[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12400

There are 24 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Salmon
From: Giselle

2a. Goose and other game
From: Karen Oleson
2b. Re: Goose and other game
From: Heather

3a. Is sockeye salmon w/alder smoke okay to feed...?
From: shefy7
3b. Re: Is sockeye salmon w/alder smoke okay to feed...?
From: Laurie Swanson
3c. Re: Is sockeye salmon w/alder smoke okay to feed...?
From: Yasuko herron
3d. Re: Is sockeye salmon w/alder smoke okay to feed...?
From: ginny wilken
3e. Re: Is sockeye salmon w/alder smoke okay to feed...?
From: Yasuko herron

4a. Re: blood in stools
From: Shannon Parker

5a. Re: Moral support please!
From: Shannon Parker
5b. Re: Moral support please!
From: jennifer_hell

6a. Re: VERY interested in RAW diet for Mastiff.
From: Shannon Parker

7a. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
From: Dawn
7b. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
From: sisterloui
7c. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
From: sisterloui

8a. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with dobe
From: aquilter16

9a. Re: Pigs feet
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

10a. Re: yucky liver
From: Yasuko herron

11. Can teeth wear down from feeding raw frozen?
From: mz_boomer2

12a. Re: weekly schedule
From: Yasuko herron

13.1. Re: picky eater
From: Yasuko herron

14a. reflux problem
From: jennifer_hell

15. Older dog and poop schedule
From: jesperanueva

16a. Re: UK chicken/Moral support please!
From: Eddie Scholten

Messages
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1a. Re: Salmon
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:43 pm ((PST))

Hi, LauraJean!
This topic comes up fairly regularly on the list;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?query=PNW+salmon&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
*http://tinyurl.com/ynpyn4
*
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?query=PNW+salmon&pos=10&cnt=10
*
**http://tinyurl.com/yw58yu
*
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?query=PNW+salmon&pos=20&cnt=10
*http://tinyurl.com/248xkb
*
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?query=PNW+salmon&pos=30&cnt=10
*
**http://tinyurl.com/yuk6xk
*
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?query=PNW+salmon&pos=40&cnt=10
*
**http://tinyurl.com/2eynzj
*
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?query=PNW+salmon&pos=50&cnt=10
*
**http://tinyurl.com/yw7war

*TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 19, 2007 9:27 PM, laurajean360 <laurajean101@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Being in the Pacific Northwest I just found a great source for Salmon
> heads, and backs. BUT I have heard that salmon can be poisonous to
> dogs. Is it safe or not to feed my dogs this salmon and does it matter
> how much, or if it is farmed or wild-caught?
>
> Thanks In Advance-
> LauraJean
>
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (24)
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2a. Goose and other game
Posted by: "Karen Oleson" olesoncrew@verizon.net flyballsanc
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:06 pm ((PST))

My husband will be out hunting geese in the next couple of weeks.

We plan on feeding any goose he might shoot to the dogs and I imagine I will need to remove as much shot (steel) as I can find.

Is there anything else I need to consider (well besides the neighbors) before letting my guys loose on an intact (fully feathered) goose carcass? I am not planning on feeding this to the retriever that will be hunting with him.

Thanks,

-Karen O.

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Messages in this topic (2)
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2b. Re: Goose and other game
Posted by: "Heather" newbeginnings06@gmail.com malignstar
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:06 am ((PST))

Make sure the birds are frozen for three weeks to kill parasites. I
have heard one week, but I would do three just to be safe. Maybe
someone else has some experience on this?

Heather

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Is sockeye salmon w/alder smoke okay to feed...?
Posted by: "shefy7" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:06 pm ((PST))

Hi everyone,

I just got a gift basket and it has smoked sokeye salmon in it. the
ingredients are salmon, salt, and natural alder smoke. i'm vegetarian
so i'm wondering if it's ok for snowy to eat? the fish still is soft
inside the package, just wanted to make sure it's ok to feed...

thanks in advance and happy holidays!

shefy and snowy

Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Re: Is sockeye salmon w/alder smoke okay to feed...?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:24 pm ((PST))

I would probably just feed a bit here and there as a treat, if you
want. There's a huge amount of salt, plus the other added flavorings--
it's not like fresh, unprocessed meat.

Laurie

Messages in this topic (5)
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3c. Re: Is sockeye salmon w/alder smoke okay to feed...?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:21 pm ((PST))

I agree to Laurie. The salt in smoked salmon is big so,I too give my dog probably 2 thumb nail size one time andthat is it and no more. Shewanted to get more when I made Sushi last night but I just offered one little tiny piece..

However,I found that our grocerystore sometimes carry Sock Eye salmon and it is wild not farmed.I still don't know that wild one as well having added color to it but,I bought some last week. It was little more than farmed Alaskan salmon in price-wise but I got wild one.

Is wild salmon as well still having added color to make fresh look very good??

yassy

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Messages in this topic (5)
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3d. Re: Is sockeye salmon w/alder smoke okay to feed...?
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:08 pm ((PST))

On Dec 19, 2007, at 9:33 PM, Yasuko herron wrote:

>
> Is wild salmon as well still having added color to make fresh
> look very good??
>

No, there is no added coloring necessary for wild fish. The natural
color develops with muscle activity. The farmed fish are so crowded
together that they cannot swim freely, and so they stay pale. The
coloring is added to the fishes' food while the fish are still alive.

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

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Messages in this topic (5)
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3e. Re: Is sockeye salmon w/alder smoke okay to feed...?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:06 am ((PST))

>No, there is no added coloring necessary for wild fish. The natural
color develops with muscle activity.

Hi,Ginny.Thank you for your response.Yes,I do remember Chris has told that the more animal moves the muscle meat colr gets darker or reddish.And, I noticed that farm raised salmon was having more fat than wild caught salmon,too.

I was thinking maybe not added color but I was curious so I did ask. Good thing to know that is with Natural color.I think if I could get Sock eye Wild caught Salmon was on counter, I should get it then. The fish tag was said the fish isfrom USA not from Chile like Farm Raised Salmon. I am wondering are they from NWP???

> The coloring is added to the fishes' food while the fish are still alive.

Wow..I did not know that.I was wondering how they add color to fresh but it washowit was?? I did not think about it too.

I got one more wiser than today for tomorrow,lol.
Thank you Ginny.

yassy,who still has 2 more cookies to make to finish my 12 christmas cookie plan..

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Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: blood in stools
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:24 pm ((PST))

Hi Juliarna,

When I switched my dogs...and was figuring out what worked, my grey had blood in her stools as well as vomiting bone fragments. I added more meat, and found that chopping up her food helped. I know, on this site, it's looked down upon chopping up the meat, but I still give her one feeding whole, and the other chopped up. Haven't had a problem since. Her teeth are still amazing, and she looks great. My dogo eats his meals whole and loves it...no problems.
Do what works for your dog. I've found that I feed my 2 dogs in completly different ways..what works for each of them. Every animal is different...but bottom line...try more meat..they aren't going to get blood from that.

Good luck and Happy Holidays!

Shannon

juliarna <juliarna@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Could you please tell me why one of my dogs when having bones for
> several days has blood in his stools. When I stop the bones the blood
> goes.
>
> What else could I feed. If I keep him on meat and veg he needs such a
> lot of meat just to keep weight on him.

Juliarna

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Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. Re: Moral support please!
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:24 pm ((PST))

Hi Sarah,

I agree with what everyone else has posted since you're original post, but I thought I would share my experiences with raw (been on for over a year now). My Dogo, from time to time (I'm talking once every few months) will throw up his raw food within 30 mins. It's usually because he's choked it down quickly and didnt' take the time to chew. I know, my bad for feeding him pieces that are too small. He is a pig though, and will choke down a half chicken in the time it takes you to blink. I never worry, and just make sure I keep an eye on him so that he has to take the time to eat slowly. Think about it, when you eat something too big, too fast...don't you feel like throwing up? I know I do...small stomach I guess.

Keep and eye on it...if it continues, fast him...that usually settles any problems.

Shannon

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Messages in this topic (13)
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5b. Re: Moral support please!
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:06 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, zcdz@... wrote:
>
> FYI some chicken producers use dye in their chicken. The same
producer can
> sell under many different brands to different stores.

AFAIK here in Europe chicken is neither enhanced nor dyed.

Jennifer (not from the UK, but Germany)

Messages in this topic (13)
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6a. Re: VERY interested in RAW diet for Mastiff.
Posted by: "Shannon Parker" mrbatisse@yahoo.ca mrbatisse
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:24 pm ((PST))

I'm not sure who posted the original post, but I have an Argentine Dogo on Raw. If you have any questions, feel free to email me off list at mrbatisse@yahoo.ca. I have noticed a huge difference in my Dogo since starting a year ago...he's 9 going on 3!

Shannon

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Messages in this topic (10)
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7a. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
Posted by: "Dawn" draine9543@gmail.com dawnsdogs2004
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:10 pm ((PST))

Sorry gang I am back....LOL
Decided I need a list.
I need gloves! ROFL
Hocks? What is a hock anyways?
Feet?
Lungs?
Tounges?
Hearts?
Testicles? (eeewwww)
Piggy sticks? (eeeeeeewwwww)
Offal? Should I take all Offal other than the stomach guts?
Brains? Crack the skull apart? Will I be able to grind the brains?
Snouts? Are they worth anything? Grindable?
Meat trimmings? Will they be toooo fatty?
I dont want to end up with 75 pounds of FAT...
What if I order a 60 pound case of beef hearts
and make a mix....

Someone who has done this before, please email me a list.
I know the Amish will help me identify the parts.

When I go to my butcher in town he just throws everything in a
barrell...I think the venison kidneys really give my dog the trots.
I hope not to have a trotting dog after this pig thing.

Thank you ~~Dawn~~

Messages in this topic (12)
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7b. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
Posted by: "sisterloui" habershon@aol.com sisterloui
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:18 am ((PST))

Hi Dawn,

It might be worth while asking what parts of the pigs they do throw
away and work it from there.

Pigs were home raised and slaughtered quite often where I live and
the saying goes "the only thing you cant eat on a pig is the squeak"

We (in the uk) eat pigs trotters, chitterlings, pig bag, stomach
lining, brawn, boiled pigs head etc in fact MOST of the pig (grin) so
you may not be dealing with many parts of the pig that are actually
thrown away.Even the blood is used to make "black pudding"

I get pigs trotters from my butchers and my father often pinches one
or two to roast for his supper saying its a crying shame to give them
to my dogs LOL.

An awful lot of cultural differences I suppose.

I'm afraid I know very little about the Amish and their lifestyle but
I reckon it will be a very efficient one, using preserving and
storing anything edible.

I look forwards to hearing about your experiences.

Best wishes,
Jane

Messages in this topic (12)
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7c. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
Posted by: "sisterloui" habershon@aol.com sisterloui
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:18 am ((PST))

((sorry if this is a duplicate posting...aol crashed ...again LOL ))

Hi there,

It may be worth asking what part of the pigs they will actually be
throwing away.

Pigs used to be slaughtered where I live and very very little was
thrown away.

It may be a cultural thing but here in the uk trotters, stomach
lining, lungs, testes, intestines (used as sausage casings) brains
made into brawn and even blood (made into black pudding) are
regularly eaten.

The only thing i can remember not being used are the stomach, bowel
and intestine "contents".

If I get pigs trotters for my dogs my father often pinches a few to
roast for supper.

The only thing not edible on a pig is the "squeak"

I know very little about the Amish but I think they would be as
efficient in the raising and butchery of live stock. You may be
surprised at how few leftovers there actually are.

Good luck, and i look forwards to hearing about your experience.
Best wishes,
Jane
(sisterloui)

Messages in this topic (12)
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8a. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with dobe
Posted by: "aquilter16" aquilter16@hotmail.com aquilter16
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:21 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "aquilter16" <aquilter16@...> wrote:
>Just want to give a big thank you to all that responded to my cry for
advice. Lots of great information and support out there. Hannah is
back to normal now that I realize I am feeding way to much. Will make
sure she is normal for a few weeks and begin adding some variety.
Thanks again. Jill and Hannah.

> MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE SIGN YOUR MESSAGES.
>
>
> Hi, I have a 5 month old female dobe and would like to correspond with
> anybody that has experience with raw feeding this breed. She has been

>

Messages in this topic (9)
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9a. Re: Pigs feet
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:21 pm ((PST))

Mine are great danes, and love their pigs feet, for treats and meal times. And they eat all the other stuff your husband doesn't like too:) And remember, the more time the dogs have with thier food, the more time your husband has with his wife in the hot tub:)
I'm just saying
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (24)
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10a. Re: yucky liver
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:22 pm ((PST))

>There is less and less interest in liver lately

Hi. I think that force feeding is not something Il ike to do to my dog.I rather like my dog eats it with open paws.did you try many tricks to feed it??such as....

1>Quick sear
2>serve freeze
3> Mix with raw Egg
4>Mix with Tripe
5> Flavoring the liver with garlic or fish oil

etc??

are you rotating liver between some critters or you keep feeding the same thing daily??

I thought that your dog may have trouble with

1>livers' texture or taste
2>livers' smell
which you maybe able to fix with above tricks

Or

3> simply does not like chicken liver at all,which you can try other critter's liver if it was so.

I usually feed organ/giblet bag as side fish so,in a week,palette gets different thing.That could help.If chicken liver was not fed all the time but once a day or something,dog may accept it with open paws.

Here is my side dish menu plan

Sunday;Chicken gizzard and Tripe
Monday;Turkey gizzard and Tripe
tueesday;chicken heart and
wednesday;Turkey heart and Egg
tursday;chicken liver OR turkey liver (alternating weekly)
friday;pork liver and kidney and Egg
saturday;Beef liver and kidney

she hates Pork liver but with raw Egg mized in,she gubbles down,so,problem solved.

also, I recently start feeding Frog leg along with Fish. first try of Frog leg,since it was new andsmell funny to her,I guess,and shelicked quite bit,bit it andspit it out and stare.she managed to eat 70% part of Frog leg but could not eat last 30% raw frog leg.
I quick seared it andshe gubblesdown and was looking for more. From start to finish of 1 plain frog leg,it took her 15 minutes.

Second try,I was not sure if she still need searor not but gave leg raw state anddecided to try and see.She had some hesitation but ate without mt help all,so,no searing was needed on that time.

Third try,she she seemed more accustomed to taste and ate it ok,not as enthoustic as to chicken feet but sheate all without my help of searing so,it is a big improvement.

I think that some food items need owners patient and tweaking but,if one gives the dog time,eventually,they would eat it.

As for pilling, if pill was bitter,dog may not like to take it willingly.so, bit of peanut butter or yogurt cheese(just strained yogurt overnight in fridge) does trick.


yassy

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Messages in this topic (2)
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11. Can teeth wear down from feeding raw frozen?
Posted by: "mz_boomer2" mz_boomer2@yahoo.com mz_boomer2
Date: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:22 pm ((PST))

Hi -

My girl lab mix (30lbs) has been eating raw since last April. But she
has always preferred to eat her meats straight from the freezer. She
seems to get more quality gnawing time out of it. And since we
started her out that way when 1st introduced....she just continues to
prefer her meats that way ..and I was just happy that she was eating
it! My boy lab mix (40lbs) won't eat it in any condition until after
he's seen his sister having fun, then he feels left out, then will
eat.

But, my question is can frozen meats eventually wear down teeth? She
gets chicken 1/4's, RMM of beef, lamb, and fish..sometimes chicken
feet or pigs feet...I was checking out her teeth and noticed the
middle back teeth were not as equal to where they had been 2 months
ago when I was checking on her. In fact, 2 or 3 teeth were worn down
to nubs and she is only 3 yrs old!

I can only remember a time when I didn't know any better and gave her
one of those store bought femur bones (a tooth-wrecker)when she was a
year old and watched her happily gnaw on that one for almost a year,
but didn't seem to notice her teeth being affected by it.. I
eventually threw that out when it got down to a hard & sharp stick.

Will she be okay? Or did I mess her up by not paying attention? I am
near to tears here..any thoughts would be a appreciated.

Thank you
Pam, Christine, Halo, Sniffles & FiFi

Messages in this topic (1)
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12a. Re: weekly schedule
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:06 am ((PST))

>1 chicken hind quarter

Hi. I think many people on this list is not having weekly menu and follow it and ..wahtever available they feed,I think.

But,I have some rough routin. I alternate with poultry and red meat to feed and fish jump in now and then.I rotate poultry giblet bag items and some livers in a week.

I have 4 days of fish meal day combo with other meat.Half of them are canned fish since I do not find sardine or mackerral fresh.The other half are whatever looks good on fish counter.

In fact,today,palette had Mahi Mahi. She seemed to like it.She had that,andTurkey heart and Mutton Rib with added meat.

Tomorrow,she gets chicken and mutton and chicken liver.

I think that red meat, poultry ,fish mixed in diet would be good,but not on heavy on poultry due high omega6

>2 pork neck bones

Are you feeding with added meat? Neck maybe need more meat to that meal if you were not adding meat to it.

>3 organ meat (chicken liver, beef liver or kidney)

Are you feeding organ only??

>4 chicken hind quarter
>5 hamburger or stewmeat
If you could get roast or Flank steak or something that require chews,that would be better.

>6 pork neck bones
>7 beef heart

> I found some frozen whole sardines in a bag but haven't fed fish before.

Lucky you,you can start from sardine to introduce fish. Sardine is one of the omega3 rich fish and good one. If you had Dalmatian dog,then,not recommended to feed sardine all the time because of purine in it.But it is a good fish.

good luck,

yassy

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Messages in this topic (3)
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13.1. Re: picky eater
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:06 am ((PST))

>they will eat the fresh over the frozen any day!

Hi,Chelsea. Recently, when I tried to buy a whole Tuirkey I recognised difference between Frozen and fresh one. I noticed that fresh one has just retained water to some% but Frozen one was enhanced with broth or flavoring.

Maybe dog likes meat without enhancement.

I am not sure if it issame with chicken or not. I noticed that ground Turkey for example has flavoring and I don't care for it. I found out I can eat Turkey meat though.It could be it.

I wonder why it is hard to find meat without enhancement in Turkey category for human too. turkey cutlet iswith broth and ground Turkey is with Flavoring and nothing like the one with beef or pork..My husband does not like Turkey so,rarely Turkey in our house except palette's whole Turkey that iswith retained water..

yassy

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14a. reflux problem
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:06 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Amy Maywald" <amy1k@...> wrote:
>She will bark and cry to go out anywhere between midnight and 4am to
>eat grass, which she will usually throw it up if I let her eat to her
>hearts content. Her stomach makes some very loud noises during the
>gulps

that's exactly as it was for Mandy, when it was worse (it's pretty
benign today, compared to that, she never throws up anymore).Timing is
still the same. but she only needs to eat some grass, has no pain, and
it's over fast.

>She is being treated by a homeopathic vet. She's UTD on blood tests,
>they would have seen issues with pancreatitis if she had any, right?

I'd say the homeopathic vet would have talked to you about it, if he'd
suspect it to be pancreatitis. In my case the vet said it didn't sound
like it, but did run some blood tests to calm me down. ;-)Best ask
your vet about what he/she thinks.

> I'd be tempted to try your trick though!

I'm going to try healing earth/ clay next time she has a bout. It
helps many people with heartburn, and I know quite a lot of people
that give it to their dogs in the same situation. Here's a link in
English I found: http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/clay.htm
I hope it will work.

Jennifer with Mandy in Germany

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15. Older dog and poop schedule
Posted by: "jesperanueva" jesperanueva@yahoo.com jesperanueva
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:18 am ((PST))

Hi everyone!
I can't even begin to tell you how the topics posted on this site
has helped me . I have a 12 y/o min. schnauzer and am so worried that
his age will have an affect on how well he adjusts to the RAW diet. I
have heard people say that he will be pooping less but is there a
rough estimate on how often I should expect him to poop? Once a day
and how many days should I let go by before thinking he is
constipated? He isn't having a problem at the time but I know poop
has tell tale signs of health so just wanted to know for early
detection ^^ =)

Thnx in advance for helping a newb!
Jane

Messages in this topic (1)
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16a. Re: UK chicken/Moral support please!
Posted by: "Eddie Scholten" shirl-ed@hotmail.com shirley11964
Date: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:18 am ((PST))

Hi Sarah,

I'm sure the fresh, raw chicken in UK stores is just as it should be, but you will more likely find the frozen chicken parts to have 'added water' (e.g. packs of frozen chicken breasts) and I think it's that innocent-sounding 'water' that has the nasties in it. But do check anyway!

Shirley

To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.comFrom: hecarte@hotmail.comDate: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:52:10 +0000Subject: [rawfeeding] Re: Moral support please!

As far as I know the chicken is just chicken - I don't know if raw fresh chicken is enhanced in England, but I will ask at the supermarket.Sarah (UK)

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