[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12237

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: possible problem
From: LaDawn

2a. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
From: Gayle

3a. Re: Pregnancy question again
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: Pancreatitis, diarrhea, antibiotic side effects
From: Patty Linden
4b. Re: Pancreatitis, diarrhea, antibiotic side effects
From: Patty Linden
4c. Re: Pancreatitis, diarrhea, antibiotic side effects
From: Josephine Morningstar

5.1. Turkey
From: Yasuko herron

6a. Re: Exactly what IS a knuckle bone?
From: costrowski75
6b. Re: Exactly what IS a knuckle bone?
From: Anntiga@aol.com

7a. IMO
From: Lynette
7b. Re: IMO
From: costrowski75
7c. Re: IMO
From: Jenny S

8a. Beef neck
From: Lynette
8b. Re: Beef neck
From: Yasuko herron
8c. Re: Beef neck
From: Loraine Jesse

9a. Horse okay?
From: GaelicHounds
9b. Re: Horse okay?
From: costrowski75
9c. Re: Horse okay?
From: Yasuko herron

10a. Strange Vomit occurances
From: J
10b. Re: Strange Vomit occurances
From: Yasuko herron

11a. Re: goat (was How large is a gorge meal?
From: Yasuko herron

12. Feeding Raw and Diabetes
From: DJagodzinski21@aol.com

13.1. Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oysters?
From: Yasuko herron

14a. Re: raw/calcium/phosphorus
From: Loraine Jesse

15. Deworming
From: trayc2244

Messages
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1a. Re: possible problem
Posted by: "LaDawn" cldalley@verizon.net ladawndalley4
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 6:17 am ((PST))

I did look down her throat and couldn't see anything. I was trying to
remember what I fed her. I know I gave her some leftover cooked
salmon, but not a lot, and she ate some vegetables that had been with
it. She doesn't usually eat vegetables. She may have also had a
chicken back that day. But that may have been the day before (I have
four kids, a husband, a cat, a bird, and the dog, and I homeschool, so
the days tend to run together!:-) ).

She does seem better this morning. At least, when I woke up, she was
raiding the trash can and later she was back to chasing the cat and
chewing on him, so hopefully whatever it has worked itself out.

I just wasn't looking forward to having to take her to an emergency
clinic vet who would give me a hard time about raw if it was a bone
stuck in there!

Thanks everyone,
LaDawn

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Swanson" <laurie@...> wrote:
>
> Hi LaDawn,
>
> Have you taken a look down her throat just to see if there's anything
> obvious? What did you feed before this?

Messages in this topic (5)
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2a. Re: Puppy growth too rapid?
Posted by: "Gayle" gayle@gayleturner.net gayle28607
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 7:33 am ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Tina Berry" <k9baron@...> wrote:
>
> OK, I just looked back at my puppy records and good news... my current 18
> month olds, when they were 4 months they each weighed 50 lbs. So over half
> their adult weight because my female looks like she'll probably top out at
> 85-90 lbs and my male is around 90lbs now and may top out at 100 but he's
> shorter than his daddy so I don't think he will be 100.
>
> And both are lean, nice muscle tone, no health issues and neither had any
> bouts of pano (puppy arthritis) either and they are large boned.
> --
> Tina Berry - MT
> Kriegshund German Shepherds
> Working Lines ~ Naturally Reared
> www.kriegshundgsds.com
>

For the sake of the archives and those who look up info in them, Chakotay's weight at 16
weeks is 22.5 pounds. It looks like he is on about the same growth curve as Tina's pups
were at this age. That is, it looks like he is likely to have slightly more than half his adult
weight at 16 weeks. He remains pleasantly lean and well muscled.

And, Chakotay is still loving his RMB. This week it has been a 7 lb pork butt that he works
on for about a half hour at each meal. He seems to be losing interest in the mid-day
meal, so I'm starting to phase that out.

Gayle and Chakotay

Messages in this topic (13)
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3a. Re: Pregnancy question again
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 8:04 am ((PST))

"diannem200400" <diannem200400@...> wrote:
Is there a limit to how much beef kidney
> I can feed a pregnant bitch;
*****
I think bowel tolerance would do it.

is there any problem with feeding
> Natural Balance lamb and rice roll for those times when she just
will
> not eat anything else?
*****
If she won't eat anything else, sure; but how much anything else have
you tried? Have you tried real lamb without the filler rice? Rice
offers no nutritional support for a pregnant bitch nor any other dog.
And of course the other ingredients NB uses are of little value.

Are you trying to put too much whole bone in her diet? Someone
recently wrote that offering a plate of mixed options had been a
successful approach to feeding a picky bitch.

What have you been offering and how far along is she?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Pancreatitis, diarrhea, antibiotic side effects
Posted by: "Patty Linden" pattykat3@yahoo.com pattykat3
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 8:21 am ((PST))

Giselle--thanks for the suggestion. Where would I find raw pancreas--is there a place to order it on the Internet?
:-) Patty

Giselle <megan.giselle@gmail.com> wrote: Hi, Patty!
In addition to feeding leaner meats and small meals, feeding
raw pancreas can be helpful.

TC
Giselle
with Bea in New Jersey

<snip>

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4b. Re: Pancreatitis, diarrhea, antibiotic side effects
Posted by: "Patty Linden" pattykat3@yahoo.com pattykat3
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 9:15 am ((PST))

Patricia--Thanks for the advice. I have tried chicken from several different batches over the past several weeks. He either tries to bury it (in the towel, on the floor)--or just walks away from it every time. Then, if I offer him some turkey instead, he usually eats it--so I am thinking he just might have some kind of allergy to chicken. I guess I will just have to stick with lean turkey breasts for at least a month or more, then gradually try another protein. I have been careful to get only free range chicken or turkey, without antibiotics, etc.--so don't think it could be an additive to the meat.
Thanks again--
:-) Patty

Patricia Purvis <purvisp@yahoo.com> wrote: My cat refused to eat chicken after several months of chicken and then I found out it was bad. It didn't smell bad, but my friend and I split large packages of chicken and I asked her about it and found out that her dog refused to eat it, too. So I tossed that chicken, got different chicken, and now he happily eats the chicken.

I would imagine this does not happen that often. I'm a newby, so I don't know. Also, he did not get diahrea, he just would not eat.

.

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4c. Re: Pancreatitis, diarrhea, antibiotic side effects
Posted by: "Josephine Morningstar" josephine.morningstar@gmail.com jomorningstar
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 9:15 am ((PST))

On 11/3/07, Patty Linden <pattykat3@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> with a supplement called GI Support mixed in. The supplement contains
> (among other things) Slippery Elm Bark, acidophilus, alfalfa, pepsin,
> papain, bromelain.

Wonder if Green Tripe would work?

I know of another pyr, that had not been able to switch back to raw after
Katrina. but with addition of feeding the green tripe.. made the switch back
and is very happy.

however one missed meal of some green tripe.. he goes back to the dia rear
.. testing comes up normal though. may or may not be the same thing. but a
suggestion.

--
Josephine MorningStar & Heather, Pyr, Mobility & MASD
Native American in Massachusetts

Never threaten anyone. It ruins the surprise.
www.apachecreations.com

By Believing, One Sees.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (18)
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5.1. Turkey
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 8:21 am ((PST))

Hi, I just wanted to let those who live in VA that now this week til thursday,Gian supermarket is selling Turkey 50cents per pound.

I wanted to get it but I guess I wait till after thanksgiving due lack of freezer space...but if you did have freezer space,it maybe good-buy.

But after the Thanksgiving andbefore the thanksgiving,which period of times stores sell Turkey cheaper??? I am curious.Do you thin it gets cheaper than 50 cents per pound after the thanksgiving day?

yassy

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6a. Re: Exactly what IS a knuckle bone?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 8:34 am ((PST))

Giselle <megan.giselle@...> wrote:
>
> **** 'K, this is a nice website;
> http://bovine.unl.edu/bovine3D/eng/bonep.jsp
*****
Hey, this is more than a nice website: It's terrific! I think I got
it now.

The knuckle is the southern end of the femur, where it is bound with
connective tissue to the northern end of the tibia, which may or may
not also be considered "knuckle bone". But in either case--lower end
of the femur/upper end of the tibia--the entire composite assembly
along with the patella is considered the knee.

Yes?
Chris O

Messages in this topic (12)
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6b. Re: Exactly what IS a knuckle bone?
Posted by: "Anntiga@aol.com" Anntiga@aol.com anntiga
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 12:22 pm ((PST))

In a message dated 11/4/2007 8:34:36 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
Chriso75@AOL.COM writes:

http://bovine.unl.edu/bovine3D/eng/bonep.jsp

What a great site!

thanks,

Ann and Norman (Portuguese Water Dog)
San Francisco Peninsula, CA, USA

"Never underestimate the warmth of a cold nose."

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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7a. IMO
Posted by: "Lynette" lraefried@sbcglobal.net cherrysmomma
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 9:54 am ((PST))

I see IMO in a lot of messages, can someone please tell me what it
stands for?

Lynette

Messages in this topic (3)
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7b. Re: IMO
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 10:00 am ((PST))

"Lynette" <lraefried@...> wrote:
>
> I see IMO in a lot of messages, can someone please tell me what it
> stands for?
*****
IMO (In My Opinion)
IMHO (In My Humble Opinion)
IMNHO (In My Notso Humble Opinion)

HTH. (Hope this helps.)
Chris O (Ostrowski)

Messages in this topic (3)
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7c. Re: IMO
Posted by: "Jenny S" jenken69@shaw.ca jenken69
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 10:19 am ((PST))

Hi IMO stands for ' In My Opinion'...
Jenny S
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfMJXz3AvKI (doggy napkin)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L34YjdBCu8I( Fun in the pool) way to funny..

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8a. Beef neck
Posted by: "Lynette" lraefried@sbcglobal.net cherrysmomma
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 9:54 am ((PST))

I have a medium size 40 lb dog. Would it be OK to feed her chunks of
beef neck? Never see it whole, only in like 4 inch square size. The
bone looks like it would be too small and I worry that she would
swallow big chunks of it.

Lynette

Messages in this topic (3)
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8b. Re: Beef neck
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 12:22 pm ((PST))

>I have a medium size 40 lb dog. Would it be OK to feed her chunks of
>beef neck?

My dog is 35lb dog and gets little bigger than your fist sized Beef Nedck that I get from shoppers.

She is not gulper and she eats fine,so,I have no problem giving it to my dog.You know your dog's eating habits so,use that to judge the size.

since it is bony categoried items,I usually give boneless meat added to that neck meal. and my dog eats it fine.

If you were uncomfortable to give the Neck,try asking the meat guy behind the counter.He may have bigger chunk of Neck.

yassy

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8c. Re: Beef neck
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 12:22 pm ((PST))

The bone looks like it would be too small and I worry that she would swallow big chunks of it.Lynette

Lynnette,
It would depend if your dog is a chewer or, a gulper. Remember the rule of thumb here is feed pieces of anything that is bigger than their head. There are exceptions to the rule. I can give two of my large dogs smaller bones and they will chew away. I also have two who would swallow them whole.
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

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9a. Horse okay?
Posted by: "GaelicHounds" GaelicHounds@embarqmail.com vistadeliw
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 9:55 am ((PST))

>>>>>>> But, does
anyone else know much about feeding horse? Is that being their main
staple in their diet not a good idea? They have mostly been eating
chicken and beef and pork. ~Deb~ <<<<<<<<<<<

Years ago, my mom got a Manx kitten, he was fed only horsemeat
as that's what you could get those days, he lived 19+ years and
other than getting neutered, never saw a vet. Due to the
economy/depression, we even ate horsemeat sometimes.

marian, Creena, Gareth-gone on ahead, Solitaire & SamThePoodle
"Unanswered questions are not as dangerous as Unquestioned answers"

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9b. Re: Horse okay?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 10:06 am ((PST))

"Deb" <thegrittons@...> wrote:
But, does
> anyone else know much about feeding horse? Is that being their main
> staple in their diet not a good idea? They have mostly been eating
> chicken and beef and pork. Horse is going to be totally new to
them.
*****
Horse is an appropriate meat for dogs, yes. I think the bigger issue
(aside from the emotional content) is how healthy the horse was when
alive. Horses are medicated as much as if not more than dogs, if you
can imagine. Even if the horse was nominally "healthy" how truly
healthy can any animal be when jabbed for something or other every six
months or so its entire life?

I would want to know the circumstances of the horse's death as well as
its life, to whatever extent possible.
Chris O

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9c. Re: Horse okay?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 10:20 am ((PST))

If you visit Nagano prefecture in Japan,you are more likely have chance to eat thinly sliced horse meat(raw;we call this,ba sa shi). When I was a kid,one of the inn's dinner had it in menu and my dad ate it but not me.

Like chris said,if the horse was healthy,then, good for dog I think too.

yassy

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10a. Strange Vomit occurances
Posted by: "J" jocelyn7777@hotmail.com croint7777
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 9:56 am ((PST))

Hi everyone,

I've been rawfeeding for almost a year (longer if you count pre-made
raw), and this week has been a little interesting. My boy (smooth
collie mix) vomited early on Fri morning (about 4am) after eating a
turkey leg on Thurs. night. I didn't think anything of it... figured
too much bone. Well, he seemed to hock up most if not the whole
turkey leg- meat and bone (by the amount of the chunks in the
vomit...) So I cleaned it up and gave him a tiny bit of beef brisket
(which is his favorite) so I wouldn't have a bile vomit later in the
morning. No problems. He acted normal all day (playing, etc.) So,
that night he got his normal portion of food (again the last of the
brisket). No issues. Well, last night he got some Emu, and he again
woke me up vomiting all of it up around 6 am. This was really foul
(dark brown in color, and the smell- ughhhh... not what you want to
wake up and clean up.) I didn't give him any thing to eat, and he is
behaving normally now. Playing, etc.

Should I just fast him and give him a chance to clear out his system,
or should I worry and get him to a vet?

Thanks,

Jocelyn

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10b. Re: Strange Vomit occurances
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 12:22 pm ((PST))

>dark brown in color, and the smell- ughhhh... not what you want to
wake up and clean up.) I didn't give him any thing to eat, and he is
behaving normally now.

Hi,Jocelyn. I been feeding raw for 5 months now and,I got one vomit color like you describe.

Little greish with heaps of meat and bone in it.and that stinks a lot.

For me,it happened with Beef Ribs.

When I was asking this to list,my dog may have had virus thing in tum andI fasted one meal and I went back to normal feeding andshe been fine all time since then.

With curiousity,I tried Beef rib again other days but my dog digested it fine so,it is clear it was not Beef rib or anything she ate but something on that particular day.

After the heap amount of vomit with chunks, my dog refused water and no interests or whatsoever for cool down treat that she usually drool over...she was definitely down on that day.

Next day,she was normal her and was fine.

Since your dog is acting normal,maybe food was something??

Fat amount or food temp(too cold etc) or food amount??

yassy

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11a. Re: goat (was How large is a gorge meal?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 12:22 pm ((PST))

> where did you ever find a goat leg two times the size of his
head?!!?!

I wish I knew Asian store that sells goat meat like that near here.I knowAsian store but for me,I do not see much.

Palette's goat except organs and Elk are from Colorado farm. Shipping fee is bit pricy if I order small amount so,I get it bigger and stock up.

yassy

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12. Feeding Raw and Diabetes
Posted by: "DJagodzinski21@aol.com" DJagodzinski21@aol.com djagodzinski21
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 12:22 pm ((PST))

Would it be ok for me to feed raw to a Diabetic dog? The Canine Diabetic
groups seems to think there is more harm in feeding raw? They say that there is
alot of deaths because of the way we mass produce our foods? Also, because the
dogs don't get the right amount of nutrition, they have serious problems
later on from lthat? What do you guys think? Here's some of the links they told me
to read:

_http://www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk/BARF_Raw_Food_Diet.htm_

(http://www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk/BARF_Raw_Food_Diet.htm)

_http://www.consumersavvytips.org/what_is_the_barf_diet.html_

(http://www.consumersavvytips.org/what_is_the_barf_diet.html)

_http://www.canismajor.com/dog/barf.html_

(http://www.canismajor.com/dog/barf.html)

~Donna~

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13.1. Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oysters?
Posted by: "Yasuko herron" sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com sunshine_annamaria
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 12:22 pm ((PST))

>Ohhh...I give snowy pizzles/bullysticks. these are cow's testes i
think...

What is testes?? Bully stick is made from cows penus....yuck!! but dog likes it. My dog included:-P

yassy

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14a. Re: raw/calcium/phosphorus
Posted by: "Loraine Jesse" rothburg@hotmail.com loraine_jesse
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

My holistic vet said she would keep our puppy on at least half canned or kibble mixed with raw until she is 8 months old so that calcuim and phosphorus levels are maintained and good bones are made.
Sandy

Sandy,
I have played the little ki**le and B**f game for way too many years now. This group has been a light bulb for me and in a sense a life saver for my dogs. We have been so programmed into believing that we do not have the smarts or, scientific know how to feed our dogs. Yes I know it is very hard when so called Educated people who have choosen paths to heal animals give you advise that appears to be right on the mark. The thing is MOTHER NATURE has been bouncing up and down telling us that everything we have ever needed for our carnivores has been provided by her. Granted you will have worries and thoughts about things, but before you know it, the total confidence will seep in. So hang in, try to read through as many archives as possible, then one of these days, it all all click for you. Then you will know and be totally confident that Prey model feeding is the only correct way to feed our dogs, who are carnivores. I have two puppies who will be fed totally this way and of course a whole bunch of people who are going to be watching for sure.
Thank-heavens for this group

Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

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15. Deworming
Posted by: "trayc2244" BreeZ119@catt.com trayc2244
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 12:23 pm ((PST))

Do raw fed dogs need to be dewormed more than a dog on kibble?
How often do you deworm your dogs?

Thanks,
Tracy

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