[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12249

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Husband thinks dog is still hungry
From: Morledzep@aol.com
1b. Re: Husband thinks dog is still hungry
From: kaebruney

2a. Re: Rotten eggs
From: Morledzep@aol.com
2b. Re: Rotten eggs
From: Cheryl Younesi

3.1. Re: still swallowing whole
From: delcaste

4a. Re: Anyone raise rabbits for feed?
From: Giselle

5a. Re: Diarrhea and vomiting seem unusual: opinions, please
From: sarahfalkner
5b. Re: Diarrhea and vomiting seem unusual: opinions, please
From: Giselle
5c. Re: Diarrhea and vomiting seem unusual: opinions, please
From: sarahfalkner

6a. Shoulder bones
From: krystal_brr
6b. Re: Shoulder bones
From: John and Jeni Blackmon

7a. Re: New Puppy Vomiting
From: Giselle

8a. Re: 5 Dogs New to Raw Two Weeks
From: Giselle

9a. Re: are pig's feet okay?
From: Giselle
9b. Re: are pig's feet okay?
From: Dawn Taylor
9c. price of turkey, chicken; freezer question
From: Penny Sanford Fikes
9d. Re: are pig's feet okay?
From: girlndocs

10a. Re: Pregnancy question again
From: diannem200400
10b. Re: Pregnancy question again
From: diannem200400

11a. Questions about preparing/packaging/freezing venison
From: Penny Sanford Fikes

12a. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
From: Loraine Jesse
12b. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
From: Sandee Lee
12c. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
From: Loraine Jesse
12d. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
From: Sandee Lee

13a. Re: Not a noob but i need help!
From: Loraine Jesse

Messages
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1a. Re: Husband thinks dog is still hungry
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 2:04 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 11/6/2007 6:39:00 AM Pacific Standard Time,
m.chelap@sbcglobal.net writes:

Dh is also worried about eventually fasting the dog. Do we feed him a
bigger meal the
day before a fast? Do most people fast the dog once a week?

Michelle,

tinier dogs often need more than the 2 - 3% recommended guideline. The best
thing to do is watch your dog and check his waist to see if he's gaining or
losing weight.

If he starts losing weight with what you're feeding now, then you need to
increase the amount he's being fed.

Dogs are naturally hungry all the time.. never let a dog tell you he's
hungry, he's lying.

As for fasting, there is no specific need to fast a dog if you're feeding the
same amount every day. some folks feed big food and skip days inbetween BIG
meals. Some folks feed big food one day and small meals the next day. it's
all in how you choose to feed your dog, and how your dog wants to eat.

I personally feed the dogs about every other day.. sometimes more when they
start looking skinny..

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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1b. Re: Husband thinks dog is still hungry
Posted by: "kaebruney" kaebruney@yahoo.com kaebruney
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 4:15 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mmc2315" <m.chelap@...> wrote:

> Dh is worried that the dog seems "constantly hungry and wants more".
I'm saying we don't want an overweight dog, and feeding once a day
should be okay, and 2-3% of ideal body weight is what we are shooting
for.

I feed my rat terrier/chi mix almost 4% of his body weight a day
because I was told that smaller dogs need the additional food. He
still has a nice tight tuck and good muscle tone for such a little
guy. Maybe you can increase your feeding size by 1% and see if that
helps over several days.

> Dh is also worried about eventually fasting the dog. Do we feed
him a bigger meal the day before a fast? Do most people fast the dog
once a week?

I don't fast often, but when I do it's after a full feast day. The
dogs split a whole chicken often doubling their food volume in the
process.

Also, the day following their fast is usually the organ meal day as it
seems the only time I can get them to eat their organs in entirety.
Any sort of mixing or adding to another meals lets them get away
without eating it. *sigh*

Something that has helped me with the foraging effect - dog going
around the house as though he is looking for food, was to crate or put
the dogs out immediately after they finish eating. This helps to end
the feeding time and when they come back out all the food and bowls
are up for the night.

Tell the DH not to worry. A slim dog is a happy dog. :0)

Kae

Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. Re: Rotten eggs
Posted by: "Morledzep@aol.com" Morledzep@aol.com morledzep
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 2:10 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 11/6/2007 10:44:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,
bpskarma@yahoo.com writes:

I know they can eat old meat but how about old eggs?

Taj,

if they are just past the expiration date on the box it's not a problem. if
they are so old that they are rotten on the inside.. then, no.. they aren't
even wolf chow at that point.

Catherine R.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Rotten eggs
Posted by: "Cheryl Younesi" CYounesi@mac.com cyounesi
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 4:00 pm ((PST))

Here's how to test whether an egg is still safe to be eaten by a human.
Fill a bowl with water (deep enough for the egg to sit on the bottom
with water covering 2 or more inches).
If the egg sits on the bottom on it's side, it's very fresh.
If the egg sits on the bottom, tip up towards the ceiling; it's still
okay to eat.
If the egg bounces a little, but is still sitting on the bottom,
basically; then it's okay to eat.
If the egg starts floating off the bottom, it may be iffy.
If the egg floats to the top, time to discard.
This is for raw eggs and for feeding to people. I'm thinking that if it
floats to the top, it's probably still okay to give to dogs????? What
does the group think?
Cheryl

Messages in this topic (5)
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3.1. Re: still swallowing whole
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 2:30 pm ((PST))

> Hi Silvina,
> You have learned to feed bigger portions. You asked and learned and
> fixed the problem. You have done a wonderful job for your gulper.
> You had the gumption to stick with it, and i think you have done a
> fantastic job with your dog. Now, do something nice for yourself.
> Relax. Permit yourself to release the past and focus on all the
> wonderful big meals ahead. KathyM

I needed that :), thanks, KathyM

Silvina

Messages in this topic (34)
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4a. Re: Anyone raise rabbits for feed?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 2:38 pm ((PST))

Hi, Jay!
I don't raise rabbits, or any critters right now, but there are
Yahoo! Groups email lists 'out there' for those that do. This is one;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Meatrabbits/

I found this site just by Googling 'meat rabbits how to website';
http://www.rudolphsrabbitranch.com/rrr.htm

If buns prove not to be a viable proposition for you to feed your dogs, why
not research raising rodents, such as hamsters or guinea pigs? The
information is out there, if you just Google it. ^_^

Why don't you post over at raw chat? Thats where we go to discuss topics
that go OT for raw feeding.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 11/6/07, jaygaughan <jaygaughan@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you everyone for your replies.
>
> Yes, I did think they bred like rabbits. I guess that's just a myth.
>
> I thought it was going to be just me putting a few cages together and
> letting them get to work multiplying.
>
> Maybe I'll raise Raccoons. Those things seem to breed like crazy around
> here. They ate our 3 Peeking ducks and this morning there were 6 of
> them in my yard for breakfast. Couple hanging off my bird feeders
> dropping hands full of seeds to their buddies.
>
> Jay
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (10)
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5a. Re: Diarrhea and vomiting seem unusual: opinions, please
Posted by: "sarahfalkner" Sarah.Falkner@gmail.com sarahfalkner
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 3:02 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
However, the first time my newf mix pup ate
> beef heart he went all out and ate the whole thing. He had
> freakishly loose stools that smelled horrible for about a day and a
> half and he wasn't much interested in food during that time.

Thanks, Andrea, that is helpful to know your dog's experience. Since we've added so many
things to the cats' diets over the past year with no troubles, and he loved the lamb heart last
week, I was having a hard time believing just a double-dose of lamb heart could make him
feel this lousy and for this long! Also, I'd thought the smell might indicate a pathogen. Well,
right now Henry's visiting the litterbox less and less, but he still doesn't want anything to
drink or nibble.

Best,

Sarah
& furry crew

Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. Re: Diarrhea and vomiting seem unusual: opinions, please
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 3:04 pm ((PST))

Hi, Sarah!
Poor Henry!

I'd offer plenty of broth, chicken or beef, low sodium/low fat of course, if
you use store bought. That should keep him from getting dehydrated. You
could also mix in some Slippery Elm Bark Powder to soothe his digestive
system.
I order it online, but you can get it loose or in caps from a health food
store.

This link lists sources for SEBP in the UK;
http://www.dealtime.co.uk/xDN-nutrition--herbs-slippery_elm
You might be able to suss out where to get it from the brand names.

If he won't drink it, you might want to use an eye dropper to give him a
couple tsp to give him the taste for it. I'd also confine him, under
supervision, so that he doesn't get into anything else if he starts feeling
hungry.

He may have gotten some bacterial infection from the cached meat, and you
may need to vet him anyway, but if he will take in the broth and SEBP, they
can help support him during his recovery.

Once he is able to keep solid food down, mixing SEBP into mince and feeding
him a couple small meatballs every few hours can soothe his irritated and
inflamed gut while getting nutritious meat into him.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/145285

TC and let us know how Henry does!
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

ps - We may get sent off to raw chat - if so, I'll see you there, or you can
PM me;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/

On 11/6/07, sarahfalkner <Sarah.Falkner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello! I also posted this on rawcat, sorry for duplicates.
>
> Sorry to add to the plethora of postings about diarrhea and vomiting!
> Newbies, please
> don't be alarmed! Let me just say upfront, this is unusual in our
> household, raw has been
> great!!!
>
> <snip>
>

I boiled a drumstick (removed the skin and fat first) in
> some water for about 10 minutes to flavor and warm the water to make it
> more appealing
> and add some electrolytes, strained and cooled it, and offered him some of
> that, but he is
> not interested. I imagine if I still had diarrhea, I wouldn't be
> interested either in anything
> that remotely smelled like food, but I thought it was worth a try. I will
> offer it again before
> we go to sleep, and of course, plain water is out all the time should he
> want it. Do people
> think that's ok or am I being too cavalier about dehydration?
>
> Hopefully, Henry will be a lot better tomorrow, and I will be able to
> offer him some plain
> bland chicken and keep him on that for a few days at least. But if anyone
> thinks I should
> take more or faster action, please let me know!
>
> Thanks!!!
>
> Sarah, hominid
> Henry & Ivan, felidae
> Quercus & Ilex, mustelidae
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (5)
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5c. Re: Diarrhea and vomiting seem unusual: opinions, please
Posted by: "sarahfalkner" Sarah.Falkner@gmail.com sarahfalkner
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 5:03 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Sarah!
> Poor Henry!
>
> I'd offer plenty of broth, chicken or beef, low sodium/low fat of course, if
> you use store bought. That should keep him from getting dehydrated. You
> could also mix in some Slippery Elm Bark Powder to soothe his digestive
> system.
> ps - We may get sent off to raw chat - if so, I'll see you there, or you can
> PM me;
> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/

Hi Giselle,

thanks so much for all the info and suggestions! I can get SEBP at a health food store in
the next town (I use it for human sore throats too). henry seems comfortable resting and
is visiting the box ever less. He wouldn't drink broth willingly but I got a teaspoon of it
into him without particular struggle and while he didn't want to willingly drink more, he
didn't gag or retch either. He also had a, uh, slightly more-formed stool (it is only
immense love for this cat that could ever make me want to look so closely or go into such
detail) which seems like a good sign... well it's late here in Ireland and I'm tired from
concern all day, I'll check out Rawchat in the morning, so long as Henry continues to get
better.

All the best,

Sarah

Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Shoulder bones
Posted by: "krystal_brr" rkbarr@hughes.net krystal_brr
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 3:02 pm ((PST))

I promise that I looked through the archives and the only mention of
shoulder bones I could find were all about pork shoulders.

My question is about Elk shoulders. I got to help someone butcher an
elk yesterday and I got all the scraps. I know what the concensus is
about leg bones, but what about the shoulder blades. There is still
quite a bit of meat on them. Not really enough for a meal, but enough
to entertain the dogs for awhile, I just wasn't sure about the bone
itself. Should I take it away when it is pretty clean?

thanks,

Krystal

Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: Shoulder bones
Posted by: "John and Jeni Blackmon" jonjeni777@sbcglobal.net jeniavidiva
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 3:29 pm ((PST))

I would take it away when they let you, you know, when they are done with it. I let my dogs tell me when they are done with it. That usually means I have stepped on it a few times, and cussed at it too:)
Wow, this reminds me of the dogs in the elk story, I still giggle when I think of that:) Man that was funny. I would go for it, probably would enjoy it a ton!
Jeni

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Messages in this topic (2)
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7a. Re: New Puppy Vomiting
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 3:15 pm ((PST))

Hi, Nicole!
Glad the pup is doing better!

You might want to introduce bone a little sooner - maybe some Game Hens,
their bones are very soft - to keep her stools from being runny.

Yes, going slowly is best, you may want to offer her several very small
meals a day for a week, gradually increasing the size and decreasing the
frequency to 3 meals a day.

You might want to treat the yard with diatomaceous earth, or at least the
area where she eliminates - hookworms shed eggs in the feces for quite a
long time, even after treatment and reinfestation is possible.
http://www.dirtworks.net/Diatomaceous-Earth.html
DE can be used in the house, on the pup and also for internal parasites, if
further worming is needed.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 11/6/07, nkjvcjs <nefreed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Update.
>
> Tallulah Belle is home. She got IV fluids, and several dewormers, was
> diagnosed with whip and hookworms. She seems much peppier today.
>
> <snip>
>

She is
> still rather underweight, so we need to go slow, but make sure she is
> getting enough to grow on.
>
> Thanks again for all of the suggestions.
>
>
> -Nicole, Eileen and Tallulah Belle
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (8)
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8a. Re: 5 Dogs New to Raw Two Weeks
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 3:21 pm ((PST))

Hi, Stephanie!
These archived posts with suggestions could help;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/130758 *

*Message #130758*

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/134336 *

*Message #134336*

You could also get some ground tripe and mix it in with her meal. I've never
heard of a dog that didn't like tripe!

TC

Giselle

with Bea in New Jersey
**

On 11/6/07, Sgagos@aol.com <Sgagos@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks, guys. She is in pretty good health, good teeth and she's about
> seven years old. She does like the ground meat but I'm afraid she'll get
> used to
> it. I'm going to try just putting the food down separately from everyone
> else and picking it back up, then repeating. If after another week of this
> she
> doesn't bite, then I'll try some beef or pork. I definitely get that my
> negative vibe is affecting her. It's a comedy routine, her and me:
> Eat, Shelly, Eat!
> Stares at me blankly.
> Come on Shelly, Eat your food, eat your food.
> I pick up the piece and give it to her in her mouth, she takes it, trying
> to
> be polite and drops
> it back down.
> I must admit I repeat the above quite a few times, cutting the meat down
> some more, taking the skin off, adding some parmesan, all with the same
> result.
> Then I walk away in huff. Fine, then!
>
> Thanks again for your input.
> Stephanie
>
>

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Messages in this topic (11)
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9a. Re: are pig's feet okay?
Posted by: "Giselle" megan.giselle@gmail.com megangiselle
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 3:36 pm ((PST))

Hi, M & M!
You can drop the stuff thats not raw meat, its expensive and
not species appropriate - and wastes your doggie $$!

'Cept for the Fish Oil - thats good - just make sure it doesn't have any
plant additives or flavorings.

Think meat, not RMB - dogs need mostly meat, a little bone, a little organ.

Dogs will vomit bone bits - BBV - when there is just too much for them to
digest. No problem, just a wake up call for you to feed more meatymeat!

Its holiday season and I've seen WHOLE turkeys on sale in the super market
for just 49 cents a pound - thats cheap!

I'm going to post a bunch of links and websites with lots of info and get
you going in the whole prey model direction.

But first, The Lis List, a creative compilation of ways to source protein
variety cheaply or for free;

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/139618*

*Post #139618*

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawlearning.com/supplementmyths.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

http://rawfeddogs.net/FAQlist

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/143301

message # 143301

The Merck Veterinary Manual: "The carbohydrates added to pet foods are
mainly in the form of polysaccharides (starch and cellulose),
disaccharides (sucrose and lactose), and monosaccharides (glucose and
fructose). Carbohydrates are a less expensive source of energy than
fat or protein. In dogs, there appears to be **no dietary requirement
for carbohydrate**."

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/144402

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/144075

*http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/141374 *

*post # 141374*
HTH
TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

On 11/6/07, greytbizz <greytbizz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> We are trying very hard to get a good nutritional mix (variety) into
> our two greyhounds without breaking the bank.
>
> <snip>
> Just looking for some reassurance I guess.
>
> M & M
>
>

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Messages in this topic (6)
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9b. Re: are pig's feet okay?
Posted by: "Dawn Taylor" dawnmarie1968@tx.rr.com dawnt91
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 4:01 pm ((PST))

"We are trying very hard to get a good nutritional mix (variety) into
our two greyhounds without breaking the bank."

----------------------------

I've got a greyhound too, and it's sometimes difficult to feed him on a budget especially since he eats 2 lbs per day. I try to stick to $1/lb or less, and that usually works well. Right now, I'm getting turkey for $.37/lb! Oh, and one for free. So load up on seasonal meats. Another cheap meat that we feed alot of here is pork picnic. These are great because they typically have skin, meat, and bone. I get pork picnic for $.99/lb. Every now and then I can find beef roasts or briscuit on sale for $.99/lb.

My recommendation is get a freezer if you haven't already. The cost of the freezer will quickly be offset by your savings when you can buy in bulk.

Also, as others have said, buy meatier meats or whole chickens/turkeys. This will help with the bone/meat ratio.

Good luck!
--------------------------------------------------

Dawn Taylor

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9c. price of turkey, chicken; freezer question
Posted by: "Penny Sanford Fikes" penny@bluebonnetmagnolia.com pennysanford2003
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 4:16 pm ((PST))

I want to shop at your grocery store! That is good for turkey. 89
cents/pound is the best I've found this year....but still looking. *grin*

We can get chicken leg quarters for 48 cents/pound right now...stocking
up . Since we have started going more raw, I've been thankful for that
price.

So much to learn since I found this group last night. I remember
reading that a dog needs about 60 percent chicken. We've got that part
covered, I think. *grin*

Er.....what are your thoughts on having to freeze the meat/bones for
later use....especially when one can grab a really good price?

It is venison season, finally! We've used up all the venison we cut up,
ground up, packaged up for dogs last season.

Penny in Mississippi
Four English Shepherds and Seven rescued Westies
www.pennysanford.typepad.com

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Giselle wrote:

Its holiday season and I've seen WHOLE turkeys on sale in the super
market for just 49 cents a pound - thats cheap!
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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9d. Re: are pig's feet okay?
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 4:17 pm ((PST))

> The alternate dinner meals are hamburger / ground pork /
> veggies / beef heart / beef liver / tripe (what is green tripe?) /
> jack mackerel all of which is sometimes supplemented with a raw egg
> (including shell) / cottage cheese / yogurt / Symons Supermix -
> powdered alfalfa, kelp, millet, buckwheat, rosehip / omega 3 fish oil

Holy oversupplementing, Batman!

The good news is you can toss out most of that stuff, including the
ground meat -- which gives you a whole lot more cash to spend on
different kinds of big old animal hunks. :)

Keep the fish oil, if you don't buy pastured meat, and eggs are fine,
but you can cross everything else off of your grocery list. Fill their
spots with whole chickens, whole turkeys, pork picnic roast, ribs and
spareribs, shoulder roasts, big old slabs of beef heart, raw mackerel,
pompano, sardines or salmon, and other goodies.

Kristin

Messages in this topic (6)
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10a. Re: Pregnancy question again
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 4:00 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, <Bordomom@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Dianne,
> I talked with a friend who also breeds DDB's. She said one of her
bitches stopped eating bone the last couple weeks before she whelped,
but ate them with gusto after. She whelped 8 pups and the other bitch
had 10. All 18 pups were weaned on raw. They all look fabulous.

Hi Wendy:

Thanks for letting me know...that is a relief to hear.

Dianne M.

Messages in this topic (18)
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10b. Re: Pregnancy question again
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 4:15 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
I also don't know that lamb has been eliminated as
> a possibility; last I read, the bitch seemed to be fond of it.
>
> Be my choice to keep offering variety until there was no no more
> offer, rather than quit trying.
> Chris O

Chris:

I'm trying lamb shanks tonight and will offer my way through Noah's Ark
if necessary! Thanks to all you long-timers (note I did not say old)
for the advice.

Dianne M.

Messages in this topic (18)
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11a. Questions about preparing/packaging/freezing venison
Posted by: "Penny Sanford Fikes" penny@bluebonnetmagnolia.com pennysanford2003
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 5:03 pm ((PST))

Tina, how do you cut up/package to freeze your venison?

We started feeding raw early this year ...and venison was the first raw
meat we tried, also plentiful on our farm in Mississippi.

How do you feel about organ meat in free-range venison?

Penny in Mississippi (I'm new....just joined last night)
4 English Shepherds
7 Rescued Westies
www.pennysanford.typepad.com

Messages in this topic (4)
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12a. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 5:03 pm ((PST))

"No need to get too hung up on the numbers, other than to make certain youare feeding lots of red meat in addition to chicken."

Question: Would this still apply to growing large breed puppies? Also would feeding a fair bit of heart instead of the beef be okay?
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

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12b. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 5:08 pm ((PST))

Absolutely! Prey model is the perfect diet for large breed pups to grow
slow and perfect. You just about cannot feed too much meat and you can't
improve on nature! :)

Heart is a wonderful source of muscle meat.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Loraine Jesse" <rothburg@hotmail.com>

>
> "No need to get too hung up on the numbers, other than to make certain
youare feeding lots of red meat in addition to chicken."
>
> Question: Would this still apply to growing large breed puppies? Also
would feeding a fair bit of heart instead of the beef be okay?

Messages in this topic (25)
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12c. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 5:29 pm ((PST))

Absolutely! Prey model is the perfect diet for large breed pups to growslow and perfect. You just about cannot feed too much meat and you can'timprove on nature! :)Heart is a wonderful source of muscle meat.Sandee & the Dane Gang

Thank-you. I needed to confirm this, do worry from time to time.
Am I correct in thinking that beef meat, pork meat, chicken meat and turkey meat are also muscle meat?
I have managed to get some really good prices on chicken pieces. Heart, kidney & liver from beef and Pork and even a bit of lamb offal. However, I am finding the pork and beef roasts to be expensive and hard on the budget. Was considering trying to get deer (road kill) but my Husband got very upset about this and put his foot down. Rabbit is way to expensive around here too. Will be looking out for Turkey sales near Xmas.
Loraine Jesse www.rothburgrottweilers.com

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Messages in this topic (25)
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12d. Re: 80/10/10 vs 'whole prey' -Large breed puppies
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 5:54 pm ((PST))

Loraine,

Meat is meat...doesn't matter the source (other than red meat should
dominate). Beef and lamb generally are more expensive but sometimes you can
find pretty good prices on beef briskets, cheeks, etc.. Just have to watch
for sales. I find pork roasts are generally pretty economical. My dogs
hate rabbit!! :)

Too bad about the venison...if you know the kill is fresh, that's an
excellent source of nice red meat...FREE!!!! :))

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Loraine Jesse" <rothburg@hotmail.com>
> Am I correct in thinking that beef meat, pork meat, chicken meat and
turkey meat are also muscle meat?
> I have managed to get some really good prices on chicken pieces. Heart,
kidney & liver from beef and Pork and even a bit of lamb offal. However, I
am finding the pork and beef roasts to be expensive and hard on the budget.
Was considering trying to get deer (road kill) but my Husband got very upset
about this and put his foot down. Rabbit is way to expensive around here
too. Will be looking out for Turkey sales near Xmas.

Messages in this topic (25)
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13a. Re: Not a noob but i need help!
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2007 5:27 pm ((PST))

"i got a new 2 month old belgian mal and wont eat raw."

Bel I would imagine your Belgian is about the size of my Rotts at 8 wks. I personally would not recommend the wing, too small and too boney. I would suggest grinding a whole chicken to start with. Put small portions into a baggy and warm it up in hot water, that should help. Then once your pups gets used to eating raw, then I would feed a whole chicken quarter, which would have more meat on it. For my peace of mind I used to give my pups the ground up chicken pieces, then when they had eaten some of it, then I would give them whole pieces of chicken to chew on. Now at a little over 10 wks they are literally eating me out of house and home and can manage the whole pieces really well. I have noticed that mine are mad for Turkey, so I would give them the drumstick and the Turkey wing to chew on. Would cut off the tips of the wing for my peace of mind. I am sure there will be others here who will give you some excellent ideas.
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com
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