[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12238

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1.1. File - Other related lists
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com

2a. File - Admin-Trim it, Sign it, and Sig lines-PLEASE READ!!!
From: rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com

3a. Re: Deworming
From: Sandee Lee
3b. Re: Deworming
From: jennifer_hell
3c. Re: Deworming
From: carnesbill
3d. ADMIN/Re: Deworming
From: costrowski75

4a. Re: Feeding Raw and Diabetes
From: Sandee Lee
4b. Re: Feeding Raw and Diabetes
From: carnesbill

5a. Mack
From: motyka_skathock
5b. Re: Mack
From: carnesbill

6a. Re: raw/calcium/phosphorus
From: cleavlet

7.1. Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oysters?
From: shefy gupta
7.2. Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oysters?
From: Sandee Lee
7.3. Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oysters?
From: connie

8a. Re: goat (was How large is a gorge meal?
From: shefy gupta

9a. Re: Beef neck
From: shefy gupta
9b. Re: Beef neck
From: carnesbill

10a. Re: Pregnancy question again
From: diannem200400
10b. Re: Pregnancy question again
From: costrowski75

11. challenges!
From: Linda Baldwin

12a. Re: Exactly what IS a knuckle bone?
From: costrowski75

13. While I am thinking of it---major thanks
From: brutus_buckley

14a. First chicken thigh...serious issue?
From: Laura Wimpey
14b. Re: First chicken thigh...serious issue?
From: Casey Post

15. Starting a puppy on RAW
From: charlesmdodson

Messages
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1.1. File - Other related lists
Posted by: "rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com" rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 12:34 pm ((PST))

This list is part of a group of lists run by the same moderation team. Since several of the lists are quite large we often encourage that threads be taken to some of the smaller subject specific lists so you may want to join the lists that cover issues you are interested in now.

The lists are:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oldrawguys/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/catandkittenhealth/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learntoshow/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DogHealth/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivoreFeed-Supplier/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dogmentor/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawbreeder/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawPup/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RMBLobby/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canineaggression/

And if you are stuck on a particular issue that you just can't seem to work out, try this list:

http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/rawissues

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BasicRaw/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalFerrets/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawVet/
For vets, vet techs and vet students only

There is also a list of lists where other raw feeding lists can be found. Many are breed specific, location specific or subject specific.

http://www.rawlearning.com

Thanks from the moderation team!

Messages in this topic (121)
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2a. File - Admin-Trim it, Sign it, and Sig lines-PLEASE READ!!!
Posted by: "rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com" rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 12:34 pm ((PST))

Hello all! (Don't delete without reading. Yes, there is a test later.)

Firstly, the raw feeding list was established in 1999. It has evolved under a couple of different names, but remains with primarily the same list moderation team.

This primary objective of the list is to provide a place where people who
feed raw food or who want to feed raw can discuss this and closely associated issues.

This is not a list to discuss which kibble or home cooking method is best.
There are other email lists that can provide you with that sort of forum.
The forum here is specifically to discuss appropriate raw diets.

*******A learning environment

We aim at all times to maintain a learning environment.
Every so often someone joins the list with a different agenda.
We work hard in the background to do everything we can to keep discussion on topic at all times, and those who don't find the environment comfortable (about 0.5%), we encourage to join other more suitable email lists.

The most important thing is you join a group you are comfortable with.
We acknowledge the vast differences that exist between people and their learning styles, and as you'll appreciate we can't make everyone happy.

Now for a few of the easy rules:

*******PLEASE TRIM YOUR POSTS

This means when you are replying to an email DO NOT include the ENTIRE EMAIL in your reply.

You can include a SMALL portion of the email you are replying to. Try to stick to a couple of relevant lines.

Delete all headers and footers.

List members who do not trim their posts will be placed on moderation.

**********PLEASE SIGN YOUR MAILS

This means when you are to sign your name at the bottom of every single mail you send to the list.

List members who continue to send unsigned posts after being warned risk having their mail deleted!!

**********CHANGE THE SUBJECT LINE WHEN THE SUBJECT CHANGES
This is a high volume list. Changing subject lines allows people to delete those messages that are topics they have no interest in. IF you change subject lines properly then when responding to a post of the same subject you should not have to include ANY of the email you are responding too since those reading the thread will be able to follow it anyway.

********NO MONSTER SIGNATURES PLEASE!
Several lines are ok but nothing over 4 lines please.
(and please don't advertise in your signatures either)

*********NEW MEMBERS ARE MODERATED.
You will not get OFF of moderate until you prove you can trim your posts and change your subject lines. ALSO the moderators do not have time to trim your posts for you so if a post comes through moderate that is not trimmed it will be sent back to you to trim before it is sent to the list.

If you are currently off of moderate but stop changing subject lines or trimming posts for some reason you will be put back on moderate.

Following these simple rules will make life easier for folks on digest
and save money for those folks who must PAY for their Internet by the amount of time they are on line.

Thanks so much.

List Moderators

Messages in this topic (11)
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3a. Re: Deworming
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 12:35 pm ((PST))

Tracy,

There is never a reason to routinely worm a dog...save the poisons for when
they are necessary! My Danes are 8 and 11 and have never been wormed.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "trayc2244" <BreeZ119@catt.com>

Do raw fed dogs need to be dewormed more than a dog on kibble?
How often do you deworm your dogs?

Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Re: Deworming
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 1:35 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "trayc2244" <BreeZ119@...> wrote:
>
> Do raw fed dogs need to be dewormed more than a dog on kibble?
> How often do you deworm your dogs?

I haven't dewormed my dog in four years. And she's been on k*bble
until a few weeks ago.

Jennifer with Mandy from Germany

Messages in this topic (5)
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3c. Re: Deworming
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 3:23 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "trayc2244" <BreeZ119@...> wrote:
>
> Do raw fed dogs need to be dewormed more than a dog on kibble?

No. My 7 year old Great Dane and 3 year old Great dane have never
been wormed. I had two Golden Retrievers for 12 years. One was
wormed one time the other, never.

> How often do you deworm your dogs?

When they get worms. Being raw fed won't make them have worms more
often.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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3d. ADMIN/Re: Deworming
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 6:27 pm ((PST))

Deworming is not necessarily a diet-driven process. Please take
further discussion to RawChat where there's more space available for
OT subjects.
Chris O
Moderation Team

Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Re: Feeding Raw and Diabetes
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 12:46 pm ((PST))

Hi Donna,

This is Nonsense! Those articles do not have one ounce of truth or fact in
them. Ignore them and read through the rawfeeding myths.....
http://rawfed.com/myths/index.html
http://rawfed.com/

There is no better way to feed a dog (or person) with diabetes....protein
and fat allow for much better control of blood sugar, decrease the need for
insulin, etc. It is the high carbohydrate diets that cause fluctuations in
glucose and put further strain on the pancreas.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: <DJagodzinski21@aol.com>

> Would it be ok for me to feed raw to a Diabetic dog? The Canine Diabetic
> groups seems to think there is more harm in feeding raw? They say that
there is
> alot of deaths because of the way we mass produce our foods? Also, because
the
> dogs don't get the right amount of nutrition, they have serious problems
> later on from lthat? What do you guys think? Here's some of the links they
told me
> to read:
>
> _http://www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk/BARF_Raw_Food_Diet.htm_
> (http://www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk/BARF_Raw_Food_Diet.htm)
>
> _http://www.consumersavvytips.org/what_is_the_barf_diet.html_
> (http://www.consumersavvytips.org/what_is_the_barf_diet.html)
>
> _http://www.canismajor.com/dog/barf.html_
> (http://www.canismajor.com/dog/barf.html)

Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: Feeding Raw and Diabetes
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 3:23 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, DJagodzinski21@... wrote:
>
> Would it be ok for me to feed raw to a Diabetic dog?

Yes, a prey model raw diet is the perfect diet for a diabetic dog.
No carbs.

> The Canine Diabetic
> groups seems to think there is more harm in feeding raw?

Thats not an uncommon way of thinking from people who have never fed
raw. There are a lot of misconceptions about raw feeding and only
raw feeders know these are misconceptions.

> They say that there is
> alot of deaths because of the way we mass produce our foods?

I supose you are talking about grocery store foods. I eat grocery
store foods every day and so do my dogs. There is question as to
whether they are as good as food were 100 years ago but hey,
hundreds of millions of people are eating this food every day. I
never give it a second thought either for myself or my dogs.

> Also, because the dogs don't get the right amount of nutrition,
> they have serious problems later on from lthat?

I have heard that statement from people who have never fed raw for
years. I always ask a person making such a statement exactly what
nutrients are missing from the diet. Either they don't know or they
answer incorrectly by stating some nutrient is missing which
certainly is not. Some say too much fat, some say too little fat,
some say too much protein, some say too much calcium, others say not
enough calcium.

Millions of years of evolution have proved that the nutrients in a
prey model raw diet is exactly the right amount of everything. If
not, wolves wouldn't have thrived for millions of years.

> What do you guys think? Here's some of
> the links they told me
> to read:

I read all the links. All three are full of the misconceptions that
people who have never fed raw have. For example, salmonella. Yes,
raw food sometimes contains salmonella. Yes our dogs eat salmonella
pretty regularly. They never get sick. The people who live with
them never get sick. Other animals that live with them never get
sick. Children don't get sick. Grandchildren don't get sick. THe
elderly living with the dogs don't get sick. The "nobody is getting
sick" is the part the non raw feeders have no clue about. There are
many many other misconceptions held by non raw feeders that are all
absolutely wrong.

Let me repeat that a prey model raw diet is perfect for feeding a
diabetic dog. It is nature's diabetic diet.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Mack
Posted by: "motyka_skathock" motyka_skathock@yahoo.com motyka_skathock
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 1:51 pm ((PST))

As I mentioned before I can't access the archives, my comp is weird. I
have three questions that are probably not a very big deal however two
of them seem like it to me.
1) Mack has started to not show interest in breakfast. Should I offer
him a "snack" at midday instead of a meal in the morning?
2) He seems to be a bit more gassy and noxious than before, is this
just his body detoxing off of kibble or should I be concerned? He is
still on chicken only.
3) I don't know how to tell his adult size. He already outweighs his
mom by 15lbs and stands 6 inches taller, he outweighs his dad by about
10lbs and is 4 inches taller.

Thanks guys,
Kris and Mack

Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Mack
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 3:23 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "motyka_skathock"
<motyka_skathock@...> wrote:
>
> 1) Mack has started to not show interest in breakfast. Should
> I offer him a "snack" at midday instead of a meal in the morning?

I would just offer him one meal sometime during the day. The timing
doesn't matter.

> 2) He seems to be a bit more gassy and noxious than before, is this
> just his body detoxing off of kibble or should I be concerned?

I don't believe in the term "detoxing" but it could very well be his
bondy learning to digest real food. You might remove skin and excess
fat for a few weeks to make digestion a little easier.

> 3) I don't know how to tell his adult size.

As far as using his ideal adult weight to determine food volume, don't
be too concerned about it. Keep an eye on his build. If he starts
getting fat, feed less. If he gets too ribby, feed more. Remember a
skinny dog is healthy. You should be able to see or feel his last two
ribs and not be able to see his hip bone or spine.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: raw/calcium/phosphorus
Posted by: "cleavlet" cleavlet@yahoo.com cleavlet
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 2:05 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "beaulah_2001us"
<beaulah_2001us@...> wrote:
>
> My holistic vet said she would keep our puppy on at least half canned
> or kibble mixed with raw until she is 8 months old so that calcuim and
> phosphorus levels are maintained and good bones are made.
>

Sandy,

Just about a month ago I too had concerns about the calcium/phosphorus
balance for my puppy. I received the same encouragement that you are
now enjoying from fellow raw feeders.

Digging a bit further (online) I came across this first rate article
that totally supports their message and explains the complexities in a
way that I can understand and appreciate; enjoy:
http://k9joy.com/dogarticles/CalciumPhosphorous.php

Cleavon

Messages in this topic (6)
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7.1. Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oysters?
Posted by: "shefy gupta" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 2:58 pm ((PST))

i think testes is another word for penis. yeh they seem to love it. i order the big bravo ones and snowy does his happy dance for a good 5 minutes everytime he gets a new one...

shefy and snowy

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Ohhh...I give snowy pizzles/bullysticks. these are cow's testes i
think...

What is testes?? Bully stick is made from cows penus....yuck!! but dog likes it. My dog included:-P

yassy

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Messages in this topic (33)
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7.2. Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oysters?
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 3:56 pm ((PST))

Ummmm...didn't you guys ever take sex education???? Testes are
testicles....a penis is a penis. Anything else you wanna know?????
ROTFL!!!!

Oh, and Bully sticks are dehydrated penis.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "shefy gupta" <shefy7@yahoo.com>

> i think testes is another word for penis. yeh they seem to love it. i
order the big bravo ones and snowy does his happy dance for a good 5 minutes
everytime he gets a new one...
>
> shefy and snowy
>
> Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Ohhh...I give snowy pizzles/bullysticks. these are cow's testes i
> think...
>
> What is testes?? Bully stick is made from cows penus....yuck!! but dog
likes it. My dog included:-P

Messages in this topic (33)
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7.3. Re: Ok, no more talk about bloat, how about Mountain Oysters?
Posted by: "connie" justbullies@hotmail.com bullienut
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 4:31 pm ((PST))

> > i think testes is another word for penis. yeh they seem to love it.
i
> order the big bravo ones and snowy does his happy dance for a good 5
minutes
> everytime he gets a new one...
> >
> > shefy and snowy

LMAO!!! This isn`t what I learned in my A&P (anatomy & physiology)
class from college....this was way to funny!! I was wondering if you
guys do any dog breeding??...LOL...
~connie~
and a bunch of bulldogs
www.justbullies.com

Messages in this topic (33)
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8a. Re: goat (was How large is a gorge meal?
Posted by: "shefy gupta" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 2:58 pm ((PST))

hi yassy

could you send me the link to where you buy the goat from? is it literally from the state of colorado?

i might have to get a bigger freezer...

i'm in california..hehe...

shefy and snowy

Yasuko herron <sunshine_annamaria@yahoo.com> wrote:
> where did you ever find a goat leg two times the size of his
head?!!?!

I wish I knew Asian store that sells goat meat like that near here.I knowAsian store but for me,I do not see much.

Palette's goat except organs and Elk are from Colorado farm. Shipping fee is bit pricy if I order small amount so,I get it bigger and stock up.

yassy

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Messages in this topic (10)
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9a. Re: Beef neck
Posted by: "shefy gupta" shefy7@yahoo.com shefy7
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 2:58 pm ((PST))

OK I have a question about this. I know Snowy is a gulper, usually. Sometimes he does chew, like turkey necks. But if we give them a bone/meat thing that's bigger than their head, can't they still get off chunks of bone and swallow anyways?

they are smart little buggers...i'm going to the asian market to see what types of meat they have, safeway doesn't have any good skin/furry stuff :)

thanks!

shefy and snowy

Loraine Jesse <rothburg@hotmail.com> wrote:

The bone looks like it would be too small and I worry that she would swallow big chunks of it.Lynette

Lynnette,
It would depend if your dog is a chewer or, a gulper. Remember the rule of thumb here is feed pieces of anything that is bigger than their head. There are exceptions to the rule. I can give two of my large dogs smaller bones and they will chew away. I also have two who would swallow them whole.
Loraine Jessewww.rothburgrottweilers.com

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Messages in this topic (5)
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9b. Re: Beef neck
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 3:30 pm ((PST))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, shefy gupta <shefy7@...> wrote:
>
> But if we give them a bone/meat thing that's bigger than
> their head, can't they still get off chunks of bone and
> swallow anyways?

Yes, but they will have to chew to get it. He will swallow chunks.
Dogs don't chew like humans. We chew our food into a mush before we
swallow. Dogs only crunch, rip, and tear off chunks small enough to
fit down their throat and they can swallow some amazingly large
chunks. Dogs also have the ability to swallow "backwards". In
other words if they swallow something they realize is too big, they
can just bring it back for more chewing even before it gets to their
stomach. That happens regularly.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (5)
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10a. Re: Pregnancy question again
Posted by: "diannem200400" diannem200400@yahoo.com diannem200400
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 3:23 pm ((PST))

Hi Cris and thanks for the response: She is 30 days into her
pregnancy. Pre-breeding, she would eat anything raw put in front of
her, with enormous relish. About 2 weeks ago, she began to refuse
things, first bone, then fat, then some meats. She has been offered
beef heart, beef sirloin, pork butt, goat, rabbit, spareribs and
venison. She will eat some beef heart if all the fat is trimmed off;
any organ, but especially kidney, and some venison. I could probably
keep her going on trimmed beef heart and venison, but does this give
her the array of vitamins and minerals she needs? I thought of the NB
rolls only because 1)they do have added vitamins, etc. and 2) she will
eat as much of it as I will feed her. I don't like it, but I'm getting
concerned.

Dianne M.

-- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "costrowski75" <Chriso75@...> wrote:

> If she won't eat anything else, sure; but how much anything else have
> you tried?
>
> What have you been offering and how far along is she?
> Chris O
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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10b. Re: Pregnancy question again
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 6:41 pm ((PST))

"diannem200400" <diannem200400@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Cris and thanks for the response: She is 30 days into her
> pregnancy. Pre-breeding, she would eat anything raw put in front
of
> her, with enormous relish. About 2 weeks ago, she began to refuse
> things, first bone, then fat, then some meats. She has been
offered
> beef heart, beef sirloin, pork butt, goat, rabbit, spareribs and
> venison. She will eat some beef heart if all the fat is trimmed
off;
> any organ, but especially kidney, and some venison. I could
probably
> keep her going on trimmed beef heart and venison,
*****
Hard to knock kidney, heart and venison. You try liver? No go on
chicken?

It does seem odd to me (me with zipola experience with pregnant
bitches) that she would get so picky so early on. Is she "normal"
otherwise? Have you had her to the vet? Yeesh, I suppose it could
be nausea this early. In which case she might get through it and
back to a broader variety.

Can you figure out what's in the NB rolls that pleases her? And
then reconstruct it, minus the inappropriate stuff? Would she be
interested in eating other meats mixed into the NB product?

What we need here are some voices of experience! Certainly you
aren't the only one for whom the bitch wouldn't eat.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (4)
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11. challenges!
Posted by: "Linda Baldwin" ljbcandr@yahoo.com ljbcandr
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 5:59 pm ((PST))

Hi there!
I have a 14 mth lab retriever, fed raw from birth. He came to us at 5 months and was fine up to about 2 months ago. We are having problems with gas, diarhea, vomiting. I feed chicken carcass, raw ground beef, salmon - with occasional eggs, yogurt, cottage cheese. Any ideas what could be causing his problems. Our older dog switched to raw when we adopted the pup and hasn't looked back! It's frustrating - he turns his nose up at organ meats. Can dogs have ulcers or sensitive stomachs? I appreciate any advice!
Linda
ljbcandr@yahoo.com

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Messages in this topic (1)
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12a. Re: Exactly what IS a knuckle bone?
Posted by: "costrowski75" Chriso75@AOL.COM costrowski75
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 6:07 pm ((PST))

Anntiga@... wrote:>
> http://bovine.unl.edu/bovine3D/eng/bonep.jsp
>
>
>
> What a great site!
*****
Weren't me what found it...this excellent website was found by our own
Internet Dominatrix Giselle.

Definitely a keeper, no? LOL, both her and the list.
Chris O

Messages in this topic (13)
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13. While I am thinking of it---major thanks
Posted by: "brutus_buckley" brutus_buckley@yahoo.com brutus_buckley
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 6:44 pm ((PST))

I know I will forget later, so I wanted to mention while it's fresh in
my mind that my one year anniversary feeding raw is coming up (11/19)
and (yes, I keep track. I am a dork) I realize how much I have learned
this past year. I can not thank you all enough!! What a great gruop of
people you all are. My dogs would say thanks too but they are busy
eating some emu right now. <g>

-Renee W.

Messages in this topic (1)
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14a. First chicken thigh...serious issue?
Posted by: "Laura Wimpey" laura.wimpey@yahoo.com laura.wimpey
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 6:45 pm ((PST))

I presented both my dogs (English Setter, 30 lbs, 1.5 yrs old & Mix, 55lbs, 3 yrs old) with their first chicken thighs today. The Setter approached hers daintily and took over an hour to eat 3/4 of it. She loved it and did not present any vomiting or other ill effects. My serious problem though is with the our mix dog, Elias.

It took him about 15-20 minutes to eat his thigh. He crushed up the bone well enough because I watched and heard him chewing it. About an hour passed and he did the "vomit and try again" with a small pile of bones. He left a small pile too, without re-eating it. Since then he's been vomiting every 30 minutes or so what started as a yellowish bile and moved to a foamy white viscous type bile. This has gone on for about four hours. He seems restless, uncomfortable and depressed. He's drunk about 8 oz of water. We've monitored him constantly. I've combed the archives and this seems to go beyond the typical "adjustment" to raw feeding. Perhaps I missed some posts addressing the issue....

Can this be possible symptoms of pancreatitis? Can it manifest quickly like that, just with one food? How should I approach this?

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Messages in this topic (2)
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14b. Re: First chicken thigh...serious issue?
Posted by: "Casey Post" mikken@neo.rr.com mikkeny
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 7:14 pm ((PST))

> It took him about 15-20 minutes to eat his thigh.

A 55 lb dog took 15 minutes to eat a chicken thigh? That's quite slow, so I
seriously doubt "not enough chewing" is the issue.

>>About an hour passed and he did the "vomit and try again" with a small
>>pile of bones.

No meat, just bones? Bile and bone bit vomit?

>>He left a small pile too, without re-eating it. Since then he's been
>>vomiting every 30 minutes or so what started as a yellowish bile and moved
>>to a foamy white viscous type bile.

I have to ask - were the chicken thighs these dogs' first raw meal? Because
it's unusual to see bile and bone bit vomit an hour after eating...it's
usually many hours (which is why this vomit is often seen in the wee hours
of the morning).

>>This has gone on for about four hours. He seems restless, uncomfortable
>>and depressed. He's drunk about 8 oz of water. We've monitored him
>>constantly. I've combed the archives and this seems to go beyond the
>>typical "adjustment" to raw feeding. Perhaps I missed some posts
>>addressing the issue....
>
> Can this be possible symptoms of pancreatitis? Can it manifest quickly
> like that, just with one food? How should I approach this?

Extremely unlikely to be pancreatitis from one chicken thigh an hour before.
The "restless and depressed" does concern me, however. Do you know the
symptoms of bloat? Wait, let me do a quickie search...here's one of the
first that comes up -

http://www.globalspan.net/bloat.htm

Bloat would be my primary concern as it can affect any dog of any breed of
any age.

Casey

Messages in this topic (2)
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15. Starting a puppy on RAW
Posted by: "charlesmdodson" charlesmdodson@yahoo.com charlesmdodson
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 7:48 pm ((PST))

Hello,

First off, thanks for all the advice, both current and past. It
has been awesome for my wife and I to learn from you all.

I have fed a pup (6 mos) on raw, so I have some experience doing
it, but now I have a new puppy that is just 10 weeks old. When can I
start him on raw and what should I do? I am sure the answer to when
is "now", but I dont know the in's and outs of what to do for such a
little guy. Like I said, he is 10 weeks old and he is 18 lbs. He is
a red doberman male and will probably weigh 85-90 lbs when grown. Do
I simply start him on chicken and slowly work him in just like I did
before? Thanks for any advice.. Charles

Messages in this topic (1)
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