[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12413

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Christmas feast ..
From: URSULA
1b. Re: Christmas feast ..
From: Eddie Scholten
1c. Re: Christmas feast ..
From: sisterloui
1d. Re: Christmas feast ..
From: costrowski75

2a. Re: Charley's Off his feed
From: costrowski75

3a. Re: dehydrated raw
From: katkellm
3b. Re: dehydrated raw
From: costrowski75
3c. Re: dehydrated raw
From: Sandee Lee
3d. Re: dehydrated raw
From: carnesbill

4a. Re: Need a logical response
From: costrowski75
4b. Re: Need a logical response
From: Shelly
4c. Re: Need a logical response
From: diannem200400

5a. Re: Raw and Addison's disease
From: m_smedick

6. frozen??
From: joan

7a. Whole chickens
From: Sherrel Leininger
7b. Re: Whole chickens
From: Yasuko herron
7c. Re: Whole chickens
From: Sherrel Leininger

8a. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with Dobe
From: Sherrel Leininger

9.1. Re: So I decided to switch
From: blue eyed

10a. Re: Relevant to several threads -runny stools/ lack of appetite/ wei
From: carnesbill

11a. Little poo question
From: John and Jeni Blackmon
11b. Re: Little poo question
From: Laurie Swanson
11c. Re: Little poo question
From: Sherrel Leininger
11d. Re: Little poo question
From: carnesbill

12a. Re: Hip Dysplasia
From: Lynette Friedrichs

Messages
________________________________________________________________________

1a. Christmas feast ..
Posted by: "URSULA" UCL@NEUF.FR ursula21c
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:54 am ((PST))

My two labs helped themselves to a kilo of Medjool dates. I can't say
they shared them but the entire contents of the bowl disappeared from
the kitchen table. These were for a Christmas party and not easy to
get at.
I don't know about dates and dogs and can't imagine why they were
attracted to them in the first place?
Does anyone know of known problems with dates or whether this will
mean a serious case of loose poo.
Ursula
Salies, France

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: Christmas feast ..
Posted by: "Eddie Scholten" shirl-ed@hotmail.com shirley11964
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:17 am ((PST))

Hi Ursula,

I would think that any great quantity of dried or fresh fruit is likely to cause a reaction.
When I first read your mail, I thought, 'Oh, no! Loose stools are likely.'
But, having said that, I have no experience with this situation so can't offer any real advice.

Good luck with the poo and Merry Christmas!

Shirley (Netherlands).

_________________________________________________________________
Jouw nieuws en entertainment, vind je op MSN.nl!
http://nl.msn.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: Christmas feast ..
Posted by: "sisterloui" habershon@aol.com sisterloui
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:26 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "URSULA" <UCL@...> wrote:
>
> My two labs helped themselves to a kilo of Medjool dates. I can't say
> they shared them but the entire contents of the bowl disappeared from
> the kitchen table. These were for a Christmas party and not easy to
> get at.
> I don't know about dates and dogs and can't imagine why they were
> attracted to them in the first place?
> Does anyone know of known problems with dates or whether this will
> mean a serious case of loose poo.
> Ursula
> Salies, France

Oh dear (grin) As a long time labrador owner I believe labs are the
dustbins of the universe ! If its edible they will eat it !

Depending on the amounts eaten I would expect quite a few dashes to the
toilet for them. A bit of a head ache as they will get a sugar rush
from the high sugar content.

I cant find anthing on the internet to say they are dangerous at all
for dogs.

And no ! They wont learn and will have another go if you replace them.

I think you will come off worse having to clean up after them.

That brings back memories of one of my labs making off with a 20 pound
turkey 20 mins before dinner was due to be served!
He even sneaked back to try to get at the chestnut stuffing !

Best wishes
Jane

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: Christmas feast ..
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:43 am ((PST))

"URSULA" <UCL@...> wrote:
>
> My two labs helped themselves to a kilo of Medjool dates. I can't say
> they shared them but the entire contents of the bowl disappeared from
> the kitchen table.
*****
Rresults? Loose stools probably but dates are good for fiber so the
disaster may be less than you anticipate. Stick them Labadores outside
so they can contemplate their bellies and their sins in peace. Joy to
the world.

Silly Labs.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

2a. Re: Charley's Off his feed
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:40 am ((PST))

"becca1066" <becca1066@...> wrote:
> he does have a place on his tail he has been chewing-no idea what
> started it but I have been putting peroxide & gentle iodine on it-
> went through the whole lick granuloma with another dog)
*****
My guess is whatever stress started him chewing his tail is the same
stress that has him off his food. If you are stressing out right now
that's as good a reason as any for a dog to stress as well. If the
whole family is experiencing holiday frenzy, he may easily be off the
charts.

OTOH, whatever has him off his food could also be stress that has
started him chewing. What came first? Is he intact? Is there a
bitch in season in the area?

OTOH, both ingested peroxide and iodine can cause nausea, so perhaps
the treatment you are using on his tail (there are less invasive ones
for sure) is what's putting him off his food.

In lieu of taking him to the vet, I'd recommend looking for the
stressors in his life right now, using a different approach to his
tail chewing, and keeping watch for symptoms that may indicate a more
specific health issue. Does he have a temp?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: dehydrated raw
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:57 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "peggyparker_4" <peggyparker_4@...>
wrote:
>
> Has anyone had any experience with the food from The Honest Kitchen?
> After struggling with pure raw for a month with my 4 month 3lb. puppy,
> I became concerned that he wasn't getting enough nutrients. He doesn't
> know what to do with a bone, and the butcher could not grind one up
>for me,

Hi Peggy,
No experience here. I checked the products out on the web, and all
the ones that i was able to find have grains and veggies in them. Are
these the ones that you are feeding? If so, i think that, i'm sorry
if you did post problems about your little puppy's eating problems and
i don't recall, maybe we should try to help you straighten out the "my
puppy can't chew bone" issue and not the value of Honest Kitchen. I'm
going to guess that because carnivores, aka dogs, even small ones,
have no dietary need for grains or veggies, and because they can cause
allergies and health issues in dogs, and since dogs get the nutrients
of plants and such from eating the animal that nature intended to eat
grasses and veggies, you probably won't get many recommendations here.
What exactly went wrong when you were feeding pure raw? KathyM

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: dehydrated raw
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:40 am ((PST))

"peggyparker_4" <peggyparker_4@...> wrote:>
> Has anyone had any experience with the food from The Honest Kitchen?
*****
Have you ever heard the tale of Stone Soup? That's what Honest Kitcken
is, plain and simple.

In case you didn't realize it, YOU are adding the raw meat. HK isn't
doing a damn thing but cobbling together a redundancy of supplements
for you to add to the real food, which is--dahdah--the raw meat YOU
provide.

One month of figuring out a good raw diet is not a long time and it is
not going to undermine your pup's current health or future successes.
You have bought into the profound lie that you cannot provide adequate
nutrition on your own.

What makes a good raw diet is raw meat, raw bone, raw organs,, plus
patience, creativity and a good (free) dose of common sense. Not the
dehydrated stuff. The dehydrated stuff is what makes entrepreneurs
rich. What a crock.

A crock of stone soup.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: dehydrated raw
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:18 am ((PST))

What kind of bones were you trying to feed him? He definitely should be
able to eat bones in something like a chicken breast or game hen without any
problem and you don't need much bone in the overall diet.

There is not one ingredient in the Honest Kitchen foods that is necessary or
beneficial for your puppy. He probably likes it because it is all carbs and
nice and sweet! :)

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "peggyparker_4" <peggyparker_4@yahoo.com>

Has anyone had any experience with the food from The Honest Kitchen?
After struggling with pure raw for a month with my 4 month 3lb. puppy,
I became concerned that he wasn't getting enough nutrients. He doesn't
know what to do with a bone, and the butcher could not grind one up for
me, so I ordered a 4lb. bag of the dehydrated, add raw meat to it and
he is loving it. It is good to see him dive into his food instead of
eyeballing it with disdain and confusion. If I could find a bone shaped
like a shoe, I bet he would know what to do with it then.
Peggy

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

3d. Re: dehydrated raw
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:14 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "peggyparker_4" <peggyparker_4@...>
wrote:
>
> I became concerned that he wasn't getting enough nutrients.

"Concerned he wasn't getting enough nutrients" and "KNOWING he isn't
getting enough nutrients" are two different things. In the first
place, I don't think you know what nutrients he requires. In the 2nd
place I don't think you know what nutrients are in the food you are
feeding him.

> He doesn't know what to do with a bone,

Of course he does. I have never seen a puppy that would immediately
start chewing on anything put in front of him. It's the way puppies
explore their world.

> and the butcher could not grind one up for me, ...

That the butcher wouldn't grind a bone is a good think for both you
and the puppy.

> so I ordered a 4lb. bag of the dehydrated, add raw meat to it and
> he is loving it.

Thats a bad thing. If you put a filet mignon in a pile of garbage,
the filet becomes garbage, the garbage does not become filet.

> It is good to see him dive into his food instead of
> eyeballing it with disdain and confusion.

If he hasn't been diving into his raw food before, you were doing
something wrong. I don't have a clue what it was but something.

I suggest you list exactly what you have been feeding him and how and
I'm sure you can get some help on how to proceed.

Is your puppy underweight? Is he proper size for his age? Is he
energetic? Is his coat nice looking? Can you see/feel any ribs? if
so, how many? Can you see his hip bone? Spine? Were his stools
loose before you introduced the dehydrated junk?

Dehydrated has its uses such as extended camping trips or back
packing, but not as a regular part of a diet.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Need a logical response
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:24 am ((PST))

"diannem200400" <diannem200400@...> wrote:
I have an old guy with bad teeth and
> I cut up his meat for him. I missed cutting a piece of pork and he
got
> one about the size of a baseball. He swallowed it and it got stuck.
*****
First off, let me congratulate you for keeping your wits about you.
They're not dead til they're dead and until then you just do what you
did. You really are a good raw feeder, regardless of how you or your
husband feel right now...or how your husband is making you feel.
Good job.

Second, the easiest way to avoid the problem (and you are not alone I
assure you) is to feed way bigger or way smaller. In that regard
your husband has a point. I know what size not to feed my dogs (what
size is the "unhappy medium" for each dog). And if I cannot provide
appropriately larger whacks of food, I feed smaller and there really
is no compromise. For my dogs, a baseball of meat is precisely what
I do not feed. I will cut a pork baseball into a bunch of pork
pingpong balls, guaranteed. For my cats, pork pingpong balls get cut
into pork marbles. Done and done.

Experience has shown me that feeding significantly larger food wads
quickly disabuse my dogs of the notion they can somehow eat it in one
swallow. It seems that if their enthusiasm is stymied by complicated
(or simply plain old "large") food, they settle down to eating
sensibly. I suspect the effort gives them time to think.

I find that feeding meat "on the bone" reduces the chance of baseball
gluttony but if the meal gets to looking iffy I absolutely will take
the hunk from the dog, cut it up and feed it in smaller pieces.

Another option with meat in the potential danger zone is
to "butterfly" it by slicing it open like a book which makes it look
larger. You can also cut slices into the meat which effectively
turns the wad into a bunch of connected ribbons, each of which is
generally unthreatening. Changing the shape from round to anything
can revise the dog's opinion of its swallowing abilities.

For weakening seniors and any physically challenged dog I have no
qualms about making the food as easy as it needs to be. If your
senior needs help, help him. Better to cut up the iffy food than not
provide it at all.

Find the middle ground and instead of seeking it, avoid it.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

4b. Re: Need a logical response
Posted by: "Shelly" stuartjlittle@verizon.net stuartjeanlittle
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:26 am ((PST))

A similar thing happened with our BC, Trixie. I agree completely with Chris
O, that's exactly what we do since Trixie's incident. She had a baseball
(slightly larger) size chunk of beef tongue and tried to swallow it. My
husband did the same thing you did, but while he was reaching in trying to
get it out, she passed out completely and lost her bowels at the same time.
She was completely limp and he thought she was dead. He started panicking,
and picked her up and shook her. That somehow must have dislodged it and it
went on down rather than back out of her mouth. She started breathing again,
was extremely clingy and meekish for the next few days, but DID NOT learn her
lesson. We do what Chris does, but what I will also do sometimes is just
hold her meat for her to chew and when she tries to swallow I pull on it so
she has to chew more, she seems to understand. I even switch sides so both
sides of her teeth can get cleaned. We still hand the other two their big
chunks, they're good chewers and we don't worry about them (although NO ONE
eats unsupervised anymore, if he hadn't been watching, Trixie would be dead).

Shelly

On Sunday 23 December 2007 00:56, diannem200400 wrote:
He swallowed it and it got stuck. I had my hand down his throat up to my wrist
and could not get the slippery thing out. He passed out and we thought he
had died. I kept digging anyway and got it out and he finally took a breath.
Dianne M.

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________

4c. Re: Need a logical response
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:26 am ((PST))

Thank you, Cris and Heather. All is well today. The old guy was able
to eat his pingpong! size pork last night without incident. I
generally am in the immediate vicinity of the dogs while they are
eating so will keep a closer eye out on food as it is consumed to be
sure that it doesn't get to a dangerous size or shape.

Chriso75@...> wrote:

if the meal gets to looking iffy I absolutely will take
> the hunk from the dog, cut it up and feed it in smaller pieces.
Better to cut up the iffy food than not
> provide it at all.
>
> Find the middle ground and instead of seeking it, avoid it.
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

5a. Re: Raw and Addison's disease
Posted by: "m_smedick" m_smedick@yahoo.com m_smedick
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:38 am ((PST))

Hi Joanne, I know this message is a bit late in coming, and I do apologize for that. I just
wanted to let you know that my Standard Poodle, Sinclair, was diagnosed with Addisons
disease in September of 2006. I switched him to raw food in June of 2007 with no trouble
at all. What you, or was it your friends dog? need to remember is that you change
NOTHING with a dog with Addisons UNLESS their electrolytes are stable. This is done by
properly medicating the dog. Properly medicating a dog with Addisons is easy after
finding how much of what works, and checking their electrolytes to make sure that the last
"stable dose" is still working. After that you can feel free to switch the diet. Doing it too
soon after diagnosis could be bad, because part of the Addison 'crash' is trouble with the
digestive track. So letting that heal first and getting the dog to LIKE eating again would be
a good thing. Probiotics at that time are a very good idea. Many vets are not VERY
educated in Addisons, nor are they in nutrition, your vet may frown on the idea, Sinclair
vet did not, but he did say that I NEED to add salt to his food since he is no longer getting
the salt that is in kibble. This is WRONG, the 'salt' replacement comes from the
medication. Small things like that you need to be very careful of, and also be VERY careful
NOT to feed a dog with Addisons any Potassium RICH foods. I hope this was helpful, at
least a little bit, and if you/your friend have any other questions about Addisons please
feel free to contact me of list, or join one of the Addisons groups if not already a member.
There are 2 that i am a member of, one of them is Addisonsdogs and the other is
K9Addisons. Best of luck, Michele

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Joanne Thompson <tho0123@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have experience in feeding their Addison's dog a raw diet or
> switching them over once they've been diagnosed?
>
> Joanne Thompson
> Black Diamond Kennels
> Working Giant Schnauzers
> Bellvue, CO 80512
>

Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

6. frozen??
Posted by: "joan" joanlante@yahoo.ca joanlante
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:26 am ((PST))

Hi...I'm a little new at this and my friend picked up some boxes of
frozen butcher scraps...now one box seems to be a mix of bones...the
other sawed beef? and another sawed porc??? not sure...he saws his meet
not sorted frozen and then the scraps go outside ...I just took the axe
and broke some chunks put it in a bucket of hot water for a minute and
then dropped it on the snow...the dogs (saint-bernard...lab,newf mix)
loved it....is butcher scraps ok containing porc?

joan

Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

7a. Whole chickens
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:26 am ((PST))

I just bought 2 whole chickens for my dobergirls. When feeding whole chickens do I cut one in half? Feed it whole, seems like a lot.

I also bought liver, pound packages. Feed alone or in small pieces with chicken quarters? Is two quarters to much for one days food. Is a 1.5 a whole days feeding or one feeding of 2 a day?

My girls weigh 60 and appx 65 pounds apiece. Pretty active.

Sherrel

____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

7b. Re: Whole chickens
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:25 am ((PST))

>I just bought 2 whole chickens for my dobergirls. When feeding whole
chickens do I cut one in half?

Hi. Are you just starting out for rawfeeding for your dog? If so,I recommend to cut to your dog's portion that way,you can avoid overfeeding leading to runny poo or diarrhea.

And you wrote 60-65lb is doberman's good weight and being very active you say,so,maybe 3% feeding will be your starting point.

Well,I do not have carriculator with me now but to figure out how much you feed,carriculate following.

65x16x0.03

This will give you daily total ounce you need to feed as starting point with 3% feeding guideline.

Then,you can devide that amount to 2 feeding;one for morning,other for dinner.

I was afraid of overfeeding so,I did not feed whole anything from right off the batt.And I also wanted to avoid too much new food in one sitting so,I devided to 2 feeding when beginning.
After 8 months of being rawfeeding,I throw in big hunk of meat for my dog to tackle and then,I take meal away when I think she had enough for now. I still do not feed until she stop eating. Maybe some more later.

So,back to your chicken question.YOu get the ounce number after carriculating avobe and,you cut the chicken to that portion and if you ,like me,afraid of feeding new food too much in one sitting,you just take the meal away when you think your dog had enough for one sitting and feed the rest later that day.I cut poultry to the dog portion;any poultry.Does not matter if it were Turkey or pheasant or chicken or Duck.Any poultry,I cut to dog portion and i feed to my dog.

When you just starting out,too much fat in meal,too much new thing in one sitting,too much new thing too soon leads you to runny poo or diarrhea. So,try baby step.THer is no such rule that you must feed one protin one week. So,if your dog seem to digest the chicken pretty good after 4-5 days,you can add new thing(only one new thing) to that meal and move on to the other protin OR,keep your dog on chicken still and give smidge of liver or kidney etc,and after your dog did good on organ and chicken,you can move on to..say,beef as well.What you would feed is really depend on what available and what you like to feed.No rule on what you feed next.You decide,

Feed it whole, seems like a lot.

>I also bought liver, pound packages. Feed alone or in small pieces
with chicken quarters?

Well,if you just started,don't feed organ yet.AFTER you see your dog digesting pretty good,give smidge of organ to the chicken meal and increase to organ portion,and change chicken to say Beef with chicken organ. That is how i did. Some people hold off organ feeding much later but I fed on 2nd week.It is up to you,Just don't give too much right off the bat.

You also can look past archive on how to start out the feeding a lot.

Hope I helped you a bit,

yassy

---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________

7c. Re: Whole chickens
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:23 pm ((PST))

Thanks Yassy
I have been feeding home cooked with chicken for years. My dog Daisy is doing very well on this. But I got a second 16 month old dober girl and cooking became a little much. So I began adding more veggies and rice to the mx but then became concerned about the amount of carbs. Hence the switch to raw.

>I just bought 2 whole chickens for my dobergirls. When feeding whole
chickens do I cut one in half?
*****I guess I need to cut the chickens up. Cut the chickens up into pieces because I feed twice a day.

Hi. Are you just starting out for rawfeeding for your dog? If so,I recommend to cut to your dog's portion that way,you can avoid overfeeding leading to runny poo or diarrhea.
yes I am just starting with raw feeding. I have been adding raw to their food for 2 or 3 weeks but today is their very first all raw day. So I have been weaning off the cooked and onto the raw. But as yet their has been no stomach problems or diarrhea. SO Far!! I am still feed chicken. I buy bags of chicken quarters. This is what I have been cooking so I am just going with them for the switch over. But I found some whole chickens for .99 cents a pound this morning. So I got two and 4 lbs of frozen liver. I am thinking (already defrosted) of adding slivers to the morning feed.
And you wrote 60-65lb is doberman's good weight and being very active you say,so,maybe 3% feeding will be your starting point.

Well,I do not have carriculator with me now but to figure out how much you feed,carriculate following.

65x16x0.03

OK for Daisy, dobe, 4 years old, I got 1.8 lbs or 28.8 oz total daily food allowance. Lilly, 16 months old, dobe I got 1.95 or 31.2 oz total daily food allowance.

Like you I am unsure about feeding too much (I hate diarrhea , I really hate cleaning it up!!!) to soon. and I have fed 2 feedings all my life so going to one is unsettling for me too.

Thanks again.
Sherrel Daisy and LillyRecent Activity
100New Members
Visit Your Group
Real Food Group
Share recipes
and favorite meals
w/ Real Food lovers.
Yahoo! Groups
Going Green
Share your passion
for the planet.
Yahoo! Groups
Endurance Zone
b/c every athlete
needs an edge..

____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

8a. Re: Looking for advice, support, guidance with Dobe
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:14 am ((PST))

I have a question about feeding puppies?

CG -- you feed a puppy no differently than an adult, except you feed smaller meals, and more often. I weaned my litter this year onto raw, and fed them chicken for about a week, then started introducing different proteins immediately. By six weeks, they were eating all of the split chicken breasts, including the bone. By eight weeks, they had eaten pork, beef heart, fish, venison, elk, and turkey in addition to the chicken.
Just curious!??
If you are raw feeding the mother would the puppies be eating right along with her? Did you feed them seperate from her? Would they just eat whatever she is eating? Did you just start with chicken because of their teeth coming in?
Sherrel

Recent Activity
105New Members
Visit Your Group
Yahoo! Groups
Real Food Group
Share recipes
and favorite meals.
Moderator Central
Yahoo! Groups
Get the latest news
from the team.
Yahoo! Groups
Wellness Spot
A resource for living
the Curves lifestyle..

____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

9.1. Re: So I decided to switch
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:14 am ((PST))

I would say its likley that the pis feet could be causing the gas..

I gave mine pork ribs yesterday and today, stools fine but more of them and we are all suffering the effects of his gas tonight!!!

Natalie

---------------------------------
Sent from Yahoo! &#45; a smarter inbox.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (33)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

10a. Re: Relevant to several threads -runny stools/ lack of appetite/ wei
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:25 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "sisterloui" <habershon@...>
wrote:
>
> I was taught this mimics the feeding cycle in the wild, ie
> they would often NOT catch prey and eat every day.

I imagine that there ARE days that preditors don't catch prey and
thefore don't eat that day. I don't think its a concious choice
that the preditor makes. I think it just happens because of
circumstances and if the preditor had a choice "starving days" would
never happen in the wild.

> Our habit of feeding everyday at a regular time doesnt give the
> gut time to recover.

Recover from what? Unless there is some digestive upset, there is
nothing to recover from. I agree that possibly an unhealthy animal
may choose not to eat but not on a regular basis.

I don't think that a healthy wild dog/wolf will think, "I need to
clean out my system, I don't think I'll eat today." If food is
available he will eat. Therefore mimicing something that is not
desirable for a healthy animal is not desirable.

I am a proponent of regular feeding times simply because dogs are
animals living and depending on an alien species(humans) for all the
necessities of life. If they can know what to expect and when, life
is naturally more comfortable for them.

> If my dogs do get runny stools they again were starved for
> 24 hours
> to allow "whatever" had caused it to leave the system then feeding
> would start again with a very low fat high protein and small meal.

Now you are talking about unhealthy dogs. Thats a different matter.

> I am never concerned if my dogs are off their food for a few days,
> more than a week though and i would be calling on the vet to have
> them checked over.

I am concerned if my dogs don't eat for a day because its a symptom
that something is not right. If one of my dogs doesn't eat for 2
days, I would be VERY converned, not because it will necessarily
harm them, but because it is an indicator that something is wrong.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

11a. Little poo question
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:25 am ((PST))

Hello all, and happy puppydays to everyone.

I have my Two great danes, and am used to feeding on a giant scale. Then we acquired my Aunt's pomchi, so I had to learn to do it on a teeny scale, and with your help I did. :)

So, we just got a little Chihuahua puppy to be a playmate for out pomchi, and he's already taken with the raw diet, we knew he would be.

Here is my problem:

His poos sometimes come out already dry and hard, which make him cry and scream very very loud, like it's really painful, and I'm sure it is. They are so dry it's like poos that have been outside for a day or two you could almost call them dusty.

I have had him for two weeks, he was on ground rabbit, whole ground rabbits, for the first week, then we went to ground chicken, whole ground chickens, only because I ran out of the rabbit. So he gets the organs and the bones with everything.

I am also still trying to figure out how much to feed him, so that he doesn't barf at night time. He is 2.4 pounds. So I am just giving him spoonfulls of meat when he seems hungry. I don't feed him after 7 pm. and that has helped with the barfing. Now I need to figure out how to adjust the food so his stools come out somewhat softer, I think that they need to be softer, since they already seem to be coming out dryer than I think they should be.

Any help would be great.

I was thinking maybe just some ground meat, or meaty chunks without bone already in it?

Poor little fellow, he's loving the food, but hating the pooping. But in his defense, he's making it to the piddle pads, good little fellow;)

Jeni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

11b. Re: Little poo question
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:55 pm ((PST))

Hi Jeni,

I think you're right--you need more meat. I'd try alternating what
you're feeding with some boneless bits of meat. I wonder if the
ground meat you're getting has had more bone added to it? I think
some of the ground products have quite a lot of bone since it's
cheaper than meat. Do you know how much bone it has? But even if it
is actually just a whole rabbit or chicken, ground, that just may be
too much for your guy right now (or ever).

Good luck,

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, John and Jeni Blackmon
<jonjeni777@...> wrote:

> His poos sometimes come out already dry and hard, which make him
cry and scream very very loud, like it's really painful, and I'm sure
it is. They are so dry it's like poos that have been outside for a
day or two you could almost call them dusty.

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

11c. Re: Little poo question
Posted by: "Sherrel Leininger" meawolf50@yahoo.com meawolf50
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:23 pm ((PST))

Jenni

Maybe he needs a little more fat in his diet. I mean if they are too dry add come grease.

Sherrel

____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

11d. Re: Little poo question
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:44 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, John and Jeni Blackmon
<jonjeni777@...> wrote:
>
> I have had him for two weeks, he was on ground rabbit,
> whole ground rabbits, for the first week, then we went to
> ground chicken, whole ground chickens, only because I ran out
> of the rabbit.

Stop feeding that ground stuff and your(his) problems will go away.
He may be small but he is still capable of chewing bones. I have
Danes also and I'm not experienced with small dogs but I would think
chicken wings, necks, drumsticks, and thighs would be good for him.
Also pork meat, beef meat, deer meat, goat meat will all be good.
He could get his bones from the chicken parts and more meat from the
other animals.

For quick results, feed him a half a meal of liver and things will
soften up immediately.

> So he gets the organs and the bones with everything.

But you have no idea how much of each he gets.

> I am also still trying to figure out how much to feed him, so
> that he doesn't barf at night time. He is 2.4 pounds. So I
> am just giving him spoonfulls of meat when he seems hungry.

I'm guessing you are feeding him a lot more than you think you are
if you feed him everytime he LOOKS hungry. He can learn to LOOK
hungry very easily. :) :) :)

Is he full grown or still a puppy?

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

12a. Re: Hip Dysplasia
Posted by: "Lynette Friedrichs" lraefried@sbcglobal.net cherrysmomma
Date: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:55 pm ((PST))

Hi, I know this is OT but it may help others so I thought I should post for all to see.

I do not know what type of anti inflamatory your vet is giving you but
most of the meds given for arthritis/HD have bad side effects. Alot of
them can or do damage the liver and other organs. My baby, Cherry, is
going to be 4 and she was diagnosed with arthritis and HD when she was
about 2. I have done lots of research and most people say that you
need to try different glucosamine/chondriotin/MSM treatments because
some work better than others for different dogs. You give each
treatment till it is gone or at least 6-8 weeks and keep track of how
they are doing. Then try another one if the one you are using is not
working that well.

And a great natural pain killer/anti inflamatory pill is DGP. It works fairly well for Cherry. You can read about it at this link
http://www.doggonepain.com/

and if you do a search for it you can find it for cheaper price. I get mine from here. http://betterhealthinternational.com/productDetails.asp_Q_prodID_E_3326

Good luck,
Lynette

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

All information on this list represents personal opinion only. By staying on this list, you agree to never hold anyone from this list or associated with this list liable for any information posted through this list. You agree to take personal responsibility for your learning, and for personal responsibility for what you feed yourself, your family, and your dogs, cats, ferrets, or any other animal that lives under your care. If you don't agree, please unsubscribe immediately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:rawfeeding-normal@yahoogroups.com
mailto:rawfeeding-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
rawfeeding-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------------------------------------------------