the den.Or,dog learn the habit in puppy mill because without eating poo,the den of his or hers akways be dirty. I saw it on Animal planet program that has poop eating black lab.

> Should I increase the amount? Or is 2-3% what we should stick by?

2-3% is just a guideline but are you feeding 3% of estimated ADULT weight??

Some people mistake and feed 3% of current weight for puppy but for puppy,you want to feed % of estimated Adult weight.

It was my feeling you maybe feeding 2-3% of current body weight..

yassy

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

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Messages in this topic (11)
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2e. Re: HUNGRY DOG
Posted by: "pamela993748" pamduthie@btinternet.com pamela993748
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:14 pm ((PST))

Hi there
I have a 9 month old pup who has been on raw for about 1 month
He did not eat well on kibble - about 25% of what he should have (on
a good day)
As he is a cross I have no idea what his ideal weight is when fully
grown
So when I started up I went for 2% + a wee bit more of his current
weight
He also seemed vv hungry ( so glad to see him eat)
he is fairly lean because of not eating well on his last diet
So I have tried increasing his food but any time I give him extra he
is sick in the night or has runny poo
- if I give him the 2% (ish) he has had no problem with any food I
have given him but upping the food does not seem to work for him

Should I slowly increase the ammount or is there foods that are
higher fat that I should be feeding him (I dont want him fat - we
are going to do agility soon - but I can feel his spine and all his
other bones a bit too easily so I want to put a small amount of meat
on him)

At the moment his staples are chicken wings and legs, lamb and beef
hearts, liver (whatever is cheep) kidneys, tripe, whole small fish
and some turkey, beef, pork and lamb chunks (awaiting the local
delievery where I will be able to get a little more viarity but at
the moment that is all I can get pretty cheep in the supermarket)

Sorry if I am hijacking the question - I thought it was relivent to
the origonal (and I am new so scared to start my own question :o) )

Pam (and Ben)

Messages in this topic (11)
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3.1. Re: Over ambitious was Newbie Intro
Posted by: "Jo" mistielass@yahoo.co.uk mistielass
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:34 am ((PST))

Hi Giselle

> BTW, did you give her the chance to re eat it?

Yes she did re eat it. It cost too much to throw away. LOL

> Just remember, less is more, gradual is better than all at once.

Yes I did get a bit over excided with it all. I will know in future. If
she had been used to it was it the right quantity, or was it still too
much for an experienced dog?

Regards
Jo

Messages in this topic (34)
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4.1. Re: Newbie Questions
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:57 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Darjeelingirl"
<darjeelingirl@...> wrote:
>

> overwhelmed at the moment about how I'm going to find
> good, affordable raw
> meat (that's not full of antibiotics and hormones, etc.) for
> the pets and
> how to do it all...

I just shop at the grocery store. I order some things in bulk to
save money. Chicken does not have hormones in it. I don't worry
about the other meats anyway.

> I guess my first practical question is: Where do you all buy
> your meat?

Grocery store and from people cleaning out their freezer. I get a
good bit of deer meat like that.

> Can you actually find whole rabbits and such?

You usually get them from a breeder. Look for one in your area.

> Where do I find guidelines
> about how much to feed our dog, being a puppy and all?

Check out my web page listed under my signature below.
A few informative web sites are:
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm (My web page)
http://rawfeddogs.net/

--- be sure and check the recipes page.
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html
http://www.rawmeatybones.com

> And since our puppy
> is ALWAYS hungry and hunting for food, I need to ask what time
> of day do you feed your dog?

That is entirely your choice. Feeding times just don't matter.
Some people feed on a strict time schedule and some feed at random
times.

> Does he get it all at once or divided up throughout the day?

A puppy will get 3 or 4 meals a day. As he grows up, you can feed 2
tmes a day or once or every other day if you wish. Again, this
choice is entirely yours. It makes no difference in the health or
happiness of your dog.

> In general, who are the most trusted experts in this field?

The ONLY one I trust is Dr. Tom Lonsdale.

> What books should I read?

I highly recommend "Work Wonders", by Dr. Tom Lonsdale. You can
either get it at amazon.com or dogwise.com or download it in PDF
format from www.rawmeatybones.com.

Just click on the picture of the
book on the first page.

> Why do many rawfeeding places encourage owners to mix the food with
> grains/veggies?

Because all through their lives they have been taught to "eat your
veggies and frits" or you won't be healthy. They can't mentally get
away from that with their carnivores.

> Are there any real, live rawfeeding support groups in MN?

Don't know but you have the internet. Thats all you need. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (31)
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4.2. Re: Newbie Questions
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:35 pm ((PST))

> I guess my first practical question is: Where do you all buy your
meat?
> Can you actually find whole rabbits and such? The kids and I eat
mostly
> vegan so I am not too familiar with the meat world.
>

Hi! Go to www.arba.net and look for breeders near you. Many rabbit
breeders are in MN and sell to Raw feeders. Good luck!

Kathy in MO
Anngel - Black Lab

Messages in this topic (31)
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5a. Re: hip dysplasia
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:02 pm ((PST))

Maradeth,

I agree with Giselle that your diet is far too poultry heavy and bone heavy.
Dogs require red meat and lots of it. And no veggies...they do not consume
the stomach contents (and some veggies can be inflammatory). If you want to
take some weight off, get rid of the carbs and the marrow bones.

I am also wondering about the exercise....1-2 miles per day for a large
breed puppy with hip problems sounds like a bit much. Something like
swimming would be excellent exercise without putting strain on the hips.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "maradethc" <maradethc@yahoo.com>

Luckily, we have a contact at a large local food distributor. The
chicken we feed is mostly backs, but is sold as "parts". It is
mostly bad cuts of backs, but we find legs, wings, necks, etc. We
get it in 40lb lots, usually 4-5 boxes at a time.

In addition to vegetables, the veggie mix we feed contains ground
chicken, as well as organ meat. The organ meat consists of mostly
liver (beef and pork), along with kidneys, spleen, and heart (all
beef and pork). Most of this we find at local hispanic markets. We
also add raw eggs (protein) and yogurt. We don't feed whole
carcasses; the veggies are to simulate stomach contents found in a
whole carcass.

Sometimes we find whole (skinned) lamb or pig heads, we usually get
those when they are available - once or twice a month. They pork and
beef feet on about the same frequency.

We give meaty beef bones 3-4 times a week. They get all the meat
off, get the marrow, but don't consume the bones. Their teeth look
amazing!

Messages in this topic (16)
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6.1. Re: Nature designed diet?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:13 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Tinder" <mtinder@...> wrote:
>
> Bill, I'm feeding variety and generally the right percentages but
> I wonder if I am really approximating fully the nature
> designed meals.

You aren't right this moment. You will be in a month or two. In
the mean time, don't get too concerned about it. Your dogs will do
just fine. :)

> My dogs don't geerally get the benefit of the hide,
> head components,
> and other parts that nature would have provided

Doesn't matter. Think about it. The hide is hair and skin. Hair
is indigestable and passes right through. Skin has no nutrients
that aren't in muscles and bones. It's just skin.

> ... non poultry is
> skinned and poultry has no feathers.

Feathers are not very nutritious either.

> Just makes me wonder if I could
> be missing something.

No, you are not. There are more than enough nutrients in meat,
bones, and organs from a variety of animals. If you are concerned,
the USDA has a web site that list the nutrients in most any piece of
meat you could possibly feed your dog. Check it out. If you find a
needed nutrient missing, let me know. I won't be holding my
breath. :) :) :) The site is:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

Be sure to enter the
word "raw" in your search criteria.(raw chicken or raw beef, etc.)

> My barn cats take down little birds all the time. All that
> is left is
> a few feathers and not enough it seems to cover the bird.

Same here. My cats also catch rabbits and squirrels and chipmonks.
Sometimes they eat it all. Sometimes they just kill it and leave
it. Cats are vicious little critters. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (28)
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7.1. Re: need some advice
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:58 pm ((PST))

You're feeding her as much as I feed my 23 1/2", 60 lb, top of the standard
intact male Siberian Husky, which is to say...you're feeding her TOO MUCH
food.

Cut her back to about 3/4 of a lb a day, split into however many meals (I'd
go with 2 meals, but if she stays loose, go with 2 meals and a snack) and
see if that doesn't clear things up after a few days.

Siberians are very fuel efficient animals. That's been bred into them for
eons, because of the nomadic lifestyle of their early early ancestors.

My spayed, adult girls, with weights in the 40 lb range (give or take a
couple pounds) get around 1/2 a lb...a couple ounces either way...but never
always up :-) My neutered males, who are all in the 55+ range get around
3/4 of a lb..again, a couple ounces either way, but never always more. My
intact females, who are in the 40 lb range, get the same as the neutered
boys..and the intact male gets over 1lb a day.

On Dec 22, 2007 7:21 AM, adkjoe17 <j2dope17@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I have been feeding my 14 week old Siberian husky raw for almost
> almost 3 weeks now. her ideal adult weight is about
> 45lb. I have been feeding her about a pound of food total a day give
> or take a couple ounces. maybe i'm over feeding but it doesn't seem
> like it.

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Send more trespassers, the last ones were delicious

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (61)
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7.2. Re: need some advice
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:00 pm ((PST))

> She has pudding poop for the last few days, last night she woke me to
> take her out to poop 4 times.

Is it rank? I mean really foul smelling? Is she changing her eating
habits at all? Any vomiting? I ask because sudden runny stools like
that can be an early indicator of parvo. If caught early it IS
treatable and I have seen dogs recover.

GIANT chance its NOT but I figure best to check right?

Kathy in MO

Messages in this topic (61)
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8a. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with dobe
Posted by: "Jill Coleman" aquilter16@hotmail.com aquilter16
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:07 pm ((PST))

Hi CG, I see somebody did get back to you with some recommendations - go for it! Yes, she is back to normal, I guess I am a bit anxious to do things right and got ahead of myself!!! I can imagine how anxious you are to get your pup. I am thrilled with my Hannah - 5 months old now. My son has a 2 year old male, then moved out and I missed Diesel more than my son LOL - so had to get another - Great dogs, would love to correspond with you after you get yours - male or female??? If I can lend any advice let me know. Jill and Hannah

To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.comFrom: qigong@bluebottle.comDate: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:54:27 +0000Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with dobe

Hi there,I'm glad you got your dog sorted, I would say stick with the rawfeeding it really is the way to go!I'm getting a Dobermann pup in Feb'08 and was wondering if anyone hadadvice on raw feeding a young pup? If you have any links that may beuseful that would also be appreciated. I have a source of minced greentripe and chicken, I just happened to ask and a reasonably localgreyhound breeder feeds his dogs this way and is willing to sell mesome for my dog. So a new freezer in the sales is in order and get it stocked up forFeb. Looking forward to our new pup!Cheerscg

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Messages in this topic (15)
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9.1. Re: So I decided to switch
Posted by: "cutensexyb89" cutensexyb89@yahoo.com cutensexyb89
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:07 pm ((PST))

Thank you
I am starting to let go of my crazy worrying. It is hard, I still live
at home and my entire family thinks I am crazy and going to kill my dogs.
I will feed just a chicken thigh/breast meat for a week and see how
they do, they woke me up 3 times last nigh to go outside. But their
gas is virtually gone today and I think it was due to the pigs foot.
If all goes well I will be back in a week to try and introduce more
cow meat into them.

But just to be safe what are the symptoms of a dog with a bone
splintered in their stomach, or a parasite?

Madie

>
> If it makes you feel better you can feed whatever you want. You
> aren't harming your dog. You are not doing him any good either.
> Suppliments just aren't necessary. Very few people here give
> supplements unless its for a known physical problem. Everything is
> contained in the prey animal. Nature designed it that way. If it
> wasn't so, we wouldn't have carnivores.
>
> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>
> Feeding Raw since October 2002
>
> "Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
> Dr. Tom Lonsdale
>

Messages in this topic (28)
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9.2. Re: So I decided to switch
Posted by: "cypressbunny" cypressbunny@yahoo.com cypressbunny
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:26 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cutensexyb89" <cutensexyb89@...>
wrote:
>
> But just to be safe what are the symptoms of a dog with a bone
> splintered in their stomach, or a parasite?

*** Bones splintered in the stomach is the natural result of eating
bone-in meats. Both the stomach and the intestines are extremely
resistant to puncture. So, the primary symptom would be a happy dog
that just got done eating. Stomach acids dissolve bone. Problems with
bone can occur if the dog eats dry-cooked bone, or very dense bones
like beef knuckles or cut up cow femurs that are too hard to chew but
small enough to swallow. In most cases, though, they just come back up
again.

*** Parasites in commercial meats are extremely uncommon. The symptoms
would depend on the parasite in question. Is there a particular one
about which you are worried?

--Carrie

Messages in this topic (28)
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9.3. Re: So I decided to switch/loose stools & big meals
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:28 pm ((PST))

Hi Madie,

I may have missed something in one of the past posts but I saw at one
point I think you said you fed a chicken leg quarter. I just wanted to
mention that if you fed that to a 15# dog, that's a really big meal and
could cause lots of runny poops (especially for a newbie raw dog). You
might want to keep the meals a bit on the smaller side as well as
limiting variety, in the beginning. The pigs' feet are fatty, though,
so that could be the culprit, too.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cutensexyb89" <cutensexyb89@...>
wrote:
> I will feed just a chicken thigh/breast meat for a week and see how
> they do, they woke me up 3 times last nigh to go outside.

Messages in this topic (28)
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9.4. Re: So I decided to switch
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:58 pm ((PST))

>if the dog eats dry-cooked bone, or very dense bones like beef knuckles or cut up cow femurs that are too hard to chew but small enough to swallow. In most cases, though, they just come back up again.

Hi.Before switching to rawfeeding,I made mistake;feeding hambone from Christmas Dinner which I thought that would be big Jack pot for her. Then,next day,she pooped golfball-like hard hard poo couple of hours and then,one point of time in the day,her poop went to south;major major diarrhea,and woke us up middle of the night and I had to bath her and crate too...Bad miserable days for her and us.. After the switch and before switch when I started resarching on rawfeeding,I learnt cooked bone was no no and I do not give her any cooked bone anymore..

If dog ate bone and could not digest well enough,you may see bone bits in the poo too while you just switch t o new protin's bone with meat.But it will go away after some times..

yassy

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Messages in this topic (28)
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10. To worry or not to worry?
Posted by: "tobrlaka" tobrlaka@nwi.net tobrlaka
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:14 pm ((PST))

Hi group:
I've been a member for quite a while: I have a 8yo Eskie who has eaten
raw since we got him from rescue, about 6 years ago. He LOVES
anything....he will stand and lick the refrigerator any time of day or
night, hoping, I guess, that magically some new meaty thing will
present itself. He acts like he is always ready to eat. It's almost
sad to not be able to feed him as much as he wants because he tends
towards plump, anyway, and his bum rear leg restricts his exercise, so
definitely a potential to chunkiness. He should weigh about 20-22#,
so he gets about 8oz/day.

We adopted a spaniel mix, maybe 1-2 years old, from the shelter a few
months ago. I've been feeding her raw, as well. She does well with
anything "chicken," although there was some adjustment period, with
her routinely regurgitating the "knuckle" part of drumsticks. She's
past that now, though.

They get some beef, pork, and some turkey, but generally boneless,
(and not very often, due to expense)because she always regurges the
tip of the beef rib (and it sounds like she's bringing up a house when
she does), and I'm afraid pork and turkey bones would be even more
troublesome.

I'd like to take advantage of the anticipated post-holiday sales of
pork and turkeys....but aren't turkey bones just too splintery for 20#
dogs? I never get them pork necks, either, because here, they are
sold in small bony chunks, and again, I'm shy of giving her that size
of bone, figuring she'll do the 12-hour later herking fest, or hurt
herself with a bone that "solid."

I'd like them to get more variety....but I'm shy of the bony parts,
aside from chicken........

I'd appreciate any words of wisdom........thanks already.
Brenda
Jack the Eskie
Sophie the Faux Eskie

Messages in this topic (1)
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11.1. Introducing the raw food diet! HELP!!!
Posted by: "Jerri Buiting" jerribuiting@yahoo.com jerribuiting
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:14 pm ((PST))

Hi~

I decided to start Mocha on the raw food diet and went out and bought a
couple of chickens and an extra package of liver/gizzards since most everyone suggested I start out with chicken. I determined the weight of food to start out as 1.1 pounds, so I put a couple ounces of gizzards and the rest the cut up chicken. She won't
touch it. She took it out of my hand and promptly dropped it on the floor and walked away. I tried feeding it to her by hand for a few minutes and she just got frustrated (so did I)!

I've looked at a few more entries and sites. Some say to start introducing the raw diet with cooked meat and cooking it less and less every day. I'm worried about the bones then -- do I grind them up and cook them with the meat since cooked chicken bones are what is bad?

Most of what I read indicates that dogs LOVE the raw food--of course, why could I have it easy? Any ideas out there?

Thanks~

Jerri & Mocha
._,___

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Messages in this topic (28)
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11.2. Re: Introducing the raw food diet! HELP!!!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:23 pm ((PST))

Jerri,

Just put it in a bag in warm water. What part did you give her? You can
slice into the meat in several spots to give her a starting point...even
smash some Parmesan down into the slices. Chicken is really bland compared
to kibble so you just need to "spice it up" a bit. And if you have any
kibble in the house, get it out there! :))

You could quickly sear the outside but you don't want to cook the chicken
and certainly not bone!

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Jerri Buiting" <jerribuiting@yahoo.com>
> I decided to start Mocha on the raw food diet and went out and bought a
> couple of chickens and an extra package of liver/gizzards since most
everyone suggested I start out with chicken. I determined the weight of food
to start out as 1.1 pounds, so I put a couple ounces of gizzards and the
rest the cut up chicken. She won't
> touch it. She took it out of my hand and promptly dropped it on the floor
and walked away. I tried feeding it to her by hand for a few minutes and
she just got frustrated (so did I)!

Messages in this topic (28)
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