[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12242

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Medicated or Non Medicated?
From: carnesbill
1b. Re: Medicated or Non Medicated?
From: ginny wilken

2a. Re: New Puppy Vomiting
From: Andrea
2b. Re: New Puppy Vomiting
From: moemahood@aol.com
2c. Re: New Puppy Vomiting
From: nkjvcjs

3a. Daily diet plan
From: K. Gordon Crawford
3b. Re: Daily diet plan
From: carnesbill
3c. Re: Daily diet plan
From: K. Gordon Crawford

4a. Re: challenges!
From: moemahood@aol.com
4b. Re: challenges!
From: Andrea
4c. Re: challenges!
From: moemahood@aol.com
4d. Re: challenges!
From: jaygaughan
4e. fish parasites (was Re: challenges)!
From: Andrea

5. Venison... Head! Directions needed.
From: Gayle

6a. Re: Pork tails and amount of fish
From: Kevin Brown

7a. Mixed protein sources
From: ncrnrgrl
7b. Re: Mixed protein sources
From: Andrea
7c. Re: Mixed protein sources
From: carnesbill
7d. Re: Mixed protein sources
From: moemahood@aol.com
7e. Re: Mixed protein sources
From: merril Woolf

8a. starving dog
From: Cris Milam

9a. Grass Eating -- MINE TOO!!
From: alexanderdewey
9b. Re: Grass Eating -- MINE TOO!!
From: cynthiashankman

10. Anyone raise rabbits for feed?
From: jaygaughan

11a. Re: First chicken thigh...serious issue?
From: carnesbill

Messages
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1a. Re: Medicated or Non Medicated?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 10:09 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:
>
> "carnesbill" <carnesw@> wrote:
> > All chicken in non medicated.
> *****
> My understanding is that there are no ADDED hormones or
antibiotics.
> Which of course leaves room to add medications that are neither
> hormones nor antibiotics. I believe there are certain medications
> poultry producers can and do use as part of the feed.
>
> Chris O
>
Nope, Occasionally antibioitics are used when a disease gets into a
chicken house but otherwise nothing is added to their food. These
chicks only live 8 to 9 weeks. There is no need to give them added
hormones or antibiotics or steriods.

If you are taking about laying hens, I have no clue about them but I
don't think many if any of us are feeding laying hens.

I would think any chemicals added to their food would be ADDED
chemicals. How else would you add them?

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (7)
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1b. Re: Medicated or Non Medicated?
Posted by: "ginny wilken" gwilken@alamedanet.net ginny439
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 11:47 am ((PST))

On Nov 5, 2007, at 9:50 AM, carnesbill wrote:

>
> I would think any chemicals added to their food would be ADDED
> chemicals. How else would you add them?
>

It's common to add meds to drinking water. Obviously, they use a lot
more than would be necessary, as one can't be sure how much a chick
will drink. Wormers can be given in food or water, and all
commercially raised chicks are "vaccinated" for Marek's, a virus. Not
sure how one would vaccinate thousands of chicks, but not likely one
at a time...

ginny and Tomo

All stunts performed without a net!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (7)
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2a. Re: New Puppy Vomiting
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 10:24 am ((PST))

Have you called around to other vets who can see her in an emergency?
I would think that a vomiting puppy who will not drink should be
squeezed in by any vet! Try making some chicken broth and see if she
will drink that. Or maybe offer the chicken breast in a bowl of
water. I suppose you could also use a syringe and squirt water into
the back of her throat to make her drink.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "nkjvcjs" <nefreed@...> wrote:

> The vet can't, or won't fit her in until tomorrow afternoon. She is
> very, very skinny. Extremely dehydrated, and vomiting bright yellow
> the entire time my mom has had her. 4-5 vomits/day.

Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: New Puppy Vomiting
Posted by: "moemahood@aol.com" moemahood@aol.com selfemployedhealth
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 11:04 am ((PST))

She has gobbled up boneless, skinless chicken breast, but will not
drink, and will not lick ice cubes. When she vomits, even within an
hour or so of eating, there is no visible food in the vomit. Just
bright yellow, slimy liquid. She has had one BM since saturday, N
color, formed.

She also has goopy eyes and is lethargic. She tries to play, then
gets tired and falls asleep after 1-2 minutes, and will not rouse,
even with loud noises. Then she wakes up and is sleepy and languid
for a long time.

I have distemper alarm bells going off in my head with the goopy eyes
and bright yellow vomit. But there haven't been any seizures, so
maybe not.

Does anyone have any suggestion of what we can do to get water into
her, or to make her feel better until she can get to the vet?

Thanks,

Nicole, Eileen (my mom)
and Tallulah-Belle (the puppy)

Nicole,

Just continue to feed her -- she is probably starving.? Let her rest and take her temperature? 99-102 is normal.? If she has been running the streets for a couple of weeks she is severly malnourished and only time and food?will cure that.? I wouldn't just jump to the distemper conclusion until you see your vet.?

Don't worry about the water, the chicken has water in it.? If she is dehydrated the vet can give her a fluid shot.? Good luck -- you did? a good thing.

?Maureen

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Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: New Puppy Vomiting
Posted by: "nkjvcjs" nefreed@gmail.com nkjvcjs
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 12:04 pm ((PST))

Thanks for the responses.

No luck with the broth, just turned her nose up at it. She vomited
again, bright yellow-green, then she started to chew her blanket. My
mom says she seemed almost desperate trying to chew the blanket.

My mom also said that her skin feels like paper, and just stays up if
you tug on it, so she is very dehydrated.

So we decided the best course of action would be to go to the vet and
just sit there, and hope someone cancels, or no shows, or is late and
they can squeeze her in.

Thanks so much for the responses, and we will keep you posted.

-Nicole, Eileen and Tallulah Belle

Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Daily diet plan
Posted by: "K. Gordon Crawford" kgcrawford@gmail.com kgcrawfordesq
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 11:04 am ((PST))

After 8 months of rawfeeding, things are going great, except that my
16 month old bullmastiff seems a little portly at 120 lbs.

What does the collective think of the following diet for bone meat
organ ratio (I think I've been relying on too much whole chicken as
daily meals):

1.5 lbs portion from whole chicken or turkey (giblets included) +
either 1 lb beef heart, pork shoulder, or whole tilapia 5 x per week,
1lb beef kidney 1x per week, 1lb beef liver 1x per week

fish oil caplets daily

thanks for your input

--
K. Gordon Crawford

Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Daily diet plan
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 12:04 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "K. Gordon Crawford"
<kgcrawford@...> wrote:
>
> What does the collective think of the following diet for bone meat
> organ ratio (I think I've been relying on too much whole chicken as
> daily meals):

I wouldn't worry so much about any ratios. I would just feed the
dog less. A lot less. Like maybe half what she is getting now
until her weight starts moving in the right direction. Whole
chickens willl not make a dog fat unles fed way too much. Chicken
is not a "fattening" food.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. Re: Daily diet plan
Posted by: "K. Gordon Crawford" kgcrawford@gmail.com kgcrawfordesq
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 12:47 pm ((PST))

To clarify, I also think these are two different issues - I had been giving
about 3 + lbs per day, which may be two mutch - so you'll see that the
proposed menu is 2.5 lbs per day. I just also thought that I may have been
giving too much bone (though there are no stool problems) and want that
corrected.

On 11/5/07, carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com <rawfeeding%40yahoogroups.com>, "K.
> Gordon Crawford"
> <kgcrawford@...> wrote:
> >
> > What does the collective think of the following diet for bone meat
> > organ ratio (I think I've been relying on too much whole chicken as
> > daily meals):
>
> I wouldn't worry so much about any ratios. I would just feed the
> dog less. A lot less. Like maybe half what she is getting now
> until her weight starts moving in the right direction. Whole
> chickens willl not make a dog fat unles fed way too much. Chicken
> is not a "fattening" food.
>
> Bill Carnes
> http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm
>
> Feeding Raw since October 2002
>
> "Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
> Dr. Tom Lonsdale
>
>
>

--
K. Gordon Crawford

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Re: challenges!
Posted by: "moemahood@aol.com" moemahood@aol.com selfemployedhealth
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 11:04 am ((PST))

Linda,

I'd start feeding whole chicken, not?just the carcass,?and then add whole unground?beef, like?heart or a roast cut up?and some organs.? Cut out cottage cheese and yogurt -- too much dairy.? And stop with the eggs and then gradually add them back in -- too many eggs can cause the runs.?

I wouldn't feed salmon unless I knew it was parasite free.....there are certain worms the live in salmon.? Maybe change the fish to whiting or perch -- then you can feed it whole with the bones and organs.

If you think he has a sensitive stomach start with one protien, perhaps the whole chicken or chicken parts,?for a few weeks and then slowly add new protiens like pork, lamb, rabbit or deer.? Ground meat is usually high in fat and anything ground has more breeding ground for ecoli and salmonella -- so try to stick with big hunks of meat instead of ground -- so that he can build up his resistance.?

If he is dehydrated at all bring him to the vet just to be sure there isn't a bigger issue lurking about.? Good luck.

?Maureen

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Baldwin <ljbcandr@yahoo.com>
To: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 8:43 pm
Subject: [rawfeeding] challenges!

Hi there!
I have a 14 mth lab retriever, fed raw from birth. He came to us at 5 months and was fine up to about 2 months ago. We are having problems with gas, diarhea, vomiting. I feed chicken carcass, raw ground beef, salmon - with occasional eggs, yogurt, cottage cheese. Any ideas what could be causing his problems. Our older dog switched to raw when we adopted the pup and hasn't looked back! It's frustrating - he turns his nose up at organ meats. Can dogs have ulcers or sensitive stomachs? I appreciate any advice!
Linda
ljbcandr@yahoo.com

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Messages in this topic (7)
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4b. Re: challenges!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 11:45 am ((PST))

moemahood@... wrote:

> I wouldn't feed salmon unless I knew it was parasite free.....there
> are certain worms the live in salmon.?

Pshaw, no need to bypass salmon all together! The only salmon that
*might* pose a problem are those from the Pacific Northwest. Even if
you are lucky enough to get fresh wild salmon from that area you can
just freeze them rock solid for a couple of weeks to kill any
parasites. Farmed salmon or previously frozen salmon aren't problems
for dogs.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (7)
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4c. Re: challenges!
Posted by: "moemahood@aol.com" moemahood@aol.com selfemployedhealth
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 12:05 pm ((PST))

Andrea, you might be right, but we do just fine on whiting and catfish.? I can get it almost whole so its better than an expensive salmon steak, and I don't have to worry about where it came from.....because sometimes it isn't labeled and no one knows....

I do give fish tabs, I rotate from salmon to fish oil tabs to cod liver oil tabs.? My two get fish once or twice a week -- they love it!

?Maureen

moemahood@... wrote:

> I wouldn't feed salmon unless I knew it was parasite free.....there
> are certain worms the live in salmon.?

Pshaw, no need to bypass salmon all together! The only salmon that
*might* pose a problem are those from the Pacific Northwest. Even if
you are lucky enough to get fresh wild salmon from that area you can
just freeze them rock solid for a couple of weeks to kill any
parasites. Farmed salmon or previously frozen salmon aren't problems
for dogs.

Andrea

________________________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (7)
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4d. Re: challenges!
Posted by: "jaygaughan" jaygaughan@yahoo.com jaygaughan
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 12:32 pm ((PST))

ANY Salmon that spawns in FRESH Water Rivers can hold parasites. This
means all Salmon have that potential.

I eat lots of Sashimi. Wild Salmon is definitely preferred over any
farm raise or land locked Salmon.

In most cases you'll be able to see the parasites in the fillets if
there are any If you're feeding whole fish of course you can't see
through them.

All fresh water fish can have parasites. This is why most fish in a
Sushi bar are from saltwater.

Jay

Messages in this topic (7)
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4e. fish parasites (was Re: challenges)!
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 12:54 pm ((PST))

"jaygaughan" <jaygaughan@...> wrote:

> ANY Salmon that spawns in FRESH Water Rivers can hold parasites. This
> means all Salmon have that potential.

Parasites in general, yes, but the parasite that causes salmon
poisoning in dogs is only in the pacific northwest (from northern Ca to
southern Alaska). Since this wild salmon is the most expensive it is
unlikely that the store won't have a big sign telling everyone that it
is fresh wild PNW salmon. Still, if you aren't comfortable feeding the
fish after freezing, you don't have to.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (7)
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5. Venison... Head! Directions needed.
Posted by: "Gayle" gayle@gayleturner.net gayle28607
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 11:05 am ((PST))

Hi folks,

This morning I scored a few venison scraps. I got part of a lung, some trachea, some
meat from the ends of the ribs (that had poop on it), four hoof-ends of legs, and... the
head!

I only took the head because of all the advice here on the "whole prey" model, and the fact
that even when I buy whole chicken, there often is no neck, gizzard, liver, or anything in
the body cavity.

I washed the poop off, and packaged up the lung with some meat and the trachea with
some meat, which I hope are pretty straight forward meals for a 16 week old Brit pup who
so far has only had chicken and pork.

The head I was going to cut in half so the pup could get at the brains more easily, and so I
could freeze it in two pieces. But as I contemplated the head and my clever I quickly
decided to just freeze the whole thing. I'm rarely a wimp, but that grossed me out.

So first, do I need to worry about the fact there was poop on parts of it? I did wash it off,
and this is also one reason I am freezing the whole shebang for a while.

How long should I freeze it to get rid of any worms or whatever?

Finally, how would you deal with the puppy and a deer head? I usually feed him in his
crate, but between the size of the head and his size, that's not even an option. If I feed it
to him outside (where he'll have to be leashed - no fence ) will he be able to get at all the
deer head parts without my wielding the clever?

At this point he is a pro at chicken halves and pork butt.

Gayle and Chakotay

Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Re: Pork tails and amount of fish
Posted by: "Kevin Brown" jerseykev@aol.com noblarneyzone
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 11:06 am ((PST))

I feed my two OEM either pork feet or tail 2 times a month. I have
had no problems, and they like the treat.

They usually spend alot of time playing with them as they eat them.

Kevin
guardiansbythesea.com

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "blueberry5297"
<blueberry5297@...> wrote:
>
> What do you think of pork tails? I saw them at the store yesterday
and
> thought it might make a nice boney treat once in a while when my
dog
> hasn't had enough. Anything I should be aware of? Does anyone think
> this bone is too hard?
>
> I also decided to try fish for the first time and bought some perch
on
> manager's special [which as you all know means "about to go bad",
lol].
> My only question about this is how much to give him. I planned to
give
> it to him by itself to see how he likes it, but I've heard
somewhere
> that you shouldn't feed too much fish. Blue is about 40 pounds and
I
> bought 0.78 lbs of perch filet. What do you recommend for one
serving?
> I know this will vary from person to person, but I'd like to get an
> idea by hearing what a few different owners have to say. The fish
alone
> doesn't seem like enough food for one meal so I'll probably give
him
> one of the pork tails right afterward and/or some chicken liver...
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks a lot!
>
> - Jeni & Blue -
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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7a. Mixed protein sources
Posted by: "ncrnrgrl" jcraver1@nc.rr.com ncrnrgrl
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 11:19 am ((PST))

Hi all,
I'm relatively to new to this, and have learned a great deal from
reading along - I am such a geek I save the digests and read them at
home each night. :) I greatly appreciate having this board to guide
me along. So, thanks to all of you who take the time to answer all
the Noobie questions, and provide support. It doesn't go unnoticed.

I'm feeding two dogs, and I've learned that I have it easy. My dogs
love everything I put in front of them and tolerate everything will
very little trouble, ok, I admit beef heart was a little tough (read:
runny stools) but other than that, they love and respond well to
everything.

I was wondering if you "old hands" feed the same protein source for a
period of time and then change? Or if it's all mixed? I'll go ahead
and admit that I 've been mixing my protein all along - for example -
my dogs had goat for breakfast today and I have pork trim and necks
defrosting for tomorrow - I've been feeding this way all along - is
this incorrect? Should I be sticking with one protein source for a
time then switching?

Thanks in advance for your responses.
Jen C.

Messages in this topic (5)
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7b. Re: Mixed protein sources
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 11:40 am ((PST))

> Should I be sticking with one protein source for a time then
> switching?

Nah, I think it is more fun for all involved if you switch it up
regularly. If I had the opportunity to feed whole prey, like a calf or
something, I surely would keep feeding it until it was gone. I know my
boys get bored with the same thing every day.

Andrea

Messages in this topic (5)
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7c. Re: Mixed protein sources
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 12:05 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ncrnrgrl" <jcraver1@...> wrote:
>
> I admit beef heart was a little tough (read:
> runny stools) but other than that, they love and respond well to
> everything.

I never feed beef heart as a meal but as part of a meal. Usually
around 1/4 of a meal.

> I was wondering if you "old hands" feed the same protein
> source for a
> period of time and then change?

No, never. Rarely will it be the same two meals in a row.

> Or if it's all mixed?

I will sometimes feed 2 or 3 protein sources in one meal. Last
Saturday night my dogs had fish, beef heart, beef liver, and an egg
all in the same meal.

> I've been feeding this way all along - is
> this incorrect?

NO, its not incorrect. I suspect it's the way most of us feed.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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7d. Re: Mixed protein sources
Posted by: "moemahood@aol.com" moemahood@aol.com selfemployedhealth
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 12:05 pm ((PST))

I was wondering if you "old hands" feed the same protein source for a
period of time and then change? Or if it's all mixed? I'll go ahead
and admit that I 've been mixing my protein all along - for example -
my dogs had goat for breakfast today and I have pork trim and necks
defrosting for tomorrow - I've been feeding this way all along - is
this incorrect? Should I be sticking with one protein source for a
time then switching?

Thanks in advance for your responses.
Jen C.

Jen,

I've always been told to balance over time.? I feed whatever is defrosted so sometimes there is a big variety, sometimes they get the same thing for a week.? Like I just ordered 20lbs of beef kidney and 35lbs of turkey necks, plus rabbit and beef tripe (30lbs)?and 10lbs of fish and just picked up some deer from freecycle.? Everything gets processed into single serving baggies and whatever comes out to of the freezer is what they will get....so there maybe 5 days of kidney and turkey necks and then a few days of tripe -- as long as over a month everything equals out I don't worry about it.? I do have liver that I feed as a snack just to make sure they get enough liver -- sometimes I do beef and sometimes I do chicken.? Right now there are a few pieces of beef liver that need to be fed in my fridge so they'll get a mouthful a day until it is gone.....

?Maureen

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7e. Re: Mixed protein sources
Posted by: "merril Woolf" merril@kentfieldwhippets.com whippetsrus2002
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 12:32 pm ((PST))

>
> I was wondering if you "old hands" feed the same protein source for a
> period of time and then change? Or if it's all mixed? I'll go ahead
> and admit that I 've been mixing my protein all along - for example -
> my dogs had goat for breakfast today and I have pork trim and necks
> defrosting for tomorrow - I've been feeding this way all along - is
> this incorrect? Should I be sticking with one protein source for a
> time then switching?
>
> Thanks in advance for your responses.
> Jen C.
>

I start my dogs as young pups on any and every protein source I can find. I've never fed
one type of anything.
Every day they will have a variety of foods from every corner of the food spectum.

If your pup is doing great, just keep feeding variety of critters. Nothing my dogs haven't
tried and enjoyed.

Merril

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8a. starving dog
Posted by: "Cris Milam" cmilam@comcast.net cris_milam
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 11:24 am ((PST))

Glad to have you here, and congrats on your new Greyhound. When we first got Duncan from the racetrack, he was a VERY skinny 73 pounds -- his hip bones were mountains and you could see every rib and vertebra.

Like the other responses you got, I suggest that you move to one meat source (chicken is great), increase the bone for stool firmness, drop the organs for a bit, no eggs, and feed several small meals. You will probably have to go over the 2-3% of body weight in food per day -- Duncan needed 4% to hold his own.

Do not get exasperated if it takes a while for your dog to gain weight. It seems to take greys a while to get their weight up (if you do it in a healthy way). Remember that your dog will be increasing in health even if her weight isn't going up. Also, do not expect that your grey will gain weight on chicken. Duncan needed beef to gain weight.

Mostly, take things slowly. Raw feeding is not a sprint. It is a marathon. A lot of the generally accepted feeding practices here may not fit for you -- yet. As you move ahead, you will see that your dog's health will improve and you will be able to move to a more "normal" raw feeding diet. Just watch your dog and figure out what works for both of you.

BTW, it took 3-4 months for Duncan to gain the 5 pounds he needed. He ate 3 meals a day. What really made the difference in his weight was when he had beef for one or two of his meals every day for 10 days.

Hope to hear more from you.
Cris M

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Messages in this topic (5)
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9a. Grass Eating -- MINE TOO!!
Posted by: "alexanderdewey" alexanderdewey@yahoo.com alexanderdewey
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 12:05 pm ((PST))

Hi,

I actually logged on to post a question about this and I see someone
has beaten me to the punch. Our situation is a little bit different
though, so here goes:

Gigi (21 months/48 lbs) has been TRYING to eat all the grass she
comes accross for about a WEEK. The thing is, I wont let her eat
any because we're not talking about a nice grassy meadow - We're
talking about the little bit of grass which grows between the
sidewalk and the curb, and a lot of people around here use a very
deadly rat poison (tres pesitas) - The tinyest bit kills CATS and
DOGS too, and it happens frequently :( So obviously I'm extremely
vigilant when it comes to Gigi poking around or trying to eat
ANYTHING on the street.

So... Is there anything I should give her to substitute the grass
she's trying to eat? (lettuce maybe?) And... Isn't a WEEK of
trying (like crazy) to eat grass kind of a long time to try to expel
something?? What could be bothering her for so long?

There's plenty of times in the past that she's thrown stuff up that
she's having a hard time digesting (without eating grass). To the
best of my knowledge, she's only eaten the chicken quarters I've
been feeding her daily. Otherwise, she's acting normal and full of
energy.

I'm going out of town tomorrow and would hate to have to fast her
right now. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Since she seems
fine, "Just don't worry about it" would be a nice one to hear. lol.

Thanks,

Alex (raw feeding Gigi since Sept 30, 2007)

Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: Grass Eating -- MINE TOO!!
Posted by: "cynthiashankman" ShankMa4@aol.com cynthiashankman
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 12:32 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "alexanderdewey"
<alexanderdewey@...> wrote:
>
To the best of my knowledge, she's only eaten the chicken quarters I've
> been feeding her daily. Otherwise, she's acting normal and full of
> energy.
> Thanks,
>
> Alex (raw feeding Gigi since Sept 30, 2007)

I am not a moderator, but an fellow newbie. Hope you don't mind my
asking, but are you feeding her anything besides chicken quarters?

Cindi

Messages in this topic (2)
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10. Anyone raise rabbits for feed?
Posted by: "jaygaughan" jaygaughan@yahoo.com jaygaughan
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 12:32 pm ((PST))

I'm wondering if it would be worth my while to put up a few rabbit
cages up to raise rabbits to feed my Great Dane.

Or should I just buy them.

Thank you

Jay

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Re: First chicken thigh...serious issue?
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2007 12:57 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...>
wrote:
>
> I believe one can feed a tube down the throat of a bloating
> dog; if
> the tube goes down far enough, it's not torsion
> because--obviously--the stomach hasn't torsed.
>
> I would not recommend, however, waiting around to see if torsion
> follows.

Yes, everything you say is correct except you still don't get my
concept of both ends of the stomach being closed. If they are open,
what holds the gas in? It would be like trying to blow up a ballon
with two large holes in it. When you push the tube down the dogs
throat, and when it works, the tube pushes it's way through the dogs
closed opening and allows the gas to escape through the hole.
Sometimes they will make an incision in the dogs belly and put in a
tube that way.

It doesn't need to be a tube although thats what they used. You
could use a plastic rod with no hole in it if you could get it down
the dogs throat. As soon as it passes the closed opening, forcing
it open, the gas will escape up the throat.

I am not saying bloat and torsion is the same thing. The openings
can close without the stomach twisting (torsion). Torsion just by
itself will definately close both openings in the stomach but they
can close without torsion happening. How do they close? I don't
have a clue. But if they didn't the gas would escape either through
the mouth or anus. Again, if the openings were open, what holds the
gas in?

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (16)
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