[rawfeeding] Digest Number 12125

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: MO - Raw feeders?
From: Pam Staley

2a. Whats really in dog food atricles?
From: Felicia Kost
2b. Re: Whats really in dog food atricles?
From: T Smith

3a. Re: quarters turn into thighs and drumsticks
From: carnesbill
3b. Re: quarters turn into thighs and drumsticks
From: Andrea

4a. Re: List on Freecycle
From: carnesbill
4b. Re: List on Freecycle
From: mgitaville
4c. Re: List on Freecycle
From: girlndocs
4d. Re: List on Freecycle
From: john payne

5a. Introducing raw- which order? (was:Newbie with a question)
From: jennifer_hell
5b. Re: Introducing raw- which order? (was:Newbie with a question)
From: Andrea
5c. Re: Introducing raw- which order? (was:Newbie with a question)
From: mgitaville
5d. Re: Introducing raw- which order? (was:Newbie with a question)
From: jennifer_hell
5e. Re: Introducing raw- which order? (was:Newbie with a question)
From: jennifer_hell

6a. Re: Fresh Pork? Safe?
From: Jamie Dolan

7a. Re: NEED ADVICE - BOWEL DISTRESS
From: gbongi1

8a. First week feeding raw
From: Tracy
8b. Re: First week feeding raw
From: Andrea
8c. Re: First week feeding raw
From: Sandee Lee
8d. Re: First week feeding raw
From: Tracy

9. How can I crush bones but NOT grind them ?
From: never_connected

10. there's no denying the evidence! I t really works!!
From: Marisa

11a. Re: A good raw-inspired chew?
From: Kathie Middlemiss

12. A report
From: Carol Dunster

13a. Re: Is This Natuutal? (MEREDITH)
From: Roseann

Messages
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1a. Re: MO - Raw feeders?
Posted by: "Pam Staley" pam@tlcnaturally.com mogalone2001
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 10:34 am ((PDT))

I've had a couple people email me that they are from MO - and are
interested in this free organs/meat that is available from my local
butcher - if anyone else is interested from MO - I'd like to get a MO
list going - please email me off line if you're interested in it -
probably would be mostly for notices on where we can network for
sharing raw meat supplies - so probably not a whole lot of emails
flying back and forth - in fact, think I'll just make one up now - if
you want to join it - go to to yahoogroups.com and plug in Missouri
Natural Pets - or email me and I'll send you an invitation - not sure
how long it will take yahoo to get it listed. This is strictly for
MISSOURI raw feeders - let's network together!

Pam
pam@tlcnaturally.com

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Vicki" <vicki@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Pam Staley" <pam@> wrote:
> >
> > Is there a list or does anyone know of MO raw - feeders? I've
found a
> > source that can supply 500-1000lbs of free meat - hearts/livers/
> > kidneys ect ect... need to spread it around :-)
> >
> > Pam
> > Wright City, MO
> >
> I am here in Spokane, MO, just south of Springfield and would be
very
> interested...
>
> Vicki
>

Messages in this topic (9)
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2a. Whats really in dog food atricles?
Posted by: "Felicia Kost" saphiradane@yahoo.com saphiradane
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 10:35 am ((PDT))

My friend just started her dog and cat to raw. I have been helping her get started and all is going well. Her boyfriend happens to be a vet tech/ prevet major. He is chewing her up one side and down the other over the raw food. He told her it will cause liver and kidney failure and she is killing her pets. She has lots of info on the raw diet, benefits, getting started ect. So far she is staying strong! Can anyone direct me to some articles that grously describe what is in kibble? Thought if he read a convincing one maybe he would back off of what she feeds her pets. I know they are there but I can't find them know that I need them! Any other suggestions would be apprectiated. Felicia

---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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2b. Re: Whats really in dog food atricles?
Posted by: "T Smith" coldbeach@gmail.com lhasaspots
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 11:34 am ((PDT))

Who's dogs are they?
simple as that.
If he is unwilling to view & reasearch all alternatives, I hope he is NEVER
EVER EVER a vet!!!
Tell her to find a supportive b/f :-)
My pets come before any man
Take care,
Trina

On 10/5/07, Felicia Kost <saphiradane@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> My friend just started her dog and cat to raw. I have been helping her
> get started and all is going well. Her boyfriend happens to be a vet tech/
> prevet major. He is chewing her up one side and down the other over the raw
> food. He told her it will cause liver and kidney failure and she is killing
> her pets. She has lots of info on the raw diet, benefits, getting started
> ect. So far she is staying strong! Can anyone direct me to some articles
> that grously describe what is in kibble? Thought if he read a convincing one
> maybe he would back off of what she feeds her pets. I know they are there
> but I can't find them know that I need them! Any other suggestions would be
> apprectiated. Felicia
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: quarters turn into thighs and drumsticks
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 10:37 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Roseann <rgabrys@...> wrote:
>
> So, if I give my Great Dane a quarter, she just snaps it in
> half and
> chomps the bones into pencil sharp pieces (I've seen those
> pieces in a
> morning reject/barf 12 hours after she had dinner) then swallows.

A couple of things here. First, you are equating dog chewing with
human chewing. They are entirely different processes. Humans chew
food into a mush before swallowing. Human digestion begins in the
mouth. Dogs mearly crunch bones and meat into something small
enough to fit down the throat. Some real big pices can fit down a
big dog's throat. Dog digestion begins in the stomach.

Second, those "sharp" pieces are not as sharp as they look. Also
dog's "innards" are much tougher than you give them credit for.

> To
> me, it seems as though cutting the quarter for her would allo
> her to
> chew up the smaller pieces more and reduce the size of the
> bones before
> she swallows them.

Your thinking is backward here. If you give a big dog smaller
pieces they just swallow them whole with no chewing. My Danes have
stolen the cat's chicken drumstick several times and never chomp one
time. It just goes in the mouth nnd down the throat. It has hever
hurt them. There has never been any adverse consequences but they
need to chew for dental hygene.

> Don't big dogs consume the entire thing, bones and
> all?

Yep

> I find the same to be true with backs--bigger pieces
> get swallowed
> in bigger hunks vs smaller chunks get more chewing. I'm
> kinda confused...

Heh heh, yes you are. Dogs CAN and usually do swallow pieces large
enough to kill a human. Its the difference in how their digestive
system is designed. Smaller pieces don't need chewing and won't get
chewed. Great Danes (I have 2 of them) can easily swallow something
almost as large as your fist. I often feed my dogs big chunks of
beef heart from my hand that don't get chewed. Just straight down
the chute.

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (11)
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3b. Re: quarters turn into thighs and drumsticks
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 10:38 am ((PDT))

IME, a dog that eats a leg quarter quickly will eat a lone thigh or leg
even more quickly with less chewing. The thing is that dogs don't
really have to chew their food into little bits before eating. If they
get a big chunk down it will digest in their stomach. If the bone
takes too long to digest the dog often just horks it back up later. No
harm, no foul. If you want to slow your dog down it is best to offer
bigger pieces (half chicken) or partially freeze it so it offers more
resistance.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, Roseann <rgabrys@...> wrote:

> So, if I give my Great Dane a quarter, she just snaps it in half
> and chomps the bones into pencil sharp pieces (I've seen those
> pieces in a morning reject/barf 12 hours after she had dinner) then
> swallows. To me, it seems as though cutting the quarter for her
> would allow her to chew up the smaller pieces more and reduce the
> size of the bones before she swallows them.

Messages in this topic (11)
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4a. Re: List on Freecycle
Posted by: "carnesbill" carnesw@bellsouth.net carnesbill
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 10:37 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, john payne <brendajohn2823@...>
wrote:
>
> in fact ive personally converted 4 people this way.

Oh, I NEVER convert anyone who is a source of free meat!!! :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

Messages in this topic (6)
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4b. Re: List on Freecycle
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 11:19 am ((PDT))

You are doing better than I - the freecycle lists I belong to around
here will not allow me to post this type of message (asking for
meat)....well, told me basically if I did it again I would be removed.
Apparently they received complaints about it b/c thought it
was "creepy"...umm, ok, whatever. I kindly pointed out that in now way
was I violating any of the guidelines and in fact had GIVEN away other
surplus food items just earlier in the month. I was ignored after this.

I say just ignore the emails that come in that are not helpful.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (6)
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4c. Re: List on Freecycle
Posted by: "girlndocs" girlndocs@hotmail.com girlndocs
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 11:34 am ((PDT))

Hi Carole,

> "Please consider the following: -strangers can be evil. You just
> never know if a stranger has added poison, antifreeze, or other
> harmful things to your pet's possible food.

Yes, and thousands of people are also convinced their children are at
risk for poisoned/tampered Halloween candy from strangers, although I
don't think there's been a single substantiated instance of it. And
thousands of people are convinced that around Halloween gangs of
Satanists sacrifice black cats, although I don't think there's been a
single substantiated instance of THAT either.

"A PERSON is smart. PEOPLE are dumb, stupid, panicky animals." True,
that Men In Black line. We live in an age where information travels
faster than common sense.

I actually considered this risk when I first ran my ads. I concluded
that it was vanishingly small enough for me to dismiss.

First as someone mentioned, you'll be picking this meat up at their
house. You'll know where they live and what their names are. You'll
meet them and chat with them, and your intuition will have plenty of
chance to scream at you if there's anything "off" about them.

Second, for the most part you're going to be getting frozen hunks of
meat -- think about the likelihood that someone would inject meat with
poison and then store it in their freezer on the off chance that
someday, someone with a pet will ask for it.

Third, does she really think that anyone with half a brain wouldn't be
able to detect antifreeze in meat? And if it's not antifreeze how many
animal-haters are running around with deadly poisons that dogs
wouldn't detect?

My solution to this perceived risk was to use the same common sense
that I would buying or accepting meat for my own use. If it smells or
looks strange, don't feed it. If the dogs balk at it, don't feed it.
If the person giving it to me sets off my weirdometer, don't feed it.
If anything about the situation seems off or makes me uneasy, don't
feed it. Otherwise, I am confortable enjoying the fruits of creative
money-saving without freaking out about every minute possibility of
danger.

I firmly believe that when we live in a state of fear about every
little tiny horror story anyone has ever heard or invented, we not
only rob ourselves of experiencing life -- we cripple ourselves when
it comes to detecting REAL danger.

Everyone is free to determine their own level of comfort for taking
risks. But nothing in life is risk-free, you have to remember that. To
me, worrying about the remote possibility that a dog-hating psycho
might poison my Freecycle meat is the raw feeding equivalent of
strapping myself to the sofa.

Kristin

Messages in this topic (6)
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4d. Re: List on Freecycle
Posted by: "john payne" brendajohn2823@yahoo.com brendajohn2823
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 11:35 am ((PDT))

yes, but they were so interested and the one ladies little poodle looked terrible, patchs of skin showing and hot spots, now the little guy is all healthy and happy. another one had a mastiff that would not eat k****e, she had like 6 open bags and he hated them, so at least he's now eating.
B

carnesbill <carnesw@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, john payne <brendajohn2823@...>
wrote:
>
> in fact ive personally converted 4 people this way.

Oh, I NEVER convert anyone who is a source of free meat!!! :) :) :)

Bill Carnes
http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

Feeding Raw since October 2002

"Unnatural diets predispose animals to unnatural outcomes"
Dr. Tom Lonsdale

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Messages in this topic (6)
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5a. Introducing raw- which order? (was:Newbie with a question)
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 10:37 am ((PDT))

>Here's what I will
> be able to get in the next couple of months:
> Chicken:
> carcasses, heart, stomach, liver
> Turkey:
> carcasses, necks
> Lamb:
> heart, liver, lungs, part of the stomach,ribs, spine.
I found a source for beef midriff (diaphragm). Hope I can get more
beef there. Would I introduce chicken and turkey first, then lamb,
then beef? Would that be okay? I'd start out with chicken and chicken
heart and stomach, then add turkey necks, then carcasse, then lamb,
then beef?
Gosh, being a newbie is indeed nerve- wrecking!
Thanks for any input!
Jennifer with Mandy from Germany

Messages in this topic (5)
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5b. Re: Introducing raw- which order? (was:Newbie with a question)
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 11:18 am ((PDT))

The order doesn't really matter as long as you give the stomach time in
between to get used to the new protein. It appears that more fatty
meats take more getting used to than others, so your idea of leaving
the lamb and beef for last is a good one.

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jennifer_hell" <jenniferhell@...>
wrote:

> I'd start out with chicken and chicken heart and stomach, then add
> turkey necks, then carcasse, then lamb, then beef?

Messages in this topic (5)
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5c. Re: Introducing raw- which order? (was:Newbie with a question)
Posted by: "mgitaville" mgitaville@hotmail.com mgitaville
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 11:19 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "jennifer_hell" <jenniferhell@...>
wrote:
>
> >Here's what I will
> > be able to get in the next couple of months:
> > Chicken:
> > carcasses, heart, stomach, liver
> > Turkey:
> > carcasses, necks
> > Lamb:
> > heart, liver, lungs, part of the stomach,ribs, spine.
> I found a source for beef midriff (diaphragm). Hope I can get more
> beef there. Would I introduce chicken and turkey first, then lamb,
> then beef? Would that be okay? I'd start out with chicken and
chicken
> heart and stomach, then add turkey necks, then carcasse, then lamb,
> then beef?
> Gosh, being a newbie is indeed nerve- wrecking!
> Thanks for any input!
> Jennifer with Mandy from Germany
>

***** I do not think it is as important to think about *which*
protien source to start with as much as it is important to think
about *what* part of that source to feed. For example, starting with
chicken, turkey, or even pork (though my recomendation is for
chicken) would be fine IF it is a raw meaty born portion. However,
you mentioned things like heart, stomach, liver, etc. that I would
wait until you get a month in for. So, it may be best to do chicken,
pork, beef and THEN go back to chicken heart or stomach, beef heart
or liver, etc.

Make sense? You want to put the "rich" items on the backburner at
first. Items like lamb and venison are rich meats as well so I
wouldn't start with them.

I think it is important as a newbie to not introduce more than one
new item a week. Some dogs don't adjust as quickly and need even
more time. So, start with chicken for example and give it for a
week. If all is well then try maybe pork the next week so now you
are giving pork and chicken during hte 2nd week. If all is well try
something else. Around week 5 try small bits of liver or other
organs. This is my recommendation.

Marguerita

Messages in this topic (5)
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5d. Re: Introducing raw- which order? (was:Newbie with a question)
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 11:34 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> The order doesn't really matter as long as you give the stomach time in
> between to get used to the new protein.

Thank you. That's reassuring. =)

Jennifer with Mandy from Germany

Messages in this topic (5)
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5e. Re: Introducing raw- which order? (was:Newbie with a question)
Posted by: "jennifer_hell" jenniferhell@web.de jennifer_hell
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 11:35 am ((PDT))

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "mgitaville" <mgitaville@...> wrote:

> ***** I do not think it is as important to think about *which*
> protien source to start with as much as it is important to think
> about *what* part of that source to feed. For example, starting with
> chicken, turkey, or even pork (though my recomendation is for
> chicken) would be fine IF it is a raw meaty born portion. However,
> you mentioned things like heart, stomach, liver, etc. that I would
> wait until you get a month in for.

Makes totally sense to me. So I might be feeding a little too much
bone in the beginning, but will feed more meat when I'll be able to
add the beef and heart. Does that sound okay? I might come the beef
midriff after a week or so then, depending on how my dog tolerates the
chicken.

Jennifer with Mandy from Germany

Messages in this topic (5)
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6a. Re: Fresh Pork? Safe?
Posted by: "Jamie Dolan" jamiedolan@gmail.com jamiedolan
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 10:39 am ((PDT))

> I'd say you have scored. You wrote the pig you got was frozen. Do
> you know how long? My guess is whatever freezing it got is plenty.

It was still Oinkin about there days ago at this time. They killed
him some time tuesday afternoon. So he has only been frozen since
late tuesday or perhaps wednesday morning if he was just chilled
overnight.

> *****
> I don't know enough of the gory details to be of much help. Perhaps
> others can offer up some answers.
> Chris O

I did find this online last night:

"Trichinella is killed when pork is frozen at minus 5 degrees F for 25
days OR to minus 22 degrees F for 25 hours."

I am not sure how cold my freezers are though... And I am not sure if
the trich is even a problem in the first place.

Jamie

Messages in this topic (14)
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7a. Re: NEED ADVICE - BOWEL DISTRESS
Posted by: "gbongi1" gbongi1@comcast.net gbongi1
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 11:34 am ((PDT))

>
> I also think you went too fast. I suggest you fast her for a day,
> then feed her nothing but chicken for 2 weeks. Be sure there is
> plenty of bone in the chicken.

I am a newbie too and I used too much variety at first.

> After 2 weeks add some turkey meals a couple of times that week. A
> week later add a pork meal or 2. A week later, try beef again. A
> week later try some fish.

Per my trainer she also suggested a 24 hour fast with beef broth and
water during fast. And I was to add more breast meet to the bone meat
(I was giving too much bone).
Ever since the fast he's been doing great!!! (3 weeks a go)

I feed my guy primarily chicken (whole over time) with organ. Lamb and
beef hearts and lamb kidneys thus far.
I am no expert but I will be adding more of a variety at a much slower
pace now

I haven't been dong this long but my buddy is leaner, faster and all
muscle. Very strong for a dog his size. I do believe in the raw diet
so far.

take care

~g~

Messages in this topic (4)
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8a. First week feeding raw
Posted by: "Tracy" thibodeaux_tracy@msn.com itstracyt
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 11:38 am ((PDT))

Hi,
I have a few questions in which any help would be greatly
apreciated. We have a 5 year old 100lb Lab who for the most part
has always been very healthy. After reading so much on the benefits
of raw feeding I've decided to give it a try. Begining this week,
we start feeding him raw chicken as suggested my many posts I've
read on this board. He been getting a little over 2 lbs whole or
split chicken once a day. He used to eat 2 times a day so this has
been very difficult for him to adjust to. The two problems I have
right now is that he is a bit of scarfer when it comes to food. So,
I began giving him partialy frozen chicken which has slowed him down
a bit. But, for some reason he has not gotten the concept of laying
down and using his paws to rip at the meat and instead stands over
it and scrapes with his teeth to get meat off then breaks huge
pieces of bone and tries to eat it at one time. I've found myself,
more than once, taking a quarter of a chicken from his mouth and
having to hold it so he will rip it apart. I don't know how to get
him to lay down and use his paws. Any suggestions??

The other problem is that he had runny stools for about 3 days then
solid for 2 days (which I was very pleased to see). But now today
its runny again. We haven't changed anything since begining so I'm
not sure what the problem is or if I should be concerned.

Thanks for your help,
Tracy

Messages in this topic (4)
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8b. Re: First week feeding raw
Posted by: "Andrea" poketmouse45@yahoo.com poketmouse45
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 12:30 pm ((PDT))

Some dogs just don't enjoy laying down to eat. Some flat out refuse
to touch their paws to their food no matter what. My newf mix puppy
always plops down next to his food at chowtime, but he doesn't use
his feet except to position the food. My GSP mix almost always eats
standing up and uses his paws to hold down big food. Neither dog
seems to think they need their paws for chicken. There have been
other posts today about dogs eating habits. What we think is
impossibly big for them to swallow usually isn't a big deal to them.

Have you been including the heart/liver/gizzard with the whole
chickens? I would save them for later on down the road if you
haven't already. These might be the cause of they runny poo. If you
have already removed the giblets he's probably getting too much
food. Back off on the amount a little bit until his digestion
settles out. At that point, use his physique to tell you if he needs
more or less food. If you can't see his last two ribs or you can't
easily feel them under his coat you can cut back the food. HTH

Andrea

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Tracy" <thibodeaux_tracy@...>
wrote:

> for some reason he has not gotten the concept of laying
> down and using his paws to rip at the meat and instead stands over
> it and scrapes with his teeth to get meat off then breaks huge
> pieces of bone and tries to eat it at one time.

Messages in this topic (4)
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8c. Re: First week feeding raw
Posted by: "Sandee Lee" rlee@plix.com mariasmom2001
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 1:14 pm ((PDT))

Tracy,

Large meals can cause runny stools...it could just be due to the fact that
you are feeding him one large meal rather than the two he was used to.

It definitely isn't necessary for a dog to either lay down or use feet to
eat! Every dog has their own eating habits.

Sandee & the Dane Gang

From: "Tracy" <thibodeaux_tracy@msn.com>

But, for some reason he has not gotten the concept of laying
down and using his paws to rip at the meat and instead stands over
it and scrapes with his teeth to get meat off then breaks huge
pieces of bone and tries to eat it at one time. I've found myself,
more than once, taking a quarter of a chicken from his mouth and
having to hold it so he will rip it apart. I don't know how to get
him to lay down and use his paws. Any suggestions??

The other problem is that he had runny stools for about 3 days then
solid for 2 days (which I was very pleased to see). But now today
its runny again. We haven't changed anything since begining so I'm
not sure what the problem is or if I should be concerned.

Messages in this topic (4)
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8d. Re: First week feeding raw
Posted by: "Tracy" thibodeaux_tracy@msn.com itstracyt
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 1:20 pm ((PDT))

Thank you for your response. I have not been giving him the
heart/liver/gizzards at all yet. I thought i should wait for that
given this problem. He is his perfect weight right now, we can see
and feel his last two ribs. But, he also seems to be throwing up
yellow bile in the early afternoon. Do you think that could be
caused by not getting any food in the morning? Should I start
splitting his food into 2 portions (breakfast and dinner) as he was
used to before? I've read that when they anticipate food their
digestive juices start to flow causing the upset stomach and then
thowing up bile.
Tracy

--- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Andrea" <poketmouse45@...> wrote:
>
> Some dogs just don't enjoy laying down to eat. Some flat out
refuse
> to touch their paws to their food no matter what. My newf mix
puppy
> always plops down next to his food at chowtime, but he doesn't use
> his feet except to position the food. My GSP mix almost always
eats
> standing up and uses his paws to hold down big food. Neither dog
> seems to think they need their paws for chicken. There have been
> other posts today about dogs eating habits. What we think is
> impossibly big for them to swallow usually isn't a big deal to
them.
>
> Have you been including the heart/liver/gizzard with the whole
> chickens? I would save them for later on down the road if you
> haven't already. These might be the cause of they runny poo. If
you
> have already removed the giblets he's probably getting too much
> food. Back off on the amount a little bit until his digestion
> settles out. At that point, use his physique to tell you if he
needs
> more or less food. If you can't see his last two ribs or you
can't
> easily feel them under his coat you can cut back the food. HTH
>
> Andrea
>
> --- In rawfeeding@yahoogroups.com, "Tracy" <thibodeaux_tracy@>
> wrote:
>
> > for some reason he has not gotten the concept of laying
> > down and using his paws to rip at the meat and instead stands
over
> > it and scrapes with his teeth to get meat off then breaks huge
> > pieces of bone and tries to eat it at one time.
>

Messages in this topic (4)
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9. How can I crush bones but NOT grind them ?
Posted by: "never_connected" never_connected@yahoo.com never_connected
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 12:30 pm ((PDT))

I've found that my dog with teeth problems and 2 of my cats do best
with wings especially but can/will only eat them if they are crushed.
This is way too much work for me as I have to go outside and wack and
hack the thing up on the cement along with getting attacked by flies
and bees unless I do it at night.

Like with the wings, I get to smash and crush the hell out of the
bones but the meat is still left and they still have to tear and chew
it to eat it. Unlike ground which is a complete pile of mush.

So any suggestions how to do this or what to use so it's faster and
easier? And yes, I tried running them over with my car and it didn't
work lol.

Jen

Messages in this topic (1)
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10. there's no denying the evidence! I t really works!!
Posted by: "Marisa" mrsdog_lover@yahoo.com mrsdog_lover
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 12:30 pm ((PDT))

Hi, i'm Marisa, i happily raw feed my 3 dogs since the 2nd of may
2007, up to now,i've had no problems and the dogs are always looking
forward to their daily feed.
The other day i had to go in hospital for 3 days, and since i'm the
one who takes care of my dogs and feed them, my husband found excuses
of not being able to touch and select their daily portion ( as i
freeze the 3 portions in blok and then divide the portions once it
has unfrozen) 60gr for my doberman pinscher, 200gr for my elderly
mongrel, and 260gr for my welsh corgi.
It's no trouble for me touching squeegy slimy offal or rabbits heads
and sheeps heads with their eyes popping out....no way, it doesn't
trouble me at all!! But my hubby had a look of disgust on his face
when i told him what was done and the amount to give each dog.
Any way, to make things breif, i went out and bought just the amount
of canned food for 3 days!!
They gobbled up the canned food in minutes, it was told me, but i
was preoccupied in case they didn't want their natural food once i
got dismissed from the hospital, but i was wrong!!
As soon as i was home, the dogs were so exited to see me that they
jumped up and down, the corgi breathed heavily in my face ( he always
feels hot even in winter)and i noticed he had a heavy breath that i'd
never smelt before, so i picked up the pinscher and noticed the same
thing. Their teeth, in only 3 days, were covered in a soft orange
substance!!! Is it possible in such a short time??'
I soon put things right with giving them their raw food to eat and i
also helped them with an old tooth brusn and just clean water.
Regards MARISA

Messages in this topic (1)
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11a. Re: A good raw-inspired chew?
Posted by: "Kathie Middlemiss" geekgirl717@gmail.com katjermid
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 12:30 pm ((PDT))

Well, I don't know if my pups are just mouthier than others or what.

They've been gnawing the heck out of a pork shoulder for a few meals and
still come in looking for something else to chew.

Anyone use bully sticks?

Kathie

Andrea wrote:
>
> IME, if you give pups big complicated food daily and some good ol' raw
> chewing fun here and there the desire to chew throughout the day goes
> away. I used pork feet for Geiger and Tycho when they started teething
> as extra chewing fun. I've heard that antlers are good if you can get
> them.
>
> Andrea
>
> -
>

Messages in this topic (3)
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12. A report
Posted by: "Carol Dunster" cedunster@centurytel.net carwynst
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 12:31 pm ((PDT))

Well, today I took the plunge with what I had on hand and each of my
Silkys got a small serving of partially frozen raw hamburger. They
were certainly happy with the idea. I've been feeding them raw eggs
and liver as a supplement to their kibble for the last couple of
years, so I figure I can add either one to the ground beef pretty
comfortably.

I'll have to pick up something with bones soon though. Hard to do when
you don't shop much. On the other hand, they haven't been getting
bones and they've survived quite a few years already, a couple of
weeks won't kill them, I'm sure.

I have a question about egg shells. I see that people feed them and
assume they are for calcium? I split one of my duck eggs among the
four of them usually (the duck eggs weigh about 3 oz each), how would
I feed the shells too? I can save shells from when I cook too. Can
someone give me a "heads up" about feeding egg shells? Why? How? How
much? sort of thing?

Thanks!
~ Carol
_____________
Carol Dunster
cedunster@centurytel.net

Messages in this topic (1)
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13a. Re: Is This Natuutal? (MEREDITH)
Posted by: "Roseann" rgabrys@wyan.org gaiabreeze
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 1:20 pm ((PDT))

Meredith Soriano wrote:
>
>
> yes, I'm saying she carries the WHOLE thigh around the house....=]

I stand in the kitchen doorway so that my Great Dane doesn't drag her
food off to the living room. She still tries to get by me but no way is
she munching her raw food on the sofa! I thought about bringing her big
pillow into the kitchen in case she wanted to lay down and spend some
time with her bones (so far only chicken) but I can't imagine how I'd
clean the pillow up afterwards.
Roseann and Mecka the wanderer

Messages in this topic (5)
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