[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12407

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Terminology?
From: Andrea
1b. Re: Terminology?
From: Giselle
1c. Re: Terminology?
From: costrowski75
1d. Re: Terminology?
From: carnesbill

2a. Re: I am sooo worthless... Definately NOT
From: Lynda McLellan
2b. Re: I am sooo worthless... Definately NOT
From: Sandee Lee

3a. Offered Fish
From: Kelly
3b. Re: Offered Fish
From: Giselle
3c. Re: Offered Fish
From: mozookpr
3d. Re: Offered Fish
From: Maggie Smith
3e. Re: Offered Fish
From: Giselle
3f. Re: Offered Fish
From: mozookpr
3g. Picky on which CUTS of meat?
From: Firestone, Adam C.

4a. Re: Pork shoulder part deux
From: Kevin Brown

5a. Re: Ok - I'm about ready to go for it!
From: carnesbill
5b. Re: Ok - I'm about ready to go for it!
From: Sandee Lee
5c. Re: Ok - I'm about ready to go for it!
From: carnesbill

6.1. chicken feet and heads
From: atmanandadevotee

7a. Re: Newbie, vegi, raw feeder.
From: Sandee Lee

8a. Re: So I decided to switch
From: carnesbill
8b. Re: So I decided to switch
From: mozookpr

9a. Which parts do I ask the butcher for?
From: Carrin
9b. Re: Which parts do I ask the butcher for?
From: Sandee Lee

10a. Re: OFF TOPIC - freezers
From: Erika

11. Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
From: homesforallpets

Messages
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1a. Re: Terminology?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:32 am ((PST))

That's one of the main reasons we don't talk about needing a certain
amount of "raw meaty bones" in the diet. To me a raw meaty bone is a
pork shoulder, but someone else might consider a chicken back to be a
raw meaty bone.

You want to feed mostly meat, some bone, some organ. Basically you
want to approximate what you would find in a prey animal like deer and
such that wolves eat.

Say you feed a whole chicken. There's no reason to know exactly how
much bone is in the chicken, just know that it is definitely more than
10%. If you fed chicken a la chicken for months on end you would be
feeding too much bone. But when you add in beef heart or a pork roast
you are doing much better.

Don't think about separating the meat from bone from organ or you'll
drive yourself nuts. The more whole parts of animals you feed the less
you will have to worry. And above all let your dogs tell you how
things are going. If you feed a thigh and end up with crumbly poo your
dog is telling you they need more meat. I hope that helps a bit.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cutensexyb89" <cutensexyb89@...>
wrote:
>
> So I am a little confused I have read you should feed 70% Raw meaty
> bones, but then I read no more than 10% bones? And muscle meat should
> be about 20%. Muscle meat is like boneless chicken breasts? What are
> some example of raw meaty bones? And muscle meat?

Messages in this topic (5)
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1b. Re: Terminology?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:49 am ((PST))

Hi, Madie!
A LOT of peeps come to this raw feeding list already feeding
either ground mixes consisting of a very high percentage of ground bone; or
bony parts, like chicken backs and necks, or boneless meat with marrow or
w/rec/k bones tossed into the mix.

They want to know what kinds of RMBs to feed. (Raw Meaty Bones) These are
recommended by many other websites and 'flavors' of raw feeding definitions,
but are waaay too bony, and is a very unhelpful term.

On this list, we prefer to think of a raw diet as consisting of whole prey,
and the parts of whole prey that can be fed to our dogs.

So, its better to think in terms of animal parts, and the usual percentages
that are helpful to new-to-raw peeps are;
80-% meat - this is muscle, fat, skin, & connective tissue - including
heart, gizzards and tongue.
10% edible bone - if its not soft enough for the dog to consume and digest
it, it don't count as part of the diet.
10% organs - 3-5% liver and 5-7% "other" - such as kidney, spleen and
sweetbreads. (thymus & pancreas)

Chickens are bonier, and, fed exclusively, will provide more than the 10%
bone recommended, but thats why its often recommended to new-to-raw feeders,
it helps to firm up a newly switched dog's stools. Each and every animal has
the 'perfect' amount of bone, for its type. But, variety is important, and a
variety of animal parts and proteins, bone in and boneless meals, fed to
your dog, will provide his diet with "Balance Over Time".

Boneless meatymeat can be chicken breasts, and yes, turkey meat, beef
roasts, and pork roasts and mutton and goat and venison and.....

TC
Giselle

On Dec 21, 2007 1:20 PM, cutensexyb89 <cutensexyb89@yahoo.com> wrote:

> So I am a little confused I have read you should feed 70% Raw meaty
> bones, but then I read no more than 10% bones? And muscle meat should
> be about 20%. Muscle meat is like boneless chicken breasts? What are
> some example of raw meaty bones? And muscle meat?
>
> I gave a thigh today, is that too much bone?
> Madie
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (5)
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1c. Re: Terminology?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:04 am ((PST))

"cutensexyb89" <cutensexyb89@...> wrote:>
> So I am a little confused I have read you should feed 70% Raw meaty
> bones, but then I read no more than 10% bones?
*****
Meaty bones are bones with meat on them. They may be completely edible
bones, they may be partially edible bones, they may be difficult bones
to eat. The meat these bones hold may be succulent and juicy, the meat
may be scarce and difficult to obtain, the meat may be more of a wish
than reality. A meaty bone may be big (like a leg o' lamb), a meaty
one may be tiny like a chicken neck. How much meat? How much bone?

Who knows?

The term "meaty bone" does not inform the feeder or the reader of much,
other than it's not unadorned meat and not unadorned bone. There are
better ways to describe a raw diet.

Edible bone means just what it says: bone that is edible. It may be
meatless, it may be succulently lavishly meaty but what you know
absolutely is that the bone is edible. From a nutritional perspective,
dogs need about 10% edible bone.

How you get that amount into your dog is up to you and your dog. I
prefer to feed whole prey when I can, and large body parts when I
cannot and plenty of meat all the time. I choose not to feed bare
bones or bones with little meat on them. Others have found different
ways to address their dog's needs. However one chooses to dole out
edible bone, plans can and do change as the dog's needs do.

What "10%" bone means is your dog doesn't need much bone for optimal
health. Ten percent is a dime compared to a dollar. It's one M&M from
a pile of ten. It's a buck change from a c-note. It ain't much.

Over time you should plan to feed enough bone to nourish the dog, help
maintain dental hygiene and stabilize stools to your liking. The rest
of the menu should be meaty glorious meat and some organs.

And muscle meat should
> be about 20%. Muscle meat is like boneless chicken breasts?
*****
Muscle meat can easily be 85% of the menu, and should be at least 75%
(and this allows for quite a lot of that there edible bone). Muscle
meat (which includes fat, connective tissue and skin as well as flesh)
is meat that is not squidgy organs. I don't know who told you 20%
muscle meat but that's way way off the mark. Boneless chicken breasts
are all meat, yes. But a rib-in, skin on chicken breast is a body part
that offers meat (flesh and fat and skin) and edible bone.

If what you're looking at is not a bone and is not an organ like liver
or kidney or lungs or a pancreas or a spleen...it's meat.

I recommend you browse the archives. There are hundreds of
conversations about what's what and why and how you feed so and so and
where to find any of it anyway.

> I gave a thigh today, is that too much bone?
*****
If that's all you ever feed, yes. If that's just what you feed today,
no. A day's meal is almost never a make or break deal. It's one of
many meals in a long stream of meals.

"Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow creep in this petty pace to the
last syllable of recorded time"--now THAT's A description of over time.

Feed oodles of meat, feed some bone. Feed some organ meat. Done and
done.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
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1d. Re: Terminology?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:36 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cutensexyb89" <cutensexyb89@...>
wrote:
>
> I gave a thigh today, is that too much bone?

Hey again Madie,
What everyone else said in this thread is correct. Don't try to feed
numbers. Don't try to keep up with percentages or ratios. That is
real complicated and gives me a headache. Feed a vareity of animal
parts from a variety of animals, mostly meat, some bone, and some
organs and all will be ok. You don't have to count calories, protein,
calcium or anything. It will all automatically work out for you.

Remember you work up to the gradually. Your dogs are new at this so
start slowly. You won't be to the point of feeding a vareity of
animal parts from a variety of animals for a couple of months. You
will gradually add new stuff as you go along. Don't be in such a
rush. It will all work out. It is all very simple.

No a thigh is not too much bone for now.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: I am sooo worthless... Definately NOT
Posted by: "Lynda McLellan" lyndam950@telus.net lyndam22
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:28 am ((PST))

Well this summer I looked out my window to find a young moose in my yard. At first I thought poor guy etc. He jumped a 6 ft fence and was trying to get out. He got out fine but headed toward town instead of back to the bush behind our place. Hmmm.
My hubby said he saw a dead moose by the highway near our place a couple of days later. I felt bad...then I thought...road kill. That moose was big enough to fill the freezer and I bet the dogs would love it. LOL! Now I never did this but sure wondered if I could take a whole moose body and cut it up??? And this is what feeding raw meat to my dogs has led my vegetarian thoughts too!!!
Take care, Lynda... mmmm Moose meat!
PS: Hi Sandee

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (11)
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2b. Re: I am sooo worthless... Definately NOT
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:29 pm ((PST))

You had to throw in that moose story for me, eh Lynda?? You may have needed
help cutting that guy up! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Lynda McLellan" <lyndam950@telus.net>

> My hubby said he saw a dead moose by the highway near our place a couple
of days later. I felt bad...then I thought...road kill. That moose was big
enough to fill the freezer and I bet the dogs would love it. LOL! Now I
never did this but sure wondered if I could take a whole moose body and cut
it up??? And this is what feeding raw meat to my dogs has led my vegetarian
thoughts too!!!
> Take care, Lynda... mmmm Moose meat!
> PS: Hi Sandee

Messages in this topic (11)
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3a. Offered Fish
Posted by: "Kelly" kpetska@mgmmirage.com kpet1218
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:28 am ((PST))

Hello everyone,

I'm the one with the 1 year old 3 pound chihuahua Yoshi. Anyway, we've
been doing raw for a bit over 3 weeks now and I gave him half a sardine
yesterday with his normal serving of chicken. He LOVED it :) Do you
know if the ones in the can are cooked? It didn't say anything on the
package about being smoked or cooked. It was packed in water. The
meat counter guy did tell me they get them in fresh sometimes though,
can't wait!

I also grabbed a container of beef liver and he didn't like beef liver
any better than chicken liver =D

Messages in this topic (7)
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3b. Re: Offered Fish
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:28 pm ((PST))

Hi, Kelly!
So glad that Yoshi is loving his new raw diet!

Canned anything is cooked - the canning process itself cooks what ever is
inside the cans.
Feeding canned fish occasionally won't hurt your dog, ime.
Watch the salt content, tho'.
But raw fish is much better!

Try chopping it up finely and adding grated cheese to the liver, or searing
it quickly in a very hot pan for a few seconds. You can feed it frozen it
too.There's other tricks, if those don't work. : )
Since Yoshi is tiny, he doesn't need but a little bit of liver.
It works out to only .15 oz a *week* - thats not much at all!
5% of 3 lbs = 2.4 oz per day
7 days x 2.4 oz = 16.8 oz
3% of 16.8 oz = .15 oz

TC
Giselle

On Dec 21, 2007 1:56 PM, Kelly <kpetska@mgmmirage.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm the one with the 1 year old 3 pound chihuahua Yoshi. Anyway, we've
> been doing raw for a bit over 3 weeks now and I gave him half a sardine
> yesterday with his normal serving of chicken. He LOVED it :) Do you
> know if the ones in the can are cooked? It didn't say anything on the
> package about being smoked or cooked. It was packed in water. The
> meat counter guy did tell me they get them in fresh sometimes though,
> can't wait!
>
> I also grabbed a container of beef liver and he didn't like beef liver
> any better than chicken liver =D
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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3c. Re: Offered Fish
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:33 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly" <kpetska@...> wrote:
Do you
> know if the ones in the can are cooked? It didn't say anything on
the
> package about being smoked or cooked. It was packed in water.

All canned food is cooked, sardines included. If they are smoked, the
can should say so. Foxy loves sardines, too, he likes them even more
than my cats do. I have not yet found them fresh, however.

Wendy

Messages in this topic (7)
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3d. Re: Offered Fish
Posted by: "Maggie Smith" redkeds@comcast.net redkeds1
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:18 pm ((PST))

the reason you can not find fresh or uncooked sardines is that they do
not exist. i believe it is small mackeral or similar fish that are
caught and then processed/cooked, to become sardines.

hope it helps,
Maggie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mozookpr" <mozookpr@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly" <kpetska@> wrote:
> Do you
> > know if the ones in the can are cooked? It didn't say anything on
> the
> > package about being smoked or cooked. It was packed in water.
>
> All canned food is cooked, sardines included. If they are smoked,
the
> can should say so. Foxy loves sardines, too, he likes them even more
> than my cats do. I have not yet found them fresh, however.
>
> Wendy
>

Messages in this topic (7)
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3e. Re: Offered Fish
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:49 pm ((PST))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardine
http://www.oceansalive.org/eat.cfm?subnav=fishpage&group=Sardines

TC
Giselle

On Dec 21, 2007 4:47 PM, Maggie Smith <redkeds@comcast.net> wrote:

> the reason you can not find fresh or uncooked sardines is that they do
> not exist. i believe it is small mackerel or similar fish that are
> caught and then processed/cooked, to become sardines.
>
> hope it helps,
> Maggie
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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3f. Re: Offered Fish
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:10 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Maggie Smith" <redkeds@...> wrote:
>
> the reason you can not find fresh or uncooked sardines is that they
do
> not exist. i believe it is small mackeral or similar fish that are
> caught and then processed/cooked, to become sardines.
>
> hope it helps,
> Maggie
>
Wow, I did not know that, thanks! I would be delighted to find any
small raw fish here, but you have given me a place to start. Perhaps I
can order them.

Cheers,

Wendy

Messages in this topic (7)
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3g. Picky on which CUTS of meat?
Posted by: "Firestone, Adam C." Adam.C.Firestone@saic.com spitzgeschoss
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:10 pm ((PST))

About a week and a half ago I switched to RMB for my two greyhounds.

To date, we've fed raw chicken drumsticks, pork ribs, raw chicken thighs, and today raw chicken leg quarters.

Sabot, my 5 year old male, seems to be very picky about what he wants. He'll nibble on the ribs and the leg quarters, but is really into the drumsticks (which is fine, as they've been on sale for 0.59/lb lately).

Nike, 2.5 year old female, has no problem with any of it.

Is this something about which I should be concerned? Is there any way to make Sabot more open to new things?

Also, we're babysitting a pug, for whom I've gotten some cut up chicken wings. She seems VERY into playing with the wings, and not so much into eating them (although there was SOME self satisfied crunching of bones. . )

Advice as to my "picky" eater would be most appreciated (as well as any for the pug).

Thanks!

Adam

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4a. Re: Pork shoulder part deux
Posted by: "Kevin Brown" jerseykev@aol.com noblarneyzone
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:28 am ((PST))

I am not sure if I ever shared this with this group or not.

The Pork Shoulder routine at our house.

I always get it between .89 & .99 cents per pound. I get 10 pound
piece.

I skin it with a good skinning knife, and split it between the two of
them. They love it!

Then I cut out a 2 pound hunk and baste it with olive oil and put it
in my "Showtime" rottesserie. (sp)

Then I chop it exactly in half and give each of my 6-7 month old
mastiff pups half.

I make a carb and a salad.

I eat the roast, the salad and share the carb as an after dinner
treat with the pups.

A little rose' and we all sleep weel that night and fast the next
together.

Its the highlight of the week for the three of us.

Happy Holidays.

KEVIN BROWN
Baby & Georgeanne
GuardiansByTheSea.com
The Jersey Shore

Messages in this topic (6)
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5a. Re: Ok - I'm about ready to go for it!
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:00 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jhusselstein" <jhusselstein@...>
wrote:
>
> I'll be asking about the turkey necks in a few weeks!
>
Go ahead and order the turkey necks the same time you order the
backs. You want to feed whole necks, not the ones that are cut in
half like you usually find on the grocery counter.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (10)
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5b. Re: Ok - I'm about ready to go for it!
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:24 pm ((PST))

Hi Jessica,

Forget the backs. They are far too bony, too small for a Dane and any
savings you might see will quickly be eaten up by having to buy meat to add
to them. Just get some chicken quarters or even better yet, whole chickens
and quarter or half them yourself. As soon as she is digesting chicken
well, you can move onto another protein, bits of organs, etc. No need to
wait a month or even weeks if she is doing well.

You don't really have to feed in a crate (if she doesn't fit) <g>,,,just lay
the blanket or towel on the floor and teach her to eat there. Regardless,
no bleach! Vinegar/water will do nicely if any cleanup is necessary. I
feed mine on blankets and throw in the wash once in a while.

I wouldn't be too quick to order turkey necks until you determine how she is
going to eat this wonderful new food! :) They are fine if she isn't a
gulper, but they are one of those "know your dog" things. Turkey necks are
just the right diameter to get stuck if you have a dog who gulps and tries
to swallow everything whole.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "jhusselstein" <jhusselstein@yahoo.com>

So, I think I'll start with the Chicken Backs, although I've never
seen them in the store, I could probably ask the butcher for a few,
or hack them off myself and cook the rest for my 2 legged
children...:)

Messages in this topic (10)
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5c. Re: Ok - I'm about ready to go for it!
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:32 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee Lee" <rlee@...> wrote:
>
> Forget the backs. They are far too bony, too small for a Dane
> and any savings you might see will quickly be eaten up by
> having to buy meat to add to them.

Thats just an opinion. I have been feeding 2 backs a day for 5
years without adding the first thing to them. I know many people
who feed their danes backs with no problems with size.

> No need to wait a month or even weeks if she is doing well.

If you don't mind digestive upset, you can feed what you want
immediately. If you are like me, (someone who does not like to
clean up liquid poo or vomit), you wll take it a little slower and
not add stuff so quickly. I have never one time in 5 years had one
of my dogs get diarrhea nor throw up, except to re-chew.

> Turkey necks are
> just the right diameter to get stuck if you have a dog who
> gulps and tries to swallow everything whole.

I have never known a Dane to die on a turkey neck. Yes, sometimes
they will "bring them back up" to re-chew but that about the extent
of it. If you don't know what they are doing when they "bring them
back", it can be a little scary but it certainly isn't dangerous.
Mine have eaten turkey necks 2 times a week for 5 years.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

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6.1. chicken feet and heads
Posted by: "atmanandadevotee" atmanandadevotee@yahoo.fr atmanandadevotee
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:00 pm ((PST))

hello,
is that right to give my dogs heads (without neck)and feet (just the
extremity)from organic chickens (I get them free) after a meal of
beefmeat or turkey's hearts as "meaty bones" ?
if yes, how often can I give them : every two days ? every day or sort
of once a week ? they eat every part of it :beak and claw included !
darshana

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7a. Re: Newbie, vegi, raw feeder.
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:26 pm ((PST))

Hey Lynda, so do I feel the need to wash my hands after handling those
packages! And you *know* I eat meat!!! :))

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "lyndam22" <lyndam950@telus.net>

I am also a vegetarian and yes, it feels weird packing my grocery
cart with meat found on sale in the grocery store. LOL! I still feel
like I need to wash my hands ASAP after handling the meat packages in
the store.

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8a. Re: So I decided to switch
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:35 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "cutensexyb89" <cutensexyb89@...>
wrote:
>
> You all are so helpful
> I think I will stick to chicken for a week or 2, but since
> they have
> already been getting ribs 2-3 times a week, do you think they
> can have them with their chicken?

Madie,
I don't know why it is everyone who is new wants to progress
instantly to a great variety of foods and orgsns. There is no need
to do this. You have a lifetime to feed them, taking it slow the
first month or two is not going to hurt them or you. If you take is
slow and easy you minimize the chance of digestive upset. If you
don't mind the digestive upset then feed them whatever you want to.

> This morning they each got a chicken thigh, is that enough?

Can't say. I don't know how big they are.

> Should I give them a egg or a rib?

Why would you want to? There is no reason to at this point. In a
few more weeks, it will be fine. Again, if you don't mind cannon
butt or throwing up, feed anything you wish. I don't worry about
nutrition this early into the diet. My main concern is thier
digestive system not being ready for so much so fast. Nutrition can
start in a couple of months.

> I think I went to quickly yesterday and gave
> them a bellyache, I am going to stay away from the pork and heavy
> meats for a few weeks.

Don't feel bad. You aren't the only one to move to fast. I think
its a good move to slow down some.

> I keep reading that it is best to give them actual carcasses,
> but my
> girls are so small they don't need that much food, can I get
> a chicken or a rabbit and cut it into fourths?

That is absolutely no problem. It would be a wise move if your dogs
are small.

> Muscle meats are just boneless meats? Correct?

Yep.

> So after there bodies adjust to this, I could give them a chicken
> thigh, piece of heart or live and a piece of boneless
> chicken breast
> and that would even cover the rmb's muscle and organ for the day?

There you are rushing things again. Don't worry about nutrition at
this point. Feed thighs only for a week and see what they do.
Thighs have meat on them. No need to add more. You don't need to
balance each meal you feed. No one here does. You balance over
time. For example if you feed too boney of meals for several days,
feed a few days of boneless meals and vice versa. Balance over time.

> Also do you mix proteins? Could I do beef shoulder with
> chicken breast?

You absolutely can. I don't suggest it this early in the diet. A
couple of months down the road would be great. Once you start
thinking about "balance over time" you will see this only
complicates feeding. I usually (not always) only feed one thing per
meal. Its just so much simpler.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (11)
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8b. Re: So I decided to switch
Posted by: "mozookpr" mozookpr@yahoo.com mozookpr
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:32 pm ((PST))

I want to add one thought about pork and pig feet. Pork is great, in
fact, I have seen lots of people here recommend it as a possible
second meat to introduce to a newbie dog. I am new to raw feeding,
and have been following this advice, with good results. Dogs like
it, and it's often cheap.

Pig FEET, aka trotters, can be another story. They have LOTS of fat
on them, and are covered with thick skin that makes the fat difficult
to remove. Too much fat can cause runny stools. I gave one to Foxy
a bit too soon, primarily as a treat, since I had taken away his
beloved wreck bones. (I didn't dare give one to Sophie the
Sensitive!) He loved it, but was clearly not ready for it. BAD
cannon butt for a couple of days, which is no joke to clean off a
Pomeranian's little "bloomers." The rest of the trotters are in the
freezer for now. Even when my dogs get a bit more experience as raw
feeders, I am not sure I will offer pig feet other than as an
occasional treat. They provide very little actual meat, and at a
price per pound that would fetch me a nice butt or shoulder roast.

Welcome from a fellow newbie. Your enthusiasm is amazing!

Wendy, Foxy, and Sophie

Messages in this topic (11)
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9a. Which parts do I ask the butcher for?
Posted by: "Carrin" mntgrl_2000@yahoo.com mntgrl_2000
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:36 pm ((PST))

I have found a processor who deals with Beef, Pork, Goat and Sheep.
They said they could give me prices, but I just don't know
which "parts" I should be asking for.

I know that I would like to get some raw bones w/marrow for "treat"
time, but not sure what else I could use.

Thanks!
Carrin

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: Which parts do I ask the butcher for?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:46 pm ((PST))

Carrin,

Focus on meaty portions...roasts, whole legs or whole necks (meaning no meat
removed), meaty ribs, brisket, whole oxtail, shoulders, organs, etc. Think
meat rather than bone. Get the entire critter if you can! :) You might
want to visit Kevin's recipe section to get an idea of what is
appropriate.....
http://rawfeddogs.net

You don't want bare bones or marrow bones devoid of meat.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Carrin" <mntgrl_2000@yahoo.com>

I have found a processor who deals with Beef, Pork, Goat and Sheep.
They said they could give me prices, but I just don't know
which "parts" I should be asking for.

I know that I would like to get some raw bones w/marrow for "treat"
time, but not sure what else I could use.

Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Re: OFF TOPIC - freezers
Posted by: "Erika" Erika@redangelbordeaux.com redangelbordeaux
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:33 pm ((PST))

MODERATOR'S NOTE: THE TOPIC SHOULD MOVE TO RAWCHAT. BEING ON RAWCHAT DOES NOT DIMINISH THE VALUE OF THE TOPIC OR THE CONVERSATION.

Sorry guys for the OT conversation but I think that some of us can find this useful ;)

As far as the "watterproof" You wan to keep the water out of the insulation just as yuo want to keep the water out of your attic, lol.

Build the freezer box up off the ground on to cinderblocks if you are in a super soggy environment and then paint or use a waterproof stain to seal the wood when you are done. You will need ot finish off the wood like this to keep it from rotting away and to keep the moisture to a mimimum. A little damp wont hurt, it's a freezer for dog food for heavens sake, lol. Just don't leave the lid open durring a down poor. Keep an eye on the wood sealant, just like a deck it will need to be touched up to keep your handy work looking good for years!

Erika

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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11. Have dog and raise rabbits = happy dog?
Posted by: "homesforallpets" homesforallpets@yahoo.com homesforallpets
Date: Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:10 pm ((PST))

Hi! I just joined a little earlier today. Would have said hi sooner
but I was poking through all the good stuff that was sent to me when
I joined.

I have a 4 1/2 month old Black Lab, gorgeous little girl, high
energy. Gobbles kibble but when I toss her a piece of rabbit I am
processing she settles down and gets her jaws going.

I raise a few different kinds of rabbits, none of them traditional
meat breeds but hey, they all have meat on em.

I'mgoing to be getting an older Lab Chow mix on Christmas day. I am
hoping to eventually have both on raw diets. However I am so
confused. They just need meat no extras? They should get a variety
but it should be a variety of types of meat not other types of foods?

I want to do this right. Angel (the Lab) has been getting a piece of
rabbit in the evening 2 to 4 times a week. It has cut down on her
kibble intake alot. I would feed more and get to no kibble at all
but the holidays have me strapped and the cold has caused me to lose
litters. (rabbits I do not nor will I ever breed dogs)

Here is a really odd question. My dog (Angel) has caught and eaten
wild rats and field mice. Can I raise rats to feed her? I know its
unconventional but I have a chance to start breeding them and have no
qualms about processing them for her.

Kathy in MO
Angel - Pure Lab
??? - Lab/Chow mix
and Oreo and Turkey (cats)

Messages in this topic (1)
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