[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12406

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Pork shoulder part deux
From: ncrnrgrl
1b. Re: Pork shoulder part deux
From: spricketysprock

2a. Re: Ok - I'm about ready to go for it!
From: carnesbill
2b. Re: Ok - I'm about ready to go for it!
From: jhusselstein

3. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with Dobe
From: Michael Moore

4a. Re: Where do you get your meat?
From: carnesbill
4b. Re: Where do you get your meat?
From: Giselle

5a. Re: So I decided to switch
From: Andrea
5b. Re: So I decided to switch
From: cutensexyb89

6.1. Re: Newbie Intro
From: Andrea
6.2. Re: Newbie Intro
From: Giselle

7a. Re: New Girl on the Block....
From: Andrea
7b. Re: New Girl on the Block....
From: Giselle
7c. Re: New Girl on the Block....
From: Tina Berry

8a. Re: What to try next -more specifically
From: Andrea

9a. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
From: Andrea

10a. Re: Ok - I'm about ready to go for it!
From: Giselle

11a. hip dysplasia
From: maradethc
11b. Re: hip dysplasia
From: MORGAN LEWIS
11c. Re: hip dysplasia
From: Janice Daniels
11d. Re: hip dysplasia
From: Giselle

12. Newbie, vegi, raw feeder.
From: lyndam22

13a. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with dobe
From: Laura Atkinson

14. Terminology?
From: cutensexyb89

15a. Re: Older dog and poop schedule
From: jesperanueva

Messages
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1a. Re: Pork shoulder part deux
Posted by: "ncrnrgrl" jcraver1@nc.rr.com ncrnrgrl
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:20 am ((PST))

Thanks very much to all who answered, this board never lets me down!

Jen C.

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Morledzep@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 12/20/2007 6:28:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> jcraver1@... writes:
>
> I went out and
> picked some up yesterday, but noticed they have a pretty thick
layer of
> skin (?) still on them... do you recommend I cut this off or leave
it
> on?
>
>
>
> Jen C.
>
> leave the skin and the fat on.. the skin is tough and is excellent
for
> cleaning teeth, and dogs use fat the way we use carbs for energy..
well.. maybe not
> chemically the same way..
>
> Anyway.. fat and skin are GOOD things.. if it's there feed it.
>
> Catherine R.
>
>
>
> **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
> (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (5)
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1b. Re: Pork shoulder part deux
Posted by: "spricketysprock" jess.hamway@gmail.com spricketysprock
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:18 am ((PST))

I wondered the same thing when I got my dog his first pork shoulder a
few days ago. He LOVES that inch of fat/skin and has so far digested
it fine. It's good for their coats, too :)

Jess & Toby

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: Ok - I'm about ready to go for it!
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:56 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jhusselstein" <jhusselstein@...>
wrote:
>
> So, I think I'll start with the Chicken Backs, although I've never
> seen them in the store, I could probably ask the butcher for
> a few, or hack them off myself and cook the rest for my 2 legged
> children...:)

Hi Jessica,
I've been feeding my 2 Danes raw for 5 years now and have never had
a digestive problem since the first day. You are starting exactly
the right way (almost). :) Chicken backs are difficult to find. I
order mine by the case. A little independent grocer a few miles
from me orders them for me.

> I'm going to break out the old crate, and ( assuming she
> still fits
> in it, ) feed her in there. Probably with a towel to keep down the
> mess.

Unless you have one of those Midwest #99 crates, she is not going to
fit in it.

> So, if Kona is about 120 pounds ( she's kinda scrawny - she won't
> eat more than 3 or so cups of dry food,and you can JUst see all of
> her ribs when she's stretched out..., I should bee feeding
> her about a pound and a half a day, right?

Don't worry so much about numbers and you want to keep her on the
thin side. At 2 she is still a puppy and the next year she will
grow "out" more. Great Danes tend to grow up for 2 years and out
for another year. Don't be too concerned about her build right now
as long as you can't see her hip bone or spine.

> As soon as her tummy is OK with the chicken backs, I'll move to
> leg/thighs, and the organs from the innards, maybe one a day?

I have helped over 100 dogs switch to raw and as long as they
followed my method listed on my web page, not a one of them ever had
digestive upset. The fist few weeks of the diet are not real
nutritious but we have a lifetime to get nutrition in her after her
body adjusts to eating real food. The Danes I have switched have
always eaten 2 chicken backs in the morning and 2 in the evening for
the first week. On the second week feed chicken leg quarters for
the evening meal and continue the backs for the morning meal. The
3rd week, alternate turkey necks with the quarters in the evening
meal. After that add some meaty pieces of other animals to the diet
slowly. I wouldn't feed any organs at all for 2 months.

Start her diet this way and I can almost guarantee no bumps in the
road.

> I'm guessing all that will take me the better part of a month,
> right?

Like Chris says, it will take as long as it takes. I usually say 2
months but I am real conservative with adding new stuff to avoid
digestive upset.

> Am I missing anything? I'm always up for learning how others
> have tried things and applying them to my situation!

Sounds like you have it down pretty well.

Good luck. Remember, don't rush ... you have a lifetime to feed
her. Start slow and in a couple of months you will have her on a
real nutritious diet. I'm guessing that in a year, you are going to
be trying to figure out how to get her to loose weight. :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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2b. Re: Ok - I'm about ready to go for it!
Posted by: "jhusselstein" jhusselstein@yahoo.com jhusselstein
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:54 am ((PST))

--The Danes I have switched have
always eaten 2 chicken backs in the morning and 2 in the evening for
the first week. On the second week feed chicken leg quarters for
the evening meal and continue the backs for the morning meal. The
3rd week, alternate turkey necks with the quarters in the evening
meal. After that add some meaty pieces of other animals to the diet
slowly. I wouldn't feed any organs at all for 2 months.

Oh - AWESOME! Thanks, Bill - Your site was one of the first that got
me interested in Raw - This is JUST what I was hoping for, a nice
"raw switchover menu plan"! Now I'm going to start asking around to
get the chicken backs by the case - and I'll maybe toss her an extra
little piece of boneless breast if she gets too plugged...

I'll be asking about the turkey necks in a few weeks!

Jessica

Messages in this topic (7)
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3. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with Dobe
Posted by: "Michael Moore" m-tak@sbcglobal.net annemoore2000
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:17 am ((PST))

>>I'm getting a Dobermann pup in Feb'08 and was wondering if anyone had
advice on raw feeding a young pup?<<

CG -- you feed a puppy no differently than an adult, except you feed smaller meals, and more often. I weaned my litter this year onto raw, and fed them chicken for about a week, then started introducing different proteins immediately. By six weeks, they were eating all of the split chicken breasts, including the bone. By eight weeks, they had eaten pork, beef heart, fish, venison, elk, and turkey in addition to the chicken.
I fed them four times daily until four months of age, then three times daily until six months, and now the two who live here are eating twice daily and will continue to do so until they're about a year old.

-- Anne and the PWC and one goofy GSD rescue and a silly Golden rescue

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Messages in this topic (1)
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4a. Re: Where do you get your meat?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:17 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "francesdrew" <francesdrew@...>
wrote:
>
I have always had good luck at small independent grocery stores (not
chain stores). I go in and talk to the meat manager in person and
have him special order me stuff. He can add it to his regular order
and I am there to pick it up when it comes in.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (14)
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4b. Re: Where do you get your meat?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:53 am ((PST))

Hi, Frances!
The Lis List can give you some terrific ideas;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/139618*

*Post #139618*
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 21, 2007 12:25 AM, francesdrew <francesdrew@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I am looking for new ideas of where to get meat/bones for my 3 large
> dogs.
>

> <snip>
>
> So...what kinds of meat do you feed and where do you get it...especially
> if it is an
> "unusual" meat.
>
> Thanks,
> Frances
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (14)
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5a. Re: So I decided to switch
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:36 am ((PST))

> while they were on Canidae as a treat they would get raw beef
> bones, hearts and turkey necks. So I guess I got to excited because
> I thought they were "used" to having raw food

Well, just start slow and see how they adjust. If you go a week with
chicken and no digestive upset, add another protein and so on. Just
don't add more than one protein at a time and hold off on organ for a
while.

> I want to supplement with an egg a day, is that ok?

You aren't really supplementing with an egg so much as just giving an
egg. As far as I know, there's nothing special about an egg that
needs to be given. My dogs can't have more than an egg every other
day without geting sulfurous farts, you mileage may vary.

> What do you use for treats? My dogs compete in agility and I'm
> pretty sure you cant bring raw food.

Use whatever you already use. Treats are by definition something
special. As long as you don't use gobs and gobs of treats you can
give anything you want.

> Also I have heard pork isn't great.

Sez who? Pork is fantastic! It gets a bad wrap, but I assure you it
is a great cheap red meat that is free of all the old school diseases
that everyone talks about.

> It is a little distressing when I look online for info and see anti
> raw sites, some have pics of dogs choking to death on bones, I was a
> little taken back.

Well, truth be told the "dangers" of feeding dogs a species
appropriate diet are way overblown. There are 10,000 plus members
here who feed their pets a raw diet. If choking to death on
appropriate raw bones was common, you'd hear about it from us.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (9)
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5b. Re: So I decided to switch
Posted by: "cutensexyb89" cutensexyb89@yahoo.com cutensexyb89
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:47 am ((PST))

EDITED BY MODERATOR. PLEASE TRIM YOUR MESSAGES!

Thank you
You all are so helpful
I think I will stick to chicken for a week or 2, but since they have
already been getting ribs 2-3 times a week, do you think they can have
them with their chicken?
This morning they each got a chicken thigh, is that enough? Should I
give them a egg or a rib? I think I went to quickly yesterday and gave
them a bellyache, I am going to stay away from the pork and heavy
meats for a few weeks.
I keep reading that it is best to give them actual carcasses, but my
girls are so small they don't need that much food, can I get a chicken
or a rabbit and cut it into fourths?
Muscle meats are just boneless meats? Correct?
So after there bodies adjust to this, I could give them a chicken
thigh, piece of heart or live and a piece of boneless chicken breast
and that would even cover the rmb's muscle and organ for the day?
Also do you mix proteins? Could I do beef shoulder with chicken breast?
Thank you
Madie

Messages in this topic (9)
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6.1. Re: Newbie Intro
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:01 am ((PST))

> I have tried them on lamd ribs and chunks of beef but whenever I
> try to inroduce lumps of red meat they get violent diarrhoea. Am I
> going to fast for their tummies?

Sounds like it. Really the easiest way to switch is to give whole
body parts from one protein source at a time. Feeding ground meats,
fatty boney parts, and meaty meat separately makes it pretty hard for
the dog to get the stomach in gear. I'd suggest using chicken
quarters instead and once you have a good stable poo schedule start
adding in other meats.

> Some say 10% chicken wings 10% offal and 80% meat, Some say 60%
> chicken wings, 10% offal and 30% meat. I am reaaly confused.

Well, there's your problem. Forget lone chicken wings, forget a lot
of the percentages, too. Just keep in mind "mostly meat, some bone,
and some organ" If you want you can separate them into 80% meat, 10%
bone, 10% organ. You should feed bones covered in meat, like a bone
in roast or a whole chicken, not just a wing or a neck. This is all
much easier than other sites would have you think.

> At the moment my 7kg westies get 50g ground mince with bone in the
> morning with 15g offal & 1 chicken wing in the evening. My 17kg
> aussie gets 100 ground mince with bone in the morning with 40g of
> offal & 2 chicken wings and 100g ground mince with bone in the
> evening.

Everything can be much simpler if you start thinking about balance
over time instead of day by day. You can feed through chicken
quarters one day and then feed organ once a week, or a smidge each
day, or whatever you feel like. The stools will probably even out a
lot if you have things mixed in meals since offal tends to make loose
stools while chicken wings will make crumbly ones.

> They all seem sable in weight at this amount but I would like to
> introduce some more variety.How do I do this with out upsetting
> there tummies.

When you add a new protein, start with adding a bit to a food they
are good with. As you go, increase the new and decrease the old.
This will help their stomachs ease into the new stuff.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (31)
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6.2. Re: Newbie Intro
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:08 am ((PST))

Hi, Jo!
Welcome to the raw side!

A lot of other websites have books, meat and supps they want to sell you!

We are a list of raw feeders, over 10,000 strong, who have no axes to grind,
we just sincerely want to help others to learn how to use their common sense
to feed a species appropriate whole prey model diet to their own dogs!

Andrea gave you some great advice that I totally agree with!

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (31)
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7a. Re: New Girl on the Block....
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:08 am ((PST))

> problem is that it is has already been butchered into roasts, so no
> bone or organs. How can I add these to the diet

Venison is great, but it is a more "rich" meat than chicken, so it
might create loose stools. You can either start with chicken and add
in the venison in a few weeks or you can find a source for something
boney like chicken backs and add that to the venison meals.
Remember, loose stools aren't a bad thing, they just really freak
humans out. If it were me, I'd just start with the venison added to
boney parts.

> 2) I thought one was NEVER to give chicken bones to dogs because
> of fear that they break and lodge in their throats?

As others have said, cooked bones are the bad ones, not raw. As long
as you don't feed bare bones your dog will have no problem getting
them down.

> 3) To confirm what I've already read --- we are to feed 2-3% of a
> dogs weight, split up into a couple of meals?

Yes on the percentage. I feed older pupies and adults just once a
day or less. It allows you to feed bigger more engaging meals.

> 4) Supplements: Is it ok to give human supplements of flaxseed
> oil and Omega 3's?

A good raw diet doesn't need supplements. If anything you can add
some fish body oil for the O3's if you don't have access to grassfed
animals. One capsule a day per 20lbs of dog will do fine.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (6)
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7b. Re: New Girl on the Block....
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:26 am ((PST))

Hi, Jerri!
Nonsense! You CAN do this, its not rocket science, its just
using your common sense to feed your dog the way he was meant to eat.

On Dec 20, 2007 11:49 PM, Jerri Buiting <jerribuiting@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> WOW -- not sure I can do this either -- I can definitely relate to
> the WUSS girl!
>

> <snip>
>

> This is a 'guess' on my part with
> regards to my 5-year old Chow who has started itching and losing hair
> over the last couple of months. Vet thought it was seasonal
> allergies and that they would go away once the cold weather started.
> After 3 shots and cold weather definitely setting in, we aren't any
> better. So....we're starting out on our own!
>

> **** There's food allergies, and there's environmental allergies, only
> some of which are seasonal - look at what you are using in the home,
> cleaning chemicals, personal cleansers, perfumes; used on yourself, other
> family members, on the dog, sprayed in the air, new carpeting, new bedding,
> the list goes on and on. Don't forget the outside environment; lawn
> treatments by you, or your neighbors, chemicals used by groomers, treats
> given by well meaning friends, neighbors, family that doesn't live with
> you. It may not be something you just started using, sensitivities can be
> acquired. It is often beneficial to eliminate all harsh cleaning chemicals,
> and use white vinegar, baking soda, and fragrance free personal items. ****
>

> First, I'll admit my naivety when talking about chicken. I'm hearing
> that chicken and beef top the list when thinking about food
> allergies, so I should start out with something brand new. I have a
> freezer full of venison that is about a year old that we were going
> to throw out, so I thought I'd start with it.....problem is that it
> is has already been butchered into roasts, so no bone or organs. How
> can I add these to the diet. Where do I just get bones and if I'm
> just starting out, do they have to be deer bones?
>

> **** Well, I wouldn't assume that a dog that *may* have sensitivities to
> cooked proteins in K*bble, will have any problem whatsoever with the same
> proteins in a raw, minimally processed state. It is usually the other
> ingredients that are in Kibble and 'doggie' treats that cause allergic
> reactions. Venison is a very species appropriate, desirable meat. And
> freezer burnt meat is still quite good for dogs - the flavor is affected,
> not the quality. But, I wouldn't start raw feeding with boneless venison.
> Boneless meat causes looser stools, not a problem in itself, but with a
> new-to-raw dog, you want some bone to provide form to the stools. I'd
> recommend that you start with minimally processed whole chicken. ****
>

> 2) I thought one was NEVER to give chicken bones to dogs because of
> fear that they break and lodge in their throats? Boy do I have a lot
> to learn.....
>

> **** COOKED bones of any kind are very brittle and are never to be fed.
> Raw bones, especially chicken bones, are soft and easily digested. ****
>

> 3) To confirm what I've already read --- we are to feed 2-3% of a
> dogs weight, split up into a couple of meals?
>

> **** Not quite. To Start with, plan to feed about 2-3% of the dog's
> estimated IDEAL body weight. If he's not grown, approximate his adult weight
> and figure from there. If he's chubby, estimate what he should weigh, and
> plan from that. If he's skinny, decide what you think he ought to weigh, and
> calculate from that number. After feeding at the beginning amount, you'll
> better be able to tell, from the way he looks and feels, to decide whether
> to increase that amount, decrease it, or let it stay the same. Two meals a
> day to begin with are fine, but sooner or later, you'll want to move to one
> meal a day. Or less. ****
>
> 4) Supplements: Is it ok to give human supplements of flaxseed oil
> and Omega 3's? What would dosage be for a 58# dog?
>

>
> **** Human grade supplements of Omega 3s, such as Fish body oil or Salmon
> oil, are usually the only supplement recommended for a healthy dog. Plant
> based oils, such as flax seed, are not appropriate. when you buy an O3 supp,
> make sure it has no other additives, such as flavorings or plant based oils.
> ****
>
NP!
>

> TC
>

> Giselle
>

> with Bea in New Jersey
>

>
>
> Thanks for your help~
>
> Jerri (mommy of Mocha)
>
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (6)
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7c. Re: New Girl on the Block....
Posted by: "Tina Berry" k9baron@gmail.com k9antje
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:52 am ((PST))

"I have a freezer full of venison that is about a year old that we were
going to throw out, so I thought I'd start with it.....problem is that it is
has already been butchered into roasts, so no bone or organs. How can I add
these to the diet. Where do I just get bones and if I'm just starting out,
do they have to be deer bones?"

Awesome!!! I feed 100% venison year round - keep 3 freezers full of scraps
from hunters, butchers, co-workers emptying their freezers, anywhere I can
get it. When I don't have bones, I buy chicken backs by the box at the
grocery store and throw one in per meal.
--
Tina Berry - MT
Kriegshund German Shepherds
Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
www.kriegshundgsds.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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8a. Re: What to try next -more specifically
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:17 am ((PST))

> Is there such thing that puppy teeth is lot weaker than adult
> teeth??

In my experience the teeth are plenty strong. I suppose it is the
jaw strength in a young pup that is weaker than an adult dog's.

> How long do you have to smash bone or give ground meat or chink
> of meat to puppy?

I got my pups at about 9weeks old and neither of them needed smashed
bone or ground meats. They started with chicken, which has
relatively soft bones, and had no problem with it. When we went on
to pork they didn't consume much of the bone at first, but as they
got older they started eating it.

> and from when can you introduce ribs or neck etc red meat with
> bone ;something that may require stronger teeth?? or until puppy
> teeth is gone,you mustrely on poultry for bone intake and as
> variety,you feed red bonless meat??

Neither of mine consume beef rib bones even now, but they have always
had a good time stripping them clean. They powered through pork neck
bones pretty early on too. They really would just leave the bones
they didn't want, especially when they started teething. I'll never
forget the time Tycho ate all the meat off of a whole duck and left a
carcass picked clean. He lost his first baby teeth that same day.

> Or,whether I feed puppy or not,I can feed everything I feed palette
> with same condition and same variety andjust size and meal
> frequency isdifferent??

Yup, in my experience the only difference was meal frequency. That
and the random bones they decided not to eat.

Andrea

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9a. Re: Please help me prepare to attend home butcher of 2 pigs....
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:24 am ((PST))

Ahh, yes, I had forgotten. I'm sorry, Dawn. Poor little guy, I'm sure
he'll love the pigstuffs, though.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn" <draine9543@...> wrote:

> Problem is that I "have" to grind.
> Not about wanting to grind, I have to.
> My dogs jaw is only hinged on 1 side of his head.
> the other side is held in place by tendons and muscle.

Messages in this topic (18)
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10a. Re: Ok - I'm about ready to go for it!
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:48 am ((PST))

Hi, Jessica!
Welcome to the raw side!
You can't go wrong with the advice you've gotten from Chris O and Tammy C!

@ Tammy - "I'm working them towards a *gorge and rest* style of feeding..."

I LOVE this! I'm gonna use the term from now on, instead of you-know-what!
cqtm

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 21, 2007 2:31 AM, sltahoek9s <crazy4k9@aol.com> wrote:

> Welcome Jessica!
>
> I've been raw feeding two months now and it's going great. Had a couple
> bumps along
> the way, but got through them quickly with the wonderful support from this
> group.
>
> This list recommends 80% meat, 10% edible bone and 10% organs. My
> suggestion is to
> ditch the chicken backs (not enough meat) and go for whole chickens. You
> will want to
> cut them to meal portions. Start out with smaller more frequent meals and
> work towards
> larger, more psychologically and physically satisfying meals. My dogs
> prefer to eat one
> meal a day so they can have more at one sitting. I'm working them towards
> a gorge and
> rest style of feeding but taking my time since they are still fairly new.
>
> Start her out SLOWLY. Stick with chicken for at least a week to two weeks
> and if all is
> going well, then you can add in a little new protein or organ meats at a
> time. Hold on to
> those chicken organs and freeze them for later. No sense in wasting ;)
>
> General recommendation is feeding 2-3% of ideal body weight. So if your
> girl is ideal at
> 120 lbs, you would want to feed her somewhere between 2.4 and 3.6 lbs of
> food per day.
> That's about half a chicken each day. This is only a guideline and rule
> number one is
> "Know your dog!" Feed her as much as she needs to maintain a lean and
> healthy body.
> Too lean and you can add more food or feed fattier meats. Too fat and you
> cut back or
> trim some fat. Only you will know what's right for your own dog.
>
> Oh and you'll want to stay away from any enhanced meats. These tend to
> cause reactions
> or loose stools.
>
> Good luck and stick with it! Your dog will thank you for years to come.
>
> Tammy C
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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11a. hip dysplasia
Posted by: "maradethc" maradethc@yahoo.com maradethc
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:53 am ((PST))

Hi everyone....
I just took my great dane coonhound lab mix to the vet and she has hip
dysplasia. Not sure what to do next. She is about 9 months old. I hope
that anyone can give me some advice on what to do next.
She gets vegie mix and chicken backs most of the time. Thanks and have
a good christmas!
Maradeth (daisy)

Messages in this topic (10)
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11b. Re: hip dysplasia
Posted by: "MORGAN LEWIS" shadowland22000@yahoo.com shadowland22000
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:12 am ((PST))

was this dog x-rayed? Morgan

maradethc <maradethc@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi everyone....
I just took my great dane coonhound lab mix to the vet and she has hip
dysplasia. Not sure what to do next. She is about 9 months old. I hope
that anyone can give me some advice on what to do next.
She gets vegie mix and chicken backs most of the time. Thanks and have
a good christmas!
Maradeth (daisy)

Morgan and His Angels
Precious, OFA
Princess, CGC, TDI, GSDCA Health Award

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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11c. Re: hip dysplasia
Posted by: "Janice Daniels" jdan0325@yahoo.com jdan0325
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:13 am ((PST))

Im interested to know if the vet did x-rays.

----- Original Message ----
From: maradethc <maradethc@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 11:41:26 AM
Subject: [rawfeeding] hip dysplasia

Hi everyone....
I just took my great dane coonhound lab mix to the vet and she has hip
dysplasia. Not sure what to do next. She is about 9 months old. I hope
that anyone can give me some advice on what to do next.
She gets vegie mix and chicken backs most of the time. Thanks and have
a good christmas!
Maradeth (daisy)

____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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11d. Re: hip dysplasia
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:53 am ((PST))

Hi, Maradeth!
Sorry to hear that diagnosis for your Daisy. One of the
problems that guided me to a species appropriate raw diet was HD in two of
my Newfs.

Four things I see that I'd recommend you change in your dog's diet from your
text;
1) veggie mix - not appropriate - this is taking the place of needed
nutrients - meat, fat, bone, organ..
2) chicken backs - too bony - dogs need 80% meat, 10% edible bone.
3) chicken backs - no protein or animal part variety - dog's need plenty of
red meat in their diet.
4) chicken backs and veggies - there's no organ variety - 10% of your dog's
diet should be organs - 3-5% liver and 5-7% "other", like kidney, spleen,
sweetbreads (thymus and pancreas)

I further recommend that, after you do some reading of the archives and
links on this list so you can refocus and plan a more optimum diet, is that
you feed trachea or beef gullet as treats. Edible bone and cartilaginous
parts have condroitin sulfate, which are beneficial for dogs who have HD.
You might want to supplement with glucosamine also, which, I believe, comes
from the shells of critters like shrimp, and can be purchased as a pill or
powder.

Judicious exercise, such as therapeutic walking in a treadmill pool or light
weight pulling with a child's sled, can build up the muscles around the hip
sockets to reduce pain and facilitate easy movement. I'd recommend that you
ask your vet for a referral to a therapy specialist or orthopod.

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawlearning.com/supplementmyths.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

http://rawfeddogs.net/FAQlist
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?query=hip+displasia&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
*http://tinyurl.com/ys2v5q*
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/msearch?query=hip+displasia&pos=10&cnt=10
*http://tinyurl.com/29vgjg

*TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey*
*

On Dec 21, 2007 11:41 AM, maradethc <maradethc@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone....
> I just took my great dane coonhound lab mix to the vet and she has hip
> dysplasia. Not sure what to do next. She is about 9 months old. I hope
> that anyone can give me some advice on what to do next.
> She gets veggie mix and chicken backs most of the time. Thanks and have
> a good Christmas!
> Maradeth (daisy)
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (10)
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12. Newbie, vegi, raw feeder.
Posted by: "lyndam22" lyndam950@telus.net lyndam22
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:18 am ((PST))

Hello everyone!

I'm new here but have raw fed my Danes for about 6 years. Now I have
a 3 month old pup I have more questions. : )
I am also a vegetarian and yes, it feels weird packing my grocery
cart with meat found on sale in the grocery store. LOL! I still feel
like I need to wash my hands ASAP after handling the meat packages in
the store.

Take care, Lynda McLellan
Hum (8yr old black Dane) Belvedere (1 1/2 yr old Manchester terror) &
Calypso (3 month old merle Dane). All boys. The younger guys were
weaned on raw and I have no problems getting any of them to eat!!!

Messages in this topic (1)
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13a. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with dobe
Posted by: "Laura Atkinson" llatkinson@gmail.com lauraatkinson2002
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:20 am ((PST))

The fun of feeding a puppy is they're willing to put *anything* into their
mouths and call it food :-)

Plan on 3 meals a day to start, 2 bigger ones and a snack sized meal or
whatever works for your schedule. You can start with a single protein for
the first few days and then add others (that snack sized meal is great for
new stuff).

There are two common reasons for soft, sloppy stools in puppies. The first
is too much in each meal. Their little guts can only hold so much at a
time, despite what their eyes say. If you're getting sloppy stools, Plan A
is to decrease the amount fed in each meal and add another snack or meal.
The second reason may be too much variety too soon. While it's fun to try
new things, some puppies require you to slow down and let them get used to
things at a more sedate pace.

Other than that, figure at starting at about 2%-3% of their anticipated
adult weight (per day, divided into however many meals) and adjust up or
down as needed to keep the puppy at a good weight. I don't worry about
puppies getting a little bit plumpish, because generally they undergo an
overnight growth spurt and all the plumpness is sucked into growth. But
don't make them fat. It's a fine line <G> and you'll get used to dancing
around it. And don't be afraid to feed more. Robin, for instance, at 11
months old (where does the time go?) is eating more than my adult, neutered
males. And she's not fat at all. So, play it by ear and adjust as needed.

You're going to need more than tripe and chicken, but that's a good place to
start.

--
Laura A
Kaos Siberians http://www.kaossiberians.com
Send more trespassers, the last ones were delicious

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (13)
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14. Terminology?
Posted by: "cutensexyb89" cutensexyb89@yahoo.com cutensexyb89
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:23 am ((PST))

So I am a little confused I have read you should feed 70% Raw meaty
bones, but then I read no more than 10% bones? And muscle meat should
be about 20%. Muscle meat is like boneless chicken breasts? What are
some example of raw meaty bones? And muscle meat?

I gave a thigh today, is that too much bone?
Madie

Messages in this topic (1)
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15a. Re: Older dog and poop schedule
Posted by: "jesperanueva" jesperanueva@yahoo.com jesperanueva
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:24 am ((PST))

Thanks Laurie!
Ya, I recently just switched him not even a week yet lol. Just
giving him chicken for the first week or so to get him acclimated =) I
must admit my excessive worry is b/c he is an older dog and didn't
want him having issues in that department =) Good news is he has been
going, and although smaller than usual, a lot less clean-up for me!

Thanks tons!

Jane

Messages in this topic (6)
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