[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12338

There are 10 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. puppy chocking on food
From: vickies_28
1b. Re: puppy chocking on food
From: Giselle
1c. Re: puppy chocking on food
From: katkellm
1d. Re: puppy chocking on food
From: Chia

2. Re: Calcium - advice needed
From: noneedman@aol.com

3a. Bone/ Meat ratio...Archives?
From: jennifer_hell
3b. Re: Bone/ Meat ratio...Archives?
From: katkellm

4a. Re: Heartworm tx and raw
From: Cdandp2@aol.com
4b. Heartworm tx and raw
From: Cdandp2@aol.com

5. Switch
From: jetblst2002

Messages
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1a. puppy chocking on food
Posted by: "vickies_28" vickies_28@yahoo.com vickies_28
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 10:16 pm ((PST))

Hello All
my puppy has been on raw for 4 months, and has been pretty good with
chewing his food properly, not swallowing big pieces, etc. But what
happened the other day is really concerning. I was away and my husband
was feeding him what I left for him. Turkey necks. This has been given
to the dog numerous times before, small necks, large necks, no problem.
Chewed them up and all wet fine. But his time he appeared to be
cheweing, then looked like he finished since nothing was sticking out
of his mouth, and then he sat back and statring crying, loud for like 3
min. As if something was really badly hurting him. My hubby thinks that
he had trouble breathing and was choking on a piece of his food. The
situation resolved itself but now I am so scared of giving him turkey
necks and any other food that it not chopped up in small pieces.
Anybody can advise on what it might have been? Any advice?
Vickie

Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: puppy chocking on food
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 2:42 am ((PST))

Hi, Vickie!
More info, please!

How old is your pup?

What breed?

What size/how much does he weigh?

Exactly what do you feed, besides turkey necks?

In general, turkey necks aren't a great feed, too bony, and larger breeds
and enthusiastic gulpers can get into trouble by trying to swallow them
whole, or swallow too big chunks.

I'm surmising on not a lot of info, but since you said he is a pup; he is
growing, so he may just have reached a size where the necks are problematic,
or reached an age where he is experimenting with just how big of a hunk he
can actually swallow.

At the least you need to get more meat, more variety of protein and organs
and bigger parts into his diet, if all you are feeding is turkey, or similar
bony parts.

A species appropriate whole prey model diet, which this list supports and
promotes, consists of either whole prey, (like undressed rabbits or
chickens) either cut up into parts or entire, or "FrankenPrey", (such as
pork roasts or 1/2 or 1/4 turkey parts) which consists of feeding a variety
of animal parts over time, including as much variety of protein and organs
as is possible.

The general 'rule of thumb' is to aim for about 80% meat - which consists of
muscle, fat, skin and connective tissue, including heart, gizzards and
tongue.
10% organ - 3-5% liver and 5-7% 'other', like kidney, spleen, thymus,
pancreas, etc.
10% EDIBLE bone - the softer bones of smaller animals - like chicken,
turkey, pork, lamb, rabbit, goat, fish, etc. Bones from venison or other
large herbivores, especially beef cattle, are very much harder and mostly
aren't consumable by the majority of dogs, and can harm teeth.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On Dec 1, 2007 11:37 PM, vickies_28 <vickies_28@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hello All
> my puppy has been on raw for 4 months, and has been pretty good with
> chewing his food properly, not swallowing big pieces, etc.
>

> <snip>
> Anybody can advise on what it might have been? Any advice?
> Vickie
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: puppy chocking on food
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 5:50 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "vickies_28" <vickies_28@...> wrote:
Turkey necks. This has been given
> to the dog numerous times before, small necks, large necks, no problem.

Hi Vickie,
The way to minimize the risk of a choking incident is to feed big
parts, big being compared to the size of the dog. So, to say your
puppy ate little sized necks with no problems before is akin to saying
that up til now you have been lucky. Real tom turkey necks are almost
a foot long and, aside from being bony, are probably an ok food for
most dogs. The turkey necks that come from the stores, at least the
ones that i have seen, are cut into smaller sections and just
encourage a dog to swallow whole. I think some of it has to do with
their skinny shape. Anyway, the whole think is fixable, not by
feeding cut up smaller pieces, but by feeding things bigger than
turkey necks or at least feeding whole tom turkey necks. I consider
tom turkey necks another of the "know thy dog" areas of raw feeding. I
believe grocery store turkey necks are best to be avoided. JMO, KathyM

Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: puppy chocking on food
Posted by: "Chia" chia.m@shaw.ca cia22m
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 6:24 am ((PST))

Hello All
my puppy has been on raw for 4 months, and has been pretty good with
chewing his food properly, not swallowing big pieces, etc. But what
happened the other day is really concerning. I was away and my husband
was feeding him what I left for him. Turkey necks. This has been given
to the dog numerous times before, small necks, large necks, no problem.
Chewed them up and all wet fine. But his time he appeared to be
cheweing, then looked like he finished since nothing was sticking out
of his mouth, and then he sat back and statring crying, loud for like 3
min. As if something was really badly hurting him. My hubby thinks that
he had trouble breathing and was choking on a piece of his food. The
situation resolved itself but now I am so scared of giving him turkey
necks and any other food that it not chopped up in small pieces.
Anybody can advise on what it might have been? Any advice?
Vickie

#### I am unsure as to how large your puppy is but the answer is as simple
as feeding as HUGE as possible. Take a half a chicken or a huge chunk of
turkey and let your pup have at it!

Feeding bits and pieces of body parts isn't always taboo, but that is more
for advanced or experienced dogs. I know my dog so well and if I get a
great deal on a case of chicken backs/necks, I'll feed these with a chicken
quarter as well.

I much prefer giving my boy whole chickens but bits and pieces is so
affordable at times.

However, for a hungry, growing pup with limited experience, bits and pieces
of feeding is not always a great idea, even if went fine many times before.
Even with older dogs, it's that old mantra 'know thy dog'. Wisdom comes
with time and your pup will be a pro before long.

Feed huge...take it away once done or you feel it is enough and give the
rest of it at the next feeding. Cutting things up small is an invitation to
choking/gulping NOT the other way around! You need your pup to learn how to
eat properly and babying him along is not the way.

Chie & Ricco

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Messages in this topic (4)
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2. Re: Calcium - advice needed
Posted by: "noneedman@aol.com" noneedman@aol.com noneedman
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 1:52 am ((PST))

Hi,

I am new to the group and have been lurking for a while now. I have a
problem that I need a quick answer to. I have a tribe of ten raw fed dogs of
various size. My toy dogs just whelped, first raw litter, and one seized up
yesterday due to calcium deficiency. Naturally my vet took this as a time to
tell me again that my dogs need a balanced dog food diet, I do not believe this,
but I do not want this to happen again. I am bottle feeding now while she
recoups, but any help on how to keep this from happening will be great. Oh
yeah,. right now I feed basically grocery store meat with a tsp. of kelp
vegetarian blend supplement. No one showed any problems up until now, and
pregnancy went fine, two still born during whelping, now I am wondering if it had to
do with the calcium. Thanks in advance for any help.

Jessica C.

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Messages in this topic (1)
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________________________________________________________________________

3a. Bone/ Meat ratio...Archives?
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 1:52 am ((PST))

I think I read estimates somewhere of the bone/ meat ratio of
different prey animals? Can someone point me there?
I don't know how to find it (which terms to search for).

Thank you!

Jennifer

Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: Bone/ Meat ratio...Archives?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 5:50 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jennifer_hell" <jenniferhell@...>
wrote:
>> I think I read estimates somewhere of the bone/ meat ratio of
> different prey animals? Can someone point me there?
> I don't know how to find it (which terms to search for).
>

Hi Jennifer,
Is this what you were looking for?

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/55017

KathyM

Messages in this topic (2)
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________________________________________________________________________

4a. Re: Heartworm tx and raw
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 5:50 am ((PST))

My rescue cocker was diagnosed with moderate/high heartworm (could see them
on x-rays and, of course, antigen positive) almost 2 years ago. I decided
not to put him through the conventional treatment (given his age and trauma
history) but DID switch him to raw (he suffered enormously from apparent
allergies, horribly itchy and red skin, chewing at himself, sniffly with drippy nose
and runny eyes, smelly ears, coughing, etc..

I thought alot of that was secondary to the heartworms compromising his
immune system. But after almost 9 months on raw, the little guy is transofmred.
He still suffers from itchies from time to time (starting to see relation to
when they "mop" (truthfully "smear") the hallway/lobby floors (larger
apartment building) with nostril-stinging chemicals...sigh....

But overall the itching is tremendously improved, he sleeps better, no more
sneezing and wheezing, runny nose and eyes improved, ears significantly
improved.

I don't know about the heartworms. I'm assuming they're still in there
doing their thing (sigh), but for now my guy seems to be enjoying his days (which
was my goal)...chasing his tennis ball every morning...sniffing around the
bushes and his dog friends at the park....and overall just being the sweet
blessing that he is.

The only concern I'd have about raw if he's doing conventional would be that
he not get too worked up chewing and ripping/shredding the food. It's
critical to keep them really quiet/calm during those treatment months between
injections.

Best to you and yours.
Carol

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Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Heartworm tx and raw
Posted by: "Cdandp2@aol.com" Cdandp2@aol.com cdandp
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 5:50 am ((PST))

p.s. From Carol...

Regarding getting worked up while eating raw, etc....see the post about
"panting" later in this digest.

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Messages in this topic (4)
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________________________________________________________________________

5. Switch
Posted by: "jetblst2002" bosboy101@mac.com jetblst2002
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 5:50 am ((PST))

I have made the switch as of last night all 8 dogs are now on raw. The
puppy coming next week will also be put right onto raw. All dogs but
one has taken to it rally well. The one that is not taking to it likes
the necks but nothing else. I hope that will change in time as I have
no though of going back. So here's to a new start.

I want to thank everyone that has helped me with my questions leading
up to this very important switch. As I go forward I hope the nerves
settle and it becomes 2nd nature to me. Again thanks for all the great
information.

Travis
Muddy River

Messages in this topic (1)
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