[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12401

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: I NEED SOME HELP FROM ALL YOU EXPERT OUT THERE!!!
From: tizianaruff

2a. Pork shoulder part deux
From: ncrnrgrl
2b. Re: Pork shoulder part deux
From: Andrea

3a. OFF TOPIC - freezers
From: esmolensky
3b. Re: OFF TOPIC - freezers
From: Dave Teetz

4a. Re: Can teeth wear down from feeding raw frozen?
From: Andrea
4b. Re: Can teeth wear down from feeding raw frozen?
From: mz_boomer2

5a. Re: duck heads and small stuff
From: Andrea

6a. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
From: Andrea

7a. Re: Salmon
From: Andrea

8a. OT Cruciate ligament tear -- OT - private responses requested
From: krheintgen
8b. Re: OT Cruciate ligament tear -- OT - private responses requested
From: becky brooks

9a. Re: Goose and other game
From: costrowski75

10a. Re: links on raw
From: Brandi Bryant

11a. Re: Is sockeye salmon w/alder smoke okay to feed...?
From: costrowski75

12a. Re: fasting question -- Can we call it "not eating?"
From: Nora Lenz

13. Re: Livers
From: Sai Simonson

14a. runny stools
From: Patricia Cone
14b. Re: runny stools
From: Andrea
14c. Re: runny stools
From: Andrea
14d. Re: runny stools
From: Andrea

15a. vomiting
From: children8_2000
15b. Re: vomiting
From: Andrea

16. posting
From: juliarna

17a. blood in stools
From: juliarna

Messages
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1a. Re: I NEED SOME HELP FROM ALL YOU EXPERT OUT THERE!!!
Posted by: "tizianaruff" queentiz@msn.com tizianaruff
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:28 am ((PST))

I did that with the chicken back..won't you know it...the little
stinker eat it right up, drooling even. Her stomach is settled. So
like you guys said I will keep her on this diet for the next month.
Just chicken back if necessary and then add little things one at the
time. But I REFUSE to set her table with flowers. (although if she
keep on kissing me like that...I can't refuse). Thank you
guys...You're the best!!! This whole group is just awesome. Thank you
also from Callie and Gossimer..here they are

http://queentiz.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!4AB4FE856EB09012!336/

Tiziana

> or even a quick searing in a pan just to brown the outside to see if
she'll eat
> (that's the only way one of my males will eat liver).
> --
> Tina Berry - MT
> Kriegshund German Shepherds
> Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
> www.kriegshundgsds.com

Messages in this topic (7)
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2a. Pork shoulder part deux
Posted by: "ncrnrgrl" jcraver1@nc.rr.com ncrnrgrl
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:28 am ((PST))

HI all,
I recently read some posts about pork shoulder and then yesterday saw a
local store had pork shoulder on sale for .98/pound. I went out and
picked some up yesterday, but noticed they have a pretty thick layer of
skin (?) still on them... do you recommend I cut this off or leave it
on? My dogs (gratefully) have eaten everything I have ever put in front
of them, not a blink even with their first go at whole prey. I'm not
doubting that they will eat it, just wondering if there is anything I
need to be prepared for if i feed with the skin on?

Thanks all,
Jen C.

Messages in this topic (2)
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2b. Re: Pork shoulder part deux
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:40 am ((PST))

It is skin and a good amount of fat. If your dogs have shown a
sensitivity to fat in the past you might want to trim some off. If
you've never had a problem with them I say leave it on. The skin is a
good "toothbrush" for the dogs since it is pretty thick and strong.
Besides, it is a nightmare to try and cut it off even with super sharp
knives.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ncrnrgrl" <jcraver1@...> wrote:

> I went out and picked some up yesterday, but noticed they have a
> pretty thick layer of skin (?) still on them... do you recommend I
> cut this off or leave it on?

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. OFF TOPIC - freezers
Posted by: "esmolensky" esmolensky@yahoo.com esmolensky
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:47 am ((PST))

I was wondering if anyone had chest freezers and is it safe to keep
them outside on an uncovered deck or patio. I live in a townhouse in
MD and do not have room inside. Sometimes it gets cold in the winter
and extremely hot and humid in the summer. Any suggestions would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
E & Reagan.

Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: OFF TOPIC - freezers
Posted by: "Dave Teetz" dteetz@gmail.com dteetz
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:34 am ((PST))

I contacted an Appliance shop and asked about getting a refrigerator for the
garage. The sales guy - a friend - advised against it if the garage is not
insulated. In the summer the fridge will have to work to hard to maintain
temp, which when coupled with the AC will kill the wallet on electric.

As for having it outside, I doubt that a freezer is designed to keep
water/elements out, so there could be harmful risks due to the electric
involved.

Hope that helps. I know it's not real technical, but it was enough to
dissuade me from purchasing the fridge. I later bought a 9 cu. ft. freezer
for the basement and that is working perfectly. I'm set for a couple of
months on food at this point.

Dave

On Dec 20, 2007 9:44 AM, esmolensky <esmolensky@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone had chest freezers and is it safe to keep
> them outside on an uncovered deck or patio. I live in a townhouse in
> MD and do not have room inside. Sometimes it gets cold in the winter
> and extremely hot and humid in the summer. Any suggestions would be
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> E & Reagan.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Can teeth wear down from feeding raw frozen?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:48 am ((PST))

My dogs like partially frozen meat during the super hot summers here
in California, but I've never noticed any tooth wear because of it.
Frozen food is pretty solid, but unless you are feeding it straight
out of the deep freeze it shouldn't be hard enough to wear down the
teeth, especially to nubs in a fewm months. Are you sure she isn't
doing any inappropriate chewing during the day? Maybe chewing sticks
or tennis balls?

If it were me I might take her to the vet for a dental check to see
if he sees any problems with her teeth. In the meantime you should
feed only partially frozen meat, so it is still cold and firm but not
frozen solid.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mz_boomer2" <mz_boomer2@...>
wrote:

> my question is can frozen meats eventually wear down teeth? She
> gets chicken 1/4's, RMM of beef, lamb, and fish..sometimes chicken
> feet or pigs feet...I was checking out her teeth and noticed the
> middle back teeth were not as equal to where they had been 2 months
> ago when I was checking on her. In fact, 2 or 3 teeth were worn
> down to nubs and she is only 3 yrs old!

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: Can teeth wear down from feeding raw frozen?
Posted by: "mz_boomer2" mz_boomer2@yahoo.com mz_boomer2
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:44 am ((PST))

Thank you, I will take her to the vet. I am just in a complete
quandry over this. And I will allow her foods to thaw a little more
more before giving them to her.

-Pam & Christine

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> My dogs like partially frozen meat during the super hot summers
here
> in California, but I've never noticed any tooth wear because of
it.
> Frozen food is pretty solid, but unless you are feeding it straight
> out of the deep freeze it shouldn't be hard enough to wear down the
> teeth, especially to nubs in a fewm months. Are you sure she isn't
> doing any inappropriate chewing during the day? Maybe chewing
sticks
> or tennis balls?
>
> If it were me I might take her to the vet for a dental check to see
> if he sees any problems with her teeth. In the meantime you should
> feed only partially frozen meat, so it is still cold and firm but
not
> frozen solid.
>
> Andrea
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mz_boomer2" <mz_boomer2@>
> wrote:
>
> > my question is can frozen meats eventually wear down teeth? She
> > gets chicken 1/4's, RMM of beef, lamb, and fish..sometimes
chicken
> > feet or pigs feet...I was checking out her teeth and noticed the
> > middle back teeth were not as equal to where they had been 2
months
> > ago when I was checking on her. In fact, 2 or 3 teeth were worn
> > down to nubs and she is only 3 yrs old!
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: duck heads and small stuff
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:59 am ((PST))

I would try one and see what he does with it. He might think of it as
a treat or toy and take his time eating it. Though my dogs will gulp
hunks of organ or meatymeat to their own detriment, they actually take
time with something like a chicken foot. I guess they see the feet as
a fun treat and they enjoy grossing people out by slowly chewing the
leg end with the toes sticking out the side of their mouths.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, I was wondering if duck heads would be ok to feed a great dane. I
> know they are ideally to small but they were free and she is a very
> careful eater.

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:10 am ((PST))

> Hocks? What is a hock anyways?

Hocks are part of the leg. Don't limit yourself to hocks, just take
the whole leg if you can.

> Feet? --Yes, if possible still connected to the legs

> Lungs? --Yup

> Tounges? --Oooh, yes, please!

> Hearts? --Aye.

> Testicles?
> Piggy sticks? --Both of these as well

> Offal? Should I take all Offal other than the stomach guts?

Well, you want whatever internal organs they don't keep. If
necessary just in a bucket that you can bag later. Stomach may not
be worth getting, though.

> Brains? Crack the skull apart? Will I be able to grind the brains?

No need to grind brains, they are pretty soft as is. I would take
the whole head, but if your dogs are smaller you might ask to have
the head cut in half, then take the whole thing.

> Snouts? Are they worth anything? Grindable?

They are good for chewing, as long as you don't grind them.

> Meat trimmings? Will they be toooo fatty?
> I dont want to end up with 75 pounds of FAT...

I'd imagine the trimmings are pretty much fat and tendons and such.
Unless you have boney meals to pair, I wouldn't bother with it.

> When I go to my butcher in town he just throws everything in a
> barrell...I think the venison kidneys really give my dog the trots.
> I hope not to have a trotting dog after this pig thing.

Then take it slow with all the new stuff. Don't give a whole meal of
new item, especially not a new organ. Take your time and you'll be
ok.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (13)
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7a. Re: Salmon
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:16 am ((PST))

If it is wild caught, freeze solid for a couple of weeks to be sure.
If it is farmed you can feed away.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "laurajean360" <laurajean101@...>
wrote:
>
> Being in the Pacific Northwest I just found a great source for Salmon
> heads, and backs. BUT I have heard that salmon can be poisonous to
> dogs. Is it safe or not to feed my dogs this salmon and does it
> matter how much, or if it is farmed or wild-caught?

Messages in this topic (25)
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8a. OT Cruciate ligament tear -- OT - private responses requested
Posted by: "krheintgen" krheintgen@comcast.net krheintgen
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:34 am ((PST))

I am looking for someone who has had some experience with a mid-sized
dog with a cruciate ligament tear. Private responses are requested
so as not to clutter the list as this is OT.

My ESS has been limping on a rear leg. I had her to the chiropractor
who can feel instability on the knee and thinks it is a partial tear
in the ligament. But with the heavy muscling of the dog she says she
cannot be sure it is not torn. There was also a lot of adjusting
needed in the hips and sacrum areas

She is on Ligaplax and Traumeel, restricted activity etc. I will
take her back to the chiropractor 1/9/08. She is not in terrible
pain and I have to stop her from going up and down the stairs.

My quandry is surgery or no surgery. She is raw fed and while she
had puppy vacs I do not routinely vaccinate anymore. If it can be
avoided, I would prefer no surgery, but will do it if that is what is
best.

Vet sites of course tell you without surgery it will never be right
and there will be dire consequenses. My chiropractor (who is also a
vet) says she has had luck with partial tears healing with out
surgery, but she wants me to know that surgery is an option.

So, has anyone had a dog with a cruciate ligament injury heal well
without surgery? Anyone had a bad result going without surgery?

Kathy Rheintgen

Messages in this topic (2)
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8b. Re: OT Cruciate ligament tear -- OT - private responses requested
Posted by: "becky brooks" kidcreations1@yahoo.com kidcreations1
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:15 am ((PST))

I am also interested in private responses to this question! Thanks,
Becky Brooks

krheintgen <krheintgen@comcast.net> wrote: I am looking for someone who has had some experience with a mid-sized
dog with a cruciate ligament tear. Private responses are requested
so as not to clutter the list as this is OT.

My ESS has been limping on a rear leg. I had her to the chiropractor
who can feel instability on the knee and thinks it is a partial tear
in the ligament. But with the heavy muscling of the dog she says she
cannot be sure it is not torn. There was also a lot of adjusting
needed in the hips and sacrum areas

She is on Ligaplax and Traumeel, restricted activity etc. I will
take her back to the chiropractor 1/9/08. She is not in terrible
pain and I have to stop her from going up and down the stairs.

My quandry is surgery or no surgery. She is raw fed and while she
had puppy vacs I do not routinely vaccinate anymore. If it can be
avoided, I would prefer no surgery, but will do it if that is what is
best.

Vet sites of course tell you without surgery it will never be right
and there will be dire consequenses. My chiropractor (who is also a
vet) says she has had luck with partial tears healing with out
surgery, but she wants me to know that surgery is an option.

So, has anyone had a dog with a cruciate ligament injury heal well
without surgery? Anyone had a bad result going without surgery?

Kathy Rheintgen

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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9a. Re: Goose and other game
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:37 am ((PST))

"Heather" <newbeginnings06@...> wrote:
>
> Make sure the birds are frozen for three weeks to kill parasites. I
> have heard one week, but I would do three just to be safe. Maybe
> someone else has some experience on this?
*****
I'd be more concerned about errant shot than parasites. But if
parasites are an issue, a week of freezing after the birds are frozen
solid ought to be just fine.

OTOH, if the thought of parasites is greater than the actuality, then
no amount of freezing will resolve the fears. A week is fine but
freeze as long as your comfort level dictates. If that will be "until
hell freezes over" please send me the geese and my dogs will dispatch
them posthaste.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (3)
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10a. Re: links on raw
Posted by: "Brandi Bryant" bbryant573@gmail.com bbryant573
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:56 am ((PST))

>>>>I keep getting ripped apart about dogs being omnivores.....& kibble is
great, I have no proof raw is good, I'm a bad person to feed raw...
ANY current links out there please with substantiated 'evidence' on raw
feeding & benefits & why kibble is not good?>>>>>

I found this yesterday ----they have many, many articles ...take a look -
it might be helpful...

http://www.mypetcarnivore.com/

Good luck!
Brandi

On 12/18/07, T Smith <coldbeach@gmail.com> wrote:
>
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Bartlesville, Ok

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Messages in this topic (8)
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11a. Re: Is sockeye salmon w/alder smoke okay to feed...?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:57 am ((PST))

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:
The fish tag was said the fish isfrom USA not from Chile like Farm
Raised Salmon. I am wondering are they from NWP???
*****
The fishing range of "concern" is from southern Alaska south to the mid-
California coast. The fish caught north of this range in arctic waters
(Bering Sea, Arctic Ocean) are free of the parasite. A good fishmonger
will know the source of his fish. Ask.

If the Sockeye are from "Pacific Northwest" waters and are truly fresh--
never ever frozen--then you might want to deep freeze before feeding.
However. It seems unlikely that you who lives in Virginia would get
PNW salmon fresh, never ever frozen. Out here in California it's
entirely possible; shipped back East? Dubious.

Ask.

Also. Chilean salmon is farmed--there is no wild salmon population in
Chile. The salmon is Atlantic salmon, just as it is in all salmon-
farming operations wherever; and the industry as well as the fish were
introduced to Chile. FWIW, Chilean salmon is considered the "best" of
the various farmed options: less pollution, more room for the salmon to
hang out (the fisheries are off the coast, in deep waters).
Chris O

Messages in this topic (6)
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12a. Re: fasting question -- Can we call it "not eating?"
Posted by: "Nora Lenz" nmlenz@speakeasy.net rawnora
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:13 am ((PST))

Kathy,

A person who uses the terms "fasting" and "starving" interchangeably,
and suggests that there is not much difference between the two,
clearly knows very little about either. Perhaps the reason you
haven't seen anything to change your mind is that you haven't bothered
to look. Check out the links I posted yesterday if you want evidence.
But to imply the evidence isn't there is disingenous, and does a
disservice to the members here who are honestly and earnestly seeking
truth.

You can't make a case against fasting without taking into account the
highly random and irregular feeding patterns of wild dogs, and your
arguments have not done this. A wild dog doesn't *always* gorge
before going without food (which I call "fasting" just for
expedience's sake) -- s/he might only have the chance to eat a mouse
or small bird, and then not eat again for 4-5 days. Given that there
are more small prey animals than large ones available to many species
of wild dog, small meals might actually feature more prominently in
their lives than opportunities to "gorge". Regardless of whether this
is the case, one fact is undeniable: Doing without food is a natural
part of a dog's life, notwithstanding the size of the meal which
precedes the abstinence.

"However most dogs are not sick and yet the benfits of "fasting" are
often discussed or inquired about on this list. As I have stated, in
my opinion, the benefits are from the big meals, not the so-called
"fast." "

Well, I would suggest that most domestic dogs *are* sick, but that's
really beside the question. The kind of fasting that is typically
discussed here is maintenance fasting for asymptomatic dogs, where a
dog is simply not fed for one or two days out of the week, much like
what you do with your dogs. This discussion we're having here is
distinct because it's most likely the first time anyone has ever
suggested or recommended *extended* fasts (4+ days) for the treatment
of acute or chronic symptoms in dogs. In addition to or in
conjunction with dietary improvements, this is the *only* truly
effective approach.

"A dog that refused one meal is said to be "fasting" I do not agree
this is true."

The scenario you describe is not what's being discussed here.
Therapeutic fasting is not determined by whether a dog will choose to
eat if given the opportunity. Fasting for therapeutic purposes is
unilaterally decided upon and directed by the owner/guardian.

Unless a person understands what happens physiologically during a fast
(regardless of the kind of animal that is fasting) and/or experiences
fasting first-hand, it will be difficult for him/her to fully
understand it, or make a cogent argument against it. All that really
exists otherwise is beliefs (which are just unconfirmed ideas, or
strongly-held opinions based on same), misplaced guilt and fear, which
mostly arises from unhealthy emotional attachments to food. The
decision to employ fasting for a sick dog should not involve emotion,
it should be based on logic and evidence. I'll post below a snippet
of one of the articles I linked yesterday, which reports on only a
tiny fraction of the evidence that has been compiled which supports
fasting for the treatment of chronic symptoms in humans.

I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to talk more about fasting.
It is a tool that has too long been ignored by dog owners, to their
detriment (the owners and the dogs!).

Well wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

From "The Health Benefits of Water Fasting" by Stephen Harrod Buhner

"...Fasting has been found to help a number of disease conditions,
often permanently. There have been a number of intriguing clinical
trials and studies treating numerous disease conditions with fasting.
Here are some of those findings.

* In one clinical trial of hypertension and fasting, 174 people with
hypertension were prefasted for 2-3 days by eating only fruits and
vegetables. They then participated in a 10-11 day water only fast,
followed by a 6-7 day post fast in which they ate only a low-fat, low-
sodium vegan diet. Initial blood pressure in the participants was
either in excess of 140 millimeters of mercury (mm HG) systolic or 90
diastolic or both. Ninety percent of the participants achieved blood
pressure less than 140/90 by the end of the trial. The higher their
initial blood pressure the more their readings dropped. The average
drop for all participants was 37/13. Those with stage 3 hypertension
(over 180/110) had an average reduction of 60/17. All those taking
blood pressure medication prior to fasting were able to discontinue
it. Fasting has been shown in a number of trials like this one to be
one of the most effective methods for lowering blood pressure and
normalizing cardiovascular function. Blood pressure tends to remain
low in all those using fasting for cardiovascular disease once fasting
is completed.

* Fasting is exceptionally beneficial in chronic cardiovascular
disease and congestive heart failure, reducing triglycerides,
atheromas, total cholesterol, and increasing HDL levels.

* Fasting has been found effective in the treatment of type II
diabetes, often reversing the condition permanently.

* Because of its long term effects on metabolism, fat stores in the
body, leptin, and disease conditions associated with obesity, fasting
has been found to be one of the most effective treatments for obesity.

* A number of studies have found that fasting is beneficial in
epilepsy, reducing the length, number, and severity of seizures.
Fasting is especially effective for helping alleviate or cure
childhood epilepsy.

* In a 1988 trial of 88 people with acute pancreatitis, fasting was
found better than any other medical intervention. Neither nasogastric
suction or cimetidine were found to produce as beneficial effects as
those from fasting. Symptoms were relieved irrespective of the
etiology of the disease.

* A number of studies have found that fasting is effective for
treating both osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis. Fasting induces
significant antiinflammatory actions in the body and researchers found
decreased ESR, arthralgia, pain, stiffness, and need for medication.

* Autoimmune diseases such as lupus, rosacea, chronic urticaria, and
acute glomerulonephritis have all responded well to fasting.

* Severe toxic contamination has been shown to be significantly helped
with fasting. Clinical trials have found that people poisoned with PCB
experienced "dramatic" relief after 7-10 day fasts.

* Poor immune function improves during fasting. Studies have found
that there is increased macrophage activity, increased cell-mediated
immunity, decreased complement factors, decreased antigen-antibody
complexes, increased immunoglobulin levels, increased neutrophil
bactericidal activity, depressed lymphocyte blastogenesis, heightened
monocyte killing and bactericidal function, and enhanced natural
killer cell activity.

* Other diseases that have responded to fasting are: psychosomatic
disease, neurogenic bladder, psoriasis, eczema, thrombophlebitis,
varicose ulcers, fibromyalgia, neurocirculatory disease, irritable
bowel syndrome, inflammatory bowel disease, bronchial asthma, lumbago,
depression, neurosis, schizophrenia, duodenal ulcers, uterine
fibroids, intestinal parasites, gout, allergies, hay fever, hives,
multiple sclerosis, and insomnia.

* The historically lengthy claim that fasting increases life span is
beginning to garner some support in research literature. Regularly
repeated 4-day fasting has been found to increase the life span in
normal and immunocompromised mice.

* Although the use of fasting in the treatment of cancer is
controversial, there is some emerging data SHOWING that fasting helps
prevent cancer. Intermittent fasting (2 days weekly) has shown an
inhibitory effect on the development of liver cancer in rats.
"

Messages in this topic (15)
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13. Re: Livers
Posted by: "Sai Simonson" saiczarina@comcast.net keikokat
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:13 am ((PST))

Yassy,
Yes, sometimes chicken, sometimes beef. Maybe she is too full?
She liked it before but never wants gizzards or heart.
I am pretty sure she prefers beef.
Thanks for your ideas.

Sai
============================

1>Quick sear
2>serve freeze
3> Mix with raw Egg
4>Mix with Tripe
5> Flavoring the liver with garlic or fish oil

etc??

are you rotating liver between some critters or you keep feeding the
same thing daily??

*~~ SaiCzarina*

Messages in this topic (1)
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14a. runny stools
Posted by: "Patricia Cone" tapenoc4mufflers@yahoo.com tapenoc4mufflers
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:29 am ((PST))

I have been feeding raw now for 8 months, I have 2 labs, Rocky, 12 years and Goldie 11. They are doing pretty well, but Rocky has loose bowels more than firm most of the time. I do not follow a true regiment of 80/10/10. Sometimes they get no bone for several days, when stool turns white.
I live in the city, Ft. Laud., and buy from my local grocery store, Mostly chicken thighs, with bone, necks, gizzards, liver, beef and chicken, kidney, heart, lamb shank once a week, ground beef and pork. I usually mix a variety together. I do feel I may have been feeding too much organ, so will cut back. Too much pork seemed to cause really loose stoolsl, so I add just a little to meal. I feed once a day. My main reason for switching was for their good health. Rocky has a constant ear problem, it has been treated with antibiotics twice. I hoped raw feeding would clear this up, but not to date. Also he seems to be hunched over a little more than usual, like he has a tummy ache. I know the bowels are still loose. Is a trip to the vet a must or can I try a remedy you may suggest. I truly want him comfortable. I do not give any supplements at all, just raw,
Thanks for any advise you may have. I have been reading as many posts as possible to help me. Pat C.

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Messages in this topic (8)
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14b. Re: runny stools
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:46 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Patricia Cone
<tapenoc4mufflers@...> wrote:
>
> I have been feeding raw now for 8 months, I have 2 labs, Rocky, 12
years and Goldie 11. They are doing pretty well, but Rocky has loose
bowels more than firm most of the time. I do not follow a true
regiment of 80/10/10. Sometimes they get no bone for several days,
when stool turns white.
> I live in the city, Ft. Laud., and buy from my local grocery
store, Mostly chicken thighs, with bone, necks, gizzards, liver,
beef and chicken, kidney, heart, lamb shank once a week, ground beef
and pork. I usually mix a variety together. I do feel I may have
been feeding too much organ, so will cut back. Too much pork seemed
to cause really loose stoolsl, so I add just a little to meal. I
feed once a day. My main reason for switching was for their good
health. Rocky has a constant ear problem, it has been treated with
antibiotics twice. I hoped raw feeding would clear this up, but not
to date. Also he seems to be hunched over a little more than usual,
like he has a tummy ache. I know the bowels are still loose. Is a
trip to the vet a must or can I try a remedy you may suggest. I
truly want him comfortable. I do not give any supplements at all,
just raw,
> Thanks for any advise you may have. I have been reading as many
posts as possible to help me. Pat C.
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________

14c. Re: runny stools
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:46 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Patricia Cone
<tapenoc4mufflers@...> wrote:
>
> I have been feeding raw now for 8 months, I have 2 labs, Rocky, 12
years and Goldie 11. They are doing pretty well, but Rocky has loose
bowels more than firm most of the time. I do not follow a true
regiment of 80/10/10. Sometimes they get no bone for several days,
when stool turns white.
> I live in the city, Ft. Laud., and buy from my local grocery
store, Mostly chicken thighs, with bone, necks, gizzards, liver,
beef and chicken, kidney, heart, lamb shank once a week, ground beef
and pork. I usually mix a variety together. I do feel I may have
been feeding too much organ, so will cut back. Too much pork seemed
to cause really loose stoolsl, so I add just a little to meal. I
feed once a day. My main reason for switching was for their good
health. Rocky has a constant ear problem, it has been treated with
antibiotics twice. I hoped raw feeding would clear this up, but not
to date. Also he seems to be hunched over a little more than usual,
like he has a tummy ache. I know the bowels are still loose. Is a
trip to the vet a must or can I try a remedy you may suggest. I
truly want him comfortable. I do not give any supplements at all,
just raw,
> Thanks for any advise you may have. I have been reading as many
posts as possible to help me. Pat C.
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (8)
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14d. Re: runny stools
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:52 am ((PST))

Woah, I think there is a gremilin living in my computer since it just
sent two replies without any of my writing. Sorry about that, all.

Pat, it sounds like Rocky is one of those dogs that just needs more
bone than regular. It sounds like you are swinging from one end of
the spectrum to the other; you see loose stools and add lots of bone,
then see white stools and feed several meaty meals, then back to
loose stools. Maybe it would be helpful to order a case of chicken
backs and add these to regular meals. Have you tried feeding whole
chickens instead of just thighs? Since chicken are higher than 10%
bone that might help regulate him as well.

Once you get him stabalized you can add bits of other foods to his
regular meals and work on finding his bowel tolerance.

Hope that helps a bit.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Patricia Cone
<tapenoc4mufflers@...> wrote:
>
> I have been feeding raw now for 8 months, I have 2 labs, Rocky, 12
> years and Goldie 11. They are doing pretty well, but Rocky has
> loose bowels more than firm most of the time. I do not follow a
> true regiment of 80/10/10. Sometimes they get no bone for several
> days, when stool turns white.

Messages in this topic (8)
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15a. vomiting
Posted by: "children8_2000" children8_2000@yahoo.com children8_2000
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:29 am ((PST))

My girl has been on raw for almost 2 weeks now, she has been doing fine
on her chicken, but today, she vomited. It was yellowish in color with
some bones in it. Can you please tell me what I need to do?
Lynne

Messages in this topic (11)
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15b. Re: vomiting
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:59 am ((PST))

It's ok, this kind of thing happens from time to time. Here are a
couple of things that can cause bile and bone bit vomit(BBBV):

Eating a meal that is heavier on bone than usual. She is vomiting to
get rid of the bone that isn't digesting fast enough.

If she's on a regular feeding schedule she might have determined that
you didn't feed her when her stomach was ready to eat.

She may have eaten a regular portion (maybe a leg quarter) with less
cruching than usual, leaving larger pieces of bone in her stomach.

In any event, there isn't a whole lot for you to do. She got rid of
what was irritating her and I would imagine she's back to normal
now. What you can do is try and see what caused the vomit in the
first place so you can help prevent it next time. FWIW, I was
blessed with BBBV at least every other day for a month or so as I
stumbled through the beginning with my pup.

Andrea

Did she eat a meal that is more boney t

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "children8_2000"
<children8_2000@...> wrote:
>
> My girl has been on raw for almost 2 weeks now, she has been doing
> fine on her chicken, but today, she vomited. It was yellowish in
> color with some bones in it. Can you please tell me what I need to
> do

Messages in this topic (11)
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16. posting
Posted by: "juliarna" juliarna@yahoo.co.uk juliarna
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:05 am ((PST))

Hi I am sorry to be a pain but I am not sure I am post correctly. I
have had some replies (which I thankyou all). But have posted again
this evening about blood in the stools and now cannot find where it is.

I am new to these chat chats and I am not grasping things

Could you tell me what I am doing wrong.

Many Thanks
Juliarna

Messages in this topic (1)
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17a. blood in stools
Posted by: "juliarna" juliarna@yahoo.co.uk juliarna
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:05 am ((PST))

Thanks for your replies.

My dogs are fed

TWO days a complete raw food with meat offal and veges
The rest of the week they get
either tripe beef chicken or lamb. Also twice a week a raw egg yolk.
Twice a week sardines or tuna
Twice a week yoghurt and cottage cheese.
That is the morning meal, on the evening they have chicken carcus or
breat of lamb. Sometimes pigs feet or tails.

The dog I am on about is really hard to keep weight on. I know he is a
lurcher and should be slim but I think he is to slim.
He has been bought up on a raw diet

JULIARNA

Messages in this topic (6)
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