[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12232

There are 23 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oysters?
From: Yasuko herron
1b. Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oysters?
From: Andrea

2a. Feeding the Senior Dog
From: Dinah
2b. Re: Feeding the Senior Dog
From: Sandee Lee

3a. Re: Our first day! Yay!
From: betty hinson
3b. Re: Our first day! Yay!
From: miensasis
3c. Re: Our first day! Yay!
From: bel_the
3d. Re: Our first day! Yay!
From: mmc2315

4a. How large is a gorge meal?
From: raven4519
4b. Re: How large is a gorge meal?
From: Laurie Swanson
4c. Re: How large is a gorge meal?
From: katkellm

5a. Weatherwax Lassie Dogs Eating Raw Diet
From: redwoodrivers
5b. Re: Weatherwax Lassie Dogs Eating Raw Diet
From: jennifer_hell

6a. Re: still swallowing whole
From: delcaste
6b. Re: still swallowing whole
From: delcaste
6c. Re: still swallowing whole
From: Laurie Swanson

7a. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
From: ben
7b. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
From: jennifer_hell

8a. bad gas.
From: blue eyed

9a. Re: Feeding whole prey in close quarters???
From: hungrymoses

10.1. Re: New to Raw Feeding
From: hungrymoses
10.2. Re: New to Raw Feeding
From: jennifer_hell

11a. Re: Puppy is still throwing up
From: Jinger & Donnie Guinn

Messages
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1a. Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oysters?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 6:41 pm ((PDT))

>I usually feed two at a time to my dogs. The fries I got have an. . .unusual texture to say the least

Hi,Andrea. What kinds of dog do you have?

I have never seen the oyster thing with my eyes so,I do not know how big they are,but if it were too big for my dog,is it possible to cut?? Kind of gross but,wondering if it possible or not.

I know only one protin source I can get oyster thing;buffalo.

So,if it was something I feel like feeding,I can order them,but I wascurious when I read this thread.

It be fed asorgan meat so,too much cause,diarrhea,correct?

Thanks,

yassy

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Messages in this topic (24)
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1b. Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oysters?
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 9:26 pm ((PDT))

Yassy, I have a GSP mix and a Newf mix, both about 60lbs right now. The fries that I have
fed are pretty small, one is a perfect size for addition to a regular meal for the boys.

I tried to cut them once, but it was kind of weird. A whole fry didn't cause digestive upset for
either of the boys so I haven't needed to cut them up since.

I added buffalo fries to normal meals for the boys and neither of them had digestive upset. I
would imagine that one added to Palette's normal food would be fine. If nothing else they
are a funky and fun addition to the regular organs we offer.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@...> wrote:

> I have never seen the oyster thing with my eyes so,I do not know how big they are,but if it
were too big for my dog,is it possible to cut?? Kind of gross but,wondering if it possible or
not.
>
> I know only one protin source I can get oyster thing;buffalo.

Messages in this topic (24)
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2a. Feeding the Senior Dog
Posted by: "Dinah" dinah_kay@msn.com dinahkay78
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 7:46 pm ((PDT))

All of my dogs have been getting a raw diet (as close to prey style as
possible) for the past year and a half. My corgi, who is 9 1/2 yrs
old, has had two cbcs in the past year. One was sent to Dr. Dodds 6-8
months ago and the other my local vet did as a senior panel on a
recent vet trip due to lameness last week. The recent cbcs came back
with high protein levels, as well as high sodium and triglycerides.
Nothing was off the charts high, but my vet had concern at my dogs age
and the high protein. He knows that I work with a out of town
homeopathic vet and he knows I feed a raw diet. He has been supportive
of my program for my dogs, and has never bad-mouthed my diet choice or
choice to treat as naturally as possible. So, he said that in a older
dog I need to be concerned about the high protein level as well as
sodium. He told me to look at adding some carbs (green veggies and or
rice) and reducing his amount of meat. I have not gotten to talk to my
natural vet about this yet, and I know several of you do not think
carbs should be fed, but when I get a cbc back with high protein
levels, what should I do? I am going to go back and check the cbc that
Dr. Dodds did about 6-8 months ago and see if he was high in protein
then, but I do not remember him having high levels other than the
triglycerides at that time.

A typical meal for my guys is a boneless meal one day (with salmon oil
and Solid Gold multivitamin) and then a bone in meal the next. I feed
a mixture of beef, chicken, turkey, and occasionally pork and goat.
Their bone in meal is generally a chicken leg quarter, while the
boneless meat is a protein source other than chicken. I sometimes
include a egg and or yogurt, but that is only every once and a while.

Just FYI: I believe my dog had eaten about 12-13 hours prior to the
recent cbc.

Any suggestions/info would be great!
Thanks!!!
Dinah

Messages in this topic (2)
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2b. Re: Feeding the Senior Dog
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 9:58 pm ((PDT))

Dinah,

High protein and triglyceride levels in the blood have nothing to do with
diet. I would ignore the vet unless they can come up with some disease
process....and keep feeding prey model (which is not high protein). There
is never a good reason to add carbohydrates or reduce protein in a
carnivore's diet.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Dinah" <dinah_kay@msn.com>

The recent cbcs came back
with high protein levels, as well as high sodium and triglycerides.
Nothing was off the charts high, but my vet had concern at my dogs age
and the high protein. He knows that I work with a out of town
homeopathic vet and he knows I feed a raw diet. He has been supportive
of my program for my dogs, and has never bad-mouthed my diet choice or
choice to treat as naturally as possible. So, he said that in a older
dog I need to be concerned about the high protein level as well as
sodium. He told me to look at adding some carbs (green veggies and or
rice) and reducing his amount of meat. I have not gotten to talk to my
natural vet about this yet, and I know several of you do not think
carbs should be fed, but when I get a cbc back with high protein
levels, what should I do?

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: Our first day! Yay!
Posted by: "betty hinson" b_hinson@sbcglobal.net paps4jesus
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 7:46 pm ((PDT))

I thought you only fed about 2 % of thier body weight?? 8 oz seems like alot for a 20 lb dog???
Betty Hinson
b_hinson@sbcglobal.net
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me Phil 4:13

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (9)
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3b. Re: Our first day! Yay!
Posted by: "miensasis" kpmnlm@patmedia.net miensasis
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 11:51 pm ((PDT))

Betty...

OK...now you have me second-guessing how I figure ounces for my own 30
lb. wheatens. The calculation I use is 30 (lbs) x .02 (which is 2%) x
16 ounces. With that calculation I get 9.6 ounces which I've been
rounding up to 10 ounces/day for a 30 lb. dog. (I use that as a
ballpark. Somedays I go a little heavier on the meals and feed more
like 14 ounces and occasionally I feed less.) Assuming I'm doing my
calculation right....8 oz seems reasonable for a 20 lb dog. Is there a
flaw in my math????

Nancy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "betty hinson" <b_hinson@...> wrote:
>
> I thought you only fed about 2 % of thier body weight?? 8 oz seems
like alot for a 20 lb dog???

Messages in this topic (9)
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3c. Re: Our first day! Yay!
Posted by: "bel_the" bel_the@yahoo.com bel_the
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 11:51 pm ((PDT))

hello betty...

feed 2% of IDEAL body weight. not actually the dogs' present weight...

BEL

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "betty hinson" <b_hinson@...> wrote:
>
> I thought you only fed about 2 % of thier body weight?? 8 oz seems
like alot for a 20 lb dog???
> Betty Hinson
> b_hinson@...
> I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me Phil 4:13
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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3d. Re: Our first day! Yay!
Posted by: "mmc2315" m.chelap@sbcglobal.net mmc2315
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2007 5:25 am ((PDT))

"miensasis" wrote:

>The calculation I use is 30 (lbs) x .02 (which is 2%) x
> 16 ounces. With that calculation I get 9.6 ounces which I've been
> rounding up to 10 ounces/day for a 30 lb. dog.

Nancy, your math looks good to me! :)

Michelle

Messages in this topic (9)
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4a. How large is a gorge meal?
Posted by: "raven4519" raven4519@yahoo.com raven4519
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 11:50 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Can someone please tell me how large a gorge meal would be for an
83 lb dog that usually gets about 1&1/2 lbs of raw per day?
He was starved before we got him and is now food obcessed. I would
like him to feel truly full but am worried he would eat till he
exploded if I let him. Have given him about 3& 1/2 lbs at a time
before and he still wanted more.

Thank you
Shannon M TX

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: How large is a gorge meal?
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2007 3:25 am ((PDT))

Hi Shannon,

Just to give you a ball park, I've fed my dog 3-4 days worth of food
before--probably around 8% of his body weight or a little more. I
asked about this awhile ago and got a couple good answers. Try
following my thread starting with post #133592 or search the archives
for "gorge meal." It's a good idea to work up to really large meals--
make one meal bigger, the next smaller, etc. He may or may not get
over his food obsession and be able to self-regulate. If he is new to
raw, he may relax over time, though. He might just be excited about
his new food right now (if he's new).

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "raven4519" <raven4519@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Can someone please tell me how large a gorge meal would be for an
> 83 lb dog that usually gets about 1&1/2 lbs of raw per day?

Messages in this topic (3)
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4c. Re: How large is a gorge meal?
Posted by: "katkellm" katkellm@yahoo.com katkellm
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2007 5:25 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "raven4519" <raven4519@...> wrote:
>
I would
> like him to feel truly full but am worried he would eat till he
> exploded if I let him.

Hi Shannon,
If you want him to be really and truthfully full, you have to let him
eat till HE stops eating. You can't pick a number amount because how
full is full to your 83lb dog might not be how full is full to another
83lb dog. Actually, how much my dogs will eat at gorge meals varies
from meal to meal. My first big meal was a 12lb turkey. Turkey seems
like a good first gorge meal choice, to me, because you have lots of
edible bone to accompany the meat. Just put the food down and when he
quits, he's full. I would suggest a pot of coffee and your camera
would make a great "celebrate the moments of your life" feeding for
the both of you. I know this will sound silly, but i think there is a
bonding experience that happens between you and your dog over a gorge
meal. I think they are impressed that the pack leader finally made a
big score and hunted down enough food. No laughing please, KathyM

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Weatherwax Lassie Dogs Eating Raw Diet
Posted by: "redwoodrivers" RedwoodRiver@gmail.com redwoodrivers
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 11:50 pm ((PDT))

Okay, it's a frozen raw diet...
but it's still nice to see, and I just
had to share!
http://weatherwaxtraineddogs.homestead.com/blog.html
Enjoy the read!

JP

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Weatherwax Lassie Dogs Eating Raw Diet
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2007 3:25 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "redwoodrivers" <RedwoodRiver@...>
wrote:

> http://weatherwaxtraineddogs.homestead.com/blog.html
> Enjoy the read!
>
> JP
>

"Dad also knew that the first part of a kill a wild animal would go
for is the intestines and stomach where the greens were being
digested. Dogs need some complex carbohydrates along with meat, but
they're not inclined to graze for them as cows and sheep do. To
accommodate this part of the diet, Dad would add some greens to the
meat, along with eggs, eggshells for additional calcium, and goat's
milk as well."

Um, looks like Dad got it wrong here.

Jennifer

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: still swallowing whole
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 11:50 pm ((PDT))

Hello, Connie thanks for your suggestions. I like to feed goat and I
hadn't thought of taking off the thick fat since she's always eaten it.
Violeta does do well with the short meaty beef ribs. Today I gave her
some cut up goat and she choked again. She stopped breathing. I will be
giving her Big Food and feeding her by hand piece by piece her little
snacks. Today I couldn't eat dinner and was shaking for I don't know
how long. I also have a finger that is bitten and feels like I hammered
it :(

Silvina

Messages in this topic (22)
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6b. Re: still swallowing whole
Posted by: "delcaste" delcaste@yahoo.com delcaste
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 11:50 pm ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> There are so many people who report that their Pugs are
> "gulpers", that I can't help but wonder why their jaw, dental and
muzzle
> structure isn't pointed out as the main reasons why this is so, not
their
> personalities.

Oh, I've always thought it was the shape of their face that would be
the main factor if there was a problem. I had a vet one time tell me
that for him to be able to look down a pug's mouth, he would have to
give it anesthisia. It's true. You open their mouth and it's all
tongue. Your Newfy's tongue in my Pug's face, ;) That's why when they
eat it looks as if they are into food up to their eyes

> that they are indeed, still wolves in instinct and under the skin.
>
> Keeping this idea in mind can maybe help you not get so frustrated
with
> them. It may also help you to brainstorm to help them eat more
safely and
> comfortably.

Giselle my mistake has been to give too small a food. She was doing
so well, too. I'm not so much frustrated as scared. Today V choked
again. I thought she was dead but I kept banging her tummy (right
under the last rib, right) and when that didn't work I picked her up
and tried the Heimlich like you do on people. When that didn't work I
laid her back down and started pushing on her and forced her mouth
open and the food was there so I got it out and had a finger bitten
up that huuuurts....Very hectic

Today I bought cornish hens, rabbits and goat leg. She will be
getting ALL of these in their entirety while I figure out how best to
feed her. Thanks Giselle.

Silvina

Messages in this topic (22)
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6c. Re: still swallowing whole
Posted by: "Laurie Swanson" laurie@mckinneyphoto.com las_lala
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2007 3:25 am ((PDT))

Silvina,

You sure are having trouble w/this girl! When you cut it up, are you
cutting it small enough, then? What about, when you're feeding cut up
chunks, you sort of spread it out all over a towel, so she isn't
scarfing out of a bowl?

Just another idea to add to your tool box!

Good luck. I know that must be very stressful. Take care.

Interesting that you're finding thick fat on goat--I've never had that
w/the goat I've gotten.

Laurie

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "delcaste" <delcaste@...> wrote:
Today I gave her
> some cut up goat and she choked again.

Messages in this topic (22)
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7a. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
Posted by: "ben" ben1721@yahoo.com ben1721
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2007 11:51 pm ((PDT))

Sorry, not entirely related to the cooked vs raw egg issue, but I was
wondering how most of you feed eggs to your dogs. Do you blend the
whole egg to crush the shell and then pour it on their meal? give it
to them whole? just give the inner contents of the egg? If you give a
whole egg, could it be a choking hazard? Thanks for your help!

Rachel, Ben, & (soon!!) Moose

Messages in this topic (9)
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7b. Re: QUESTION ABOUT EGGS
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2007 3:25 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "ben" <ben1721@...> wrote:
>
>
> Sorry, not entirely related to the cooked vs raw egg issue, but I was
> wondering how most of you feed eggs to your dogs.

I crush the shell and put the egg in her bowl. She's scared of the egg
if I give it to her whole (I know, I know, what a wuss, and a 55lb
pitbull...) and doesn't eat the shell if I put it in the bowl. I
figure she gets enough calcium anyway, she gets more than 10% edible
bone most of the time.

Jennifer with Mandy (who is scared of blueberries too...Lol!!!)

Messages in this topic (9)
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8a. bad gas.
Posted by: "blue eyed" eyed_blue@yahoo.co.uk eyed_blue
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2007 3:25 am ((PDT))

If you know what has caused the gas then I wouldnt be too bothered, just feed this sparingly as you know it isnt quite as easy on her system, giving a charcoal tablet before her beef meals may also help to 'line' her stomach and absorb excess gas. Just be prepared for black poo!.

Natalie

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Messages in this topic (3)
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9a. Re: Feeding whole prey in close quarters???
Posted by: "hungrymoses" hungrymoses@yahoo.com hungrymoses
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2007 5:25 am ((PDT))

..."BUT there is still that little part of me that freaks out when I
hear my dogs crunching on bones,"...

I too am new the feeding raw, about 2 months, and I feed a large dog in
small quarters. I haven't got to the part where I feed whole rabbit or
anything, I'm still trying to get over the crunching of the bones when
I feed chicken quarters.

I feed my dog in the kitchen and he's good and stays put in one spot.
What little mess he makes while eating he cleans up right after.

Cynthia

Messages in this topic (7)
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10.1. Re: New to Raw Feeding
Posted by: "hungrymoses" hungrymoses@yahoo.com hungrymoses
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2007 5:25 am ((PDT))

Hi Ben,

I have a boxer/lab mix myself. He's 18 months old and have been feeding
him raw for about two months now. I had the same experience after I fed
him some chicken wings...very needle sharp bone in the stool. I could
be wrong but, it hasn't happened again since I started feeding the
larger bone of the chicken thighs and drumstick. I noticed that he
chews his food more and the bones just seem to be crused up. I know
this because sometimes when he's eating small pieces fall out on the
floor which he then proceeds to clean up.

Cynthia
>

Messages in this topic (64)
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10.2. Re: New to Raw Feeding
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2007 5:50 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "hungrymoses" <hungrymoses@...> wrote:
>
I had the same experience after I fed
> him some chicken wings...very needle sharp bone in the stool.

Same here, but from turkey drums. And my girl is a good chewer. I
posted about this recently- I pierced my finger tip on a small needle
sharp piece when I picked up after Mandy (yep, it pierced right
through the plastic bag). I have to admit it freaked me out a little.

Jennifer with Mandy

Messages in this topic (64)
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11a. Re: Puppy is still throwing up
Posted by: "Jinger & Donnie Guinn" jdguinn1@suddenlink.net jdguinn1
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2007 5:51 am ((PDT))

Have you tried changing protiens?
Jinger

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (5)
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